View Full Version : Question to LHR crews
At night when reds and greens are on, why do you stop when taxiying around the airfield when there is a red bar but happily cross them to line up on the departure runway? Yes you might be going on in the correct order but it seems a bit odd to me and others that you will happily cross a red stop bar to enter an active runway.
Not getting at you in any way, just we have recently had some paperwork on reducing runway incursions. This has brought the above into focus a little.
If you wonder why we dont give reds immediately for you on line up, come visit us in the dark and you will see how much workload there is at night when those lights are on.
Cheers
M.Mouse
28th Oct 2004, 14:06
I am LHR based and I don't cross red lights ever without asking. The system at LHR is excellent although I can imagine the increase in controller workload.
It might be noted that few airfields that I visit have or use such a switchable system.
TopBunk
28th Oct 2004, 15:08
GT3
Like MMouse says, the system works well and I can only think of LGW and SIN that use the same procedures [and I never cross a red!].
However, as 99% if the worlds airports manage without it and now that the block numbering system has disappeared I wonder if it is time to bin it for all but occasions of Low Vis perhaps.
It can cause delays and increased stress in its own right, as an example, waiting to cross from T4 for a 27R departure at the 23 intersection (S4B?). After the landing xxx cross and backtrack 23. The reds can't be given until the lander has passed, by which time the next is getting to about 500ft before the greens come up. Next thing the tower controller starts asking you to expedite. Without the requirement for greens we would have been across sooner.
Yellow Sun
28th Oct 2004, 16:14
M. Mouse wrote:
I am LHR based and I don't cross red lights ever without asking.
I second that, and endorse his comments.
YS
Gonzo
28th Oct 2004, 18:18
TopBunk.
Ok, I take argument about crossing 27L, and for us 27L arrivals at night is a very challenging position.
However, perhaps think about this.....
It's a crappy early morning. T4 is chokka. It's dark. You've been airborne for fourteen hours. You come off the runway to hear "Follow the greens". Tell me you'd rather have us reel off a load of taxiways.
Also, it's all or nothing. If you want to get rid of it during good weather at night, you have to get rid of it completely. It's a currency issue, both for us and the Lighting Operators.
TopBunk
29th Oct 2004, 02:51
Gonzo
It's a crappy early morning. T4 is chokka. It's dark. You've been airborne for fourteen hours. You come off the runway to hear "Follow the greens". Tell me you'd rather have us reel off a load of taxiways.
We do it everywhere else! What's the problem anyway, "turn left onto S and hold short of link 43, stand occupied" gives plenty of time to get out the taxi chart!
I take your point about the lighting panel positions being either manned always or never, I was just thinking outside the box as to whether they are actually needed at all. There is not much "nice to have" any more anywhere, only the basics usually.
BTW, how did the party go last night (to celebrate the tower moving from southside). Will look forward to seeing it in it's new position later this morning .....
Gonzo
29th Oct 2004, 07:41
TopBunk,
True. In the light of recent moves to cut down on runway incursions, I can't see SRG being happy it if was done away with.
About the new tower, I assume everything went ok because I've not heard anything different. I didn't go to the party due to a prior engagement. We'll see later today I guess!
Gonzo
29th Oct 2004, 15:32
Well, it didn't go ok. In fact, it was abandoned as they were running behind schedule and weren't sure they'd get it all done in time, or that's the story I hear. I think they're going to try again tonight.