Where can I fly a Crop sprayer.

[BoeingBoy]

It's a funny old thing but I never wanted to be an airline pilot!

When I made it from 15 year old airspotter through instructing to become a CPL in 1977 my initial dream was to crop spray. I nearly got the chance too but it fell through at the last minute, and now here I am as a Boeing Captain with First Choice Airways.

I have kept my PPL valid with experience on taildraggers and Cherokee's over the last six years, I've enjoyed flying vintage and modern types, but it dawned on me recently that the one thing I never got to do was to fly my dream and handle a crop sprayer such as the Pawnee/Agwagon/Commander/Dromada etc.

I know that some Pawnee's operate in the UK as tugs, is there any chance of getting an appropriate checkout to fly one solo? (I even have tug experience from years ago)

Does anyone know of any AgSchools in the USA that still offer dual training/experience, preferably in Florida?

Just a wild shot on this forum, but if anyone knows where I could start down this little road of nostalgia then I would love to hear from you.

BB

[AerBabe]

The tug at North Weald is a Pawnee. No idea how the gliding club works, but you could try contacting them to ask...

[MLS-12D]

"So, You Want to be a Spray Pilot?" (http://www.agairupdate.com/aau/wannabe/pilot.html) ;) Chuck Ellsworth (http://ebushpilot.com/tobacco.htm) can tell you lots about it; perhaps you should send him a PM.

If you simply want to fly a Pawnee, just contact any local glider club that operates one. Since you are current on tailwheel aircraft, a checkout should be relatively easy. This club (http://www.greatlakesgliding.com/TOWPLANE2.doc) is not located near you, so its requirements aren't particularly relevant, but may give you some idea of what you can expect locally.

If you are looking for actual ag training, and are prepared to go to South Africa, try contacting Orsmond Aviation (http://www.orsmondaviation.co.za/pilot_school.htm).

You might be generally interested in Ag-Aviation Online (http://www.ag-aviation-online.com/) and the National Agricultural Aviation Association (http://www.agaviation.org/).

[Chuck Ellsworth]

MLS-12D :

I had almost forgotten that I had written that story, how in hell did you find it? :)

Boeingboy :

There are many places you can get to fly a crop spraying machine, just keep looking.

The best airplane for pure enjoyment in crop spraying has to be the Stearman, look for one of those and then go fly it.....

And it was the best job I ever had, a few weeks ago I was flying a Pitts S2B and it was almost like going back in time flying a biplane again.

Let us know when you fly one.

Chuck:

[stiknruda]

BB - I had a very similar desire to be a "duster" pilot, until I spent a week with a freelance outfit in southern Africa.

Great guys, great evenings listening to war stories.

On day 2, an ag-cat forced landed because of fuel contamination.

On day 3 I got to ride in the empty hopper of a Zlin 526 (it had a seat and a harness.) To see what the quarter clover turns looked/felt like

Day 4 I was checked out on a 260 Pawnee - check out was along the lines of try and keep these dials in the green and only press the shiney switches - have fun. I didn't spray anything but did try the slow climbing reverse turn (1/4 clover)

Day 5 I was alowed to start and taxi the Zlin.

Day 6 I did a circuit in the Zlin

Day 7 I flew the Zlin from base strip to the fwd operating strip (10 miles).

Had a great week, but knew halfway through that I couldn't do it for a career. Nothing to do with the flying, the guys or the steak/beer intake - I just could not stand the all pervading smell of the chemicals. One of the chaps even after a shower would still smell like the inside of a 45gallon drum of pesticide.

Great fun and I sometimes wish I'd done a whole season - perhaps the summer season on contract s fire-bombers. This bunch used to be affiliated top Orsmond and were hired to be on stand-by as water bombers - boring till it was exciting!

Stik

[mazzy1026]

If I am on the right cloud here I am sure there is a Stearman at Liverpool ! (then again I may have forgotten my pills this morning).

Go here:

http://www.lfs.flyer.co.uk/

And click on Aircraft!

