Bacx And Emb170

[Dash-7 lover]

Picture this....Emb-170 @ MAN . Inquisitive BACX pilot stroll on board and an Embraer rep lets slip that BACX 170's will only have 2 FMS screens rather than the standard 3......oops shouldn't have said that!!

[mutt]

Thought that the E170 came with only 2 FMS screens?

Either way its a customer specified item, if they want more they can get them.


Mutt.

[BOTFOJ]

a.net as usual (www.airliners.net/open.file/696151/M/)

[145 JOCKEY]

Rumour has it form Cabin Crew Union meeting,that it is a done deal.
ERJ_170 all ex.ALITALIA !!!!!!!!!!!!
They supposedly don<t want them as part of their group reorganization<but had to take them in the first place as the contracts with Embraer were already signed.



:D :ok:

[FlyboyUK]

Interesting.....I also heard this one in MAN a couple of weeks agao. I guess we shall have to wait and see. :sad:

[FE Hoppy]

They all have 2 mcdu. The picture in the link is of a prototype but its pretty close to what the line aircraft look like. Would be nice to teach some brits for a change......

[Daza]

Lets hope that BACX buy the whole series of EMB aircraft and ditch the unreliable ARJs. Will we see the EMB170s at bhx,gla,edi,lcy etc??
Thanks
Daza

[Frankfurt_Cowboy]

They could fly them BHX-LAX!!

[Daza]

They will not be flying anything from Leeds,teesside,Humberside or Carslile will they????
Daza

[Scottie Dog]

Is the 170 cleared for LCY operations?

No idea personally, so be interested in any feedback.

[we_never_change]

Scottie dog,
No, the only Embraer Jet product so far cleared for LCY ops is the ERJ135 (or the Legacy business jet variant) as long as it is fitted with the steep approach kit.

WNC

[Lite]

I remember that when Swiss Airlines made their order for the ERJ-170/190 family of aircraft, one of the specifics of the deal was that they should be able to operate into LCY, as they were meant to replace Swiss' ARJ family of aircraft. I don't know whether this is still the case?

Is it now a confirmed deal that CitiExpress are to take in the ERJ-170? How many? Will some of these be based ex-BHX?

Just a related topic, can someone tell me the status of CitiExpress' flights from BHX to Spain. Maersk UK & British Airways Birmingham, used to operated flights for BA to MAD/BCN/AGP. Are these routes still operational, and if not will they be introduced again? Much need and demand for a full service airline to Spain from the Midlands. Would be very popular!

[we_never_change]

BACX currently fly to BCN & MAD daily from BHX with a 146.

I believe AGP was just a summer (Saturday) only service but not sure if this has happened since the retirement of the B737-200/500 from BA/Maersk service at BHX

WNC

[MOR]

Lite is correct, EMB also tried to sell the 170 (still are) to flybe on that basis. Of course flybe have all but abandoned LCY now.

Flybe were promised that the aircraft would be LCY-capable, but it involved fitting a big airbrake and I'm not sure that they ever followed it through - it would be a very expensive mod for only a few airframes.

[Lite]

Slightly off topic, but I'm sure that the EMB170 would be an excellent choice of aircraft for flybe, because it does have the capacity of its current favourite aircraft, the Dash 8-400, but with the added range that they desire from the 146, and I believe they have capability for some of the proposed 733 routes as well. Added benefit of being able to expand to the 175/190/195.

I think the 170 is a good choice for British Airways CitiExpress as well. I have been speaking to friends who work at United, and they are very happy with the aircraft. It operates a number of longer (2/3 hour) segments, and offers comfort that rivals some of their mainline jets. Are we going to see BA expansion from BHX? Could someone tell me the current list of destinations (incl. codeshare?). Does anyone think they will expand to Spain?

[Dash-7 lover]

LITE.

BACX winter scheduled destinations ex BHX.....ABZ/FRA/MXP/EDI/GLA/STR/HAM/VIE/LYS/CDG/DUS/MAD
FCO/BCN


Winter charter work

INN/BGY/CMF/SZG/TLS/TRN

Hope this helps

[we_never_change]

I do understand that BA would like to expand (possibly taking on some of the ex DUO routes) but currently have a lack of aircraft.

