View Full Version : Abu Dhabi contract - any news?
Echo Oscar
23rd Mar 2001, 21:14
Abu Dhabi contract was due to be re-signed by Serco or given to Thales this week.
Anyone know how it went?
EO
Fly Through
24th Mar 2001, 15:12
Looks 90% like serco have lost the contract and are hoping Thales won't be able to staff the contract in the coming weeks, so serco would get it back by default.
Does sound like it could be a political decision to oust serco.
Any jobs going?
Echo Oscar
25th Mar 2001, 00:27
I'm not entirely sure what's going on but remain hopeful of some employment opportunities. Keep looking and listening...
fweeeeep
25th Mar 2001, 05:55
Quick Question EO.
There are openings at the moment, or are you not prepared to work for Serco ?
Fweeeeep.
Fly Through
25th Mar 2001, 11:49
Excuse me for butting in Fweep.
There are openings coming up at the UAE centre and Dubai but they will be offered to any displaced serco controllers first then offered outside.
As for working for serco, same as any other employer really but it's not too bad out here especially if you're a single person.
Rgds
Echo Oscar
25th Mar 2001, 15:13
Fweeeeep/Fly Through
Always looking, but as an ATC Engineer (Manager) as that's my thing!?! Serco have lots of fingers in many different pies in the engineering ans support services world.
I remain caution of 'contract' changes as heads roll and hasty decisions can be made by those most ill-informed. Hoping to see/hear some news in the next day or so.
Meanwhile - do you know if anyone else has heard where exactly this is going?
EO
Echo Oscar
26th Mar 2001, 11:43
Just wondering if you're hearing anything from management 'in-country'?
Fly Through
26th Mar 2001, 13:52
Management seem to know diddly squat about what is going on but they can be excused as it seems that the DCA are not answering any phone calls. So a year after the contract was meant to be resigned the DCA have still not made up their minds so Serco is trying to force the issue.
As for jobs for engineers, I'm sure Thales will be looking desperately if they have the contract but I've not heard of any vacancies within serco.
Not much of an answer I'm afraid but it's all those at the coalface know right now ;)
Echo Oscar
27th Mar 2001, 12:19
Thanks for the 'coalface' opition! Project Management for both companies here seem to be flapping and 'faffing' about.
Is this a typical speed of decision making for the region? If so, should make work even more of a challenge (if it happens).
Always appreciative of any news...
EO
Fweep and flythrough, you guys are living in la la land. If you think working for Serco is OK then you must be South African and you haven't worked for anyone else other than ATNS or anywhere else. Then again who would hire you, wouldn't be me.
Thales have received a letter of intent from the DCA a few weeks ago and as far as I am aware would be signing the contract about now. If you have lived there you would know about "enshalah" which means the contract could also be signed next month. Serco will try to thwart Thales 3 month transition at every point including staffing and I am sure they will transfer some of the AUH approach staff to DXB or GCAA contracts as they need to fill some holes.
Serco had to send Grant Rumbles (who is currently assisting the NATS bid in the UK)back to UAE post haste as they got caught a bit with their pants down, in an attempt to rescue the situation there. Shutting the gate after the horse has bolted. They should have tried to rectify things a few years back and they may still have the DCA contract.
thats the story
Fly Through
27th Mar 2001, 19:34
PMS,
You must have a hell of a sore back carrying that huge chip around all day. No I'm not South African but I work with lots of them and they are better than alot of the old farts stuck in the UK.
Yes we don't earn as much as you probably used to do but we still get a decent wage, good conditions and a great place to live. But then I came from a non-Nats unit so I didn't recieve the buckets of cash you probably get PMS.
As for the Abu Dhabi contract, Thales have thrown in a deal on a new radar with the contract, I hear and I can guarentee that Serco will not be trying to thwart Thales take over, can't risk upsetting the DCA, the customer. Just hope Thales do a better a job than at Manston, where they couldn't manage to maintain the manning levels.
