New NATS Contracts?

[Spoonbill]

Now that the AG have control, does anyone on the inside know if NATS are being pressured to actively pursue more contracts with airfields to provide atc services?

I know of a couple of airfields whose owners currently provide their own atc, but are in the process of "contracting out" these services.
One of these airfields obtained a quote from NATS pre - privatisation, not suprisingly it was considerably more than the then employers costs. However, now that things are changing, I wondered if the AG would change the tendering policy to become more competetive.
I know that at both airfields the owners are seeking an atc provider who can guarantee continuity of staffing, due to forthcoming retirements and the difficulty in recruiting fully qualified and experienced staff. In both instances NATS would be the preferred bidder as the owners consider that they are the only contractor who can guarantee to do so.
I know that other organisations will argue the toss on that, but realistaclly, that is the case.
So what's the inside knowledge please? :D

[Bright-Ling]

Spoon,

We'd be the last to know believe me!

Let us know when yuo have some more info!!!!!

[bagpuss lives]

On the flip side to this is the situation at Manch whereby NATS are - so we're told on the grapevine - "dangerously close" to losing the Aerodrome ATC contract to MAPLC.

I for one can't see how it could be done and how MAPLC could look elsewhere and get the same quality of service as they do now.

I would say that though :p

It will be most interesting to see how much of a fight our new owners put in to keeping it NATS all the way at EGCC - bearing in mind what they've said about growth et al.

Words are very cheap aren't they?

[Legs11]

Spoonbill, just how "inside" is your information.

On the Manchester line, surely quite a few of the present incumbants would opt to stay. This would be what Man PLC are hoping for.

???

[spekesoftly]

But would sufficient numbers opt to stay? Remember Glasgow ? I seem to recall that the BAA tried this at PF some years ago, but despite financial inducements and guarantees, without success. On that occassion, it appeared that "the devil you know" syndrome applied.

[ 21 September 2001: Message edited by: spekesoftly ]

[Gisajob]

Hello again Spoonbill,

You mention continuity of supply for ATCOs and then state that NATS are the only contractor who can guarantee to do so. I’d like to challenge that statement.

Safeskys has an agreement with one of the two private ATC Training Colleges to manage ATC contracts with planned training over the long term to plan for retirement and attrition. We have locked in training budgets and agreed courses. So NATS has no monopoly over planned continuity of staff.

Additionally you state ‘NATS can ‘guarantee continuity of staffing’. NATS can no more guarantee continuity of staffing than other contractors. We are all going to have to plan our future training around the retirement bulge and difficult manning conditions. At least we can address a shortage by taking a candidate/ATCO/ATCA from the marketplace and offering them an APC or APR course within weeks not the years it takes NATS to select, train and then train on the job. In fact NATS have a superb early retirement plan for ATCOs which is giving them a much greater headache than ‘other contractors’.

So please don’t make inaccurate statements to support your views.

[Spiney Norman]

Oh dear! We seem to have been here before on another string long ago and far away. Gisajob. If you actually read what Spoonbill goes on to say it is this. 'I know other organisations will argue the toss on that but realistically this is the case'. In his post he is correct because NATS have the largest U.K. employee pool all employed on mobile grade contracts. Simply put, this means they can be posted to cover staff shortage at other airfield units if required.(I'll leave the ATCC shortages out of this as they are not relevant to the original post). I see that you have managed to get the obligatory advertisement for your organisation into the post but I'm not going to get into that because it's off topic so...Spoonbill, there are no rumours circulating at the moment about new NATS contract tenders as far as I'm aware, but NATS is quite naturally in a state of flux at the moment with management changes, policy changes, and of course, the international situation. However, when the AG proposals for their vision of the future of NATS was floating around they clearly voiced an intention to persue further business. Re the situation at Manchester. There are very very few who want to work for MA plc. But then MAplc are in the difficult situation of either trying to do it themselves or accept the NATS tender as there are no other contractors large enough these days to take the job although I'm sure Gisajob would disagree with that!
Spiney

[Warwick Hunt]

Top of the list were EGHH and EGGD prior to PPP. Simply to make money out of the EGFF and EGHI contracts. Would combine and consolidate the radar and leave tower only units. Bristol radar from Cardiff and Bournemouth radar from Southampton.

