Coordination and cooperation

[Lawyerboy]

I was in the jumpseat of a Buzz 737 into STN last night (UK2305 from LIN, over London at about 8pm) and heard ATC over London ask for '220 by BKY'. Fair enough. When we got to BKY and Essex ATC were contacted, though, they said 'no speed'.

Why was the restriction issued in the first place, then?

[identnospeed]

Sometimes we have to guess at what sort of speed the Essex Radar guys want, because either they are too busy to tell us what they want or we are too busy to ask. 220 knots is standard holding speed for the Lorel hold, so usually when in doubt we get the a/c to fly standard speeds.
It might not be quite as expeditious, but with traffic in general and Lorel traffic in particular, growing inexorably, standard speeds are going to be the norm not the exception.

Also the TMA controller may have thought that your a/c was no. 2 to another a/c arriving from another direction and applied a slower speed to get some form of spacing and then on transfer the Essex person changed the order.

There are plenty more reasons for a change of speed other than the above.

INS

[Grandad Flyer]

Lawyerboy - usually its the other way around - London tell us no speed control, we tune into Essex and their first comment is "speed 220 (or 180), no.1". I've never understood it....
On a slightly different topic, there is a strange NOTAM that has been out a while, saying that Essex Radar frequency 120.62 withdrawn" and something about Stansted Director now being Stansted Radar.
Whats all that about then?

[Dan Dare]

There are many different reasons for changes of speed. The list would be endless. You aren't the only aircraft out there!

Grandad, that awful NOTAM caused confusion everywhere. To précis:

126.95 Stansted Radar is renamed Stansted Director.
120.62 Essex Radar.

First contact after BKY/BUZAD/CPT deps is now published as 126.95, not 120.62.

No frequency has been withdrawn.

Apologies for my description, but I think it is clearer than the NOTAM.

[Grandad Flyer]

OK, I missed this reply from Dan dare first time around, so apologies for my repeat posting. I am only a mere pilot.... :)

However, if this NOTAM is causing so much confusion why has it not be re-worded? Who do I call?

The NOTAM itself talks rubbish!

[passepartout]

correct me if im wrong but also we are led to believe 220 knots is min clean speed for a 737...nothing to do with why the restriction was put on, but just one of those figures you tend to pick out of the air when scrabbling in your brain passages!

[U R NumberOne]

Min clean on a 737 seems to vary between 210 and 220. Just yesterday had an EZY 737 said his was 210 and a BA 737-400 a bit later asked for 220 - is this a company thing or the difference between a -300 and a -400?

One technique I've seen used is ask them to reduce to Min Clean Speed and to report what that will be - cuts down on RT.

[Sick Squid]

UR, depends for us in BA on the weight and type of 737 (we fly multiple variants from-200 through to the EIS-type, plus our own post-Kegworth -436's.) If you plan on 220 you won't go wrong.

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Disappears in a cloud of black ink...

[This message has been edited by Sick Squid (edited 22 August 2000).]