As for the controllers from Abu Dhabi & Al Ain, yes Serco do look after their own so they will try and find us other placements.
That might change in a few weeks when Thales screw up the contract and we have to rush in to save their bacon.
Now that's the real story.
Echo Oscar
27th Mar 2001, 19:39
Fly Through,
Are you not expecting Thales to make you an offer to stay? Surely they can't produce enough staff to fill all of the slots froom scratch?
EO
Flythrough,
you work in Al Ain so you have probably fried your brain in the sun while trying to separate the 5 movements a day there.
you are barking up the wrong tree buster. I am not a tea bag and have never worked for Nats. If you like Serco then you can have them. Thales would be better off without your services and others like you.
fweeeeep
28th Mar 2001, 07:59
PMS
I however am South African, but you don't really care whom it is you hurl abuse at anyway.
Al Ain as a matter of interest is one of the busiest airports in the GULF. They move a phenomenal amount of traffic without radar, and to add to this, these guys are mostly training flights, IFR & VFR. The mix is Hawks, Gazelles, PC7's and GROB's. I take my hat off to the guys in Al Ain for a tremendous job that they do. Oh and before you say it, yes even though it is mostly VFR military, they all need traffic information, clearances, and RT time.
I know for a fact that they worked an average of 69 per hour over a 10-hour period in the not too recent past.
So, when you want to start talking rubbish, at least try and get reasonable touch of truth in there before you start.
Fweeeeep
tungsten
28th Mar 2001, 09:46
Fly Through & fweeeep
There is no cure for PMS, or maybe just this one. Maybe he should get counseling for his deeply embedded hatred. Lots of anger in there, can't you just feel the anger glowing from the screen?
Now that every one knows what is happening to serco in the UK and UAE, he needs to take it out on something else.You still haven't tried that cure MR PMS have you?
Lets all take a moment - for this poor creature.
For Tungsten, Fweep and flythrough,
No hatred, bitterness or the like. Just reality. You guys from the DARK continent just cant see when you are being used and abused and I don't intend to teach you. I am just stating the fact about Serco and you can gloss over it any way you want. FACTS are FACTS no matter what way you look at it.
As for tungsten, well you should never assume what sex a bulletin board poster is, because you will probably be wrong on that score too.
Echo Oscar
28th Mar 2001, 19:09
A question for you guys Serco'ing at the moment. Is your contract with Serco dependent on them being contracted by the DCA? In other words, if they lose the Abu Dhabi game will you (all) be moved on around Serco-land, or be looking for new contracts yourselves?
This is all very confusing. Perhaps I should call BAE Systems.
EO
EO
Serco are a very profit motivated company as I am sure you are aware. What these guys do not realise is that if they have no room for them or just don't want them they will dump them, that is the nature of the beast unfortunately. Dont be fooled by their bravado of "serco will look after us" hype. That is not how Serco play the game. you get 90 days notice and the game is up.
PMS
yakkity
29th Mar 2001, 10:54
PMS,
So i guess if anybody does not hail from Downunnda, we are all living in a dream world. Most of us are well aware that Serco is a profit driven organisation , however some people don't have the choices available to others. Automatically assuming that anybody who replys to your rantings on here is South African is very narrow minded.
As an afterthought , are you really surprised Serco didn't take you back when Bahrain was looking.
Take Care.
fweeeeep
29th Mar 2001, 12:50
Thanks yakkity,
In the same line, there is no difference between Seco and other contract companies, they are filling a need, and they employ people to meet that requirement. People who work for serco on these contracts know that when the contract is lost, they will either get offered a job with serco elsewhere, get offered a job in the same position but with the new company or be required to move on. It is no major problem, it goes with the territory and is accepted as such.
PMS - what is your point, ... exactly ?
Fweeep,
My point that I was trying to make to EO was the vagaries of contract employment whether it be Serco or anyone else for that matter. He is obviously interested so I was just letting him know the lay of the land, no harm in that.
