Brize: "Plane passenger 'jumps to his death'"

[BossEyed]

Police are investigating the discovery of a body of a man, who is thought to have jumped from a light aircraft.
He was the passenger of a Cessna 172 plane which made a forced landing at RAF Brize Norton, Oxfordshire, after ice began to form on its wings.

But after safely bringing the craft down to earth, the woman pilot said her passenger, a man believed to be in his 40s, had jumped out minutes earlier.

The body was found lying in a field in the village of Fyfield, about eight miles from the aerodrome.

Passenger jumped

A spokesman for the Civil Aviation Authority said the aeroplane had been en-route to Hinton-in-the-Hedges, Northamptonshire, when the pilot asked for permission to divert from its route due to icing on the wings at about 1530 GMT on Tuesday.

He said: "Permission was given for the plane to land at RAF Brize Norton and it did so safely.

"However the pilot reported that about 10 nautical miles from its destination the passenger opened the door and jumped out.

"We have very little further information at the moment. We will be continuing our investigations."

Sealed off

Superintendent Learmot McDougal of Thames Valley police said the initial report came from air traffic control who said a passenger had left the aircraft without a parachute.

Thames Valley police said they have sealed off both the site where the body was found and the area around the plane.

A spokesman from the base said: "We had a privately-owned civilian aircraft that landed here.

"The pilot requested permission to land and it was granted."

Ministry of Defence police are working alongside officers from the Thames Valley force to investigate the incident.

<a href="http://news.bbc.co.uk/hi/english/uk/england/newsid_1749000/1749564.stm" target="_blank">Plane passenger 'jumps to his death'</a> <img src="frown.gif" border="0">

[ 08 January 2002: Message edited by: BossEyed ]</p>

[X-QUORK]

The police really have their work cut out trying to solve this one. I can't imagine what could've led to this happening - other than suicide...but what a horrible way to do it.

How easy would it be to inadvertantly depart from the Cessna ?

[Greg Baddeley]

Very easy - the 172 and it's single engine, high wing cousins have been used for many years by parachute clubs; thanks to the large doors each side of the cabin, it would have been a piece of cake to unstrap, push open the door and go - once past the edge of the door, the slipstream would pull a body out very sharpish.

A long time back, the wife of an executive of a UK company jumped from the company Beech 200 as it was approaching Denham - like you say, not a nice way to go, but then is there a nice way to go when you decide that the world can't offer you anything to hope for?

(Normal signature not included - it wouldn't be appropriate in this case)

[meloz]

she allegedly jumped. hmmm

and come on! everyone that has opened a 172 door during flight/even at stall knows it just doesn't happen by accident

[DamienB]

Nicer way to go than the suicide beheading by that bloke in Dorset - tie noose around neck, tie other end around telegraph pole, get in car, floor it...

[Gertrude the Wombat]

Dunno about a 172 but I've certainly been in a 152 where the door opened itself by accident in flight. This has happened to me twice, once whilst a student and once when giving someone else a ride. So the second time I knew what to say to my passenger: "Don't worry, just pull it shut again, that's what the seat belt is there for".

But I agree that once the door has popped open spontaneously you would have trouble undoing your belt and pushing the door open (the slipstream holds it nearly shut) andfalling out all by accident.

[ 09 January 2002: Message edited by: Gertrude the Wombat ]</p>

[Lools]

Perhaps he just didn't want to go to Brize? Not everybody does.

[ipanema]

If the pilot had slowed the airplane for landing - and for that the power would also have been reduced - I believe a determined (or panicked) passenger would not have found it too much of a hardship to wedge the door open with his body against a slower slipstream and just drop out.

I know that some females can do extraordinary things, but where would she have found found the strength and agility, first to open the farside door and then to push a grown man out - even in a reduced slipstream - to his death while continuing to fly the airplane?

How does she induce him to cooperate? If he was drugged, the autopsy would pick that up in the first simple blood test.

If she had dropped the speed to just above the stall to make the egress easier, wouldn't she guarantee that at least some witnesses on the ground see something strange about an airplane doing unusual things? And maybe even report them?

Sounds like suicide to me.

But then there's always a conspiracy theory. Maybe she had her military lover in the back seat do the dirty deed and that's why she landed at RAF Brize Norton with a flimsy icing excuse... he could melt away into a drill squad.

Or they were spirited away into a UFO and the aliens projected the airplane and the man back into the airspace separately.

It's a job for Hercule Poirot, obviously...

[nitefiter]

ipanema
if you slow a 172 down for landing at about 10nm from your destination you never get there or thats what it seems like!Everyone who has ever flown a 150 or 172 has had the door come off those dreadful catches, even at low power you would still have to be pretty determined to get out and jump. the only person probably that knows why is the person that sadly died but jumping from an aircraft in flight is no cry for help

[747FOCAL]

Maybe he was stepping outside to brush off the ice and slipped.

[Cesspit 152]

I tried the airbrake trick with my instructor in the 152 & despite the effort required (bloody hard as it was to fly the thing at the same time as introducing a new control surface...)it seemed quite effective, have to agree with "Gertrude the Wombat's" comment about the spontaneously opening doors - latches seem a little flimsy when you see the ones on a Piper - but it adds a little excitement to the old flying.

[Roadtrip]

If that happened in the states, the news media would have ran a complete news story on this guy, with fancy graphics and dubbed him the "Suicide Bomb-er." They then would have shreeked "How can this happen!!! All doors in aircraft should be welded shut to prevent such occurences in the future! NO ONE ON THE GROUND IS SAFE WHEN SOMEONE CAN EASILY OPEN AN AIRCRAFT DOOR AND DIVE BOMB THEMSELVES!!!!"

[JJflyer]

This happened in California about a year ago. Pax dropped out of a Twin-Otter.

All Otter doors where ordered welded shut by an Emergency AD.

[New Bloke]

I have had the door on a 152 pop on me a while back. Surely if there was a bit of rudder involved shielding the door from the slipstream it would be easy enough to open????

A gentle slip. Then again he may have gone out through the window! probably easier than the door.

[bluskis]

Nopax
I think the wife exited before Leavesden, not Denham. Mrs Ritblat?

[Sensible]

It's been a while since I flew a Cessna but isn't there a quick release which pulls out the hinge pin for use in emergency? I seem to remember that a 150 I flew whilst training was fitted with something similar!

Anybody know if the emergency door release is fitted to 172's? Was this deployed in this instance? I can guess that if the door came off in flight, anybody hanging on to it would be sky boarding with it!!

[sam white]

Occasionaly my girl bores me but not quite that much. Was he breifed, cause if they had come across the channel, he would be wearing a life jacket. Did he get confused and think it was a parachute???? or was she just that boring!

[Speed Twelve]

Cessna 150/152 Aerobats have jettisonable doors in order that you can parachute from them in an emergency, presumably after you've overstressed the thing to the point of structural failure whilst getting overexcited doing aeros.

The C172 doors have a rotating latch mechanism which positively secures the doors closed in flight- no chance of them popping open by accident. There is no jettison system.

I've had one or two nervous passengers/students on trial flying lessons and the like go into such an utter irrational blind panic once airborne that they'd do virtually anything not to be in the aircraft anymore, although stepping outside would seem a fairly daft thing to do...

As a suicide method it's a bloody sight more considerate than the uncaring b@$tard who stepped in front of a train I was on a few years ago and delayed it for an hour whilst they hosed it clean afterwards.

ST.

[Twin Jet]

Some of the Aerobats had a quick release mechanism for the door. This was mainly an FAA thing whereby the crew were expected to wear parachutes whilst aerobatting. This is not so in the UK and many of the old 150s are just pinned but the 152s still often have the release. I can't recall any of the 172s having them - but who wants to flick a 172 anyway, they get bent enough by people trying to barrel roll them!! <img src="rolleyes.gif" border="0">

[Flybywyre]

Anyone know where this aircraft had taken off from ?

[ 09 January 2002: Message edited by: Flybywyre ]</p>

[Wee Weasley Welshman]

I just heard it was a male ex-SAS soldier who jumped. Which changes things somewhat.

WWW

[phd]

It's great to see so many funny/sick/poor taste postings in this thread. Since September the 11th it has been difficult to retain a sense of humour when faced with death, doom and destruction. Although a tragedy for those concerned this bizarre incident provides almost limitless scope for comedy amongst the great wits out there in ppruneland. The passenger was clearly a member of Al-Qaeda who mis-read his job title of 'aerial suicide bomber' as 'aerial suicide bomb'. I rest my case.

[cools]

Some reports indicate that the deceased was qualified on fixed wing and helicopters. Having experienced the effect of heavy icing on a 172 myself in this area some years ago I can say that at full power in cloud with two up we were going down fast. Perhaps he chose to sacrifice himself so that his loved one might survive. An aviator is dead what is there to joke about?

[t'aint natural]

According to the BBC website report:

"A Civil Aviation Authority spokesman said the man may have panicked - thinking the plane was going to crash - and decided to take his chances by jumping."

Did the CAA really say this? Who in the CAA said it? On what did he base this speculation, which is now winging its way about the public prints, backed by the authority of the Civil Aviation Authority and the BBC?

[IanSeager]

From Ananova...

The man who died after apparently jumping from a light aircraft has been identified as a former SAS soldier. Charles Bruce, an expert skydiver, died after plunging 5,000ft from the plane into fields near the village of Fifield, Oxfordshire.
The aircraft was being piloted by a woman understood to be 46-year-old Mr Bruce's girlfriend.

[batty_boy]

He was ex sas and had problems that are on public record,
Let me get this straight, he wasn't an airline pilot so he is fair game for a pisstake?What happenned to all the sanctimonious "my thoughts are blah blah claptrap" you normally get on these occasions.
if it will make you show a bit more respect he was a pilot as well.
For a bunch of fence sitters you lot sure are opinionated.
farewell pprune i'd rather play piano in a whorehouse

[tiger burn]

Ex SAS & allegedly Jim Davidson's minder. RIP

[boris]

Speed Twelve

You are an inconsiderate, uncaring, foul, apology for a human being.
The perpertrator of that appalling act and the driver who was forced to witness it are the sad victims.
You, sir, are worthless.

[LRRP]

O.K. here is the captains brief.
As you are new to flying in light aircraft I shall explain some of the rules.

1. Do not touch any of the controls.

2. If we get any icing on the wings I will ask you to unbuckle your seat belt and open the door and press this fuel tester gadget into the fuel drain on the underside of the wing just outside of your door (you see it ?)

This will enable us to dump enough fuel so as to make a safe emergency landing.

There will be some slipstream to contend wth but do not worry because I will bank the aircraft over to your side which will make it much easier to open the door.

As the window opens in an upwards direction there is no way to reach the fuel drain without opening the door so I am afraid that is the only way it can be done.
:) <img src="confused.gif" border="0">

[Daifly]

Just don't rise to the bait PpruNers - it'll make everyone start SHOUTING at each other and the topic's been quite informative until now.

It has to be a very strange set of circumstances though - the "panic" idea (which was attributed to the CAA but I very much doubt it) seems quite plausible - otherwise why wouldn't P1 have informed Brize Approach of the problem - rather a problem with icing?

If the chap was ex-SAS, had jumping experience, was a little (allegedly) "unhinged", then maybe it all came together at the wrong time.

The work I do we deal with Sectioned patients all the time, and some of them seem to have been pushed over the edge by the slightest thing - although it's been a long combination leading up to it.

Must have been horrific for P1 though - glad she didn't lose it and managed to land safely, it's certainly not something that's covered in those very valuable 45 hours of instruction...

[Airbubba]

From The Times:

THURSDAY JANUARY 10 2002

SAS man named as plane leap victim

BY OLIVER WRIGHT

A MAN who plunged to his death from a light aircraft at 5,000ft was identified last night as a former SAS man who had written an autobiography entitled Freefall.
An expert skydiver, Charles ‘Nish’ Bruce apparently leapt without a parachute from the twin-seater Cessna 172 aircraft into fields near the village of Fifield, Oxfordshire.

The plane, being piloted by a woman believed to be Mr Bruce’s girlfriend, had taken off from Spain and was bound for Hinton-in-the-Hedges, Northamptonshire.

Mr Bruce, 46, was the first special forces soldier to parachute into the Falklands in the 1982 conflict with Argentina, according to a former colleague. He was also awarded the Queen’s Gallantry Medal.

His 1998 book, written under the pseudonym Tom Read, was a testament to the destructive force of the SAS’s high-octane life-style and chronicled his mental collapse. He is believed to have suffered from post-traumatic stress syndrome.

After leaving the SAS in the 1980s, Mr Bruce worked as a security expert and had been employed as a minder for showbusiness personality Jim Davidson, who described him as one of the bravest people he had met.

A former comrade of who served with Bruce in B Squadron SAS said last night: “Nish had a history of mental problems. He was always very close to the edge.

“He was an eccentric to say the least and was bordering on the genius. He could do The Times crossword in 15 minutes.”

An inquest into the death is due to open in Oxford today.

[slim_slag]

I like the theory cools put forward. It would fit the persona, and is more respectful than most other guesses here, especially if the survivor tells the same tale.

[Steepclimb]

A very odd one, it looks very much like he jumped when as they say in court 'the balance of his mind was disturbed'. (I'm not being flippant).

It seems to me that there is almost an instinct for experienced skydivers to abandon ship in an emergency. I remember reading of an experienced skydiver who had recently qualified as a jump pilot. He stalled the aircraft during the cut panicked and bailed out immediately leaving his hapless skydiver passengers to make their way out as best they could.

It's speculation but in the stress of the moment, icing is very scary at any time. He may have simply reacted by instinct. A panic attack perhaps. No doubt when we read the accident report , all will become clear. The pilot's testimony will be illuminating.

[sdac]

Very sorry to see you go, Nish. RIP.

Somehow, I'm not surprised; it was almost inevitable that it was going to end like this in one way or another. But it is still a shock when it does, and very sad.

[Twin Jet]

Nish, RIP mate

You will be missed at Hinton - now who is going to help us mere mortals with the crossword and other clever things in life. <img src="frown.gif" border="0">

[Kirstey]

&gt;As a suicide method it's a bloody sight more &gt;considerate than the uncaring b@$tard who &gt;stepped in front of a train I was on a few years &gt;ago and delayed it for an hour whilst they hosed &gt;it clean afterwards.

I must say I agree entirely - people who do this are selfish scum...Make the families of the suicide "victim" pay all costs that'd make them a bit more considerate!

At least the SAS geezer had the decency to pick his moment. Does the AAIB investigate this?

[knows]

Kirstey. You have no idea about mental health issues.
Your stupid statements "more &gt;considerate than the uncaring b@$tard who &gt;stepped in front of a train I was on a few years &gt;ago and delayed it for an hour - people who do this are selfish scum...At least the SAS geezer had the decency to pick his moment" make my blood boil.

This guy fought for you in the Falklands .
It's a very sad story , but he will always be a hero.(unlike your contribution to society!)

[ 10 January 2002: Message edited by: knows ]</p>

[flying dutchman]

First met Nish at BK in early 80's. Good bloke. WHO DARES WINS. RIP mate.
<img src="frown.gif" border="0">

[E. MORSE]

The light plane is to heavy holding two persons.
Ice is accumulating.

A beloved one to remain.

Probably his last thoughts, in my opinion.

A noble man / "Noblesse oblige".

Who dares wins.

[Kalium Chloride]

I can't help wondering if some of these glamorous tributes might not end up looking embarrassingly out of place in a few weeks' time.

[Kirstey]

Knows - What if he'd have landed on someone and killed them?? still a hero then??

and why should the bloke be a hero to me? his efforts in the Falklands are beneficial to me in exactly what way?

[Hot 'n' High]

knows - Have to agree with your comment re: Kirstey, and I also have little sympathy for Speed Twelve. All very frustrating I'm sure.

We may never know exactly what happened on this flight. However, I can only hope that should either Kirstey or Speed Twelve ever suffer from such an illness, as that is what it is, in their lives, that perhaps someone will be there to help them before it is too late. Oh, I know Kirstey, you will say that it will never happen to you ...... And I hope for your sake it doesn't. Truth is, such things often come out the blue - as all illnesses can do. Like getting Cancer, you will have no choice in the matter I'm afraid. You can only pray that such illness is caught in time and that there are people who can help you before it is too late.

So perhaps we should remember with sadness the victim, the exceptional P1 who will have to come to terms with what happened on that flight and any family/friends involved. Everyone knows/accepts things such as Cancer are dreadful diseases. While I am not saying suicide was the cause here (not my place to make ill-informed judgements), mental illness affects a huge slice of the population. Kirstey and Speed Twelve, you raised this issue I believe. I hope you and your families are spared the devastation of such illness.

H 'n' H

[Danza]

If anyone wants to know a bit exta about this guy, I strongly reccomend getting hold of a copy of his autobiography (See Airbubba's post at the top of this page), Freefall by Tom Read. It's a real eye opener. The bloke was going attempt the world longest/highest freefall, when he suddenly just cracks, and loses it, tries to kill his wife.
Anyway, long story, just read it yourself.

[A_Pommie]

Frankly I’m appalled by the tone of this thread, it does not matter if he lost the plot or jumped to save a loved one, He died that’s what’s important. Suicide is always selfish the people left behind are always hurt. If the biggest problem in your life is being delayed on a train then you should be grateful.
As for if the Falklands war benefited you or not so what, I’m not even sure if the war was justified but that’s a political issue, the people who went and fought the war are heroes because they chose a profession where they would risk themselves for the benefit of others. As an ex SAS member how do you know that in the past he has not stopped the plane you fly from becoming a hole in the ground.
I fly for fun not for money and generally I have a lot of respect for every one who works in the airline industry but this thread is bellow contempt comparing the relative selfishness of how some one tops them selves. A few years ago an ex BA captain was hounded to the point were he ended it all it wasn’t funny and if I suggested it was I would be lynched, what’s the difference?

My sympathies to the family and friends of the deceased.

[Greg Baddeley]

bluskis - yes, that was the lady in question; and I must admit I thought it was Denham, but it was a long time ago (mid-eighties, I think?) Obviously this guy is well respected by many, and it's a most tragic occurrence. I did not mean in my earlier posting that it was easy to fall out of a 172 by accident, I overlooked the 'inadvertantly' in the previous message - mea culpa, as a humble engineer I have a problem with long words.....

[Grim Reaper 14]

Maybe he was just trying to drop something to a mate waiting on the ground when he lost his balance and went with it.

[bow5]

Kirstey, your last post on this thread was totally out of order.

[quote]and why should the bloke be a hero to me? his efforts in the Falklands are beneficial to me in exactly what way? <hr></blockquote>

Regardless of what has happened in this incident, this guy put his life on the line to fight for his country. The country of which I presume you are a citizen. Your attitude sucks and sums up just how much of an ignorant, selfish directionless and fragmented country this has become. <img src="mad.gif" border="0">

If you really lack the intelligence to come up with something more constructive than that then I feel sorry for you.

Pathetic.

[ 10 January 2002: Message edited by: bow5 ]</p>

[PPRuNe Pop]

Kirstey, I personally find your post re 'Nish' Bruce highly offensive. Your references are ill judged and completely opposed to common decency.

You obviously didn't know 'Nish' otherwise you would not make such immature utterings. He was a very brave guy, and it was a pleasure to know him. He did suffer from mental anguish which was very sad to see in such a person, bought on no doubt by his devotion to the SAS and his country. He was certainly NOT a selfish person either.

I suggest that you take the opportunity to edit your own post by moderating what you surely didn't mean. It is right that you should don't you think?

The alternative is that I will do it for you.

Goodbye Nish, nice to have known you.

PPRune Pop
Administrator
[email protected]

[ 10 January 2002: Message edited by: PPRuNe Pop ]</p>

[LGW Vulture]

Do we want to instigate a Falklands conflict on pprune, I hope not.

This thread has generated into a free for all knockabout, on all angles.

And those of you who say Falkland heroes "died for the UK" please get a grip. If you imagine the Argies trying to take Jersey / Guernsey, then you know how they felt about the Islands that were rightfully theirs! And yes, I am UK born and bred!

Sovereignty is in the eye of the beholder.

[TomPierce]

Is it doing that? I don't think so. Just forget what he was, and where he fought. Just think about the man. It is tragic!

[bow5]

I'm sure if the Argies tried to take Jersey/Guernsey i'm sure they could. This country would just sit back and be walked over, like we are the whole time.

Like others have said though, this is not the point. Someone died in an aviation accident and that is tragic.

[Base leg]

After an incident like this my thoughts go to his family. I hope they dwell on the good times and not the bad.

[LGW Vulture]

I agree that its a sad way to go, no doubting that.

However, is one death a tragedy when it was instigated by the same individual?
1,000 accidental deaths are a mere statistic are they not.

Please grasp the nettle, perspective please!!!

If the last thread on pprune regarding the CL604 is anything to go by, someone will be screaming about delays caused by the AAIB in clearing the body, to allow the local farmer to plough the land that his rightfully his!

Please come down from your own a"""holes.

[TomPierce]

Are you completely without compassion *** Vulture?
Everyone know what you mean in your first sentence which is about as good as your last.

There is enough written above to give you a vital clue about this particular "statistic" as you coldy call it.

Referring to the farmers field is another indication of your demeanour. The AAIB and Police can of course prevent anything they want in the interest of finding cause. But I expect you really knew that didn't you. <img src="frown.gif" border="0">

[LGW Vulture]

UncleTomCobbly

Completely missing the point aren't you!

My third para shows the apparent lack of thought sometime awash on this network. When that 604 went down, barely were those bodies cold when someone complained that BHX was closed for too long. These guys had no choice about their exit...

For whatever reason, this guy did have a choice even taking into account his state of mind!

If he was unstable, he shouldn't be up there, it wasn't just him aboard remember...

[bow5]

This thread SHOULD NOT turn into a slanging match but LGW, what the hell rattled your cage?

Don't you think you're being a little premature decrying this guy? No one actually knows that it was suicide.

Bejesus man, clam down.

[JJflyer]

Kirtey, you duass. Thawas not very nicely said now was it. Man was fighting for your country so that you can drag your fata.s in to office every morning, sip your tea and do your, oh so essential job.
Like it or not man deserves respect.

[Chuck Ellsworth]

Some of you people here are appalling and discusting.

How can you make such statements about your fellow human beings who die, especially knowing nothing of why they died.

As to the SAS anyone who speaks so negatively about arguably the best trained and bravest military group on earth can not truly be a British citizen in my opinion.

And as far as mental illness goes where do you draw the line, it makes one wonder reading some of the comments here.

[Bigears]

Lets give the man some RESPECT.

For me, he deserves some;
1) He was in the SAS
2) He has died, and people are making assumptions about how
3) He was involved in aviation.

I never knowingly met him, but I am saddened by his passing.

[KERDUNKER]

I knew Nish when we were both in green, panic? never, though he would always be up front during a caper.

Airborne

[ 10 January 2002: Message edited by: KERDUNKER ]</p>

[scroggs]

I think this thread has gone on long enough. There are some here who, in the cause of controversy or spitefulness, don't care who they insult or upset. A good man is dead. Allow him to rest in peace, and respect his contribution to our nation and its interests.

[Capt Crash]

So many ex soldiers out there!

I never met Nish but spent plenty of time with the B Squadron boys who always talked with great fondness and humour about him. When I heard the news I knew it was him.

It's sad the way he died and even sadder that people have no sympathy for the illness he had or how his family must feel. We all sleep under the blanket of protection provided by EVERY soldier (whatever the cap badge), we should be grateful.

[myrddin]

Uncanny is this. Anyone remember the Air Europe skipper who dumped his wife out of a 152 over Wastwater, back in the eighties?

[divingduck]

similar thing happened in Sydney in the early eighties.
Guy went up for a joyflight, pulled a knife on the pilot and jumped out of a C172 (I think)

[skymonkee]

There were many of us in the Falklands and i'd go again in a second even though such actions give rise to the democracy that allows frog spawn like kirsty to go about its business.

Whatever his reasons i'm sure he managed a half series or two on the way down, and in control enuff to avoid people on the gnd.

cheers nish it was amusing jumping with you.

[Capt PPRuNe]

Apologies for the delay in reading the contents of this thread. Some of the other moderators have already made their statements.

I am closiing it for two reasons. One is because it is not what I would classify as a PPRuNe R & N topic and and the other is that there are just too many people who don't have the decency to respect other peoples feelings and are too quick to trash a thread that was being used to express peoples sympathies.