QRH (Boeing)-Non-Normal checklist use

[alexban]

HY
In the QRH (737) says : In case of an emergency,at the direction of the pilot flying,both pilots ,without delay accomplish all recall items in their areas of responsability.
In the FCOM 1 there are defined the areas of responsability of PF/PNF.
My question is this: How you handle a emergency situation,such as depressurization/ emergency descent?
For ex: Who closes the outflow valve switch,in both cases (cpt PF/PNF)?
passenger signs,oxygen switch,....
What says your comp. SOP regarding QRH,recall items ?
Thks

Alex

[JABBARA]

Hi Alex,

In this particular emergency (depressurization/emergency descent) my company's SOP dictates the Capt (left seat) to takeover the control regardless who was PF previously. Then F/O performs the recall and/or reference items in the QRH while the Capt is handling the airplane including the Emergency Descent if required.

There is one more particular case at which the Capt assumes the control: "Loss of Both Gen".

In all other cases, Company assumes that the Flight Deck of
B 737 is rather small (my thought, it is rather uncomfortable as well, as a known Boeing design :* ) so that any control or switch is within the accesible range to manipulate from either seat position. Consequently, the crew continues their PF/PNF position in these cases.

Regards
Jabbara

[alexban]

Jabbara : won't you leave the AP on in such a case?
Assuming the Cpt becomes PF,will the FO perform all the recall items?(including valve close,pax oxy,fasten belts,start switches...)
What about the initiation of the emergency descent,speed brake? (these are in PF area of responsability)
Thks
Alex

[alexban]

let me rephrase the question:
You're at cruise.Sudden lose of pressure. Who's doing what? (maneuvres,switches pushed,etc...) How you do it?
1-Cpt is PF
2 Cpt is PNF
Going to the sim in a few days,and wanting to have some exterior opinions about this.
Thks
Brgds Alex

[JABBARA]

Hi Alex,

In the company's SOP, there is a seperate chapter prescribing and illustrating the recommended PF/PNF actions for some (not all) non-normal maneuvers including SE ILS approach, Engine Failure at Take off, Rapid decompression ...etc. etc... Here the goal is to bring the QRH items to a visual scene as detailing them to faciliate their usage in real life.

Particularly For Rapid Decompression it states simultaneous actions as:

Capt:

*Done the Mask
*Establish the Comm (Toggle the sw to "Mask", ensure FLT INT and Speaker Receiver switches are depressed)
*Initiate the Emergency descent if Cabin pressure is not controllable
# Turn the heading about 45 degree off the present track. After 30 sec, realign with previous track
# Spin down MCP Alt
# Spindown Vert Speed Thumbwheel
# When the nose drops, select LVL Change
# Set MCP speed to VMO/MMO
# Deploy thye speed brake
# Check MCP alt is 10000 feet or MOCA


F/O:



*Done the Mask
*Establish the Comm
*Pressurization mode switch manual
*Outflow valve close, Check descent in cabin altitude and rate
*If not controllable, announce the descent to ATC and cabin crew
*Check Pax Oxyg sw ON
* Check Ign Sw is FLT
*Check Check MOCA if above 10000
* Do the CL



In general I hope these help.


Ridvan

[Intruder]

Our FHB sez PF controls the airplane and radios; PNF handles the checklists, including moving the appropriate switches. In general, PF will use autopilot if feasible.

[alexban]

Ridvan: thks for your detailed answer.We use to have PF doing all the items except valve close.But we are talking now to change to something more like your procedure.I get the FO SET the pax oxyg sw,ign sw ,fasten belts sgn on ,right? Thks again

intruder: the procedure you described is valid also for emerg with recall items? The pnf will perform all the recall items also (move the switches) under pf supervision,of course ?

LEM,Bokomo ,how about your SOP?

Brgds Alex

[Hudson]

How about this then. Certain 737 operator requires that no action be taken by anyone until 600 ft agl on take off. So if engine fire and simultaneous engine failure occur after V1 on runway and second segment rate of climb heavy aircraft is only 400 fpm on one engine, is it really good airmanship to cool one's heels until 600 ft and then get around to pulling a few levers and finally get around to firing the first bottle some two and a bit minutes after the fire started? There is no such thing as a cool fire. They are all very very hot.

What is this roaring fire doing to other vital components as it is allowed to burn away unabated simply beacuse someone has directed (no doubt fully approved by their CAA as well) that nothing must be actioned below 600 ft agl?