They have been leasing in a Titan or/and Flightline BAe146 on some occasions recently to cover some routes from Brum.

WNC

[Psiontech]

I heard today that a EMB 170 ex Alitalia is being painted up in BA colours, don't know where.

Don't know who going to fly them either no body knows about any training for this aircraft, anybody know anything else?

[Ace Rimmer]

LCY capability was part of the oridginal Xair/SWISS deal but EMB delayed work on the LCY mod with the deferment of the SWISS order.

The ventral airbrake question is yet to be decided or so I've been told. When I flew the puppy at SJC last November we carried out a few steep approaches and in the flap 6 configuration it was reasonably speed stable. The snag is that if it's decided that an air brake is needed there have to be some changes to the FBW architecture to allow rapid pitch trim compensation.

Ref BACX certainly BRAL were on the verge of ordering before the merger...I seem to recall El Tel talking about a requirement for 25 in the initial 170 order with options for either 170s or 190s.

[Psiontech]

A BACX training captain has been flying a EMB170 from BHX for a couple of weeks now, all the training manuals and the course notes are written up and ready for BACX.

[HZ123]

So is he going to do flights single handed. If the 170 is cheap then BA may well consider leasing them. But can the a/c compete with L/C's, does it have the range & the flexibility to offer two classes. Is it robust enough for 10 years operation and if they are so good how come the only one I have seen was a LOT at LHR. That said nice looking 'little' a/c.

[FE Hoppy]

if they are so good how come the only one I have seen was a LOT at LHR

This years production has almost all gone to US Airways and Chataqua.

In Europe SMX have 6 LOT 4 with more coming and Cirrus 1.

[Ace Rimmer]

As Hoppy says virtually all the 04 production is or was US bound.
Chatauqua for example will have 26 by mid 05 (and incidentally offer a three class layout).

Expect a similar thing to happen when the 190 enters service end 05 or early 06, 145 of the current firm orders are heading for Jet Blue and Air Canada. That said, Finnair should start getting their 170s in the 05 run BACX may get theirs during that time frame too if the Mid-Atlantic (US Airways Express) stay in abeyance while the parent is in Ch11. Then again if LCY is not an issue for BACX then they may end up being the launch customer for the 175

Make no mistake about it... the 170/5 and more so 190/5 are going to prove to be very significant aircraft...It may also be that the reason behind the rewinging and horizontal stab size increase is that the boys from Brazil may have a 195 stretch up their sleeves...it would take the family to the 120-130 seat mark.

Bet Bomb wishes they never cancelled BRJ-X (yeah I know there's the C series but that's away down the pike and isn't even launched yet). I also hear tell that some Southwest folks have been in SJC having chats with the Jungle jets gang (now THAT would be a turn up for the books).

[Mr A Tis]

Hasn't BACX missed the boat here anyway?
The C class seating on the RJ or 145 is a waste of money, might as well travel Y class.
If you're going to do that, then why pay 2 - 3 x the price of a LCC out of MAN? Not only that, the LCCs are flying aircraft which you can stand up in & have the novelty of being able to place cabin bags larger than tissue boxes in the overhead lockers.
It's very much looking like Air Berlin, Baby, & Jet 2 have the place( MAN) sewn up whilst Chippy Fryer are still wondering what to do, where to fly to, & what with. If they do have any exciting new direction then they better tell us soon. Hardly ever fly with BACX these days as SLF as the alternatives are so much better.
A great shame, the old BA S1-11s & B737s were always full even though they were vastly over-priced.

[San Expiry]

If CX don't do something and fast it is going to be history by this time next year. Mangament think a new type eg the E170 will save the day but the problems are far more deep rooted than that - trying to run a Mainline product in the regional setting is but one. BA have got themselves into an almighty mess with CX - something they should never have got into and I bet the idiot who thought it was a good idea at the time (possibly the buffoon currently in charge) is still pulling in his £100k pa.

