ME IR in Spain

[Big_Bopper]

Hi,
I will be looking to do my IR in Spain in the new year, i was wondering if anyone could give me any advise or recommendations as to which school(s) are best. I have looked at Adventia and AreoMadrid and they both look good from the website, so information from someone who has done their IR at these schools will be greatly appreciated.

Cheers

[pa28biggles]

Check out http://www.aerofanfto.com
I don't know anything about them, except that they do IR's at a very reasonable price. They are on my short list for IR.
Hope this helps.

[Capt. Manuvar]

I have a few questions for those who've done IR's in spain.
1. Are the requirements for a spanish IR different from the UK CAA requirements? I have noticed some differences in flying hours btw UK and spanish schools.
2. Has anyone converted an ICAO IR to a Spanish IR and how much did it cost?
3. What does the UK CAA charge you for swopping a spanish IR for a UK one?
Thanks
Capt. M

[peb]

One of the spanish FTOs offers this program:

15h- Piper warrior
18h- Seneca
25h- Sim (ATC 810)

This program changes btw spanish FTOs.

You dont swop anything from the DGAC to the CAA. Your spanish examiner will fill a CAA form that will be send to the CAA. And they will add it to your licence. Im quite sure about it but you can send an email to a spanish FTO to be 100% sure.


:ok:

[potter5]

Can anyone give me any info on completing an IR in Spain. I have managed to get a list of all the schools based in Spain and, have done a search on PPRUNE. The search came back with some good info but a lot of it is over a year old and, many things can change in a year! However, I have managed to get plenty of info on flight training Europe in Jerez.

I am a JAA CPL holder and, am looking at completing my IR at a Spanish flight training organisation, who offers the course in English. I am interested in hearing from students past and present, modular, or integrated (both British and, non British) on what they think of their training.

I particular I would like to know what you think of the level of instruction? Do the instructors speak good English?

Have you had any problems with ATC only speaking in Spanish?

What are the aircraft like? Are they well maintained?

I have read on a previous post Cuatro Vientos is very busy and can be quite dangerous. Is it that bad? Do you end up having to hold for a long time? Is this the same at any of the other airfields in Spain?

How long will I need to allow to complete the IR? Some schools say 3 weeks, some say 3 months.

Do you have any recommendations for accommodation?

If you have any comments you don’t think are suitable for this forum please feel free to send me a personal message.

Thanks.

[ZINIDINE]

I did some hour building with aerofan out of cuatro vientos
2 years ago and found them very friendly.
ATC spoke english if spoken to in english and the biggest school there aeromadrid encouraged their students to transmit in english so it wasnt all that bad.....after a bit of getting used to.
as most of my flying was solo im not sure about the level of instruction but a good number of instructers spoke english.

GOOD LUCK !

[peb]

I particular I would like to know what you think of the level of instruction?
I think that is good but they will teach you some rules that they dont teach in Uk. I mean but that they will make you to make mental calculations (for VOR interceptions, DME arch....). They only use them so you can untherstand a few things. Airlines dont use them.

Do the instructors speak good English?
I know a few of them and they dont look like the have any problem.

Have you had any problems with ATC only speaking in Spanish?
Many of the people speaks in spanish to ATC but lately many people are doing it in English. Not much problem with spanish ATC.

What are the aircraft like? Are they well maintained?
The aircraft that I did fly had a really good maintained but I guess that depends on the FTO.

I have read on a previous post Cuatro Vientos is very busy and can be quite dangerous. Is it that bad? Do you end up having to hold for a long time? Is this the same at any of the other airfields in Spain?
Cuatro Vientos is a busy airport and I didnt have any dangerus situation in 100 hours. The longest holding I had was 10 min (arrival) and 20 mins for departure but I didnt have many. The other spanish airfieds are not that busy.

How long will I need to allow to complete the IR?
Around 4 weeks. But again depends on the FTO. And the hours that you do in the course. In some of the you do 33 hours real flying and 25 hours in the sim. In other ones you do 45 hours real flying.

Do you have any recommendations for accommodation?
where abouts? In Madrid?







:ok:

[ABO944]

Hello all ...

I wanted some advice on my future training plans .... por favor!

I am looking into doing my CPL and IR over in either Portugal or Spain, but just wanted to see what your opinions are on this, as I would like to eventually get a job with a UK airline (yeah I know, join the que!)

What would a future employer prefer given the choice between me with my sunny med CPL/IR, and another person with their CPL/IR all done in UK airspace ??

I know its all JAA FCL issued licences now, but would an employer pick the person who has done it all in UK airspace rather than myself ?

