Eujet Loads

[rmo757]

Had a good friend of mine travel on eujet MSE-AMS 19oct and loads were less than 30 on the prime slot one.... tick.......?

[Havana]

Did they say how much they paid for each seat ?

25 people at XXX pounds would have paid for the flight

[Cyrano]

Havana:

You're quite right, but...

I did a little experiment.

I'd assume that a Friday flight would be (significantly) busier than a Tuesday flight.

I'd assume that by now (Thursday), virtually all the passengers who are going to fly tomorrow have booked, so the fare on offer for tomorrow morning's flight is about as high as it's going to get.

That said, eujet.com is quoting me £54.50 plus taxes for going out MSE-AMS tomorrow. I fear that 30 x £54.50 would barely cover the operating costs, let alone the overhead. And in practice, £54.50 is the highest (or nearly the highest) fare - the average will be a lot lower. I note that AMS-MSE next Wednesday (for example) is £7.00 plus tax.

The tradeoff with no-frills carriers is that the fare may be lower but the breakeven seat factor is higher. It's definitely not below 30%! Twice that (60%) would be more like it, I reckon (I'm being optimistic, allowing for the low ownership cost of the aircraft and the fact that typically, of the "taxes and charges" collected in addition to the basic fare, not all actually gets paid out in taxes and charges due to discounts).

C.

[Oshkosh George]

Yes,but ALL new routes have to start this way. Even Ryanair and easyJet probably had low uptakes initially,unless they were GIVING them away!

It's all down to advertising IMO,and they really have to saturate the newspapers,local radio,even TV. I don't know if this has been done.

[serko]

You also have to remember they are owned by Planestation who own Manston airport. Therefore the airport and the group as a whole profit from the landing fees charged on the tickets as well as from concessions(car parking/retail sales etc).

So even if Eujet make a slight loss this could be offset by the profit to Manston (not sure if Manston are making a profit on this deal I suppose that depends on the load factors as well).

But realistically you could have a point whereby the group profits more from 20,000 passengers paying £10 from a ticket than 10,000 paying £25 a ticket.

[The_Bean_Counter]

Using my many years of bean counting experience I'd say they are f**ked

[billyg]

I noticed that Wednesdays Manston-Glasgow afternoon flt was shared with Edinburgh and was EIGHT hours late arriving. Not looking good , is it?

[rmo757]

Have to agree with the bean on that one.......

[niknak]

Airline owned by airport given discounts on landing and passenger fees by airport owner who has a vested interest in them?

What would the EU commision have to say on the matter?;)

If EU Jet are still in business by the time it comes to the notice of the EU....

[serko]

They're not given discounts on landing fees though, but the landing fees could make the airport more profitable than Eujet is lossmaking so it could be a good deal for the company.

[Jamesair]

My understanding is that the EU would only become involved if the airport is State owned or Local Authority owned.
As Manston is a privately owned airport I think they are free to offer whatever subsidies they choose.

[Boss Raptor]

Have been on EUJET in last 6 weeks;

Madrid - 20ish pax out 17 pax. flight canx on return - see Pax & SLF forum

Dublin - midweek about 30 pax

AMS - midweek about 30 out, 45-50 back

[Jes]

This pm (Friday)

EUJ205 to Amsterdam 71
EUJ207 to Madrid 75

[DidItMyWay]

Average load factor varies widely, some routes under 10%, others over 70%.

[javier.mjv]

I work as flight dispacher at MJV, where Eujet fly from/to Shannon and Kent.
Today´s flight to SNN (EUJ318) 75 pax
Today´s flight to MSE (EUJ252) 61+03 pax
Incomming flights expected to be nearly full.

I do think there is a great differences among Eujet routes. I would say business routes (where there are, in my opinion two many frenquencies on some of them) loads are not very high, quite different from leisure destinations where loads are quite high.

Regards,

[Jes]

Thanks for the info, Javier.mjv. I think today's MSE-MJV has 2 seats unbooked.

What exactly are business and leisure routes?

The Faro and seaside routes: yes. What are Barcelona and Madrid? A bit of each, perhaps. Do they need to be served Monday to Friday?

Manchester and Edinburgh are doing very well, with both business and leisure traffic. Dublin and Amsterdam are a bit patchier, with better loads around weekends. Prague is getting a Friday flight in December, putting it up to 5 a week. Nice stays at 4. Glasgow midday: is that business?

Does a "business" destination require a service every weekday? I believe that Madrid and Barcelona flights could be thinned out to 3 per week each. Use the capacity to do extra sun services.

I forgot Jersey: what a dog!

[chipsbrand]

It might be a good idea if EUJet were to read Barbara Cassani's book about how he managed Go. That company only started to come good when they started the leisure routes.

[Jes]

I've just found some leisure routes on sale for next summer.

Manston to

Murcia Sun Tue Fri
Malaga Sun Mon Fri Sat(2!!)
Ibiza Wed Sat
Faro Mon Thu Sat

They must be reading the book.

[HZ123]

I did not know that Barbera had undergone a sex change op but that as well as 'GO' not bad. I imagine that EU will anyway have a plan as to what to expect over the first months or year. I am a little suprised that they to my knowledge have not undertaken any national advertising just to get the name in feature. There may be people in Kent that still have no knowledge of this newish operation.

[serko]

HZ123,

I think that as what the seat sale was for according to the EUjet management they think word of mouth and repeat business will come from that promotion. It's probably cheaper than a national advertising campaign as well.

[Jes]

I'll stick with this thread rather than resurrect EUjet Routes.

Further examination of the website reveals more flights f/t SNN.

