Motor glider wanted

[Sensible]

I'm looking to buy a TWO seater motorglider preferably side by side and something a bit sexier than a Motor Falk. It is for operating off of a less than perfect grass strip. Can anybody make any suggestions please?

[Chilli Monster]

Grob 109. Come up for sale occasionally and sounds like what you want. Either that or a Dimona.

[Skylark4]

SZD 45 Ogar. Hell of a lot cheaper than a Grob or a Dimona.
Share available at Hinton-in-the-Hedges.

Mike W

[Virginia Plane]

Helluvalot cheaper but a really nasty thing to fly. I did a lot of instructing in one 15ish years ago and was glad to see the back of it! I'd rather have been in a Falke!

[UV]

Grob 109 B shares available, based at North Weald. £3500 each.
PM if interested.
UV

[Josh10524]

109's are fun, side by side. I fly an A model. I understand the B model is even better.

[Sensible]

Thanks for the share offers, but I really want one to buy outright, purely so that I can base it in Sussex and can get to fly it often.

[Flyin'Dutch']

Motorgliders are per definition 2 seaters.

109Bs are a lot better than the A. They look the same but there is where the similarity stops.

Most of the motorgliders are SBS. An exception is the RF series.Never flown one but it is reported that they are lovely to fly.

FD

[Virginia Plane]

RF5 is lovely but more light aircraft than motor glider...unless you get the excellent Sperber version.

[Aerobatic Flyer]

And, were it sold in the UK, the Pipistrel Sinus. Great fun.

[Skylark4]

Virginia,
"Nasty" is, I feel, a little harsh. Its not the easiest to fly but it is more comfortable, waterproof, has space for luggage behind the seats, doesn't write off props all the time, (pusher config), has a real turn and slip indicator, ( a piece of wool on the canopy), and isn't fabric covered. I agree that the Falke is better for instructing. The Ogar is OK for a private owner. With a clued up private owner who can apply some TLC it could be very good.
If a single seater is acceptable then there's no question, an RF is perfect. If the cash is there, a 109 is better than the Ogar due to the wobbly prop and if money is no object the Dimona is great. The ultimate of course is the Stemme if you want motor touring performance with self launching glider gliding performance as well. I have assumed that it's Touring Motor Gliders being considered here though.

Mike W

[Dan Winterland]

Dimonas are superior to 109s IMHO. I have lots of hours in 109s, only a few in Dimonas but those few have convinced me with it's better handling and better glide. The Super Dimona is the one to go for - you can even aerotow with it!

[Sensible]

Yes but who is selling one? Anyone know?

[Volume]

I think I recently read that an AVo 68 R (http://www.airliners.net/open.file?id=359681&WxsIERv=QVZPIFM2OCBTQU1CVVJP&WdsYXMg=VW50aXRsZWQ%3D&QtODMg=S29uaWdzZG9yZg%3D%3D&ERDLTkt=R2VybWFueQ%3D%3D&ktODMp=SnVuZSAxLCAyMDAz&BP=1&WNEb25u=TWljaGFlbCBGcml0eg%3D%3D&xsIERvdWdsY=RC1LRkdO&MgTUQtODMgKE=QSBsb3Qgb2YgdHJhZmZpYyBmb3IgdGhpcyBzbWFsbCBnbGl kZXIgZmllbGQuLi4gLS0tIE9seW1wdXMgQy03MjA%3D&YXMgTUQtODMgKERD=MTAw&NEb25uZWxs=MjAwMy0wNi0wMg%3D%3D&ODJ9dvCE=&O89Dcjdg=MDI0&static=yes&size=L) ´Samburo´ converted to the Rotax 912 with hydraulic constant speed is for sale.
On first view it really is not ´a bit sexier than a Motor Falk´;) (to be true it looks :yuk: ), but on second view it is. 80hp is more than enough for the very light Samburo, it climbs like hell and runs 200 km/h single seated on 12 l/h economic cruise. Glider towing is allowed up to 600kg, but from personal experience it is limited to single seaters. Engine control is single lever for throttle and constant speed prop, airfoil is the same as Ka6E, so no comparison to the Falk. Much less drag and low rain sensibility. Stall characteristics are perfect. The undercarriage handles bad grass strips as well as 35 kt crosswind (I tried both myself). It has an additional ´long range tank´ in the left wing which can be transferred to main tank by an electric pump (which needs ages to do so) and gives you about 6h endurance. Only real drawback is the elevator trim.