Best wishes

Maz :ok:

[robin]

MLS-12D

Not sure any UK gliding clubs are able, or willing to do a check out for this sort of thing. Hire and reward clicks in here, and it could be considered aerial work which would be against 'the rules'.

Given that most will only permit tug pilot conversions for gliding club members and then only with a minimum of Silver C, this might prove difficult

[Chuck Ellsworth]

Robin :

I often wonder what it must be like to be a slave to "rules"

The stupidity of some of the rules defies imagination.

My advice would be to do what ever flying you wish to do and then call it what ever you want to.

As to the rules well what I would do with them is roll the paper up very neatly and shove the rules right up the ass of whoever was concerned about them. :ok:

Chuck

[robin]

Chuck - I am not defending the rules, and I'm not sure if you know what it is like for our gliding clubs here, but we have to tread VERY carefully in the UK not to fall foul of the insurances

Clubs here make every effort to help, but within the limits imposed. We even discourage power pilots from coming to our fields except on gliding business, and with the pilot holding minimum Silver C, to show they understand the way gliding fields work.

Generally, clubs are strictly limited in what they are able to do, commercially, which keeps the costs down, but may reduce income, but, as the consequences of getting it wrong are so serious for the organisation (as in the possibility of being shut down), clubs are very careful.

[Chuck Ellsworth]

Robin :

Of course I understand.

I was just ranting about the stupidity of to many rules put in place by morons.

What happened to the days when people were allowed to decide for themselves what they could safely do?

Rules for the sake of rules eventually results in non compliance.

Chuck

[Flying Lawyer]

Chuck

I'm agree with your thinking but, sadly, those good old days are well and truly gone here.
We have rules about virtually everything and the ethos of our aviation legislation is very much 'Can't do ........... unless' rather than 'Can do ........... unless'

The key legislation under which we fly is the Air Navigation Order:

Part I begins "...... an aircraft shall not fly in or over the United Kingdom unless ......

Part II begins "..... an aircraft registered in the United Kingdom shall not fly .....

Part III begins "..... an aircraft shall not fly unless .....

Part IV ........................ You get the idea.

[MLS-12D]

Robin,

I was not suggesting that BB seek a course of training from a gliding club (if someone approached my own club and asked to learn to fly tailwheel on our Citabria, my answer would be: "we are not a flying school and we are not going to spend time and trouble teaching someone who doesn't already possess the basic skills and who in any case will not be volunteering their time as a tow pilot"). Rather, I was suggesting that he consider becoming a regular tug pilot (I note that he said he has relevant past experience).

Whether a Silver C is required is a matter for individual clubs to decide (and for all I know, BB has all three Diamonds!); certainly, it is not a legal requirement.

the ethos of our aviation legislation is very much 'Can't do ........... unless' rather than 'Can do ........... unless'Tudor, I am not particularly expert in statutory interpretation, but I have always believed that unless legislation specifically prohibits certain conduct, it is prima facie permitted.

I had almost forgotten that I had written that story, how in hell did you find it?Chuck, you can run but you can\'t hide! ;) You have friends and fans everywhere!

[Flying Lawyer]

MLS-12D
".......... unless legislation specifically prohibits certain conduct, it is prima facie permitted."
I'm not particularly expert in interpretation either, but I agree with you.
So, applying the principle ..........

"An aircraft shall not fly" (the prohibition) "unless" it complies with certain specified conditions (the conditional permission.)

I agree with Chuck that we have far too many rules, most of which are prohibitions. The days when pilots were allowed to decide for themselves what they could safely do have largely gone in the UK because we are now so strictly regulated. We are still allowed some discretion, but only within very strictly prescribed limits. Conduct may be completely safe, but that doesn't necessarily mean it's legal - and it probably isn't.

BoeingBoy
I can understand the attraction. Many years ago I went up with a crop-duster in Texas. Only one seat, but a cockpit big enough for two and we were near the Rio Grande, many miles away from the eyes of those who shouldn't see such things. Crop-dusters are impressive from the ground, but sitting in with a very experienced pilot as he worked was quite an experience.