Aircraft utilisation is as follows

Sun 06.30 start to Faro and return, then Ibiza and return at 19.45

Tue 06.30 start to Murcia and return at 13.15

Wed 06.30 start to Malaga arr 10.30 dep 18.30 return at 20.45

Thu 06.30 start to Faro and return at 13.25

Sat 12.00 start to Murcia and return, then Malaga and return at 01.15 Sun

Any ideas what the planes will be doing at other times, particularly at Malaga in the Wed gap? The weekends will presumably be covered as now, by positioning from/to Manston.

[bish-bash]

You all seem to be forgetting that this is half term week in Kent, if you cannot put bums on seats this weekend, when can you, i think that the telling times for EUJET will be the next few months, it may be a cold long winter for them.

As for advertising, just pick up a copy of the Kent Messenger and look at their full page ads, or listen to the radio coverage on KM-FM or Rado Kent, the people of Kent are well aware of their presence at MSE.

[Jes]

This weekend's loadings

SAT

MSE PRG 66
PRG MSE 37
MSE FAO 99
FAO MSE 29
MSE DUB 65
DUB MSE 41
MSE MJV 105
MJV MSE 61
SNN MJV 99
MJV SNN 75
SNN AGP 104
AGP SNN 72
MSE EDI 64
EDI MSE 46
MSE JER 51
JER MSE 32
MSE PMI 80
PMI MSE 49
MSE AGP 112 (737)
AGP MSE 45 (737)

SUN

MSE MJV 91
MJV MSE 58
MSE MAD 81
MAD MSE 41
MSE EDI 73
EDI MSE 73
MSE FAO 71
DUB MSE 31
MSE GRO 96
GRO MSE 32
MSE DUB 67
DUB MSE 59
SNN FAO 102
FAO MSE 39
SNN MSE 38
MSE MAN 51
MAN MSE 71
MSE AGP 90
AGP MSE 67
MSE PRG 60
PRG MSE 49
MSE NCE 78
NCE MSE 32
MSE AMS 56
AMS MSE 54

[king cotton]

Jes'

Impressive indeed , but to be fair on the other end : MSE - GRO of Oct. 19th had only 6 pax on a 2 hrs sector, " a VIP flight at low cost price " , let alone the ton of ballast that we fly around Europe coz of poor load.....I bet you the shingle start feeling VIP too !!!!
But if I'm impressed with this weekend's figures let me tell you that I am quit concern with the punctuality and the never ending saga of technical defects of Eujet Fleet.

Pax vobiscum.

[serko]

"the revised services that are booking NOW. Programme starts on Sunday
27th March.

Faro
Mon dep 10.50 return 17.15
Thu ditto
Sat dep 13.55 return 20.20

Ibiza
Wed dep 10.20 return 13.35
Sat dep 09.30 return 14.45

Malaga
Sun dep 06.15 return 12.25
Mon ditto
Fri ditto
Sat ditto
Sat dep 15.15 return 21.25

Murcia
Sun dep 06.00 return 11.25
Tue dep 09.55 return 15.20
Fri dep 10.55 return 17.20

Despite all the negative stuff that's around, it looks as though the
leisure routes are doing well. 5 Malaga flights a week! Incredible.

"

[Thomas_Jaeger]

I really wonder whether it's wise to start Ibiza by the end of March as the season only starts in June or so, but I have not been particularly impressed with their network decisions anyway as it was pretty obvious that all other low-cost carriers flying from UK regional airports were mainly doing well on leisure routes and not on routes like Milan (which failed for Flybe., bmibaby etc.) or Copenhagen. I am not really surprised to see them concentrating on the leisure business, maybe they should have a look at some CAA figures from other airports in order to get the frequencies right (e.g. Ibiza in April :))

[PBD 1]

There were times (15 months ago) when I flew to Bergamo with Ryanair, Fly-be, Jet2 and BMI baby from the U.K. and was told at check-in that the flight was 98% full ;)

[Buster the Bear]

Jes, from your passenger figures above, load factors are averaging at 60% for a school holiday weekend!

To survive, the industry norm is 'more than 80%' begins to make a profit.

http://whipsnade.co.uk/picturelibrary/jpeg150/br/brown_bear_120_wide.jpg

[serko]

They carried 13605 passengers to/from Manston in September.

[Buster the Bear]

At an 80% (Break even) load factor that is.....103 flights in Sept? So if EU flew more than 3.5 single flights per day in Sept, they could be assumed to be losing money, fact?

http://whipsnade.co.uk/picturelibrary/jpeg150/br/brown_bear_120_wide.jpg

[serko]

Buster,

It's not as simple as all that, I'm not convinced break even is 80%. The management seem to think it's a bout 50%(based on press statements). Also as I've already pointed out a loss making eujet can be funded by planestation if the passenger numbers mean the airport is running at a profit.

[The Real Slim Shady]

Ý have it on pretty good authority that they need bookings of around 3000 pax per day to make it work: however that may not take in to account any cross subsidy from the parent.

Also heard that one F100 was impounded at MXP last week pending resolutýon of outstanding litigation. Anyone know anything about that??

[serko]

considering their daily seat capacity is only 2808 seats I'd be highly surpisied if they needed 3000 seats filled a day to break even.

[chipsbrand]

serko is wrong. They probably need 3500 bookings per day to break even when their production is 2800 seats perday. seems like they are asking the drain how much it wants poured down it.

[Buster the Bear]

Can an airport cross subsidise an airline, even if they own it?

The airline can make a loss if the airport makes a profit! I hope the losses of the airline are less than the profit of the airport!

