"Cleared to line up after landing traffic..."

[MFALK]

This might sound pedantic, but here goes;

If ATC issues a clearance to line up after a landing traffic, and this traffic goes around, is the line up clearance automatically cancelled?

[Rad1]

I guess this is where common sense must be used. You might add a rider to the question where the landing aircraft has touched down before commencing the go-around (I don't mean after it's been cleared for a touch and go) if you want to make it really interesting.

I imagine that the phraseology 'After the landing xxx, line up ...' is really short for 'After the landing xxx has passed you ....'. So, once the lander has gone past the departure, I would expect the departing aircraft to line up unless I cancelled the clearance.

Of course, others might have a different interpretation and there is no black and white answer (at least here in the UK).

I don't think the line up clearance is
automatically cancelled but if there is a particular reason it should not line up I would cancel the clearance. Otherwise I would expect the departure to line up but be quite ready to accept the pilot's different interpretation or request for confirmation.

[YoungAndyMac]

My thoughts,
"After the landing....line up....."
If the landing aircraft goes around, its not landing any more therefore I don't line up without further clarification.
The conditional clearance is normally used to expedite traffic and I would expect further landing or departing traffic close behind me as I line up.
If I do line up and I cannot be given a take-off clearance perhaps due vortex or proximity of the previous go-around, I might actually be causing the next arrival to go around as well since I am now blocking the runway.
Your thoughts?

[Skytalkert]

Your question is a good one... As an ATC my advice is to continue the lineup BUT state on the radio to the TWR that you are doing it if you think he may want to change the instruction. Say it while you are still TWY side of the holding position so that it can still change its mind if it wants and tell you to stop.

[chiglet]

To be "Ultra" safe
"Confirm after the g/a tfc, line up and wait"
I think?? :confused:
we aim to please, it keeps the cleaners happy

[cossack]

Interesting question...

This occured up here a few weeks ago, not to me fortunately.

A330 on final. E145 given conditional line-up. A330 goes around due config., E145 lines up. Next A330 also goes around due vortex precluding departure of the E145.

I think clarification should be sought prior to lining up.

[Gonzo]

I would 'expect' you to continue the line up, if only for the safety implication that I have given a line up clearance that has not yet been cancelled. However, I would ASAP first check if you need extra time on the runway due vortex, if any further landing a/c are approaching, and then either confirm or cancel the line up depending on the other traffic.

If I were a pilot, I'd ask the tower if the line up is still valid and say if I require vortex separation.

Gonzo

[HugMonster]

Sorry to divert this thread just a tad...

I don't know what the exact phraseology of the term should be, but it helps a lot if TWR includes the airline, type and exact position of the landing traffic.

e.g.:- "xxx123, after the Aer Lingus 737 short final, line up and wait".

Yes, I know you mostly do that if there is possile cause for confusion with the Aer Lingus at 3 miles, but if there ain't one further out, we don't necessarily know that, particularly if we've only just switched from GMC to TWR and have yet to build up situational awareness.

We had an incident recently at a (non-English speaking) airport where the clearance was "XXX123, after the 737 line up and wait." The 737 lined up was on the roll, our Captain had released the brake when the (local lingo-speaking) FO heard another aircraft cleared to land (in the vernacular) and spoke up sharpish. Aircraft stopped partway across the line. Lo and behold, another 737 landed.

I know this happens rarely here, but it doesn't take much extra time to give crews all the information required. The only time passing details of the airline might cause confusion, of course, is when you have Titan using a British callsign, bmi using Lufthansa, etc. etc.

[HEATHROW DIRECTOR]

Only a pilot would say "Cleared to line up after the landing, etc".. which scares the sh*t out of ATCOs....

This is a situation not covered by a manual but by commonsense. When it happened to me I confirmed to the waiting a/c "after the go-around xxx (a/c type and airline) line up".. or told him to hold his position. If the pilot is unsure it only takes a second to get confirmation - that's what the wireless is for.

[TrafficTraffic]

I may have missed the whole point of this thread but 2 things.
1) Shouldnt the phraseology be "BAW 1, behind the 737 on short final line up" therefore avoiding any possibilty of cut off transmissions like "737 on short final Line up.....(behind that aircraft)" as I belive was the incident report.

2) Under no.1 above there is no mention of the acft landing or conducting a missed approach. Should the aircraft conduct a missed approach or indeed be sent around the landing clearance is cancelled so I fail to see any problem, the other aicraft now has the runway.

Did I miss something or should I tend goal for Germany? and let another through!


;) ;) ;)

[information_alpha]

i think you will find that the phraeseology is:

After the landing (aircraft type) line up

There is no ambiguity. If the a/c goes around then the clearance is not valid. I would not expect the a/c to move. However to ensure this i would either cancel the clearance or amend it.

However use your common sense. If things are not exectly as the controllers clearance issued - QUESTION IT!

[TrafficTraffic]

If the acft on final conducts a missed approach, why would you not want the holding acft to line up?

:confused:

Why would you assume that the clearance is void if the acft go's around?

But I agree ASK

[Bev Bevan]

TT....
If they are both IFR, the one on the ground may well be made RSAP by the approach controller, on being informed of the go-around.

[Bright-Ling]

I think at the very least you could expect the aircraft to queery the instruction.

As Bev says, the departing aircraft will probably no longer be released.

Also, as said above, the departing aircraft may now be subject vortex on the go-around.

Could be embarrassing if an aircraft is on final!!

Case closed?!????