jobs

[1980ghostrider]

I am due to be finishing my aerodrome course in 6 weeks - does anyone know of any ATC jobs currently or imminently available?

[Spoonbill]

Sorry to put the dampeners on it 180, but there more than enough aerodrome only rated atco's out there.
Unless you have the procedural approach rating, and preferably the approach radar rating as well, you're not much good to anyone.
The first two ratings will get you a long way, having radar as well will get you in almost anywhere and give you the choice of prefered location.
You could try writing to all the non - NATS airfields, but as a lot of them are already training their own staff, and will tell you the same thing as above.
A remote possibility is SERCO, write to Sally Johnston or Peter Sands - Head of Operations, SERCO, Bartley Wood Business Park, Hook. Hampshire. Enclose a top CV, and you might be lucky.

Anyway, best of luck.
You could

[Gisajob]

Dear 180,

Whatever you do, do not listen to Spoonbills poor advice. There is a better way.
Have you ever thought about how lawyers, accountants IT specialists and other professionals search for the right job. They do not send letters to every firm (or airport/SATCO) as that sends out the wrong message to the employer. It tells them that you are desperate and that if they ever employ you, you will probably have no loyalty to them. In our market place employers cannot afford to train an ATCA or a newly qualified ATCO only to see the newly qualified ATCO migrate to their desired location. It also says that you have little initiative, that you have not researched your market and not matched your skills or culture with the airport.
Please consider applying original thought to getting a job. Research the market thoroughly before you merely send a ‘letter to every airport’. Telephone the ATSU and get information on the airport situation. Speak to the SATCO, at least find out the SATCOs name so that if you do write, it is a personal letter. Never send a photocopied letter or CV. It is not surprising that most letters are ignored as it is very rude and presumptuous to send a blind letter.
Consider using an ATC employment agency such as Safeskys. (www. Safeskys.co.uk). You can telephone (01494 451660) and after a counselling interview (over the phone) they will give you free advice on which airports would suit you, how to plan your CV, and what not to do. Safeskys has spent a long time networking in the profession and knows many of the SATCOs and employers within the ATC Industry. Safeskys' skill is matching the right person for the vacancy and they are trusted by employers to place the right person at the right time in their career in the right post. It is a much more professional way for an ATCO to find the right job and it is more confidential that sending a letter to every airport. Safeskys also employ ATCOs and ATCAs and is bidding to take over the complete ATC at five UK Regional Airports. They will employ local ATCOs and in association with Shearwater Training Ltd will train them as APC/APR ATCOs, so there might be an opportunity there.
I hope that this has been helpful.
Finally, don’t give up. If you keep trying you will get there. Good luck in your quest.

[Legs11]

Gisajob methinks your giving a bit of a plug there, and you come from Wycombe!

....1980G if you do write to Serco, then send it to Sally Johnston, Senior Operations Manager - P.Sands is out of the country. ;) ;) ;)

[Spiney Norman]

Blimey Legs11! You beat me to it! Unofficial advertising on Pprune! Tut Tut. I did just what Spoonbill advises , although not through Serco and it worked for me. The only people who ignore personal letters because they think they're rude aren't worth working for. Go for it and don't be too choosey about the area you would accept to work in, that ADC rating jumps up in value when it's been validated and you're on the ladder.

[Never Mr Gap]

Can't believe the rubbish some people will write to try and get some business. If Safeskys is such a big player why the need to advertise so badly? At my own unit we've recruited a number of staff who've made direct approaches but I can honestly say that we've never taken anyone through Safeskys.Take the advice of the people who are clearly telling the truth and not hiding behind some terrible front. Norman Tebbit might not have much use for his bike now, so you should see if you can borrow it !

[Chilli Monster]

Gisajob:

There's an awful lot of your posting that has appeared in other topics - any chance of changing the wording so your cut and paste advertising isn't so blatant? ;) Just out of interest where have you placed people in gainful employment (and I don't think boasting about Sheffield before it went to contract would be a good idea ;))

Ghostrider1980:

I was in the same boat as you 5 years ago. Paid for my own ADC without a job (I'd taken redundancy from the RAF as an assistant). I mailshot EVERYONE possible. As spoonbill says there are a lot of people out there in the same boat - NATS kick outs with ADC only, you'll be competing with them. What won it for me was my CV - it was the best of the 4 that were competing for the job that I got. Follow the basic rules - Lots of bare info on 1 side of a piece of A4. Most people make the mistake of reams of paper which is full of stuff that would be covered at interview.

It's hard but not impossible - don't be disheartened by the many rejections you will get. With the shortage of non-NATS courses things will get better. Accept the fact that you may have to take anything to get that first validation and get a foot on the ladder - I ended up taking an assistants job with an opportunity to achieve that, with the possibility of an ATCO post when it became available - but it worked for me. That was only in 1996 - I did my APP and APR this year so you will move on.

Best of luck

Legs / Spooney

EGTG - 55 days and counting :)

CM

[ 04 September 2001: Message edited by: Chilli Monster ]

[Bright-Ling]

I wish to echo all that has been said here.

I have already questioned the moderators WHY this sompany is allowed to continually post its cut and paste reply to jobs. I was told that they advertise here!