Now the (Not) sensible thing for another lo-co is to start routes from Manston to the same destinations as EU and get the same ' financial assistance'!

50% break even, bear's do not believe fairy tales!

http://whipsnade.co.uk/picturelibrary/jpeg150/br/brown_bear_120_wide.jpg

[The Real Slim Shady]

Sorry Serko obviously my source was wrong, but with 5 F100s all configured in 108Y that would suggest a total of 1080 seats available per rotation.

4 rotations per day 4320 available seats and 3000 bookings per day would be a load factor of about 70%.

Even accounting for the jet which has been impounded, the leased in 737 more than covers those 'lost' seats.

[lightbluetouchpaper]

Can an airport cross subsidise an airline, even if they own it?

They can cross subsidise for as long as their share-holders (or creditors?) can stand it.

With Ryanair/Charleroi the problem was that the airport is owned by the state, and it is unfair state subsidies to business that the EU gets worried about.

Unless a private company is engaged in predatory pricing with the intention of putting another company out of business, then the competition authorities aren’t too fussed about what the private sector gets up to.

Not only do the owners of Manston have no obligation to be even handed in offering subsidies to other operators (charter, full service, lo-co or whatever) – if they thought it would threaten the viability of EUJET, they are quite within their rights to say no to anyone else who wants to fly there.

[dinsdale]

Shares in the owners of Manston rose 15% or so today and according to AFXF London shares - closing features the reason was
"Advanced passenger sales at EUjet looking good"

[loveJet]

cool, that sounds encouraging...

does anyone have any inside knowledge of forward bookings? or current load factors???

Jet

[bish-bash]

Have a look on planestations website, www.planestation.com, there's a nice graph showing the pax load figure projections for eujet, i guess September was sale time, hence the large jump in sales.

[serko]

bish-bash,

september was the first month of operation for eujet. The £1 sea sale was for travel between november and march. Around 50,000 seats were sold during this promotion.

[gayrugbybloke]

I do believe that a few of the EUJ services in to MAN last week had the massive load total of 0.

Ooops...I'll give it til Christmas!!

[foamer]

Gayrugbybloke


`Ooops...I'll give it til Christmas!!`


From what I can see from my window I'll take that bet.

[serko]

Foamer,

what can you see from your window?

[foamer]

More foamers for 2005/2006

[serko]

Foamer,

Care to elaborate?

[foamer]

10 more permanent foamers employed to give EUjet RFFS category six.

EUjet are the only operator in this RFFS category at KIA.

Cost of training new foamers £100,000.

New appliance for 2005 at £365,000. (for EUjet)

Obviously Planestation own EUjet, not an investment that would be made without 8 of the new routes being secured.

[serko]

do you know what the new routes are?

[foamer]

I can’t see the whole picture from my window, only some small bits.

[Leodis]

Why not counter the Jet2 move from Manchester into Gatwick with a service to Leeds, sure to be a winner!

[billygoat]

Leodis

With an IQ like yours you should apply for mastermind.

Not bad for a first post Billy, just so long as you stick to friendly banter please. Thanks.

[TOPJET973K]

Hello everybody

Reading with interest about EU JET, I read? on another forum that EU were planning to introduce a Manston-Newcastle-Shannon, is that right?

Always fancied Shannon for a couple of days but other than flying yourself in a club aircraft it is a nightmare to get to from Newcastle - (NCL-STN with EZY then STN-SHN or SHA with RYANAIR)

Hope that route becomes reality only if its for a few weeks.

Cheers Gang.

[Jes]

Looks as if the Palma route is suspended, restarting on 12th Feb.

Turin is dropped completely.

[TRon]

Sounds like another DUO to me, without the 'subtle' advertising!

[serko]

Jes,

I did a dummy booking for Turin on the 22nd of October and it was showing as available, maybe the plane was full on the day you tried. :rolleyes:

[Jes]

Turin full, Serko...?

I've had another look this morning, and Turin is now on till 26th Feb: the site did not show this yesterday. Palma does not restart untill the 12th February.

[Jes]

Turin now only 12th and 19th Feb this winter.
Toulouse up to 8th Jan, then 5th to 26th Feb only
Jersey is cancelled for the rest of the winter timetable.

[Gerbils]

Foamer says:

"EUjet are the only operator in this RFFS category at KIA."

Aren't EUjet the only operator at Manston?

[Jamesair]

Planestation shares took a dive last week on traffic worries. I hope things pick up soon.

[serko]

jamesair,

planestation shares fell because planning permission was refused for a racecourse they want to build in Farilop. nothing to do with eujet.

[serko]

they're doing a 2 for 1 offer. on all flights between 1st of December and 31st of January. An attempt to get more bums on seats over the winter months.

[serko]

passenger figures are now out, just under 26,000

http://www.planestation.com/projects/passengers0105-oct04.html

p.s. these are the figures for Kent airport, where eujet is the only operator so i'm presuming most of these are eujet. They do not however include figures for Shannon.

[smallpilot]

I'm surprised nobody else has commented...
Planestation group (owner of Manston and big shareholder in EUjet) shares fell over 50% today after they announced their interim results. Vague talk about possibly having to raise further capital, possibly in the form of a further share issue.

[serko]

from an EUjet point of view they said.

"I am particularly pleased to report that following the
acquisition of our shareholding in EU-JetOps Ltd ('EUjet') in May the airline started operations from Kent International Airport - Manston on 1 September and passenger volumes since that time have grown significantly with month on month improvements in both load factors and yields. Over the first thirteen weeks of
operation some 71,000 have flown the airline with bookings of 151,000 seats thus far."