As for yakkity, you like tungsten tend to assume to much. Yes I am an Aussie but I have been out of it for a few years now and safely ensconsed back in Oz in the land of the sand shoe, yes doing ATC, so what is this crap about Bahrain. better get your facts right before you point the finger, mate!
Echo Oscar
29th Mar 2001, 16:50
To all who are dropping little pointers about contracting - thanks. As it's a new game to me I do appreciate it.
The 'differing opinions' discussion also is just what the word says - opinion. Everyone's got their own. IF I end up in Abu Dhabi I'll surely make some up myself.
Of course, as an engineer, opinions about ATCO's are...........
Only kidding folks,
EO
Tweety
29th Mar 2001, 19:47
To all concerned,
I have been watching all the postings on the BB by PMS, tungsten, coast, fweep and yakkity and others and read with amusment.
The way I see it is that PMS was only offering some advice to EO and seems that the mere mention of South Africans and Serco has struck a sore point with the others. As a disinterested 3rd party maybe PMS has unknowingly told things the way they really are and those still there are trying to justify their existence there. So I suggest that you bullies get off PMS's back and work on ways to improve your situation not dwell on how bad things really are.
You should all get a life.
Echo Oscar
29th Mar 2001, 22:28
Tweety, et al -
There's obviously an 'ethnic' problem here, although I'm not sure who is the minority!
My style runs along the lines of :- I don't care if you're Aussie, South African, Yank, Welsh or EVEN English - as long as you fit in with the 'gang' and the work is done. It simply has to be that way. People who can't cope with that are history in my dept.
Still hoping to hear some REAL news, though.
EO
yakkity
29th Mar 2001, 23:27
PMS,
Well if all you were trying to do was get a point across to EO , then your last posting was the way to have placed it. I'm sure you would have been given more support on the issue at hand if you hadn't been so volatile in your postings.
For pointing fingers, well i never did or had that intention, the only thing i will apologise to you for is making an assumption , and that is of your real identity.I made an assumption on your past rantings that i was aware of who you are, however i was wrong.
So I will publically apologise for the Bahrain remark. http://www.pprune.org/ubb/NonCGI/redface.gif
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Follow the Yellow Brick Road!
Fly Through
30th Mar 2001, 13:19
EO - Hear,hear couldn't have put it better myself. Thales haven't been in touch with anyone, on this part of the contract anyway so what the hell they're playing at god only knows. As for serco, another meeting tomorrow, maybe some one in the DCA has finally made a decision.
As for PMS well Yakkity definitely got it right. I'm telling how it is from my experience only okay. Serco have said they'll keep us all on, I believe them because I've been through this before at Liverpool. They screwed that contract up big style but they did luck after all the staff.
Tweety - Improve my situation? Why I've no complaints at all, either way the cookie crumbles my colleaugues and I are gonna be taken care of, so we're all happy. I think most people on this thread weren't happy with the way PMS made his point, not what he had to say.
http://www.pprune.org/ubb/NonCGI/tongue.gif
[This message has been edited by Fly Through (edited 30 March 2001).]
Echo Oscar
30th Mar 2001, 14:55
Fly Through,
Thanks for that. The impression I got from Thales was that they would (presumeably) be offering new contracts to some people already in situ. I expect this would be subject to ATC/Eng/Met/HR management type stuff and actually seeing who wants to stay.
I expect they'll get a fright if everyone up sticks and moves on with Serco...
EO
Thanks Tweety,
Yes I probably could have written my initial posting a little differently. THere was no intention to infuriate or malign any one nationality. That is not my style. Like Yakkity (who I now respect for publicly apologising) I too apologise for any anguish I have caused the others.
Flythrough your devotion and trust in your employer is admirable, but dare I say, a little naive. I hope Serco does look after you all like you think, however I do have my doubts about their integrity. Let me know how it goes when all the dust has settled.