[alexban]

It has to do with keeping the a/c under control and keeping it 'cool'. There were some cases of shutting down the wrong engine due to hurry,not to mention losing control and crashing the plane .
So,the most important thing will be : first control the plane,then the fire. 400' it's the minimum alt I've heard of as a recall starting point.And only with a/c under control,gear up.

No back to my question,what's your answer?How you do it?
Thks Alex

[M.85]

Alex,

remember Boeing has 2 QRH checklists:

Depressurization and Emergency Descent

One may follow the other but not if Depressurization is controllable as Jabbara pointed out indirectly.

M.85

[JABBARA]

Hudson,

…so if engine fire and simultaneous engine failure occur after V1 on runway and second segment rate of climb heavy aircraft is only 400 fpm on one engine...

For a dual engine airplane, in the case of single engine failure, the climb gradient at second segment with V2, should be at least 2.4 %. This is a worldwide requirement imposed by ICAO. For a heavy airplane if we assume the average V2 equals to 150 KIAS (let's say equals around 160 KTAS), I figure out the climb rate will be around 600 fpm. In addition to this, the engine fire is most likely to occur not within the core of the engine where the thrust producing fan, compressor and turbine are driven but around the core where it is very unlikely the thrust is reversely affected.
The conclusion: If an engine fire occurs, probability of loss of thrust is quite low. Therefore, the airplane will climb with a good rate until reaching the height where the drill is initiated.


I have written all these because my company has the similar procedure: "No action below 800 feet". Lastly, this 800 agl (or 600 agl for others but in any case not less than 400 agl as again a worldwide requirement) is not an arbitrary altitude. This is the altitude, which is accepted by the company for the end of second segment and the beginning of acceleration segment upon which all performance calculations are predicated.


Sorry I have slightly veered off the subject

:O

Jabbara

[Intruder]

intruder: the procedure you described is valid also for emerg with recall items? The pnf will perform all the recall items also (move the switches) under pf supervision,of course ?

Yes.

Not everything will be done "immediately," though. For a failed engine on takeoff, for example, nothing is done until 500', other than the PNF calling "Engine Failure." Then, with the airplane stable, the PF calls for memory items, and may call for autopilot. PNF will reach for the thrust lever, call "#4 thrust lever..." , and the PF will call "Confirmed." before it is moved.

Nothing further is done until the airplane is cleaned up and climbing. Then the PNF continues with the checklist.

[Hudson]

Thanks Jabarra. While I am aware that 2.4% is the certified gradient, I was always told that due to several factors the aircraft may not attain that steady gradient which is why 0.8% is knocked off for obstacle clearance calculations. Throw in a curved take off following engine failure at V1 with a reduction during the turn of 0.6% and now the gradient can be legally as low as one percent. If therefore the fire is burning merrily and it takes a rate of climb of say 150 fpm during a curved departure to reach 600 ft that is an awful long time to pretend there is no pressing need to extinguish the fire.

All this is absolute worst case and no doubt is stastistically insignificant. But a fire is a fire is a fire and who knows what other systems are affected. Defining the exact moment when you can assess the aircraft is under control and you can take fire fighting action is a matter of personal experience and viewpoint. Of course people have crashed due loss of control with engine failure after lift off but that largely depends on pilot competency.
A wise pilot never underestimates the danger of an engine fire at take off.

[M.85]

call is : engine failure OR engine Fire or Engine separation OR severe Damage..
Why shut down an engine which still gives you some thrust until having safely reached MSA...QRH engine failure is not QRH engine fire,severe damage or seperation.

Safe flying to all,

M.85

[Intruder]

That's why I said "for example"...

What are the memory items for a single engine failure? There are none in our FHB!

What about engine fire / severe damage / separation? Thrust lever CLOSE.

So, at 500' or above, the PNF calls for memory items, and the thrust lever may be closed, depending on the situation. The PNF has time to analyze the instruments and decide if that step is necessary. The PF is still climbing the airplane to engine-out level-off altitude, which is only 300' higher in most cases. It will take the PNF about that long to fish out rhe QRH and find the correct page... The whole process is an exercise of good CRM (Cockpit Resource Management), which includes Crew as well as instruments and indications.

If the engine is indeed on fire, the timely reduction in fuel to the engine by closing the thrust lever may be the difference between saving the airplane or having the wing melt before getting it on the ground. In any of the other cases, the engine isn't putting out significant thrust any more, so closing the thrust lever will not have a significant effect on thrust available.

The checklists have been developed over many years, with a lot of learning through [bad] experience. Following the checklist in these situations, along with using the CRM taught in the sim, IS "Safe flying."