The reason im asking is because it seems to me that the majority that do go abroad, tend to go the States rather than the rest of Europe/World.

I have heard of the Flight academy in Jerez, but unfortunately my Daddy doesnt have a yacht!

;)

Trying to save money on the training, whilst looking after my family etc etc, but dont want to save the cash only to rear-end myself and not get that job in the end by doing it this way.

Your views would be most appreciated!

ABO

[arfur-sixpence]

Take care with the Spanish JAA licence - there is reported to be widescale corruption within the ground examining system and as such the licence has little or no credibility outside of Spain. If you go to Spain then ensure that you train under a UK approve FTO.

[Angel´s One Fife]

Arfur

What tosh.

[rodquiman]

Arfur-sixpence, my licence is Spanish and has at least the same credibility as yours, man. I worked too hard for it!!

[arfur-sixpence]

Don't shoot the messenger -just speak to the Spanish staff at FTE in Jerez, Spanish people with experience of the Spanish system.

It is well know that a few Euros in the right place will get you the exam questions for the ATPL exams in advance of the test date.

[747 Truth]

Angels said it right when he/she said what tosh!

Arfur did you take a degree on talking crap or does it come naturally?


:mad: :mad:

[Flying surfer]

I agree with Arthur- Sixpence. I did my training in the UK and have since flown with many Spanish pilots pilots who had recently passed their IR, I was surprised at how bad they flew and what poor quality of airmanship they had.



I my opinion many shouldn't even hold an IR. I have lived in Spain and it is a country that still runs on who you know and not what you know and many Spanish pilots have rich daddy's with connections.

[747 Truth]

I respect your opinions but at a recent flyer show at LHR i manage to meet a BA training Captain and he said oxford or Jerez are ok with us....a friend introduced me to Virgin's training captain and he said exactly the same thing (although virgin said that integrated or modular is ok with them..its the hours that count!)

Theres nothing wrong with FTE Jerez in Spain....one of the best schools if not the BEST!

:ok:

[wingman1]

I was in Jerez for my ATPL and have to say that i couldn't really knock it. Saying that that was when it was BAE, the planes where British registered and the IR's and written exams were all carried out by British examiners/invigilators. I was down there a while back and have to say it didn't look like much had changed since the name 'BAE' was removed. Infact, i was told that one airline had gone down to jerez to interview studebts before they graduated (wish they had done that when i was there!). I seriously don't think Oxford is looked any better apon than Jerez, you just need to look at the amount of airlines that slowly dropped out of oxford for their training and moved to Jerez (BA, Airtours, Air Malta, Britannia one of two GAPAN guys too) Hope this helps, and as long as you keep your head down and work like a 'reallyhardworkingperson' you'll do fine wherever you end up. Best of luck, Wingman

[Angel´s One Fife]

Flying surfer.

The UK is no differant to Spain. Many a young Briton is flying RHS in an airline where his daddy is the Fleet manager, ops manager. It is the same the world over. Up until JAR the Spanish IR was harder than the UK version with most folks flying it in a King Air or equivelant.



Arfur. "Don't shoot the messenger -just speak to the Spanish staff at FTE in Jerez, Spanish people with experience of the Spanish system. " Don't you think they have a vested interest in complaining about Spanish FTO's After all FTE is a lot more expensive than other Spanish FTO's for the same product. MOst of the staff at FTE are Spanish so perhpas there issome bitterness there.

[rodquiman]

I did my training in the UK and have since flown with many Spanish pilots pilots who had recently passed their IR, I was surprised at how bad they flew and what poor quality of airmanship they had.

Do not think everybody is the same. I know EXCELLENT Spanish pilotos who worked hard to pass their exams and whose quality of airmanship is a lot better than that of other pilots I've flown with and who did they trainng at, for example the USA. It's true that a lot of pilots should not have their licence, I also know a lot of them, but not everybody is the same. I spent a lot of months awaking before 5 o'clock to go and practice, to study while other people was at bed at 12. I spent a fortune in books while others just used the ones provided by the school. Some days I spent 13 hours at the Flight School studying, flying, using the flight sim solo, etc. Surfer, Arfur, you don't know us, so don't judge.
Me, and a lot of Spanish pilots deserve respect!

[arfur-sixpence]

M80 - silly me, what would I know? I only worked there!

[kala87]

Does anyone have any experience of training at Aerofan (located at Cuatro Vientos, Madrid) or Aeromadrid (same location)? I'm considering doing the flying part of the IR in Spain. I've already done the written exams in the UK. In particular, what is the standard of instruction like, and what is the condition of the aircraft?