[This message has been edited by PMS (edited 30 March 2001).]
Tweety
30th Mar 2001, 19:23
Hi again all,
Good to see that the fur has stopped flying for now and that you are all behaving like adults again. I hope that at least EO realises that contract employment has it problems.
Freedom of speech was being exercised by PMS and then a whole bunch descended on him/her. You are also entitled to you say. God save the travelling public if this is what goes on in an ATC centre. Please stay professional ladies and gents.
Iwill be watching you all further.
Tweety
Legs11
30th Mar 2001, 23:20
flythrough did you transit sheffield recently?
Fly Through
31st Mar 2001, 00:48
Legs 11 - 'fraid not. You wouldn't be thinking of JFS would you?
Tweety - Behave like an adult? Never. As for what it's like at a unit, much more name calling, dummies out of the cot and eyes scratched out .... honest. http://www.pprune.org/ubb/NonCGI/tongue.gif
Now to sit in a corner and say,"Wibble"
Echo Oscar
31st Mar 2001, 15:40
How do you say 'wibble' in Arabic? Or, is it just 'wibble' in any language?
EO
TwoDogs
1st Apr 2001, 16:30
Does anybody in this thread know Brett Walton, ex Hong Kong ? Is he in AlAin.
Could somebody pass him a message to e-mail 2dogs please.
Fly Through
1st Apr 2001, 17:02
Yep he's here 2 dogs I'll tell him to drop you a line :)
TwoDogs
2nd Apr 2001, 15:03
Thanks Fly through ... contact established.
Echo Oscar
2nd Apr 2001, 19:47
Any Abu Dhabi news today? Who's doing what? When? Whatever?
I'd love to know.
EO
Fly Through
2nd Apr 2001, 23:07
EO,
Serco is planning to pull out on 30th June, taking as many of the staff as possible with them.
Thales haven't been seen or heard from so far and the DCA are strangely silent on the subject, suppose you could take that either way.
I wait with baited breathe for the next installment of 'Life in the Sand Pit' :)
Echo Oscar
3rd Apr 2001, 00:55
Me too!!
EO
Flythrough,
Are you in management in AL Ain. from my previous experience Serco will only give the notice when they have been given it by the customer. I would suggest that this is the case despite what you say, unless you are management and know more. IF you are then let us all in on what is going on.
Serco does not have enough positions to fill in Dubai, Bahrain or ACC for all the staff at the three airports. I see that 4 have been offered posts and they say that they will try to offer you other guys posts, and I wish you well. Dont be surprised if you are not offered one though. The next contract to go will be the ACC contract or maybe even Dubai. This is just the beginning of the end for Serco there.
Keep us all informed as we are all curious.
Yodeller
3rd Apr 2001, 19:14
2 Dogs, is that you? Why do I ask? Back some years we all worked xxxxx Approach together, if it is. And Brett Walton.
However, back to the big sand pit, Serco are quick enough to axe (or knife) unwanted managers. What makes anyone think they will keep their promises to their subordinate staff. Remember how loyal a certain recent MTS was....
Yodeller
3rd Apr 2001, 19:22
Two Dogs, is that you? Why do I ask, I hear you say. "rurglars, rurglars". Ah, good times away from the great Abu Dhabi cesspit.
For all you hopefuls, remember, Serco are quick to axe (knife) management, so what chance their loyalty to subordinate staff.
Management incompetence, shareholder stakes, guarding one`s behind, that is what Serco are all about. Good riddance to them, and good luck to all their honest, overworked staff in finding greener pastures (literally).
to all you Serco DCA staff in AUH and AL Ain.
If you guys are so confident that Serco is going to look after you, then why has Serco advertised in Flight International for controllers, seems rather strange to me.
I have to agree with the yodeller on what he says (and also reiterates what I have said), I think you guys will be on the heap. What do you have to say to that flythough, fweep and yakkity.