[VIKING9]

serko I get the impression that you work for EUjet going on the posts you make. Answer this in your opinion:

EUjet to stay scheduled or switch to charter ? :ok:

[serko]

viking9,

I don't work for eujet, just want to see the airline make a go of things from Manston.

so from that point of view I'm not in a good place to see if they will switch back to chartered. I don't think they will last long at sahnnon what with the Ryanair competition and the fact that the headquarters are moving to Manston measn there is no good reason to stay. I'd expect the Shannon base to be transferred to another planestation airport in the future. Lahr if it gets it's passenger licens otherwise, Pilsen, Parchim or Odense.

[bish-bash]

From todays Telegraph business pages, also on thier website,

Airport operator calls for cash refuel

The future of PlaneStation, the owner of Manston Airport in Kent and EUjet, came into question yesterday when the company admitted it did not have enough cash to keep operating and needed to raise at least £17m from investors.



Shares in the company halved to 20½p - they have been as high as 600p - as investors baulked at the bad news included in the company's interim results statement.

The company's pre-tax loss grew from £5.4m to £8.6m, revenue fell from £4.5m to £4.4m and the amount of cargo passing through the airport fell 33pc.

PlaneStation also revealed it spent £2.1m supporting EUjet, a new Irish airline run by PJ McGoldrick, the former chief executive of Ryanair. Plane‐Station owns 30pc and plans to buy the other 70pc in the next few months for €1 (69p).

Martin May, chief executive, announced plans to raise £17m through a sale of shares to institutions, and if there is demand, £5m through a sale to retail investors. An offer document is scheduled to be published in two weeks, and an extraordinary general meeting is set for three weeks later to authorise the capital raising and purchase of EUjet.

"If we can't raise the money we will have to do asset sales, and that would potentially destroy shareholder value," Mr May said. "That reaction [in the share price] is really because people don't understand the dynamics of this business."

PlaneStation, formerly Wiggins Group, aims to build up EUjet and fly 880,000 passengers from Kent next year.

Mr May said he had cut the annual cash costs from £7.4m to £4m, and a bank loan due on December 31 had been extended by three years.

Shareholders hit by yesterday's fall included Prudential, Artimus, Legal & General and Schroders.

Mr May was this week named turnaround professional of the year for his work at scaffolder Cape, which he took from a share price below 10p to above 100p.


PlaneStation



draw your own views over this i guess, but it looks like planestations future rides on eujet to me.
















.

[The_Bean_Counter]

bish-bash I suspect your conclusions are the same as mine

Some more factual data on their CAA published load factors for October

Amsterdam 34%
Dublin 35%
Edinburgh 37%
Faro 39%
Gerona 26%
Glasgow 25%
Jersey 25%
Madrid 30%
Malaga 54%
Manchester 32%
Murcia 51%
Nice 29%
Palma 58%
Prague 38%
Shannon 31%

So apart from Malaga, Murcia and Palma there is no prospect of any route working

Any investor giving them £22, let alone £22M needs their head examined, pj escapes again

[dinsdale]

Bean Counter
for the less web aware amongst us can you provide the link to those figures from CAA
many thanks

[brabazon]

Dinsdale

Here's the link to the CAA Airport Statistics in which you will find both domestic and international traffic, however, the latest data is for August 2004, so I'm not sure where Bean Counter's got his from.....

http://www.caa.co.uk/erg/erg_stats/sgl.asp?sglid=3

[The_Bean_Counter]

They come from the CAA in electronic format, distributed to bean counters in all airlines contributing to the CAA information pool. The CAA dont update the website on a timely basis.

You will have to take my word for it until the actual stats appear but I can assure you they are real.

[The Real Slim Shady]

Well it was raised internally over a year ago and repeated regularly - the writing was spray painted on the wall in big letters and ignored. The initial investment has been recouped.

The crews had a spread bet on the company lasting until Xmas - most pessimistic was September. Now with the pilots who aren't bonded are all strapping on their parachutes or reaching for the balck and yellow handle it does look the light at the end of the tunnel is the 9.40 coming the other way.

Such a pity that all the hard work that went in to starting the company was wasted. C'est la vie.

[VIKING9]

It's feasable also that very soon, one of EUjet's aircraft will have something parked in front of it to stop it departing. Load factors are very low as we have seen and the 2 for 1 sale is a tell tale sign that they just cannot get bums on seats.

PJ will still walk away smiling - he always does. Its the others who are left behind crying - those others are those who actually do the work.

Watch this space..........

[Jes]

Is it FEASIBLE that Ryanair are in trouble, as they're giving away free seats, the two for one offer having ended?

The vultures are circling.

[foamer]

Today I was given the summer schedule and requested to extend RFFS times into the night for late arrivals.

Announcement to be made next week that funding has been placed by backers.

[Twitcher]

VIKING9....Is it likely that the airport will prevent its own airline from making a revenue flight for itself by blocking it in? :rolleyes:

[VIKING9]

It's entirely possible if they are losing money at the rate they appear to be. What about other suppliers, fuellers, caterers, cleaners etc - are they all owned by Planestation ? I doubt it.

Jes Ryanair can afford to give away seats at the rate they do. 70% of their profits don't actually come from seat sales, it's all the add ons......hotels, car hire, credit cards, onboard sales etc

[jamesbrownontheroad]

Apologies for really stretching bad news (because of course, the fat lady hasn't sung yet, she's still just clearing her throat...)

The loads are bad, the finances are worse and the basic premise of an airline based at Manston flying a fleet of Fokkers on a lo-co model was always shakey.