Cheers

[Flying surfer]

for the record i didn't mean Jerez I meant the the numerous schools that are based at Cuatro Vientos (Madrid) and other major Spanish FTO's

[kala87]

cabeza

I'm also looking to do ME-IR flight training in Spain. I've looked at the Airpal website but can't find any mention of prices.

Could you please tell me what you paid for the ME-IR (not including ground school and exam costs, as I've done the writtens in the UK)?

The Spanish test fee of only 150 Euros is amazing. Our dear old "campaign against aviation" is now charging £637 for the same test!

Could you please also let me know the following:

How good are the instructors, and what is their experience level?

What kind of condition are the aircraft in? I assume the twins are HSI and RMI equipped.

I assume that tuition in English is available. I speak reasonable Spanish but an English speaking instructor would be preferred.

Are you expected to pay up front, or can you pay-as-you-go?

Flying in the Balearics this winter sounds like more fun than dear old blighty. I've already done some VFR flying there in a C172 and Cherokee 6 and it was brilliant.

Cheers

[navoff]

Cabeza

Do you mind sending me information about the school as well. I am very interested!

[ChocksAwayUK]

Ooh.. how secretive. Could you send me the PM Cabeza? I'm looking into training in Spain next year.

[divorcingjack]

Actually, me too, if you wouldn't mind cabenza ? I have just recovered consciousness after being quoted for some UK schools !

Thanks,
divorcingjack

[Frank Furillo]

And me please, I was thinking avbout going back to the Usa, but this would be a better answer. Thanks
FF

[carolan]

If KALA87 , NAVOFF, CHOCKSAWAY UK, DIVORCING JACK and FRANK FURILLO e-mail me at [email protected] with their requirements I will let them have all the details,prices,etc.

[gsy boy]

I AM CURRENTLY LOOKING AT FINALLY DOING MY MULTI IR, AND HAVE SEEN SOME INTERESTING ADVERTS FOR JAA TRAINING IN SPAIN. HAS ANYBODY EXPERIENCED THIS ROUTE, AND ARE THERE ANY PITFALLS? AEROFAN FTO IN MADRID LOOKS FAVOURITE AT PRESENT, HAVE ANY OF YOU HEARD OF IT? ANY FEEDBACK MUCH APPRECIATED:O

[razzele]

please could u PM me the information on this too!!!

i want to convert my ICAO IR in europe using a BE-76


cheers

[Lightheart]

As well as AeroMadrid does anyone have any experience with Aerodynamics in Málaga?

As for American Flyers in Madrid, I asked for information from their web page two weeks ago. Called them three times complaining and still haven't received anything.

One time they actually asked me to call another day back because they were having a party!

[ST4G]

A1F, Surely people at Ex BAe Jerez were Spanish people with experience of the UK CAA system.

[icepilot]

Hi,

I'm planning to do my Instrument Rating in Spain this summer (June), there are 1000's of topics on spainish FTO's here so why not raise a new one :D

Does anyone have any information on how long you usually have to wait to begin a course with Aerofan/Aerodynamics, that is how long in advance you normally have to book a course?

Currently I'm thinking about doing this IR Advanced course with Aerofan that includes 52 twin hours for 14.400 Euro.

If anyone has any experience from this school/course, comments would be well appriciated.

until later...

[stratotanker135]

Malaga is an international airport with 650 flights a day VOR NDB AND ILS approaches. Aerofan is not an Instrument aerodrome and you have to fly out to Salamanca and other aerodromes for instrument training. cheap is not the way. Aerodynamics is a well recognised training and charter company within Spain flying local Celeb's including the Real Madrid footballers around. Plus your on the coast.

[naughtybutnice6792]

I was thinking of doing my CPL, Multi and IR out in spain starting May time through to August (at a different FTO) ; however a few people have warned me off, as with the temperature so high out there in the summer, nobody flys (until much later on in the afternoon) because of the actual aircraft temperature operating limits! Also, they said stuck in a sim in those temperatures can be quite unbearable!
Just wondered if anyone had said similar to you?!
Good luck with everything!

[stratotanker135]

Well thats amazing you should put your woolly hat on and kettle and have a nice cup of tea!!( for six months) leave the rain and 6 months IR course behind and put your future in your own hands.
Please too hot!! At Aerodynamics there are no sims all real time 65 hrs 25 hrs duchess and 40 hrs 172 complex.

[icepilot]

What?