We will have to see what transpires over the next few months. Till another time
SID_Nasty
4th Apr 2001, 17:48
fweep, yakkity & fly through
I have to agree with PMS and Yodeller also. If you guys think for one minute Serco will retain your services after 30th June when the contracts go in Al Ain and Abu Dhabi - you are living in fantasy world. For the majority of you, take good advice and either leave gracefully or face the disappointment. Those of you who have been fortunate enough to be offered posts in Dubai. God bless you !! You are needed there !! For the rest. Its quite clear they are trying to retain staff loyalty by inducement in an attempt to thwart Thales take over. I think it is time you seriously considered .. deserting the sinking ship.
Before you make your decisions. Consider the achievements of Serco M.E.
1. Engineering contract lost - Ras al Kaimah
2. Aviation College Dubai - No Serco representation anymore.
3. Abu Dhabi & Al Ain - Contracts lost.
4. NATS - Bid for contract. LOST !!
5. Dubai - see whats gonna happen next !!
If you guys were betting men. Would you put your money on a horse like that ?
Case rested ........ QED
[This message has been edited by SID_Nasty (edited 04 April 2001).]
[This message has been edited by SID_Nasty (edited 04 April 2001).]
Further to what SID Nasty had to say,
I would think that the GCAA contract would be up for Serco in 2 or 3 years and Thales or similiar would probably have the running for this if all goes well for the DCA contract.
Serco is obviously getting the blunt end of the stick that it probably deserves, and surprisingly at the helm of Grant Rumbles and Co. I think that his time will be short lived and also that of Serco's
May they rest in peace. Good luck to you all
Echo Oscar
6th Apr 2001, 21:57
Question to anyone in the know:-
Are there any more Middle East contracts coming up for, or overdue for renewal soon?
EO
Scareface Claw
7th Apr 2001, 13:04
Does anybody on this thread know the Thales address? There are a number of ATCO in NZ still interested in overseas employment and may wish to contact them.
Post it here and I will pass it on to those interested. Thanks!
Echo Oscar
9th Apr 2001, 13:22
www.thalesgroup.com (http://www.thalesgroup.com)
Fly Through
10th Apr 2001, 17:54
Latest gossip for you.
Shiek Hamdan of the DCA has told anyone who will listen that Serco have got the contract, subject final negotiation on price. (It's like shopping at a bleedin' souk http://www.pprune.org/ubb/NonCGI/tongue.gif)
Executive Council Meeting of the Goverment today (10/04) will make the final decision.
Strangely, all through this nobody I know got any calls/letters/e-mails from Thales??
Oh well,probably all change tomorrow http://www.pprune.org/ubb/NonCGI/tongue.gif
Standard_Departure
12th Apr 2001, 08:02
Hmmm,
So "THEY HAVE IT" subject to "Some minor details like PRICE" ... No sign No contract, that's what I say.
10 , 11 , 12 , ummm final decision ?? ..
Fly Through
15th Apr 2001, 18:43
Serco have just canceled all the termination notices of all the assistants but won't confirm that the contract has been signed.
Christ, this is never ending. Don't know who to blame the Arabs or Serco just wish they'd get it sorted.
ShooTheGap
20th Apr 2001, 23:55
Rumour has it that hiring contracts for dubai are going out...as the Abu Dhabi situation has been resolved... Anybody in the know???
Echo Oscar
21st Apr 2001, 18:21
Heard from Thales that they do NOT have the contract, therefore are not employing....
yakkity
21st Apr 2001, 19:49
Hey SID_Nasty,
I don't recall ever having stated that i am in the Emirate of Abu Dhabi. I was once upon a time though. Plus i have never stated that Serco are or ever were /will be the bees knees in the ME. Believe me i don't live in a dream world.
PMS, hey there.. Serco do advertise on the odd occasion in Flight, it generally is to see how many around the world are still interested in employment with them. To keep the coffers full so to speak.
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Follow the Yellow Brick Road!