Australian ATC testing - advice

[TJS]

I have heard back from Air Services regarding applying for a position as an ATC. Testing is in a few weeks, my question is can anyone give me some ideas as to what to expect in these aptitude tests? Or any other info that you think may help.

Thanks

[willadvise]

The testing process is a series of the standard sort of IQ tests.
eg
-what is the next number/shape/letter in this sequence.
-tests on your abilitiy to do basic mathematics. Learn your times table well. Especially your six times table. Problems includes time/speed/distance problems.
-tests on your spatial reasoning ability. ie they will give you a picutre of a cube with various shaded faces then the options of some flatenned out cubes. You have to decide which of the flattened cubes can make the cube.
- Tests to tell your left from right (a lot harder than what it sounds)
- A test on your ability to follow a set of logic instructions. THis was done from a tape. A person will read an instruction like "If the number in box 6 is more than 6+13 then write the letter J in the the smallest trinagle other wise cross out all numbers more than 6-3 in rectanlge 2" You are not allowed to write anything until the instruction has been completed. A series of these are read getting harder.
I cant remember all the tests. But most of them you cant really prepare for. Except for the mathematics. I do suggest practising you basic maths skills. Make sure you read and re-read all the infomation they sent you.
At the end there will be a pschological multiple choice test. People will argue that you can manipulate these sorts of tests. I can tell you what they are looking for though. They say that you should answer these questions as honestly as possible as they can tell people who are trying to manipulate the results. (The will ask the same question several times to catch you). With this in mind I present the following with a a disclaimer. They want people who are mathematical, quick thinking, able to work indepedantly but also part of a team. Because of the nature of the job they dont want stress-bugs but they also don't want totally "she'll be right mate" people. They want people who can think for themselves but in the end you work under a strict set of rules so you can't be a re-inventing the wheel sort of person. The questions about being on indoors/sendantry or outdoors/active person were ignore in previous selection but of course I cannot say that they will be this time.

EMail me if anymore question

[TJS]

Willadvise,

Can you check your email.

Thankyou

[fart]

It sounds so complicated - are they recruiting astronauts or traffickers?

I guess you have to be a Mensa(IQ of 150) member just to apply! Are they getting the right type of people to do the job though? I cant imagine this nerd sitting there working out the chance of 2 aircraft hitting to the nearest 1000 th of a decimal and only then making a decision!
Anyway, if it works for you - great, but I think a lot of good potential gets wasted that way. How many, as a percentage, controllers end up working at the bussier units (Sydney etc) compared to those who will be pushing light VFR traffic all there lifes in the Outback?
Did the guy who designed these tests go through the same rigorous selection process when he first tried out or is he trying to fail 99,9% of the Ozzie population. For those of you who have made it through and are employed in the system, I take my hat off! You must be bloody good mate!
I have licences for 5 countries and have worked with 100's of very good controllers, but I have never met a rocket scientist on the job! Do they allow only B747 captains and fighter jocks to fly in Ozzie airspace after they have passed those tests applicable to ATC? I would sure like to see how pilots would fare with the ATC test.
I guess I will never be controlling in Oz, would I?
Bye and good luck to those who sit the test!

[karrank]

Looking around the room, nope, no bulging brains in sight...

The tests don't produce rocket scientists, just help find people most likely to be easily (read cheaply) trained for the job. At least that is the theory.

The only fiddling I attempted was to spend months doing "The Mensa puzzle book" and similar so I wouldn't be intimidated on the day, and approached the tests with a positive outlook.

A bloke I know answered all the psych questions (300 of 'em) "don't know", figuring they couldn't mark him wrong. They did.

The bullsh@t doesn't stop during the course either. Some people bristled at it all, I just thought of the whole process as a progression of meaningless "hoops" I had to jump through in style to ultimately do the job I wanted.

Whether I was to be eliminated at any stage was a possibility I refused to take seriously. When it has happened to others, they may be indignent at the slur on their character and career dismemberment, but you can usually see why it happened.

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"Station calling Centre, grow a head..."

[tooradinflyer]

hey...
i've got my tests on next thursday, they started today (15th) - has anyone sat them yet? anyone got any info on them? is it all skills/aptitude/psych or do we need to know about airservices, etc...???

another question - what sort of attire should we be wearing to the tests?

thanx in advance for any info...
rob

[ATR Driver.]

I am interested to know (summation) the qualifications of the other hopefulls? Aviation background, or not at all?

I have received my test date, and look forward to being put through the hoops.

I am middle-aged, ex-airline captain,
......and you?

Thanks in advance.

[Deadly]

Tooradinflyer,
I think that you should wear moccasins, stubbies and any old tee shirt, that ought to impressive any respective employer. Oh and a bit of lippy might be nice.!!

[TJS]

ATR Driver

My test date is also soon. My qualifications are a VCE, CASA CPL (ATPL thoery)& Aviation degree.

Whats everyone else got?

Anyone done the tests yet? Any tips?

[hangacat]

Heard that the first days testing in Melbourne was a discrace, staff not knowing how to run tests, computer failures, candidates not properly informed that tests had commenced, all very messy and unprofessional. What recourse do these poor blighter's have if they are failed because of the incompetence of the personnel running the selection testing?
Hangacat

[375ml]

Hangacat, welcome to Airservices!!! I thought they were the written tests you are doing this time around... what computer failures could you be talking about?

If this is abinitio recruitment, aviation quals aren't important (but very handy when training).

The best tip: Speed & Accuracy. Don't be put off if you are only 1/2 way through a test when the time is up... so long as you are accurate and correct that is important. I vaguely remember that marks are deducted for incorrect answers in most tests.

Dress code: casual. ATC is casual dress, except in Brisbane Centre ;) Seriously though it's only in the interview (if you get that far) that appearance may be a factor.

Most imporantly, a relaxed - not complacent - attitude as you go in. Ignore the others.

[turnleftnow]

Some of the best controllers don't have an aviation background. They just have the ability to do several things at once and prioritise them correctly while keeping the traffic picture. Sure it may help in some situations to be a pilot but the closest most ATC's have got to flying is in the jumpseat or seat 12E reading the SMH!

[RTB RFN]

Yes but some of the best controllers do have an aviation background. I have found that no matter what your previous aviation speciality there will often be a time when that knowledge will assist a job well done. As for rocket scientists - I've trained a few in my time and have found that a considered well researched decision is often not the order for the day. What do you need to actually do the job - advanced kindy mathematics, common bloody sense and the ability to formulate and action a decision without delay. Unfortunately I suspect the selection is trick cyclist driven with the obvious inherent pear shaped results. Good luck it's a great job with some great and memorable people to work with along with enormous frustrations and the obligatory dikhead.

[TJS]

Stories of computers "locking" up and "looping" are correct. I went in last Thursday and saw it all - thankfully my computer was OK. The day started at 08.30am and was meant to finish at 4.30pm. However most people finished at around 5.30 - 6.00pm. Some even went to 7.30pm cause their computers had to be restarted (due to the above) and hence start again on what ever test they were up to.

There are 10 positions for the training course starting next January. 100 people are being tested for these spots.

[LoLevel]

From memory, an aviation background was not of any real value at the initial testing stage, nor the second stage of computer battery tests (2 days worth back then...yuck!!). But if selected it will be of use during training and if successful definitely useful when line training for a rating. You will do some very similar subjects, Met, Performance,Principles of Flights etc. The difference in aircraft performance is very valuable background. But it doesnt make you a controller.
Probably one of the most important skills IMHO is how you work with others in your team, prioritising of your tasks when busy, and making a decision and not being swayed by others if you think it is the right one considering all the facts which they may not be aware of. You will work with some strong personalities with a lot of experience and it can be easy to be intimidated, but it is yours on the line every day, not theirs.

For those of you who are successful, read carefully your letter of appointment. In the excitement and relief of making the grade, some simple lines in your letter of appointment make make things difficulkt with your employer in the future. I know of some contollers who by taking a start date 2 weeks later out of two options are now $20000 a year worse off. Your employer is going through some massive cost reductions at the moment, and new recruits are a soft target. If you want to know more before you join contact the Civil Air office (the ATC union) (I am not a union official BTW, just someone who has seen what is going on.) http://www.civilair.asn.au/
Federal Office Telephone +61 (0)3 9646 9277
Freecall 1800 359 007
Facsimile +61 (0)3 9646 6799
Postal P.O. Box 394
Port Melbourne, Vic, 3207
AUSTRALIA
Location Ground Floor, 214 Graham St
Port Melbourne VIC


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[email protected]
"The views expressed here are a personal rant and rave and in no way reflect the views of my employer/s, not even by coincidence I should imagine "

[ATR Driver.]

TJS,

Firstly, I hope you did well.

Secondly, without giving too much away, is there any more light you can shed on the process? Any pitfalls or anything?

Much appreciated,
ATR.

[TJS]

ATR driver,

The second reply to this thread (by willadvise) was pretty accurate.

The first section was 60 speed/distance/time questions that started very easy and got harder. Most people averaged around 30 questions finished within the time limit. This was mainly due to programed interuptions from a pre recorded voice, ie see how you can do two things at once.

Next was recognising shapes and colours. Sounds easy, but not quite. Bit hard to explain but you had to be very quick, and I mean quick. By the time you had tried to match a shape with that displayed, you had already missed the next question. However, as you practised, it did get easier.

Next was a test to see how well you could judge an object even if you couldn't see it. A ball would move from the left of screen (at a constant speed), then it would be covered up by two patterns. Not only did you have to stop the ball before it hit the wall on the other side (remembering you onle see the ball at the start), you have to classify the patters as either the same or different. You had to try and go through as many patterns you could as well as keeping in mind that the ball would be getting closer to the wall.

Next was like an ATC sim game. This part went for about three hours. You got four prac. goes and the fifth was your recorded score. Again, it starts easy on the first, and the hardest was the final one. There are two airports on the screen, and four exit points from the control zone. The aircraft depicted either wanted to land at one of the airports or exit the zone (a,b,c,d). Each aircraft had this marked next to their ID. If an aircraft was to land, they had to be at the right height (level 1), and the right speed (Slow). If they wanted to exit, they had to be going fast and at the highest level (4). You lost points for not complying with landing speeds/heights, exit speeds/heights, could not get two aircraft within 5 miles, could not overfly an airport, lost points for landing an aircraft at the wrong airport/wrong direction, wrong exit area. This was actually fun. Bearing in mind the last test contained up to 40 aircraft within your airpsace. You have control of heading, speed, altitude by a mouse and clicking on what you wanted the aircraft to do.

Finally, there was a 100 question psych test. Standard type for this type of employment.

Its a bloody long day, and at the end you've had enough!

Has anybody heard anything yet?

Good luck to all.

[tooradinflyer]

had my testing today, with a bunch of raaf'ies and two other guys, one of whom didn't return after lunch - the first three tests are rather tough!!!

ATR, my background is a PPL doing Eng/Aviation at uni...

the psych test at the end was pretty tricky to do, hard to know what to put down in some cases (even instinct didn't tell me)... the numerical test at the start was a little tricky, as was the interruption test with it... the shapes test was okay, excvept when it came to the numbers then tough! the pattterns / ball not bad, though with them all its hard to know what standard they expect. in the ATC sim i had 2 sep errors and 1 boundary sep error but that was it, again don't know what the expected (but the majority of others had about same errors even thr raaf atco's)...

anyway, g'luck to anyone doing it tomorro, and everyone thats done it... hopefully we get the phone call rather than the letter in mail!

rob

[This message has been edited by tooradinflyer (edited 23 November 2000).]

[ATR Driver.]

TJS and Torradin,

Thanks heaps for the words guys. I can see that it is just a "have a go and wait and see" format, from what you guys have said.

I am looking forward to the challenge and shall keep in touch to let you know results.

Once again, thanks and good luck gentlemen!

ATR.

[LoLevel]

Gday all:

For those who sat the tests just recently cna you advise if the ATC simulation was based on TRACON ( a commercialy avail Windows based atc simulation).

If so this is the test they were using back in 95-96.

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[email protected]
"The views expressed here are a personal rant and rave and in no way reflect the views of my employer/s, not even by coincidence I should imagine "

[Lurk R]

I actually wrote a sector file for the Melbourne TMA for Tracon a number of years ago. Must try and dig it out - wasn't a bad little little sim...

[375ml]

LoLevel, by the sounds of it this testing is a combination of the written and PC testing, they've done away with the two-phase tests that the previous recruitment process comprised. The control test sounds like the the one with 8 directions, 4 levels, 3 speeds - can't remember if this was Tracon or the one that kept crashing (or you could deliberately crash it if you'd f*kd up!)

[tooradinflyer]

375ml, thats the test, (8 dirs, 4 levels, 3 speeds, 4 gates and 2 airports)... i had a separation error and i thought about pushing the reset key to start again! but hopefully one is acceptable... i forget the name of the sim, but it called itself the the "FAA version of Eurocon"... and LoLevel, not Windows based, not Tracon...

the tests were all PC based, except the interrupt test where u had to respond to the tape by writing on a sheet of paper

[This message has been edited by tooradinflyer (edited 25 November 2000).]

[This message has been edited by tooradinflyer (edited 25 November 2000).]

[Adamastor]

Lurk R,

Would love to see the ML TMA version - if you find it would you mind posting it somewhere or e-mailing it on? Cheers.

[Lurk R]

Will try and dig it up...