[Flik Roll]

I can seriously recommend the Grob 109B - i have done the majority of my flying in it; and its is a great little aircraft.
Very good with economy of fuel, even with the engine on all the time. Good fun engine off but can get very hot in the summer! Landing it takes a few hours of practise to get it just right. In the cruise you can get more than 90kts and in coarse it bimbles nicely at 60kts. Nice comfy interior and excellent visiblity. I have done over 120hrs in them and haven't really much in the way of bad comments about it; except they can be quite succeptable to carb icing, so generally at 2300 rpm or below fly with carb heat hot if it's one of those days.

You can have great fun confusing convential gliders...circle with full power in a patch of sink; 9/10 times they dont realise you have an engine :E

Flik

[MLS-12D]

SZD 45 Ogar. Hell of a lot cheaper than a Grob or a Dimona.See further the article "An Ogar Story: from not quite an ugly duckling to not quite a swan" (http://www.sac.ca/ff/05_01.pdf), in the 01/05 issue of Free Flight, page 14.

Helluvalot cheaper but a really nasty thing to fly. I did a lot of instructing in one 15ish years ago and was glad to see the back of it!I have never flown an Ogar, but personally I would not be interested in an aircraft with a reported best L/D of 15:1. :ooh:

[Skylark4]

The published figure for the Ogar is 28:1, exactly the same as the 109. I don't know where they got that 15:1 figure from. It's also the same as an Oly 2b and I did my Silver in that back in about 1965, Colerne to Swansea, about 125 k if memory serves. Well I always promised my Mother in Law that I would turn up with my glider one day and I did, complete with a hungry, four person retrieve crew.

Due to medical problems, my share of the Ogar is seriously up for sale. If anyone is interested, drop me a PM. Based at Hinton -in-the-Hedges

Mike W

[pheeel]

If you have the money have you looked at the Ximango...

http://www.ximango.com/ingles/

had a couple of rides in one and its a lovely machine...

[fox golf]

I've flown in the above mentioned Ogar and wouldn't consider it remotely 'nasty' to fly.
Handling seems fine, visibility is good, it's a lot more roomy than a falke and costs about the same to run (cheap). The trim is notched and small changes of throttle may be needed to remove all pressure from the stick. It cruises at 70 kts and is an aircraft that gets noticed - if you like aircraft with character then this is worth a look.
Landings require a certain ammount of care but this will only sharpen up the pilot.
Ground handling requires a lot of care.
It will turn a hell of a lot tighter (on the ground) than a falke... or it won't turn at all, at least not the way you want it to.
Ogar pilots plan ahead when taxiing and, depending on wind direction, may have to turn the opposite way to which they want in order to go that way - if that makes sense.
It's similar to a tail dragger, except you can't ditch the prop, in that you are considered to be flying until you come to a halt.

All in; it's cheap flying with character and a degree of comfort. It's so called faults aren't applicable in flight and will only make you a better pilot.

[yellowperil]

I'm surprised no one's mentioned the Stemme S-10...

http://www.stemme.de/

yp

[buster172]

Hi,

I'm another Grob109/Vigilant pilot.

I have no other TMG experience but I can tell you it’s a lovely aircraft. Visibility is excellent and it has good performance. It took me a while to get the hang of it in a cross wind though, taxi and landing :}

However, compared to the Cessna I fly, I would take the Grob every time.

All the best for your search,

Kind regards,

Buster

[Footless Halls]

Just a thought, but why don't you truck over to Oxfordshire Sportflying at Enstone? They have a Dimona and Grob 109 which you can rent.

This isn't meant as a 'plug' for them - just might save you time..