[HZ123]

Well said S E unless BA make clear exactly what product BACX is to be and how it is to achieve these goals then the future may be in doubt. Of interest to me is 'Are the corporate goals for BACX' the same as those for BA. In addition to the airline BACX ; BA have to sort why MAN plus the Scottish main stations staff in many cases are on pay rates equaling those in LHR/LGW, why has BACX staff not taken over theses roles yet. For next year at LHR there is already well founded info to suggeat a number of new routes will be served by GB and BMED, in their respective areas these franchisse will get first pickings.

[San Expiry]

HZ123

In answer and no particular order. One of the major problems has been that since day 1 there has never been a clear 'mission statement' so nobody, and I think it would be true to include the management, had any real idea what they were there for. Of course, with hindsight, it is clear that the prime motive for creating Citiexpress was to meet an internal BA political agenda to dismantle the BAR operations in Manchester and Birmingham and group it all under the CX umberella. The fallout for all those affected by these powergames has been unimaginable but at last the birds are coming home to roost in what was regarded as the impregnable Manchester.

Of course, it has only worked in part. The cheaper crews and aircraft have been put in place but the overheads, as you rightly point out, have not and the reason for that is that while the original Brymon/BRAL staff have been groud into the dirt by the company, they wouldn't dare upset the Mainline unions by kicking their very expensive derrieres out the door.

Expect more calamatous news in a few weeks. This company have an exemplary record in retreat and another one is coming soon.:yuk:

[HOVIS]

HZ123..BA have to sort why MAN plus the Scottish main stations staff in many cases are on pay rates equaling those in LHR/LGW

I can only speak for the ex BA mainline MAN/BHX engineers here, but the BACX maintenance staff are definately NOT on the same pay rates as LHR/LGW.
The BA management pulled every stunt in the book to make sure the solid BA engineers were kicked out the door and would only let them apply for BACX jobs after being threatened with legal action! :mad:

And then on much lower pay.

[Hand Solo]

BA have to sort why MAN plus the Scottish main stations staff in many cases are on pay rates equaling those in LHR/LGW, why has BACX staff not taken over theses roles yet

For the same reason they can't sack all the overpaid, bone idle ramp staff at LHR and replace them with cheaper and more productive staff from the now defunct Swissport.

For next year at LHR there is already well founded info to suggeat a number of new routes will be served by GB and BMED, in their respective areas these franchisse will get first pickings

GB and BMed can secure new LHR slots that BA cannot as they are classed as new entrants at LHR. If they can get their own slots they can fly their own routes. If they want to fly them in BA colours as a franchise they need BAs approval first, and BA will not approve any new franchise route where there is a possibility of BA operating it in-house profitably. Note GB were recently denied a service to Dubrovnik but BA started one. The reason GB are opening a MAN base is because their expansion at LHR and LGW is severely restricted by BA. To suggest the franchises do or will get first pickings is completely incorrect, as is your 'well founded' info.

[HZ123]

HS point taken about the ramp staff but once again this leads back to lack of management / sanctions and any discipline. Of futher comcern to BA , no company is large enough or robust enough to take on BA at LHR. However it has to be asked why outsourcing has not taken place at LGW and the regions.

[Lite]

Just a little bit off topic, but to operate the before mentioned routes from BHX, how many based aircraft does BACX have here? Also is there much difference in routes between summer and winter?

[marlowe]

This is all just rumour ,this emb 170 story has been doing the rounds for weeks now it was supposed to have been at BHX where this meeting took place not MAN, also the EMB 170 in BA colours is supposed to be in the hanger area at BHX it might as well be in area 51 cos it aint there!! also how come nobody can actually put a name to the trainer who is supposed to be flying it BACX is not that big someone should know.

[Dash-7 lover]

Lite.

BHX has 7 EMB145's and 8 RJ100's although not all a/c overnight there.....


Marlowe - No company hangar at Brum - Flybe's hangar is used when necc, although no-one knows about the ex- Maersk/Duo hangar yet.....

[marlowe]

Dash7 lover
my point exactly I know there are no hanger facilities at BHX but still heard the rumour anyway!!!Have spoken to many flight crew and nobody can actually name the training capt who is moonlighting as an EMB170 trainee, BACX not that big a company surely a name would crop up??

[Tandemrotor]

This thread is hilarious!

Very well done to Lite for reviving it, if only to show what utter garbage masquerades as fact here in the 'Twilight Zone!'

