View Full Version : loss of lift near ground

21st Oct 2004, 12:12
Lightning F3; Gnat; F-4 with stores; AW Argosy; HP Victor (welcome to Ascension!).

(The Jaguar suffered so much loss of lift near the ground that it never really wanted to leave it so I have left it out of the equation. But ...).

All featured in Boscombe Down lectures and were, as one might say, very prone to arrival con brio.

21st Oct 2004, 12:39

Now try again in English??

21st Oct 2004, 15:47
Is that a statement/question??

i'll have two of what he has had please...................

21st Oct 2004, 20:19
Gnat; F-4 with stores.....

Flew both of those and never 'arrived con brio'.

So WTF are you on about, Old Horseman?

22nd Oct 2004, 08:10
Cheers Beagle

Assumed (obviously wrongly) that certain wing configurations, and certain loads were known to require more care than might otherwise be expected in the landing config. One NASA report went into things in detail and although my copy has long been in the bin my card index still has its details. It was Robert K. Heffley and Wayne F. Jewell, "Aircraft Handling Qualities Data," NASA CR-2144, Dec. 1972. Obviously from your first-hand experience I see that I have been led somewhat up the garden path. It is good of you to put me right when I am wrong

22nd Oct 2004, 10:40
The only thing which made the Gnat a bit tricky was its narrow undercarriage track and the brake response valves which could make crosswind landings.........thought provoking.

The F4 was almost as easy as the Buccaneer to land (once the speed and AoA were right). You simply waited for Planet Earth to stop your descent. A tiny little tweak on the control column just before touchdown cushioned things a bit in the F4, but the Buccaneer's undercarriage compliance made no-flare touchdowns surprisingly comfy. Certainly much more so than you'd think if you ever watched one 'arrive'!

22nd Oct 2004, 20:15
Yeah, the F-4 did have a lot of wing area and the gnat was very small. I forgot how small. And narrow. But the Buccaneer had clever technology. I wonder if your surname is Browne? If so it was a nice machine.

22nd Oct 2004, 21:01
Me not Browne....

Gnat wingspan 24.0 ft, mean chord 7.3 ft
F4 wingspan 38.4 ft, mean chord 13.8 ft

22nd Oct 2004, 21:45
How about the H.S. Trident, didn.t that have the sobriquet of "The Gripper" ?