Vertical separation en route

[Check 6]

I have a question for my ATC friends regarding vertical separation in Europe. I have been flying a Learjet over here for about 7 months now. All of my prior flying has been in the Americas. It seems while en route at altitude (above FL 310) that I encounter other jets in the opposite direction that appear to have only 1000 feet vertical separation, when I thought currently 2000 feet is the minimum. Is this just my eyes fooling me, or does 1000 feet separation exist now? Thank you.

Check 6

[need to know]

In airspace controlled by the Irish,French and the Scots(I think), 1000ft is acceptable between aircraft that are RVSM approved. This is to facilitate traffic entering/exiting the North Atlantic track system. I don't think RVSM operates elsewhere in Europe.

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And that's what I think about that.

[RogerOut]

Yup, Reduced Vertical Separation Minima
(RVSM) in varying degrees used by Shanwick,
Shannon, Reykjavik and available within
RVSM Transition Area in Scottish Airspace
(approx 1/3 of UIR immediately to east of
oceanic boundary). It has been on "trial"
now for about 3 years (?) and currently
all 1000' levels available from FL310-FL390
inclusive in oceanic airspace, and from
FL290-FL410 in Scottish RVSMTA. Very useful
obviously for packing the traffic in, but
traffic not certified MASPS (minimum altitude
systems performance specification (I know!))
have the option of FL280/+below or FL430/+
above in oceanic airspace. Once a/c leaves
RVSM airspace, normal 2000' vert separation
required. This usually actioned prior to
handover to London from either Shannon/
Scottish, or by Scottish when normal sep'n
required in UIR. Plans are afoot to extend
RVSM airspace throughout Europe. As a matter
of interest, does anyone know if anywhere
other than mentioned above uses 1000' sepn
above FL290 ?

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RogerOut
I Keep Mine Hidden

[Check 6]

Thank you Need to Know and RogerOut. It must be my imagination, the old eyes playing tricks. Opposite traffic never looked so close in America. I have noticed this flying in S. Europe, mostly over Italy where I am based (LIRN) and over the Med. This is probably because in the States, I rarely flew on airways, mostly RNAV direct, which is much more common there, thus fewer instances of encountering opposite traffic on the same track. Thank you for your help. I now know where to seek help for ATC technical questions, as European flying is relatively new to me (7 months here). Ciao,

Check 6

[Feather #3]

Wot bothers me a bit, Chk6, is that you've been potentially driving around in this airspace without knowing anything about RVSM!

It's been a stage production in the Pacific getting it going, but at least the players know [and are approved; airframe & drivers.]

G'day

[PPRuNe Radar]

The guys tell the truth Check 6, and this is certainly the place to ask about ATC matters. We're here to help.

RVSM is also available in Gander, Santa Maria and the New York Oceanic areas, plus the Norwegian and Canadian Transition areas.

It is no longer a trial in these areas but now part of an ICAO "phased" implementation. Full implementation of RVSM at all levels within the North Atlantic will take place co-incident with European implementation on 24th January 2002. The European programme is run by Eurocontrol.

All aircraft flying between FL290 and FL410 post RVSM in European airspace are supposed to be RVSM approved by 31 March 2001.

At a recent industry seminar, the UK and Ireland announced that they intended to introduce full RVSM in their domestic airspaces in April 2001. Non RVSM aircraft will continue to be accomodated however only until the European programme is introduced.

Full info from http://www.eur-rvsm.com

PS Sorry RogerOut MASPS is Minimum Aircraft Systems Performance Specification ;)

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PPRuNe Radar
ATC Forum Moderator
[email protected]

[Check 6]

Thank you all for your comments. I am generally familiar with RVSM, however I thought maybe I was missing something, that is the reason I was asking, to be better informed. I have flown the route between KEF and the UK, but below RVSM airspace. I will check out the web site you provided, cheers.

Check 6

[need to know]

Sorry to question PPRuNE Radar but my understanding is that full RVSM(FL290-FL410) is already operational in Irish controlled airspace. Non RVSM aircraft are accepted. Originally it was only FL330-FL370 on the Atlantic but now it is FL310-FL390. However, Irish controlled airspace has provided full RVSM to suitably equiped aircraft from the start.

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And that's what I think about that.

[This message has been edited by need to know (edited 06 June 2000).]

[PPRuNe Radar]

Both Ireland and Scotland have had RVSM at all levels since the introduction into the NAT, but their status has been as NAT Transition areas. As such it was not possible to mandate compulsory MASPS and hence RVSM for non NAT users who also use the airspace. Indeed it was not possible to mandate MASPS for NAT aircraft either within the Transition Areas. Thus they have not had "full" RVSM.

In April next year both areas, and London, will introduce RVSM as part of the EUR regional plan. MASPS will be encouraged for all operators in these airspace areas from that date, but until the full European implementation takes place will not be compulsory. However in busy traffic flows ATC will be allowed to exclude non MASPS approved aircraft on a tactical basis to ensure maximum capacity. These are subtle differences from being a NAT Transition Area. Once implemented in Europe fully it will be compulsory and only MASPS approved aircraft will be allowed to enter the airspace, with a few exceptions.

Splitting hairs I know, but we are talking politics here. ;)

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PPRuNe Radar
ATC Forum Moderator
[email protected]

[need to know]

As an aside to the RVSM issue; can anyone one tell me why STU is a HMU, even though, as yet, LATCC are not yet operating RVSM. Would it not have made sense to have a HMU unit in an area where RVSM is in daily use.e.g Scottish? Have I just answered my own question?

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And that's what I think about that.

[10W]

The HMU catches aircraft within about 40NM of the site. As the traffic through Scottish is generally less predictable in routeing terms than Shannon, or at least for Eastbounds in the Shannon case, which is because of the NAT weather patterns and tracks, then I guess they looked for a site where there is a regular traffic flow.

Monitoring can also be done on board using PC based kit, the GMU.

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10 West
UK ATC'er
[email protected]

[763 jock]

How does the HMU actually work? Is it very accurate, and what is the biggest error detected?

[PPRuNe Radar]

More info on HMU's here.
http://www.eur-rvsm.com/hmu.htm

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PPRuNe Radar
ATC Forum Moderator
[email protected]