It's feasable also that very soon, one of EUjet's aircraft will have something parked in front of it to stop it departing.


Bad idea - no-one walks away from EUJet unscathed if that happens. So, forgive me for assuming the worst, but what is a feasable plan to wind up operations, and when would we expect d-day?

*j*

[FLYING-FODDER]

WELL EU-JET FINALLY DID THE SENSIBLE THING AND PULLED OFF THE MSE-JER ROUTE IT WAS A BAD IDEA TO START IT ANYWAY WHICH WAS MADE WORSE BY THE TIME OF YEAR. THEY HAVE GOT TO BE THE WORST AIRLINE I HAVE ENCOUNTERED. THEY DIDN'T INFORM THE HANDLING AGENT UNTIL THE DAY BEFORE THEIR WEEKLY FLIGHT. BUT HEY WITH REGULAR LOADS OF JUST 10-20 PAX IT WASN'T GOING TO BE A PROBLEM RE-BOOKING THEM!!!

[surely not]

Did you have to shout that Fodder??

Why do some people on here take such delight in an airline struggling? Ok it didn't seem to be the best airport to operate from, nor were the Fokkers an ideal size (even if they were cheap to acquire), but if it does fold there will be real people finding themselves out of a job. If it happens either side of Christmas that would be even worse.

However, if people always stayed on the safe side of life nothing would ever change. It is necessary to occassionally fly in the face of accepted wisdom to find out if accepted wisdom is flawed. I doubt that any of the staff of EU Jet were blind to the precarious nature of the venture, but they took a view that it was worth a try and suited their immediate needs, be that getting jet hours on the licence, command hours, first job as Cabin Crew etc etc.

It isn't over yet, and they took the decision to launch in the slack months so it seems reasonable that things can only get better for them. One good part of launching in the slack months is that they have gained a lot of experience of the operation whilst affecting not too many people, therefore if the summer months do provide a boom period there is more chance of the airline offering a smooth performance to a greater number of passengers.

I was amongst those who thought the plan to operate from KIA was flawed, but then in days gone by I never thought Stansted would catch on either. For the sake of those working for EU Jet I wish them survival and good fortune in the future. If it does go wrong, I shan't be gloating, I shall be sad for them.

[HZ123]

Well said S N ; I can only hope that the many contributors that have commented on this thread do not work for EU as the remarks are so negative. Such attitude is usually found at LHR. Lets hope that EU jet survive and deserve too taking on a new airport and routes.

[king cotton]

SN & HZ

***********************************
I can only hope that the many contributors that have commented on this thread do not work for EU .
***********************************
And ..........!!!!

What if they are ?!?
are going to deny them the right to voice their opinion!!!

Yes, they're a wee bunch of very good lass & lads highly motivated who deserve respect .

Pax Vobiscum !

[nclairportfan]

I too wish eujet every success. Other small airlines have survived the LCC boom such as flybe, air south west and air wales.

Let's hope they manage to survive in this very competitive environment.

[airhumberside]

EU Jet haven't had the easiest of launches. They launched at the end of summer, after the peak season, that is income would have been helpful this summer. It also wont help that PlaneStation don't have much cash

I wouldn't really compare them to Flybe, Air Southwest or Air Wales as they operate more domestically, though Flybe are expanding more and mre into Europe

Good luck EU Jet

[surely not]

Hey King Cotton, can you King read????? If you can find the part of my post which suggests that EuJet employees shouldn't post on here then please quote it!!

I was merely pointing out that some posters seemed to get enjoyment from an airline struggling to survive. No problem in people posting about the difficulties of an airline or airport, but perhaps the almost gleeful tone in some threads could be avoided.

[PBD 1]

Well what can I say?......... I know without any shadow of a doubt that at EUjet both past and present I have been fortunate enough to work with some of the most hard working and dedicated people I have Known. Its true its not perfect by any stretch of the imagination however there is not one person who has left the company who i dont intend staying in touch with, there is not one person who I dont look forward to working with. The only people that dont use my first name are ATC (Im sure they would if they could.) Reporting for duty is where people meet their friends... period. Please remember EUjet has been operating well before 1st September this year...First commercial flight 1st June 03 I think. The routes that were not working were chopped common sence to me but bad news for booked pax. I hear a rumour that santa is coming early for EUjet this year possibly this Wednesday!! Slim, stay in touch, regards to Shaft and Slide-rule. :)

[surely not]

PBD 1, I hope your Christmas present lasts a long time and brings all of you great happiness.

It doesn't need batteries does it? :D

[Pornking]

Just read in a dutch newspaper that EU-jet is in financial trouble and that the airport would like to buy the rest of the shares which will cost them around 30.000.000. They are looking for investors but it's gonna be tough.

[Jes]

PK,
Please stop producing smut, and have a look at a thread before posting.

[Cyrano]

The CAA posts "provisional" statistics (i.e. latest months' statistics, not yet fully verified) in a separate part of their site (look under "Airport Provisional Statistics" on the ERG page). The October international passenger numbers are here. (http://www.caa.co.uk/docs/80/airport_data_prov/200410/October_2004_Provisional_International_Routes.pdf) This doesn't give capacity, just pax numbers.

[FLYING-FODDER]

Apologies for the 'shouting' was tired and didn't realise caps was on. I do wish eu-jet all the best as most airlines deserve to do well. However one does wonder what posessed them to launch at the time of year they did.

[Mike16]

Hi



I was on the FAO on sunday, and the eujet came in, and we counted only 10 people getting of, onto the coach!
When the coach came back with the new passengers they only had 13.......
This is a bit bad.