What is "you should put your woolly hat on and kettle and have a nice cup of tea for six months" supposed to mean?

[kipo]

ATPL and IR ME in Spain modular
hello
I am French and I wish to make a ATPL IR ME modular in Spain. Can you say to me if there are schools with English courses.
Which are the good schools Airmed, Aeromadrid, Aerofan.....
The ATPL theoric is it easier than in France.
Thank you

[knik99]

Holding a FAA ME/IR, and UK issued JAA CPL, is it possible to convert the FAA ME/IR into a JAA ME/IR in Spain and ask the CAA to add it to the JAA CPL?
Does somebody knows what the process consist in? I know about the 15 hours, 10 in the sim, 5 in the plane.
Did somebody convert it in Spain? What kind of paperwork if some is needed to apply for the license?
Any school recomendations? Aerofan? Aerodynamics?
Thanks a lot,
KniK

[Kyla - Aerodynamics]

Hi!

I can give you all the information if you like, email me: [email protected]

[nuclear weapon]

I am planning to go to spain to go and do my meir and have heard from a couple of guys who went and they recommended some schools down there but I'll like to get a more diverse opinion before i commit myself.
Part of the reason is the cost saving they mentioned. One of them got his multi engine ir for just over 6 grand and another guy told me the same thing as far as I know they had no problems with the caa issuing thier license.
For this price is there a catch?. Your advice will be highly appreciated.
Based on what I've heard I am concidering Aeromadrid.

[BillieBob]

Whilst you clearly have some difficulty distinguishing between a 'licence' and a 'rating', the fact is that the UK CAA will attach a rating gained in any JAA member state to a licence issued in the UK. However, it is also the case that an increasing number of UK airlines will insist that their pilots hold only licences and ratings issued in the UK.

Holders of JAA licences issued by other JAA member states are frequently being required to change their State of Licence Issue to the UK before being offered employment by UK airlines.

[nuclear weapon]

Whilst you clearly have some difficulty distinguishing between a 'licence' and a 'rating
Sorry about the English! I actually dont think I have the above stated problem. Its just that a while ago on these forums a certain Spanish school had some problems which was acknowledged by a lot of people and it was rumored that the caa was not recognising the ratings gained from that school. However the school I mentione seem toget a lot of positive feed back as I have found out through the search facility I just wanted to get a bit more info before commiting myself as Madrid is not the same distance as southampton.
It doesn't make sense to me why the caa will reject a rating gained in a jaa state. Students train in Germany, France and other European countries and have gone on to work for airlines in this country after gaining thier license.I am sure you can find that out yourself. With the exception of the imc I think and know for sure the other ratings are accepted. I stand to be corrected.

[F199]

Hi guys I did the abridged ME/IR in Aerodynamics Malaga they where very professional and there rates are great.

[Mercenary Pilot]

it is also the case that an increasing number of UK airlines will insist that their pilots hold only licences and ratings issued in the UK.


BillieBob

Which ones would they be?

[wingnut-will]

BillieBob

Which ones would they be?

Even if that were the case, refusing someone employment for a non-UK but JAA licence, would be illegal? Then what would be the point of the JAA anyway? Nah, FISHY!

[porridge]

I heard about someone who was on their 3rd series of attempts at the UK JAA IR test and was concerned that if he failed the 3rd series he could then never get the IR. He was advised to go to Spain (I think it was in Valencia) and a week later he had his IR.
Seems they are much more practical about the IR out there than here in the UK so it seems to be a much better option if you want to avoid the aggravation and especially the cost of the test fees, to go to Spain. Guess it really doesn't matter where as the schools are very price competitive and all appear to get good results on the test.

[Alex Whittingham]

Don't FTE Jerez use the same examiners as Aerodynamics Malaga? How could the tests be different?

[Me-Uk]

Hi,

I did mine at AEROFAN. Very good service, and they made me feel like a real customer. But do book up well in advance, the last I heard was that they were fully booked until October! They provided me with a very complete file that I gave to the CAA at Gatwick. No problem with that at all.

Whilst I was out in Madrid, there was another chap doing his IR-ME who had started the course previously at another FTO in the UK (can't remember which one I'm afraid), and for some reason or other decided to complete it at AEROFAN. He mentioned to me that the CAA didn't mind him doing it in Spain, but he had to start the course from scratch. So it looks like you can't just do the course at home, then fly a few hours in Spain and then do the skills test.

As for the IR Skills Test at Aerofan, mine was very complete indeed. My JAA examiner was an Iberia Airbus Captain, and it was a marvelous experience to fly with him. I learnt a lot!!!