[Spoonbill]

Gisajob, interesting points you raise Richard.
1 - How many contracts do you have with airfields in the UK to run their complete atc contracts at the moment?
2 - Other than supplying individual atcos on an ad - hoc basis to airfields, have you ever supplied a major UK airport with a complete atc team?

I have no doubt that you you are prepared to be judged by your results, so we'll see what the outcome of your forthcoming bids at Wattisham et al are shall we?
Have a nice day. :D :D :D

[Morelands]

Gizajob,

Following up Spoonbill's very valid questions, since you persist in improperly using this bulletin board to advertise your Safeskys business, would you now like to tell us more about it by posting a reply to my earlier post on a different thread. To date your silence has been most eloquent. :confused:

[Bright-Ling]

Gisajob - perhaps you should rename yourself as Giveitarest.

I have just looked at all of your previous posts.

Of the 7 almost identical posts, 5 give yr fantastic advice and your website url and phone number - two posts on the same page!

When I questioned this before I was told that Mr Safeskys here (Richard?) helps sponsor the site so they'd let it go.

WHERE THEN, is his ad on here?!

He says that sending your CV to every SATCO smacks of desperation!

Unlike continually advertising yr site here?

TAKE ANYTHING HE SAYS WITH A LARGE PINCH OF SALT ME THINKS.

To the un-initiated here: Read every other post carefully, they are the ones talking sense.

[Virge Hill]

Gisajob,
I don't think you live in the real world but some fantasy world created by a well known GM in NATS who then sold it to you as a pup.
My favourite quote of yours was to a friend of mine "I think I've got East Midlands in the bag and you could be the next SATCO"
Says it all really............

[terrain safe]

I worked with Gisajob many years ago and I thought that he talked a load of "twaddle" then. Nice to see that my instincts were correct all those years ago.......... :D

[Legs11]

Oh dear, we appear to have got off track slightly....valid as all these anti Richie babe posts may be...are there any more contracts coming up - Spoonbill, wadya know?

[Spoonbill]

Unfortunately I know very little, a common trait amongst us atcos :D
Prior to TAG/NATS partnership, both airfields would have ruled out NATS on cost grounds, and frankly I'm not sure that NATS would have been seriously interested.
However, post privatisation, my colleagues at the two airfields have been given the distinct impression by their respective management that NATS are putting in a bid which will be very seriously considered. Obviously this does not rule out SERCO, who's terms and conditions, (I am told), have improved considerably, and as long as they get preservation of current benefits and are paid the same or more, the atco's at the sharp end don't seem to be particularly bothered who pays the wages.
(The airfields concerned are both south of Newcastle, east of EGNX, and north of EGSS,
so that'll be.......... :confused: :p ).

[1261]

Does anyone know if there's any strength in the rumour that the MA PLC airports (CC, NX, NJ, HH) are to start doing their own ATC in the near future?

[ 28 September 2001: Message edited by: 1261 ]

[Legs11]

1261 - the only MA PLC airport that doesn't already do it's own ATC is MAN. They might even set up their own ATC provider group eh? When did Teeside join the group?

[ 28 September 2001: Message edited by: Legs11 ]

[1261]

You've spotted my deliberate mistake [since edited to show Humberside, not Teeside]!!

That was what I'd heard rumours of; that MA PLC was intending to set up as a provider, initially for its own airports, but later - who knows....

[Legs11]

cv's in the post :cool:

[Bagheera]

The one and only thing that I am pleased about TAG taking over ATC is that we will at last have some proper business brains to take over this farce.
Airport authorities can play us like a fiddle at the moment claiming groups like safeskys and/or Serco have the relevant expertise/manpower to take over our job. Our old management used to get into cap doffing mode and fall in line.
My brothers department (working in a similar environment and knowing they were the only ones who could do the job), had a far more enlightened attitude.
Prepare two bids, one for what They want...One for what YOU want.
Sit in the tendering office until 5 minutes before the bid closes and if the competition doesnt turn up....Stick in bid number two.
I agree that ATC has to become more customer aware....But at the expense of its own business?????

[macduff]

Methinks you have some knowledge of the last round of contract bidding for edinburgh!

[ 02 October 2001: Message edited by: macduff ]

[Great Unmanaged]

You could always read the NATS strategy thingy on the intranet. NATS strategy is to build a sound UK base of operations (I would really hope that that included CC)and then gain at least two lucrative overseas contracts by the end of 2002.

The WTC attacks may well have modified their strategy for them as 44% of our business comes from the ocean! :D