Approach airfields direct - just do it intelligently.

I know people who left NATS with Twr only and airfields such as Shoreham, Southend and Leeds Bradford have taken them. Not an agency in sight!!!

Good luck - but why not get yr app rating(s) too and be highly employable and ahead of the crowd?

[Bright-Ling]

BTW, if free advertising IS allowed, I have a 1994 Ford Sierra for sale!!

B-L

[1980ghostrider]

Chilli monster - what kind of info ? My cv is 2 pages at the moment, but I'm not entirely sure what to cut out??

Thanks everyone for your advice!

[Chilli Monster]

Bright

With ADC courses costing what they are an APP on top makes it VERY expensive. I thought of risking it when I did my ADC and am glad I didn't - I think I would have lost the money.

Ghost

Check your e-mail - I'll send you a copy of mine which has worked for me so far.

CM

[ 04 September 2001: Message edited by: Chilli Monster ]

[Gisajob]

Hey, Legs 11, Spiney Norman, Chilli Monster, Brightling and Never Mr Gap why so bitter. It’s a big world and there is room for everyone you know.
If you read my writing you will find that I offered very practical advice on actually writing to SATCOs. I also advised the wanabee to ‘consider’ using companies such as Safeskys. I also offered free telephone advice. (which I give every day). So I considered that my reply was a helpful response and not an advert. The advice to call Serco was highlighted in the previous reply.

As to the comments about where have we provided ATCOs – 6 airports so far (there is nothing wrong with Swansea, Sheffield, Woodford etc and watch this space.) We do not claim to be anything but a small ATC company with aspirations to grow. 38 employees on 12 airports is enough this week.

If any ATCO wants free quality advice on structuring a CV, I have spent 4 years in a recruitment agency so I may be able to help you. Just call 01494 451660

Anyone got a 1994 Ford Sierra for sale, I need a new company car.

[elandel]

Ghostrider,
Ever thought of approaching NATS? (no pun intended!) :)

[Spiney Norman]

Gisajob.
I don't think the comment'why so bitter' is at all relevent. Your message was started with the comment 'do not follow spoonbills poor advice'. As an ATCO who followed that course of action with success, as obviously a number of the other postee's on this thread did. We are merel'y disagreeing with your comments. Your post came over as an advertisement for Safeskys which your subsequent post obviously admits it was. I have nothing against Safeskys but I do think that attempting to use the threads as a means of rubbishing good practical advice from working ATCOs whilst promoting a company with which you have business links is questionable to say the least. The rest of us on this thread are not ATCO employers, to use your job discription, but ATCOs who were in 1980ghostrider's position at the start of our careers. Ghostrider..best of luck, if you persue it hard enough you'll find the first rung on the ladder.

Spiney

[Legs11]

Spiney, I'm with you. I too did the trawl, and I'm doing fine now thankyou. Go for it 1980G and good luck.

Gisajob you want to update that website of yours...Sheffield and Oxford to name just two are operated by sercothese days.

Chilli-I may be seeing you sooner than you think. ;)

[Spoonbill]

Gisajob!- C'mmon Richard, it's nice to see that you haven't lost your ability to waffle & baffle with bull**** :D :D :D
Best of luck with the "bids for the contracts", I bet the guys + girls at Wattisham are already breaking into cold sweats and having sleepless nights at the thought :p.

Chilli- excellent, see if you can find Mr Noonan's secret zider stash, & I'll be down on a liason visit :D

[Morelands]

Reading through the previous posts, this thread raises a number of issues that Gisajob and the moderator may wish to respond to.

1. If Gisajob is paying to advertise on Pprune where is the advert - or does payment permit him to us the BB to promote his company, Safeskys?
2. How does Gisajob reconcile the conflict of interests between being an employmnet agency and an employer and guarantee the impartiality of the career counselling he claims to provide?
3. If Gisajob is giving free telephone advice every day he must have spoken to hundreds of ATCOs since he started his company in 1993. How many of these are now in theright post at the right time in their career as a result of this counselling?
4. Of the 12 airport client list, how many are bird c ontrol contracts an of those how many are MoD airfields?
5. Of Safeskys's 38 employees how many are bird control operators and how many are working validated ATCOs?
6. How many ATCOs has Gisajob's employment agency successfully placed in ATSUs to date?
7. How many of Safeskys's own ATCO employees are currently working in ATSUs?
8. At how many airports is Safeskys, or any of its employees, the Approved Provider of Air Traffic Services?

When we have the answers to these questions we might be ina bettr position to judge the relative merits of Gisajob's advice to 1980Ghostrider, and Wannabee a couple of weeks ago, and the rsuccessful route that Chilli Monster,Legs 11 and Spiney Norman all followed so successfully.


KOS

[Legs11]

hey Spoonbill....it's NUNAN - Jaquie how's it going up at Toad Hall? Led any more campaigns recently? :cool:

Safeskys are the approved provider at Swansea. Say no more.

[Rad1]

I know the contacts forum might be a better place for this but does this Mr Nunan lurk about on Pprune????


If so, please drop me a private message.

[ 08 September 2001: Message edited by: Rad1 ]