Cheers!

[jar-dk]

Hi nuclear

I did mine at Aeromadrid - i was not impressed to say the least. They promised me flights everyday - when i was lucky I was scheduled for 3times a week (incl SIM) - and then came the weather which fu.... that up - - seemed like Aerofan were much more practical there you flew when weather was within legal limits not when the CFI thought you could... and CFIs limits were alot stricter than the law. Another thing that is good about Aerofan is the english level spoken there, and there is a english boss there too. PM me for further info if you like.

[pipertommy]

I feel uncertain on commiting to do my ME/IR in Spain as people i have spoke to said the standards are not the same as in the UK.I`m not by anymeans slating the training in Spain!!But heard people coming back to the UK are having to re-do aspects of the course to get up to speed for sim rides ect?Apparrently airways joining was unfamiliar and not alot covered on NDB`S:confused: I see why the price is a big puller(for me !)compared to British prices and weather.Is there anyone on here who has secured a job in the UK after training in Spain OR anyone from UK schools like to shed an unbiased opinion.Please shoot my statements down,six grand against twelve,umm big savings!

[Mercenary Pilot]

A few of my UK trained pals have done brush up courses before going for airline sim checks, I just improves the chance of getting the job (even if its only a confidence boost).

Usually because of the heavy hire costs invoved, most students after completing the IR dont get the chance to fly IFR (especially in a twin!) until their annual renewel. IR skills rust VERY quickly when not being used.

[moggiee]

Don't FTE Jerez use the same examiners as Aerodynamics Malaga? How could the tests be different?
Last I heard FTE were still using UK CAA flight test examiners whereas other schools use local Spanish examiners.

Annecdotal evidence from a couple of customers of the Spanish schools would appear to indicate a more "relaxed" attitude by the examiners when it came to standards.

I stress that this is annecdotal evidence but I did speak to these people direct whilst training them here in the UK after the event.

[moggiee]

complete indeed. My JAA examiner was an Iberia Airbus Captain, and it was a marvelous experience to fly with him. I learnt a lot!!!
Was he examining or teaching? You should not have "learnt a lot" from an examiner!

[Mercenary Pilot]

You should not have "learnt a lot" from an examiner!

I don’t know about that moggiee, I've had some great de-briefings after flight tests. This was "after" I had passed though, obviously.

I have heard the rumours about this "relaxed" attitude (no screens, lax height keeping etc.). However like most of these sorts of rumours, they seem to be exaggerated by some UK flight training establishments and tend not to be the "norm". (Not saying that is the case in your experience).

[hughesyd]

.Is there anyone on here who has secured a job in the UK after training in Spain OR anyone from UK schools like to shed an unbiased opinion.Please shoot my statements down,six grand against twelve,umm big savings!


I am aware of at least 3 guys who have been through Aerofan to do their IR/ME and are ow with airlines flying 737/ a320

[pipertommy]

Ye Mercenary Pilot its stuff like not even having screens up during test:confused: Thats what i worry about!Dont want to waste my money and have to retrain when i come back:hmm:

[Mercenary Pilot]

Ye Mercenary Pilot its stuff like not even having screens up during test That’s what I worry about!Dont want to waste my money and have to retrain when I come back

Like I say, alot of these rumours are exaggerations or pure fantasy dreamed up by the UK training industry to try and put potential students off a cost efficient trip to warmer climates. I know students trained in this country who have managed to get through the IR test but can’t fly real IFR or land a commercial jet/turboprop to save their lives. Just make sure you pick a good school where ever you choose to go…be it the UK, Spain or Timbuktu (when they get JAA approval of course;) ).

Visit the your shortlisted schools before even thinking about signing up or handing over any money.

:ok:

[Me-Uk]

Was he examining or teaching? You should not have "learnt a lot" from an examiner!

He was most certainly examining!! I can assure you of that.
The exam was very thorough. It's not easy dealing with an engine-failure on a light twin whilst flying the missed approach procedure, at 4000 feet with an OAT of 35ºC, even if it is in a Cessna 310! The examiner was not "relaxed".

But, after we finnished a very complete exam indeed, and once he had de-briefed and done the paperwork, he spent another whole hour and half discussing several parts of the exam and how I could work at improving. He also explained the differences that I can expect if I move up and get a job with an airline, and what to expect at sim check ride. I think this chap was also a TRE.

So, let's not get anyone thinking that an IR is Spain is a give-away, because it quite simply isn't. At least not in my case.

[Walk the line]

Aerofan FTO is booked up until September.:ok: