Fly-in Communities (merged)

[Ptkay]

These are very popular in US and Canada.

Do you think there is any interest in developing something like this in Europe (UK, Germany, or elsewhere) ?

There is something going on in France and Spain...

What do you think ?

Would you be interested ?

Ptkay

[Ptkay]

These are very popular in US and Canada.

Do you think there is any interest in developing something like this in Europe (UK, Germany, or elsewhere) ?

There is something going on in France and Spain...

What do you think ?

Would you be interested ?

Ptkay

[skydriller]

PtKay,

To my knowledge there are 3 operational Fly-in communities in France, two just north of La Rochelle and one at Biscarrosse. As for other countries I dont know.

Regards, SD..

[Fly Stimulator]

There's another one on the cards at Verchocq, just inland from Le Touquet.

See www.leisure-airpark.com (http://www.leisure-airpark.com/)

[Ptkay]

Does it mean there are no in UK ?

Why ? Land to expensive or no interest ?

[Penguina]

You'd need normal transport as well in the UK though, wouldn't you?

I know lots of people who'd be interested!

[Ludwig]

two reasons , planners and nimbys. I think there have been a couple under consideration, one in east anglia and another in the SW, but they were shot down by the planners. Also old airfields tend to be used to park the over-supply from the car industry - it makes more money I suspect!:mad:

[BossEyed]

The one in the SW was to have been at Henstridge. Reportedly, it was turned down by 'Two Jabs' Prescott himself.

About 10 years prior to that, there was talk of a development near Telford. I was never sure if that was to be based around an existing airfield.

[Onan the Clumsy]

There are plenty of them in Texas.

The problem I see is that you go to the airport to get away from the wife/neighbours/house etc. If you live AT the airport, then you can't get away from these things and if you piss someone off then it could become a little troublesome.

They seem to be very popular though.

[big.al]

I know of one being built in south-east Spain, not far from Murcia. My guess is they are mainly aiming this at affluent people (who also have an aeroplane) as second/holiday homes. Last time I saw the website it showed the runway had been completed (1200m tarmac).

[Kolibear]

Any idea why this thread is also running in Jet Blast?

I didn't think that aviation-related threads were allowed in there.

[Ptkay]

Sorry, that was me...

I was not sure where to put it, so I did first JetBlast,
but I think this is the proper one.

Thanks for all the input.

Of course permanently living at the ap might be
not the thing, but as a second residence,
just for week-end or holidays...

Get there fast , no traffic jams, pure fun...

PTKay

[flyblue]

I was not sure where to put it, so I did first JetBlast,
but I think this is the proper one.
When this happens (since you cannot duplicate threads) please delete one of them (the starter of a thread can do so by deleting the first post of the thread) to avoid extra work to overworked :ugh: and quick-t empered :* Moderators.
Thank you :)

[muffin]

"About 10 years prior to that, there was talk of a development near Telford. I was never sure if that was to be based around an existing airfield"

That was at what used to be Bratton airfield during WW2. The plans got turned down by the council. It is still just farmer's fields AFAIK.

[BossEyed]

Thanks for the info on Bratton, Muffin. Another of my life's mysteries solved!

As for fly-in communities, I've always been jealous of those such as the ones on the West Coast of the US, with their own radio operated security gate on the taxiway, 5 beds, 3 car garage at the front and two aircraft hangar at the back, nicely rounded off with a pool. Jealous of their weather as well :8

Jealousy is not an attractive trait, I grant you, but I do it so well ;)

[IO540]

The Murcia fly-in is at

http://www.murcia-fly-in.com/

It appears to be coming along very slowly. I was in contact with the developers about a year ago; despite being at all the air shows, they didn't really want to reply to correspondence. Perhaps they just wanted people with a suitcase of cash - the Spanish property market has been like that for a while.

They were developing some 700 properties around the airfield - this is more than the sum total of aircraft owners (ones that have any money, the min plot+house price was GBP 200k) in the whole of Europe.

Also a major international airport was planned just a few miles away.

This region is being heavily developed for the ex-Brit fish and chips / pint of bitter crowd.

I don't think large air parks will work in Europe. The French ones are much smaller, more expensive (GBP 400k+) but a lot nicer.

[knobbygb]

If you have the kind of money to afford a place like that (that's SERIOUS money), either as main residence or second home, where would you spend it Spain? Arizona? Or Telford?

Sorry, it's a non-starter.

[englishal]

I have often thought about selling up, moving off to the USA, buying 40 acres of land in Arizona for $15000, build my 7000 sq foot house, with 3 car garage and hangar, building a runway, buying a good aircraft, and having no mortgage.....and still having change to spare from my house sale.....

I will probably never do it though :{

[Whiskey Kilo Wanderer]

I was intrigued by the reports of the fly-in community near Le Touquet / Boulogne / Calais, having heard about it at St. Omer as well as Fly Stimulator’s link above. Monday was a nice flying day, so armed with the Pilot freebie landing voucher for Le Touquet, a quick visit was in order.

They had some fliers for the project on the counter at Le Touquet. These have a form on the back to fill in if you are interested (you are invited to register and comment without commitment). On the return I routed back via Verchocq. Fortunately with the co-ordinates in the GPS(s) as it’s not that easy to find. At present there’s no development other than the existing farm strip and flying club. I’d not sought PPR so didn’t land, but it appears to be a 600m grass strip, sloping up towards the west.

Hopefully it will be a more economic proposition than Spruce Creek or Vendee, as they repeatedly mention microlights. Anything heavy might have problems with the short grass field. According to the flier they plan to extend the strip to 710m. There are also a couple of adverts from companies building wooden chalets etc, another indication that it might not be too expensive (relatively!)

Safe Flying.
Richard W.

[IO540]

englishal

I think you'd find that in Arizona your brain would turn into jelly only marginally slower that it would do so in Spain :O

I've been there, can vouch for your property prices, but there is nothing to do there. Nothing except take thousands of pictures of the Grand Canyon, Bryce Canyon, Canyonlands National Park, Monument Valley (that's into Utah, where property is even cheaper...)

Retirement in Spain is for people who are mentally finished and are ready to spend the rest of their days sitting in the sun and drinking wine or whatever, chatting to their chums from Chelsmford, watching East Enders on Sky TV.

:O

WKW

The Murcia air park is like that too. The runway is there and that's more or less it.

[englishal]

Hmm...good point.;)

[Ptkay]

Brain-jelly in Arizona or Murcia?

Probably correct.

But what about, if this fly-in community would be a former
miltary base with a 2300 x 30 m runway,
near a huge lake, (for saling or motorboating)
in the middle of huge forests complex, (for hunting or just trekking)
with wild fresh water creeks crossing (for fishing and canoeing)
and maybe a golf place ?

30 min flight from the see, 2 h flight from major
European capitals.
In case of trouble (weather) 15 min flight from IFR international airport (small one, not very busy).

Would you go for it ???

Ptkay

[IO540]

What country are you referring to?

I looked at this a year or so ago.

What you describe sounds a great place to live. The bit I am unsure of is what exactly would be the attraction of living so close to an airfield, perhaps making compromises on other fronts.

It would make a lot of sense if one's lifestyle was such that private flying was used a great deal to get about, but while that appears common in the USA it is very rare in Europe, perhaps because the weather isn't as good, the distances aren't as great, there are far fewer airfields that are usable in less than very good weather, and it is a lot more expensive to fly.

I agree that an air park would be ideal for those (few) people who fit this lifestyle. But one needs to find a lot more people to make it commercially viable.

I bet that whatever location you find that contains a nice airfield, there are going to be as good and cheaper houses say 10 miles away as one would find right next to the runway. And 10 miles isn't far to drive if one is going to fly 500 miles.

I went through this when looking quite seriously at the Murcia air park, with a view to purchasing a house there to stay in occassionally and to rent out to pilots in the UK and elsewhere. There is "going to be" a flight training business there and this would appear an ideal setup for PPL training, in a much better climate than the UK normally has - and shipping PPL students from the UK to Murcia is far quicker and cheaper than shipping them to Florida.

Eventually I dropped this idea because the developers were not responding to communications, in a manner which made me very suspicious. But if you can find a nice airfield in Spain (not many of them) you can find a good enough hotel a few miles away, so it could be difficult to get decent rental rates at the air park.

France doesn't have significantly better weather than the UK unless one goes a long way south.

No matter how I look at it, an air park in Europe is something which one must consider primarily for the location and the house, and if a runway is near that is a bonus. One must remember that most candidate residents have to work to make money. Very few retired people are going to fly frequently enough to want to buy into an air park.

The big problem in the UK is airfields disappearing, often under pressure from property developers. I think that 20 years from now, at least half the present GA-accessible airfields will be gone. When this happens, a lot of people just stop flying for good because the nearest might be two hours' drive. It is an interesting question whether an air park gives one better security.

[Ptkay]

You made few good points.

But...

What I've heard from some friends in France, the fly-ins there
are rather second residences for their owners in their mid-life.
(Not for retired, wine sipping, passive people.)

They fly in there on weekends or summer-winter holidays.

The key is the time you need to get there on the Friday evening,
and back on Sunday.

Trying to drive from London anywhere to the coast villa,
will take you hours of stress and jams.

App. in the same time you are at your house door step on the
Atlantic coast in France. (No need to mention the difference
in the estate prices here and there).

So such fly-in must be in an atractive region, offering you
lots of possible activities. Therefore, what I try to create
(at the moment virtually), is a model of such place.

I personally do no golfing, but am a horse fan, so at my
"dream fly-in" there must be a riding opportunity, and of course
plenty of wild landscape to ride into.
Cycling, canoeing, sailing, and in winter, down-hill and
cross-country skiing, skating, snow scooters...

Also a possibility of interesting sightseeing flying should be there...

See any hope for such idea ?

Ptkay

[IO540]

OK, I'll buy it :O

One proviso: the houses must be a lot cheaper than the UK. The current French air parks (that I've looked at) have houses around the Eur 600k mark; this is comparable to the cost of a 5 bedroom house in the more expensive parts of the UK and not many working people will be able to spend that as well as keeping their main house.

If you can offer a good location for say Eur 200k then you will get lots of customers. With or without a runway nearby.

Murcia was going for Eur 300k entry level and there don't appear to be many takers. But then Murcia is not exactly a nice part of Spain, especially the inland location in question.

Anywhere in France is within the range of a good piston single but somewhere around the latitude of say La Rochelle is accessible for many more people. But there the weather only just begins to be nice.

[skydriller]

The link works, I get the aeroplane graphics and flypasts on the plan page etc. as I have Flash, but its all I get........it wont show any other pages/info etc. - site not finished or perhaps another problem my end?

Regards, SD..

[bar shaker]

Retirement in Spain is for people who are mentally finished and are ready to spend the rest of their days sitting in the sun and drinking wine or whatever, chatting to their chums from Chelsmford, watching East Enders on Sky TV.

That sounds remarkably like my wife's parents, who live 10 miles from Murcia. :O

They are selling up and moving to France though. They've found a nice 4 bed place near La Rochelle, with enough acres to have a decent grass strip and will stick £100k in their back pocket from the move.

Bit of a no brainer really.

Especially when you have seen the summer traffic on the N332 between Murcia and Torrevieja :{

[Sir George Cayley]

It's near the Bay of Rosas at Ampuribrava (sp?) I think.

Has a/c, homes and boats. Seems pretty much like heaven.

Speaking as a jelly brained wine sipper that is.


Sir George Cayley

[Flyin'Dutch']

Ptkay,

Brienne le Chateau?

Nice field and area. But very much in the middle of nowhere.

[IO540]

I think France is a better place to look for an air park than Spain. France does at least have some airfields :O

[Scion]

Have you lot thought of Australia?
Language is a sort of English, Weather is better than the UK and it,s main advantage is that it is far enough away from your rels in England!
There are a series of Airparks starting and a Farm west of the Blue Mountains with room for a strip is a fraction of prices quoted above!