Heathrow

[surface wind]

There are rumors flying around that there are going to be compulsory postings to LL. Has anyone heard anything????

[cossack]

I've not heard that one up here yet. It poses a few questions though:
From where? (Robbing Peter to pay Paul!)
Who? (Volunteers or volunteered!)
How selected? (Names in a hat!)
Incentives? (£££'s)

[1261]

There are VERY strong rumours at EGPH that two ATCOs are to receive compulsary postings out in the near future, who.... nobody knows (or nobody will say, take your pick), where.... nobody knows (etc., etc.)

Of course, these are just rumours.......

[Evil Jethro]

We are all mobile grades and agreed to be posted as required when we signed up.

[Bright-Ling]

Yes...I know we are a mobile grade. Yes...I know what that means.

But to compuslory post somebody for no real reason is senseless.

After all, if you don't want to be somewhere, you probably WON'T validate.....either by "throwing" it or due to too much personal upheaval.

Won't cost much......posting people to ATCO 2 units, relocating the, and then returning them to their (probably) original unit.

So much for One volunteer being worth 10 pressed men. Maybe they should do a bit of PR in encouraging people out of quieter airfields and invest in those who want and have the ability to go.

There is nothing worse than wasting trg time on someone who doesn't want to be there.

IF IT AIN'T BROKE....DON'T TRY TO FIX IT!

[This message has been edited by Bright-Ling (edited 22 March 2001).]

[Bright-Ling]

EJ....you only said that because you want to escape!

Rumour has it that it was your Escape Tunnel that made the Heathrow Express hole collapse! You have been observed lifting the leg of your chinos and dropping soil under the deps desk.

This will NOT be tolerated....and the floggings WILL continue until morale improves!!!

[Gonzo]

Aha, so that's what the smell is! Either that or a regurgitation of a prawn cocktail! The things you said, EJ, while under the influence in sleepy Somerset! You never know some of them even surface. ;) ;) ;)

Back to the matter in hand, apparently the top brass say that when Thames/SVFR moves out of Heathrow, we will not be losing any tower valid atcos! Any bets anyone?

Gonzo

[surfingatco]

I don't know what you're all frightened of. I actually volunteered to be posted to Heathrow 18 years ago! If you validate :) it'll be the best years of your ATC career. It was the best 12 years of my ATC career - then we moved to LATCC/CCF/TC http://www.pprune.org/ubb/NonCGI/frown.gif

Nurse nurse - time for my medicine!!!!

[surface wind]

It is the thought that we may get posted to a unit that we may not wish to go to. I know we are a mobile grade and everything but with settled families etc who wants to move. There are also loads of rumors about the pass rate at LL and the attitude of the OJTI's?

[gul dukat]

I have to say that this "rumour" is doing the rounds and it seems like there is more than a little truth in it !!! How on earth will GM's choose ??(as the rumour here says that is how it will happen).Call me old fashioned but if I had to play God with someones quality of life...career...or general wellbeing I might be inclined to post someone who had become a pain in the butt!!! So look out EGLL some "quality " staff may be coming your way !!.As has been said earlier it must be easy to "fail" to validate at 'LL so what do management do then ?? Where is the incentive to validate? will it be financial??.Plodding round the M25 on a regular basis wondering at how little house your huge mortgage bought ,to be as busy as f&ck when you are perfectly content and productive where you are ??
Not an ideal way to ensure staff all pull together in a treehugging sort of way !!!

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"earth is full ....go home "

[surfingatco]

Gul Dukat hit the nail on the head - "Quality staff" You'll have no trouble with the OJTIs if you are quality, committed and willing to be top of the ATCO2 pay scale with London Weighting (just think of your pension)
The problem we've had in the past (and present) is getting the wrong candidates - you can't make a silk purse out of a cow's ear (or something) - that's what frustrates the OJTIs!
Anyway, GMC is now split so it must be easier than when I was there :)
Reverting to prima donna mode now ;)

[Bright-Ling]

SA.....what do you mean "reverting"!!!?!?!?!

Oh bugger.....there goes my career....!

[surfingatco]

Bright-Ling - got to live up to the stereotype :)
BTW, I used to have a career - now FAST does it for me :)
Nurse....NURSE....!!!!!

[Gonzo]

Surfacewind,

The failure rate at LL is high, yes, when compared to other units, but not excessive. In fact over the past year, and someone please step in to correct me if I'm wrong, but the pass rate has been better amongst the ab initios from CATC than amongst the posted in previously valid ATCOs.

