Air Rules: Can ATC ever cancel an IFR Flight Plan?

[greg1]

...when airborne and while ac is under an IFR flight plan, without the pilot requesting so? If yes, under what circumstances can this be imposed by ATC (if ever)? Can the pilot refuse?

I stress, not pilot-initiated (eg when declaring "visual contact" during an instrument approach/descent)

------------------
------------------------
(Th)ink Rate! Don't (Th)ink! Don't (Th)ink!

[Warped Factor]

Not in the UK, here only the pilot can cancel their IFR plan.

WF.

[ATCO Two]

Hi greg1,

The short answer is no - ATC cannot initiate cancellation of an IFR flight plan.

I quote from MATS Part 1-6, "IFR flight plans shall only be cancelled when the pilot uses the expression, 'cancel IFR flight plan.' Pilots must not be invited to cancel but if there is any doubt about a pilot's intentions he may be asked if he wishes to cancel his IFR flight plan'.

Even in the UK under the circumstances you describe, where a pilot reports visual or requests a visual approach, the IFR status will still apply, and standard separation will be applied between his and all other IFR flights.

[beaglepup]

What if?
IFPS aka Brussels [so called] "flight plans" say that a pilot cannot fly Leeds [EGNM] to Cambridge [EGSC] via UPTON GAM but must and I repeat MUST file airways [POL A2 TNT etc]
WHY???????????????

[eyeinthesky]

Because as I understand it IFPS only looks after airways routings, and you are talking about an off airways route. The only way you would get it agreed would perhaps to put in the Remarks section that it is an IFR flight off airways. I am only guessing, and it is a braver man than me who will try and second guess the workings of IFPS Brussels.

[Hooligan Bill]

IFPS do deal with off airways IFR plans. There are plenty of airports outside controlled airspace and they file/get their plans via the system.

[Hooligan Bill]

Beaglepup,

The Upton SID off EGNM is label as being for L975 (B1) eastbound. Technically you are leaving controlled airspace at Upton on track to GAM and not going eastbound. Try filing UPTON GOLES DCT GAM and see what happens.

[beaglepup]

HB,
The pilot filed UPTON, GAM CAM. IFPS routed him A2!
Aparently, certain airfields have shorter SID limits than others. EGNT/NV can route dct OTR with no probs

[greg1]

ATCO Two et al.,

Thank you!

------------------
------------------------
(Th)ink Rate! Don't (Th)ink! Don't (Th)ink!

[Hooligan Bill]

BP,

Strange one this. UPTON is actually defined as a radial and DME from GAM and the EGNM UPTON SID actually uses GAM. The only thing I can think of is the 'flawed' logic the IFPS computer sometimes throws up. As I said before the UPTON SID is for L975 (B1) eastbound traffic. Leaving CAS at UPTON while obvious to a human, fools the computer because you are meant to be going down L975 on that routing. The EGNM POL SID actually mentions traffic leaving CAS at TNT. I think it therefore applies that logic and re-routes via A2. Therefore I still think UPTON L975 GOLES DCT GAM will solve the problem as the computer will think you are going eastbound on L975. Odds are ATC will then route DCT GAM from UPTON.

[beaglepup]

HB,
Here's [yet] another one.
EGNE to EGGD. Pilot files GAM-LIC-GLO-BRI.
IFPS say join CAS at LIC and fly B53-A25!!!
[This was a human who decided this route]

[Hooligan Bill]

BP,

So what happened? Did he go all the way to WAL or did Manc let him cut the corner at NANTI?

[beaglepup]

HB,
As he had filed A035, he went VFR. We would have sent a Dep anyway.
There are lots of anomilies with IFPS and their routing policy [or lack of]

[Numpo-Nigit]

When I visited the IFPS in Brussels about a year ago, the staff in the section dealing with UK-originating flight plans were all Croatian!!! It is hardly surprising that they do not understand the intricacies of the UK route structure, just as I know very little about the routes around Dubrovnik.
However, how many people from the UK, with the appropriate knowledge, want to work in Brussels doing what is effectively the same as LATCC FPRS? And, even if they did, wouldn't the system put them on flight plans from Athens? What an amzing bureaucracy!!!