View Full Version : PIA Intercept

12th Nov 2004, 15:35
Rumour has it that a no R/T PIA jet inbound to Manch has been intercepted by two F3s at FL370. How the hell have two F3s managed to get to 370? Are they using Optimax? Apparantly our Pakistani hadn't spoken to ATC for over an hour. When will they learn.

almost professional
12th Nov 2004, 15:48
we had a bet to see how long before this appeared, yes It was a PIA B747, landed about 10 mins ago, one of the F3's is still airborne over egxc!

Lon More
12th Nov 2004, 21:34
Journos slow off the mark; nothing on BBC, ITV or Manch. On-line.
Princess Anne's "Narrow escape from death" must be all the news they need this week

bagpuss lives
12th Nov 2004, 23:37
A PIA flight in "NOT TALKING ON THE R/T" drama!!!!! :)

We get used to it after a while, sadly.

13th Nov 2004, 06:06
There wouldn't be enough squadrons of fighters in this part of the world to intercept all the plonkers that go nocomm in this and adjacent FIR's! Certain companies offend more than others and it would be an unusual day if aircraft responded to your first call whilst under radar control.....2 calls the norm!


13th Nov 2004, 07:17
<<A PIA flight in "NOT TALKING ON THE R/T" drama!!!!!

We get used to it after a while, sadly.>>

Sad to see PIA being ragged.. I never experienced any problems with them in 31 years as a Heathrow controller. On the other hand.. I've certainly experienced a few of our "native" crews wandering merrrily downwind for 30 miles without saying a word!

13th Nov 2004, 09:44
I'd like to associate myself with HD's comments; in my experience (at CC) PIA crews are polite and professional - a pleasure to deal with, in fact.

Now if they'd only taxi a little faster...... :)

bagpuss lives
13th Nov 2004, 10:11
Yes, they are always polite and professional :)

We have had an awful lot of problems with them though with regard to their RT and it failing frequently though (there was a very recent example in the last Ringway Reminder if memory serves me correctly). They're obviously unluckier than most.

13th Nov 2004, 11:14
30 miles no RT is one thing, this guy flew close to 600miles no RT. Anyone found out what his problem was? He certainly wasn't squawking no RT!

16th Nov 2004, 16:32
Has this been discussed already?
You know, the one with the breakdown in communication between the tower & the cockpit..

If not, how come there's no mention of it anywhere?
Would have thought an armed escort back to MAN would have been quite newsworthy?

or have I just broken one or more of the 10 commandments of PPRuNE at the first attempt?


16th Nov 2004, 16:45
A date and source would have helped:confused:

16th Nov 2004, 19:46
Oh, very good Scottie!:ok:

This is the 3rd PIA intercept in under a year that I have heard about. A couple over Russia for incorrect/late flight plan notification and now this.


17th Nov 2004, 08:46
thanks for that, not sure how my post appeared in the original thread but I suspect a higher forum power at work..

So how come these incidents are'nt reported??

bagpuss lives
17th Nov 2004, 15:13
Probably not reported as they're a bit of a non event really, in the grand scheme of things. Standard procedures are followed by all concerned and that's the end of it pretty much.

If the tabloids did latch on to it (and it's only a matter of time until they do of course) then it'd be a typically tabloidian outlook - "SILENT PLANES HURTLE TOWARDS TERROR TARGET!!!!!" and that sort of nonsense.

Of course any RTF is quite a serious incident, especially in this day and age, but it's all dealt with in a calm, professional and wholly un-newsworthy manner :)

Of course, the reason behind any failure is worthy of further, technical investigation.

bagpuss lives
19th Nov 2004, 07:52
As I was saying..... http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/england/manchester/4024063.stm

A snippet :

"A jumbo jet flying to the UK from Pakistan was tracked within 40 miles of Manchester by two RAF fighters during a security alert, the BBC has learned."

19th Nov 2004, 08:30
BBC North West news reporting this morning that they were exclusively revealing this item. One week after it appeared on PPRune!

Aussie Andy
19th Nov 2004, 08:41
BBC report says:The airline said the pilot and crew were unaware that fighter jets had been scrambled and that anything unusual was happening.

It claimed it had been unable to contact air traffic controllers in Manchester but had spoken to operators in London. Is this credible!?


Carl Rawson
19th Nov 2004, 09:31
Sorry if I appear terribly thick here but going back to the first post and the incredulity expressed about the F3 getting to FL370.
I presume that we are talking about the Tornado?
I know that there are many variants of this aircraft but I would have thought that FL400+ would have been achievable for supersonic fighter jets.
I'm not really an anorak and only learned enough on the theory front to get the ATPL's and so would welcome any replies simple or technical.

19th Nov 2004, 09:53
Only 81 people on a 747...sheesh must have been a comfy ride for the pax

19th Nov 2004, 11:17
About the Tornado's

This from the RAF site ...


Stress Relief
19th Nov 2004, 21:45
BBC Northwest news reporting that the aircraft was in danger of being shot down.

I'm just interested to know just what further procedures would have been, if contact had not been forthcoming. Presumably they were descending into the Manchester TMA, and a lot of other traffic.

Just curious, thanks

19th Nov 2004, 21:54
I can't help thinking the BBC have got their knickers in a twist here -unless we are talking about two nearly identical incidents a week apart. Has their been another incident today (Fri 19th) or is this a re-report of last week?

As to the very valid question of what would have happened next, a worthwhile subject for discussion. If it was in the USA the PIA might have been in for trouble

Stress Relief
19th Nov 2004, 22:03
Shot One,

It's last weeks incident as far as I am aware. As Niteflite said, they have picked up on it very late. Must have been a slow day on the news.

19th Nov 2004, 22:14
Graham K

The media it seems only have half a story - as usual. I believe that the 81 pax referred to were only those offloading in MAN. The A/C was apparently full.

bagpuss lives
19th Nov 2004, 23:24
In answer to your question any possibly conflicting traffic
(nay any traffic at all) would have been well and truly out of the way by that stage.

Beyond that the answer lies with people with rather more supposed power than you or I.

20th Nov 2004, 06:45
I believe that the 81 pax referred to were only those offloading in MAN. The A/C was apparently full.

PK709 is LHE-MAN-LHE, so there would of been no transit pax onboard all pax would get off at MAN, don't know actual figures.

Capts report stated that contact was lost with Maastrict who failed to transfer them to London, but was in contact with London throughout and was unaware of any problem. Tech log write up was VHF 1 intermittant transmit/receive! :D

20th Nov 2004, 15:54
A Tech Log write up from a PIA flight crew?

Now THAT I do not believe!!:E

Lima Juliet
20th Nov 2004, 17:45
FL370 no problem in F3 (I have over 1700hrs in them) - knew of someone who took one to 67K once (idiot without a pressure suit!).

Speeds and heights that most airliners fly at no probs at all - could even chase down Concorde (but would run out of fuel first probably!).

It would be nice if the MOD charged the airlines for all the grief that NORDO airliners cause us in the military (I'll now duck for cover for the tirade of abuse ;-).


20th Nov 2004, 19:16
Leon, I think you should actually thank those NORDO guys as it's the only way you guys can log a few hours with the budgets strained as they are :-)..

P.S. Wouldn't mind trading the 'Bus for the F3 for a day!

Carl Rawson
21st Nov 2004, 13:33
Thanks Leon Jabachjabicz :ok:
So I wasn't being thick after all.... and no need for Optimax either :E

Lima Juliet
22nd Nov 2004, 22:35

I'll swap my job on the 'fin' for a job on the 'bus' next year - OK?

I hope the grass isn't greener on the other side!!!