[Copenhagen]

13 passengers to on a stage length as long as Faro is really very poor... I thought that it was these leisure routes that were performing well.

What ever possessed an unknown airline to commence operations from an unknown airport at the end of the peak season is beyond me.

Perhaps its time for EuJet to re-think their sales techniques and hub airport of choice.

[VIKING9]

.......and get back in to charter work instead. Ah ha, winter = ski charters :ok:

[Nakata77]

COPENHAGEN

I really agree with you. You took the words right out of my own mouth.

They must be bleeding big time, any ideas how much they have lost since operations began?

[whoseurpaddy]

Well, well, well....

It's great to see that my Friends above have taken the aggregate of all loads to date on the Faro route (and all the sun routes), done a careful mathematical and statistical analysis and deduced the state of the loads ;-)

Come on guys: you really will have to do better than that! You used one flight!! Yup, aint the best load in the world for sure, but there has been far better! I bet the same source at FAO would not be so quick or happy to tell you when he sees the coaches go full (and there have been some pretty full coaches apparently!)

Do you really think Sleazyjet and Ryanair etc go out with completely full flights every day? Equally, there would seem to be a line of thinking on here that suggests every airline makes massive profits from day one. Anyone who has actually worked in this business should know that is very much not the case. Dont believe the hype emanating from certain low cost quarters that "all our new routes have been succesful from day one"... they may have shown promise from day one, but all of them making money straight off? Puhleeze....... FR for example are still using the massive profits made from they're original Ireland-UK routes to subsidize much of the new European Network until it has established itself, whether Ryanair like to admit or not. Or perhaps we could mention the fact that Sleazy has often made a loss during the winter programme?

Give these guys a chance! No, they are not getting 100% loads on everything straight off (although there have been a few individual flights), but dont write them off just yet! And for gods sake, please drop the tones of joy so evident when someone posts what they perceive as bad news on here.. (and i'm not accusing the two posters above as being responsible for this)

Remember that EUjet is staffed with people who like all of us have to feed themselves.. dont delight in the fact that you feel they may lose their jobs!

Rant over...!:)

[airhumberside]

According to ch-aviation EU Jet will give up Manston - Jersey and start Manston-Cologne in March

[Mike16]

Hi


Well i do Fao quite often well once a week or probably once a fortnight, and to be honest i have never seen a Eujet plane there, i asked our flight deck who they were etc, we were amazed at how many passengers had got of and got on.
Like anyone would, we fly faro daily and our loads are very healthy in comparison.
That particular day our loads were 132/128+2 , i don't think that is bad, to be honest this is a quiet time for us as we had a busy season on fao this year, by the way we use 737-300.
I am not calling them, like i say, i had never heard of them till Sunday just gone!
Well i am on Fao on sunday coming and i will watch carefully them carefully, all one by one :D

[foamer]

Yesterday an announcement was made to the Stock Exchange confirming that, subject to shareholder approval at an Extraordinary General Meeting (EGM) to be held in January, a total of £30 million of new capital has been raised.

The new funds will be used to support both the Airport and the Airline until such time as they come into profit

Merry xmas and a happy new year to EUJet.

[VIKING9]

Just out of interest, how can EUjet manage to raise "another" £30m and yet an airline like NOW couldn't ? Different business plans I know, fixed pricing does work so it wasn't that which stopped them getting finance.....:ugh:

[Copenhagen]

This is Planestations second emergency funds application in less than twelve months. Their share price has fallen from 41p on December 1st to 12p on December 16th.

With shareholders abandoning the company faster than new entrants (witnessed by the drop in share price) I wonder what that the chances of getting the funding are.

Their Bankers have also announced that they will withdraw their overdraft facility if this share offering is not successful.

The future of EuJet will be known by January 13th it seems.

[serko]

£25million of the new funds are definite as long as existing shareholders agree to the placing. Which is 99.9999% certain to happen as the company will be declared insolvent if the placing does not happen.

[Nakata77]

this is for whoseurpaddy

I like ur style but u seem to lack an understanding of the differences between LCC and traditional carriers.

If LCC are leaving with even the odd flight at 25% loads, there is something wrong. The worst loads should hover around 45-55%. Even then they are bleeding badly. With a F100, this is only exaserbated.

Traditional carriers, yes they build up loads over time, very often loads are low, and profit in the first couple of years in unlikely.

The point of LCC's is quick returns, if a route isnt profitable within 6 months or at least contributing it will never grow to profit.

EUJet is a LCC but has a passenger flow of a traditonal carrier. This isn't sustainable. However if its true £30m is being oumped into them they will last a little longer, but how unreasonable! There is so much poverty in the world, and the only reason people want EUJet to survive is not based on economics, its based on ego and wanting to see planes at Manston.

Sorry if im a little harsh

[Copenhagen]

Serko - Investors have already lost millions on their planestation investments - why would they want to pour good money after bad?

If I was a shareholder, I wouldnt be putting more money into a company that is basically insolvent. Their bankers dont even see a future.

At this stage the company is probably worth more for its assets rather than as a going concern.

[The_Bean_Counter]

I would have to agree with Copenhagen. Any bean counter would tell you not to invest, let it collapse and hope to pick up a payment from the insolvency process. Good money after bad is the phrase.

[serko]

expansion of routes for eujet

new routes Cologne Budapest, Alicante, Seville, Valencia, Newcastle and Belfast

[FireFoxDown]

And out of Shannon new routes include Ibiza and Palma de Mallorca.