Keep it up.

[FE Hoppy]

There are currently no British pilots with 170 type ratings. FACT!!

[ML Handler]

Does anybody know when the BA business plan for 05/06 will be released, I think it is some time this month. I am about to start an BACX TR very soon but have not been told which base yet as I understand the plan may influence the decision.

[Pin Head]

1 st March I think

[Paper Lad]

Staff group meetings on 2nd Mar for BACX. Mainline on the 1st

[FlyboyUK]

Heard several rumours in recent days that the A318 is now being looked at. Anyone else heard this?

[exfiller]

Yes and also the A380. I heard one of the trainers is down in Toulouse at the moment although I think that it's more realistic that we'll actually get the A379 (slightly shortened version of the A380). Aparently the stand markings on Bristols' western apron extension will soon be repainted to accomodate it, and the first route is the shortly to be announced Bristol - Southampton shuttle.

[EMB170]

Airbus for BACX, i don't think so! our former leader told us that the RJ's would be to big for us and our routes, so i don't know what changed since then.

us gouchos flying airbusses,no way, BA and BA-BALPA ,would never let that happen.

Don't forget dozens of BACX pilots have recently been told, that they are not good enough to fly shiny busses!!!

the only thing that could happen is, that they replace the RJ's with airbuses to allow mainline crew to bid for EDI and BHX.

i seem to remember that happened before, i think they called themself BAR and let's be honest they don't trust TdLF, flying 777, or 747's, so maybe the lined him up for running BAR
in BHX,impossible,only if pigs can fly!

Yes bigs can fly , i can see them in Brum every day, especially if maastricht tell's me to slow down over koksi!

still don't know what i'm on about? let me spell it out for you

RJ = Sky pig, i know that's harsh on pigs!

I'll be off to have my bacon roll now.

[A Nonny Mouse]

A very smart looking 170 has been getting in our way, doing circuits for the last week at LCY.

So far I haven't observed any dorsal brakes being deployed on final, but can't rule it out as the weather (cloud) has been pretty ****e.

Also, he started up the other day for his usual off peak circuits, but when we changed runway to 10, quickly closed back down and declined any flying.

Could prove interesting, only being able to use one end............................

[bmibaby.com]

BA recently changed its order from Airbus 318 aircraft to larger aircraft for their mainline operations, apparently due to the economics of the 318. Not sure how it's an uneconomical aircraft, as Frontier, despite being a LCC seem very happy with their aircraft.

I can understand the Embraer 170 being a natural progression for BACX, and could lead to the 190 or 195. I believe that the 195, or it might be the 175, still needs a new launch customer following swiss pulling out of the deal. The 195 would be a great replacement for busier BACX routes as they can seat around 110 in a two-class configuration.

[Ed666]

About 10 days ago there was a Emb170 doing a few days of circuits and training flights into LCY.

No probs with ground ops, not sure about landing & approach though.

[Tandemrotor]

bmi

I may be wrong, but I seem to recall that the A318s had been destined for BA's regional operation. An operation which no longer exists. (At least not in it's previous form!) I am not too surprised if it is indeed uneconomic to operate such a small aircraft from LHR.

I would think BACX would be expected to enjoy a period of solid profit, before receiving the large investment required for a new fleet of aircraft. Wouldn't you?

[HOVIS]

If anyone's getting 318s it'll be GB Air!! They will be takng most of the bigger routes from BAs regional ops.

I would think BACX would be expected to enjoy a period of solid profit, before receiving the large investment required for a new fleet of aircraft. Wouldn't you?

This is BA we're talking about here. A logical statement like the one above has no place in thread like this.:\

[skiddyiom]

BACX might well need to show some solid profit before any new investment is forthcoming, but it would appear that the company can afford to buy a hot air balloon to go swanning off around the world, taking part in balloon races and such.

This is something the bulk of the company will never see, will have no involvement in and will be expected to support.

Meanwhile the company continues to penny pinch and generally make a hash of itself. No new aircraft on the horizon to replace the Dash 8 (which may, or may not be going next year) and little clear idea of the direction it is heading in.

EMB-170? Not a chance - hot air balloons are cheaper!!

skiddy