As for the OJTIs, as with the instructors at CATC, some are better than others, some may suit your personality better than others. As long as you make an effort and appear enthusiastic, then that will be reflected by the OJTIs' efforts on your behalf.

Gonzo

[Bright-Ling]

SA......you told me you didn't use it!!!!

:)

[cleared2land 27left]

Gonzo,

Yes i would say that you are correct that more ab initios have passed of recent than previously valid atcos, which is interesting.

I am now (at last!) happily valid at LL :)

[This message has been edited by cleared2land 27left (edited 23 March 2001).]

[Gonzo]

Well hello there CTL27L

When you coming back to your proper watch, then?????<g>

Kudos, and apologies for trying to understand EJ on a mobile in the back of a minibus!

Gonzo

[Numpo-Nigit]

It's an interesting point if ab-initio controllers stand a better chance of validating at Heathrow than valid ATCOs from elsewhere. Without access to any statistics, I get the feeling that the same may well apply to LATCC, certainly in en-route. Has anybody got any theories as to why this may be?

Have the various units moved so far apart in their method of operation that habits and skills learned at ScATCC are not only of no use at LATCC, but are in fact a hindrance? Before I am attacked, I have nobody in mind, the units mentioned are for example only, and could be anything.

If that is the case, then two thoughts emerge.

1. Maybe we should no longer be a mobile grade. Where you validate is where you'll stay.

2. One area (or approach) course is not enough. We need courses tailored to the receiving unit, taught by instructors valid in the good (or bad) habits used at that unit.

However, before going down that route, with all its ramifications, is it possible that a significant proportion of those valid ATCOs who fail have a different agenda? Could it be that, with our notoriously anti-ATCO personnel policies, these people feel trapped somewhere and have to resort to a subterfuge to escape?

This subject may be "a can of worms" when opened, but it might shed some light on a whole variety of problems - recruitment, retention, failure rates, training plans, etc.

Any thoughts anyone?

[passepartout]

1261,
Got us all panicking, at ph at the mo we have people moving house, having children,setting up small businesses...any further news?

[HEATHROW DIRECTOR]

I don't know if it can be proven that validated ATCOs from elsewhere are less likely to validate than "new boys". However, age is obviously on the side of those straight out of Bournemouth. I know of several ATCOs who have validated at EGLL for the first time when they were well into their 40s and with plenty of previous experience, but they are a rare breed.

I have always believed that a crucial factor is whether the person really wanted to be at Heathrow. I dreamt of it when I was a kid and have enjoyed every minute of it, despite the various background "problems", etc. I have always ask newly-posted trainees if they were pleased with their posting. An enthusiastic "yes" has usually produced a successful controller. A "not bloody likely, I wanted Sumburgh" usually means they're on their bikes next week... I'm not sure my theories would be considered as successful management technique though....

[halo]

A few points:
1) Compulsary postings into Heathrow will not solve the staffing problems. It will worsen them!!
2) Unless you really have a burning desire to be at Heathrow then you are unlikely to put your heart and soul into training and therefore are unlikely to validate
3) There is nothing wrong with the OJTIs at Heathrow, they are no different from the ones at all the other units.
4) The only way to attract people to Heathrow/TC/LATCC is for NATS to start helping the staff out with the overwhelming problem of extortionate property prices within the London Area. After all, if you can't afford to live there, then you are unlikely to be happy there.
5) Has anybody in NATS thought about why people don't want to go to Heathrow/TC/LATCC?? Or why people want to leave Heathrow/TC/LATCC?? £200K to buy a ****ty house...Wow, sounds like an attractive proposition!! Especially when you can buy a 3 bed semi in Manchester for £80K. Anybody spot the difference??
6) Has anybody in NATS thought more about why people don't want to go to Heathrow/TC/LATCC?? Lots of stress, sleepless nights, lots of grief, busy RT, complicated airspace restrictions, insane noise restrictions, need I go on??

Comments please..........

[Warped Factor]

But on the 1st April Outer London Weighting goes up £46 to a whopping £1,475, surely we'll be fighting folk off, they'll all want to come :rolleyes:

WF.

[cleared2land 27left]

Will the issue of very poor level of London weighting be taken on seriously? With the recent rocketing of house prices in the South East it is nigh on impossible to buy anything that is either:
a- of a size larger than a garden shed
b- is actually located somwhere that you wouldn't mind living

Gonzo, I am happy here now thanks and it was not to bad trying to understand EJ even if he had consumed some, sorry lots of beer!

Numpo, if people stay where they were originally posted does that mean that you will no longer be able to put in a posting request?



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"Somebody said I was the weakest link.....so I said goodbye"