[The_Bean_Counter]

November Load Factors from the CAA

Overall 37% up 3% from Octobers 34%

Amsterdam 38%
Barcelona 35%
Dublin 41%
Edinburgh 39%
Faro 38%
Gerona 28%
Glasgow 35%
Jersey 13%
Madrid 37%
Malaga 45%
Manchester 33%
Murcia 47%
Nice 29%
Prague 41%
Shannon 51%

[Nakata77]

we know eujet is doomed.... just look at the loads. wouldnt it be better to have given the money to the disaster appeal and allow eujet to fizzle out

[Copenhagen]

Those load factors are simply terrible. I wonder how many of those bookings were on a 2 for 1 rate?

Even my High Yield airline has far higher loads than that.
Have Planestation actually got the money from the shareholders yet. The closing date is January 13th. I have a funny feeling the money wont materialise.

[Jes]

I've just had a look at some Ryanair load factors: calculated by me

November

Prestwick-Niederrhein 33% very new route
Stansted-Niederrhein 59% running for a year or so

Both with lots of cheap offers etc

It takes time to build routes

[Stampe]

Well I live locally to Manston and hear nothing but good of EU jet and Manston.I fly for a UK charter carrier and several colleagues are now using EU jet for positioning round the UK with very positive results.A brave venture definitely thinking outside the conventional box.I wish them well and hope they have a good summer period having cut their teeth in the winter period.Pity they are not on the Uk register but thats the only thing that concerns me about them.Lets hope they are a success in spite of all the negativity that is banded about on this site.

[Runway 31]

Hi Jes,

While I agree with the jist of your post, I think your calculation regarding Prestwick-Niederrhein are wrong.

The CAA gives the number of pasengers as 3567 which as the services started 8/11, I make this to be 41%.

[befree]

it is still very early days.
The Planestation £30m is underwitten so is likely to happen.
It must be a 50-50 gamble.
If they can gain another 3% each month then they will pull it off.
Its a feedback system so higher loads will build confidance and so higher loads. on the other hand if they are still empty at the end of May then they are toast.

I think we should give them a chance by not righting them off yet.
It been a bad time to start but that can bread strength. The losers will be the early shareholders. They will be paying for people to fly for the next year or so.

Good luck

[VIKING9]

Maybe they should keep a F100 up their sleeve for ad-hoc charters, bring in extra revenue.......

[Sharjah Night Shift]

Unlike some of the negative posters on this site who will not consider flying anything other than Big Airways from Heathrow at their companies expense or on staff travel I would like to see EUjet survive.

I live in SE London and Manston is further from my home than any of the three BAA airports. However as public transport is a complete non starter for getting to the airport for an early flight Manston gives me the fastest front door to check in time and the cheapest parking. Hopefuly a few more people will wake up to the fact that there is an alternative to the BAA shopping centers with remote and expensive car parks.

[Jes]

Runway 31

You're correct.

[PBD 1]

Well what can I say?........exept a very big thank you to some of the guys providing positive posts recently about eujet and its ops out of KIA. Certainly on some of the flights over the Christmas period the loads could NOT have been any better, regardless of what the passengers were paying for their tickets many of the holiday period flights were well, well above average. Nakata77 "wouldn`t it have been better to have given money to the disaster appeal and allow eujet to fizzle out". Im not quite sure if I would have been capable of discusing the survival of over 150,000 humans or the survival eujet in the same breath, let alone the same sentence..... .....but ive managed it! In addition posts in the past have included statements along the lines of " unreliable, tired old F100s" I can only assume that this is a dig at KLM engineering the pilots or the aircraft type? Thankfully in accordance with sops the MEL and others I writes in the big thick book! Problems aside.. give us a chance. Nice people here, we get free parking 2 mins from the A/C crew food and drinks too!

[Nakata77]

nicely put... well u convinced me then... definately worth £42m

:ok:

[matching]

At last some positive comments;

Reading the usual postings one would conclude that there is no appreciation for people who stick their neck out, spend their own money and employ people like me.
It easy to knock other peoples efforts but I wonder what the majority of the complainers have done in their lives at generating jobs for pilots or anyone else?

It would seam to me that some people would take delight in a EUjet failure, for my part I am thankful that there is people who are prepared to try new things.

We will succeed!

[glynn-kayes]

I wish eujet all the best.I have seen the check in queue at manchester for the early flight and could see there were at lease 70 people in it.I really hope the bfs service does well but i think an evening service needs to be added to and from bfs as well.I also think an snn to bfs service shoud re commence.

[FireFoxDown]

Well said Matching! It's unfortunate, but there are a lot of begrudgers in this industry . . .

[ATRGUY]

May be they buy RE in Irlande. Take the EURO 19m from Irlande people. Can make JAR for RE? They can make JAR145 for RE mess. Take EURO 19m.

[The_Bean_Counter]

Latest numbers from the CAA for December overall load factor up a further 2% points from November to 39%.

Amsterdam 32%
Barcelona 36%
Dublin 42%
Edinburgh 45%
Faro 24%
Geneva 41%
Glasgow 41%
Madrid 35%
Malaga 42%
Manchester 39%
Murcia 51%
Nice 29%
Prague 48%
Salzburg 37%
Shannon 46%
Toulouse 29%
Zurich 26%

[Nakata77]

Loads have been pretty bad across all airlines this December, especially for Flybe at Southampton. With this in mind EUJet do seem to be doing satisfactorilly.

Dublin from Kent International seems to be doing very well... I believe the load factors averaged almost 50% on this route. What capacity are u using bean_counter??