BTW, before anyone says it was risky - yes of course it was, but I was much younger then. ;)

[Chuck Ellsworth]

Hey troops :

How about this for pure mind boggling stupidity.

We were supplied with bright blaze orange flight suits with all the fancy zippers and a special pocket for our condoms for flying in the Airshow displays in Holland.

Well I was on my way from the airplane to the airside gate to go to the terminal building after having just landed and taxied in when I was accosted by someone who works the ramp and was told that I was not allowed on the ramp without a green high vis vest.

So I stood beside him and pointed out that my Blaze Orange Flight suit made his vest look dark.

I also told him to go f.ck himself.....

Guess what...I had to wear a vest over my suit or I was threatened with a fine....

Nuts, crazy, unbeleivable, where has common sense gone.

Bureaucrats are the biggest problem we have in this world and it is about time we just took a stand by never going to an airport again....at least those morons would have to find another place to ply their trade.

Chuck

[BoeingBoy]

Thanks for the posts everybody.

I'll chase up the links placed above when I have a few spare minutes from flying a Boeing!

Mazzy, the Stearman and Chipmuck have now gone from LPL. I think they have a cub or Citabria for Aero's/Tailwheel but I havn't been to LFS for a while.

[WelshFlyer]

It's nice to hear of someone who likes the coarser end of flying (or the finer end depending on your viewpoint)

My dream is bush flying in Canada. My plan is to go out next year or the year after if I don't have a suitable licence next year (and it looks liek it'll be 2 years time:{ )

Hope you find a crop sprayer and have a good time. BTW I can provide details of a crop spraying instructor in canada, but that's a bit far away.

WF.

[mazzy1026]

Mazzy, the Stearman and Chipmuck have now gone from LPL. I think they have a cub or Citabria for Aero's/Tailwheel but I havn't been to LFS for a while.

It is still there in the hangar so it must have changed hands or something and may not be available for hire. I am there on Sunday, I will take a look and make some enquiries!

Cheers

Maz

[MLS-12D]

Wow, Chuck; that's quite a story. :ooh:

I am happy that we don't have all this high-viz vest nonsense in North America; but I'm not too smug, since the disease may spread here in time (the recent introduction of "landing fees" at some airports - which I refuse to fly into, natch - doesn't suggest to me that our own airport managers have much sense).

[Chuck Ellsworth]

MLS-12D :

Yeh it is really getting stupid.

There is only two possible end results with all this bureaucratic B.S. that is screwing our industry.

(1) We will all lose intrest and leave aviation to the morons sitting in their offices, with zero aircraft movements comes 100% safety.

(2) More people will follow my exemplary example and just tell e'm to f.ck off.

Chuck

[BoeingBoy]

Mazzy, I presume the Stearman was away last time I was at LPL then. I know it was up for sale and assumed it had been sold.

Chuck, Thanks for sharing your story. It reminded me of my early years starting as a dogsbody at GA airfields and getting my time together through towing and instructing before falling into the well worn paths to the airlines more by accident than intention.

It's funny, but I gave up GA to avoid doing weeks of night mail runs in the late 70's. What did I acheive? 25 years of night flights to the Greek Islands....That's career progression for you!:rolleyes:

[Davidt]

Only partly right about liverpool, the flying club Chipmunk has been sold.

But another one has arrived G-BCSL ex-Barton - its group owned and there are shares for sale. pm me if interested.

The Stearman was there as of last Saturday, I dont know the exact story but understand it has a new owner recently and may be available to a select few but dont quote me on that ask liverpool Flying School or Keenair?

[MLS-12D]

This thread (http://www.pprune.org/forums/showthread.php?threadid=147975) provides a list of places in Canada offering instruction in ag flying (and no visa problems here!).

[BoeingBoy]

DavidT, Has the group that ran 'SL at Barton now disbanded or has it just moved home to LPL?

I must get over to fly the Ravenair PA28 and keep current soon so I will pop my head round the door to see whats happening at LFS.

Thanks for letting me know anyway.

BB