On the other hand, routes like Faro shouldnt be operated at 24% through the winter. Far too low to even encourage growth - i can't see it jumping up 40% any time soon.

[chipsbrand]

I was down in AGP last week and saw the EU Jet flight being operated by a Flightline 146. Not many people on board either.

[GW76]

Would you want to be going to AGP with this weather forecast ?http://www.bbc.co.uk/weather/5day.shtml?world=4610&links :)

[Buster the Bear]

Nakata77 said "Loads have been pretty bad across all airlines this December, especially for Flybe at Southampton. With this in mind EUJet do seem to be doing satisfactorilly."

In December 580,507 passengers passed through Luton up a massive 26.4% This was done with only an increase of 15.5% in ATM's to 5224.

Sadly Nakata77 your comments are in just one case, wildly inaccurate.

40% average load factor in December for EUJet is simply shocking! How long will the banks subsidse this loss making organisation?

http://whipsnade.co.uk/picturelibrary/jpeg150/br/brown_bear_120_wide.jpg

[Nakata77]

my coments regard regional routes:

bmibaby at Teeside 45% on some routes
bmibaby at Cardiff 55%
Jet2 Leedsbradford Palma 35%
Flybe Southampton Bergerac 40%


London is obviously a different concern,if loads were at those above in London they wouldn't last a season.

[PTH needs tarmac]

Nakata77,

I can't speak for your other examples but you are a bit off with the LBA-PMI Jet2 route

During December there were only 2 flights a week (Tu + Sa) and 1771 pax carried. Plus Christmas Day was a Saturday so no flight.

Capacity: 148x2x7=2072

therefore,

load factor 1771/2072=85%

Not bad at all. LBA-PRG managed it's best load of the year at 90%.

PTH

Edited for error over lack of Christmas Day flight

[JobsaGoodun]

I would also add to PTH's post that the Flybe figure is not really that good for comparison.....Bergerac at 40% (I question the figure) on a Q400 will still lose far less money than MSEAGP on a F100. (The Q400 break even is about 30seats at average fare)

It would have been better to compare all regional flights to AGP. This would be a far better comparison. Somehow I very much doubt that Flybe's SOUAGP was anywhere near 40%. It would have been much higher.

[10 DME ARC]

Going slightly off thread but, flybe's SOU-NCL is doing very well Nov/Dec load factors were in the 80%'s!
As for Easy's AGP well that must be in the high 80% if not 90%'s for December!
:)

[Copenhagen]

Its easy to find one bad route on an airline, as demonstrated above.

But when an entire route network is performing dismally, as demonstrated by the EUjet data above that questions are being asked. One or two routes are showing promise, but that does not make an airline. For an easy comparison, look at Buzz.

December is usually a stronger month for travel when compared to November. Jan and Feb are the weakest months, so I wonder where EUJet will be load factor wise this time next Month.

[Cargo]

They must be bleeding cash at present. Even the weaker of the European Lo-Cos can manage 70%+ LFs in the depts of Winter with 150-190 seater a/c. EUjet need to take drastic action now on their network or they won't see a S05. Can anyone put approx corresponding yields to these Dec LF figures per route?

How big are their pockets and how much appetite do they have for this business?

[PBD 1]

Oh dear........here we go again!.............zzzzzzzzzzzzzzz.:hmm:

[caa19]

daft question maybe, but wondering where you get your stats from given that ERG stats for Dec 04 are provisional and by international route (assuming you then break it down by a/l and a/c type). where did you get the domestic data from, a/p or a/l direct?

[MarkD]

This is a (1) new airline with (2) its main operating base at a "new" (to Joe Public) airport in the (3) depths of winter.

If EUJet were not prepared for those three factors contributing to sub50% LF (by using aircraft at a costbase which permitted acceptable losses, i.e. FK100s acquired cheaply) then they are in trouble. Planestation have completed the buyout and installed a new CEO, they have to make it work or else the airport is doomed too - or else it will be bought at firesale by Tony Ryan or someone else and made FR's newest empire on the back of EUJet's trailblazing!

[Jes]

Well said MarkD!

From Canada you can see the issues clearly. Shame that many in Britain can't do the same.

[Jes]

Let's reinvigorate this thread!

Koeln has disappeared from the website: clearly bookings were poor.

[innuendo]

Mark D:
"Planestation have completed the buyout and installed a new CEO,"

Does that mean that PJ McG is no longer involved? Just curious, thanks.

[The_Bean_Counter]

Latest numbers from the CAA for January overall load factor down 7% from Decembers 39% to 32%.

Amsterdam 25%
Barcelona 30%
Dublin 30%
Edinburgh 32%
Faro 45%
Geneva 34%
Glasgow 37%
Madrid 27%
Malaga 45%
Manchester 30%
Murcia 47%
Nice 23%
Prague 35%
Salzburg 33%
Shannon 42%
Toulouse 19%
Zurich 24%

[Jes]

BC
Can you give a link for this, please?

[The_Bean_Counter]

Fraid not, see my response on page 5 of this thread

[loveJet]

im afraid with loads like this it isnt 2 routes they need to cut, its the whole damn programme. I assume Kent make no money from PLS/landing fees either? Guess the only money they make is from Car-parking and shopping. But that won't be able to subsidise costs of crew, fuel, leasing, atc, etc.

32% average loads means that all those pax are paying lowest fare. This is simply NOT sustainable.

[Jes]

Examination through Skyscanner reveals that Seville has been dropped, and Manchester loses its Mon-Fri pm service.

[Jamesair]

JES

The actual pax figures for January (except domestic) are now available on the CAA website.