ATC Assistants

[Bizzy]

How does someone 'go about' applying for the post of ATCA? There does not seem to be anything about it on the NATS website - just ATCO's

[Spotnik]

Actually, we're known as ATSA's these days - Air Traffic Services Assistants, and if Serco get their way then we're a dying breed. However a number have been recruited in recent years on short term contracts, but the long-term problems of UK ATC has meant many of these people have been taken on permanently. I don't know if any are being recruited at the moment - best thing to do is enquire directly of NATS.

Best of luck - its a very enjoyable job.

[HEATHROW DIRECTOR]

...and a highly responsible and important job too...

[LXGB]

Hey Spotnik,
Serco love Assistants, they even send them on controllers courses (sometimes). Serco are probably the world’s largest private employer of ATCAs/ATSAs/AATCs/FOAs (delete as appropriate depending on where you want to work).

Cheers,
LXGB.

[Mr Chips]

I want to work at LATCC as an ATSA, but SERCO have stated ON RECORD that they will cut ATSAs.

Please comment on that LXGB.

[Vlad the Impaler]

and hoping soon to be the worlds largest sacker of the above. So help us god !!!

[Spotnik]

Go on LXGB, make me laugh - what do Serco pay assistants and what are the terms and conditions like?

[Hotel Tango]

At my unit (somewhere in Europe) we are now called Flight Data Specialists. Our management has for the past ten years been trying to do away with us too. So far they have failed miserably. In fact our workload has increased so much that they have had to recruit more! ATCAs, ATSAs FDAs are probably the most underrated people in ATC. Sure we don't vector aircraft all over the sky but if we do our job well we certainly contribute greatly in easing the controllers' workload. And, when the system goes pear shaped the assistants play a pivotal role in the back-up procedures. Don't worry guys and gals we will still be here long after controllers and pilots have been dispensed with :) :)

[LXGB]

Spotnik,
Last time I checked, most Serco ATCAs were on about £14,000 p.a. That's not too bad is it?
As for working conditions, depends where you are and how good a boss you got.

Cheers,
LXGB.

[LXGB]

Mr Chips,
Hadn't heard that, pi55 poor show if they do away with Assistants. Can't see it happening myself. Isn't all that covered under TUPE?

Do you feel that you have enough ATSAs on watch to cope with the current workload? Would it work with less?

LXGB.


[This message has been edited by LXGB (edited 20 March 2001).]

[GWYN]

Don't get too complacent folks! In good old Oz, doing away with ADSOs or Flight Datas was also talked about for years.

The commissioning of the TAAATS Monster finally made their prophecy come true. As far as I know there are no ADSOs left in any Centre in Australia, those in Sydney having been 'got rid of' in October 1999. The only staff or that grade remaining are TGOs or 'Blippies.'

Once Swanwick comes on line..............................!!!

[Biggin Koksy]

ATSAs have always been the poor relations of ATC, and I have no doubt they always will be. That said LATCC could not do without them, although NERC is another story.
LXGB. At LATCC, quite the opposite. There is always a shortage of ATSAs, and they are still employing, and promoting ATSAs. As for salary, £14000 may seem like a lot to you, but you couldn't buy a dog kennel to live in for that amount in Southern England!

People have said SERCO would do their utmost to reduce ATSA numbers, and if they did, I wouldn't want to be a controller under those circumstances.

[This message has been edited by Biggin Koksy (edited 20 March 2001).]

[SilentHandover]

Sadly for us ATSA's we are not covered by TUPE as the government is keeping the 'Golden Share' there is no transfer of employer thus we are not covered.

[Mr Chips]

Can't see it happening LXGB? SERCO seem to think it will. Perhaps they are not quite so wonderful as some alleged SERCO employees would have us believe. Let's get this straight. SERCO stated to the unions that they would be looking to get rid of support staff. I wonder if SOME of the pro SERCO contributors to this site are actually management. call me paranoid if you like, but "SERCOCONTROLLER" went very quiet!!!

[SkyCruiser]

Some of the lucky ATSAs get to go on and become airline pilots, don't we!!!!!

[Hotel Tango]

Yeah, two of my ATCA mates from my UK days are now Captains on Fk-100 and B757. They don't earn as much as me though! :)

[slurp]

all i can say is good luck to those guys who get the jobs....great bunch of lads..ATCA's/ATSA's

[Spotnik]

LXGB you must live in cloud cuckoo land! http://www.pprune.org/ubb/NonCGI/eek.gif So Serco pay you £14k and you think you are being treated well? :rolleyes: I take home at least £21k a year, and I'm not even at the top of the assistants grade nor at the highest paid unit in the CAA. Now I know Serco must remove their employees brains on signing a contract because you and sercocontroller seem to have no idea of how awful the company you are working for really is, and you seem happy with that fact. They probably force feed you soma as well. Can't wait for the Brave New World of Serco.

[This message has been edited by Spotnik (edited 22 March 2001).]

[This message has been edited by Spotnik (edited 22 March 2001).]

[LXGB]

Spotnik,
All things are relative. I'm guessing you're living in London and working at LATCC. When I was on the salary mentioned I was working at a quiet little backwater out in the colonies where beer was a pound a pint and fags 60p a packet.

Under TUPE Serco will have to honour your previous contract. If, as Silent Handover mentioned, the government is still your employer, take it up with them.

To be fair though £21k a year does sound like a bloody good salary. I know tower controllers (not employed by Serco) who get not much more than that. Like I said, it depends on where you are working and living. If I were in your position I would probably be feeling exactly the same way. Oh, loved the Aldous Huxley reference BTW, I’m a big fan ;) .


Bizzy,
Hopefully all this friendly debating hasn’t scared you off. In answer to your question, there are three ways I can think of, or should I say two?

1. NATS
2. Serco
3. RAF

Right, where’s that Soma….

[beaglepup]

I have been an ATC[S]A since Adam were a lad, well almost. I have worked at PATCRU, but not [unfortunately] PATCC. EGBB Twr and Apc, EGCC Twr, Apc, Runway controller [remember them?] and EGCCACC.
I have been rollocked, [unfairly, imh] and also complimented.
My point being, is that I and ALL my colleagues, ATCO's ATSA's are PROFESSIONALS......
We take pride in doing a "Proper" job

[Arran View]

NATS/BA/Virgin etc. ATSA's get paid well (too much) it's a dossy job with little or no responsibility, thank god I'm an ATCO and at least I now go home with the felling that I earn a living and not moan, moan, moan about one.

When I was an ATSA 2 at a large london unit (temp. 6 month contracts) they were paying me silly money circa £27k (well talent costs these days!!) at least it paid for all my 5 ratings, ha!!

Roll on automation.

AV

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[slurp]

think arrans view must be up his a*se....

[Der SimMeister]

Paid too much?? you must be kidding! Try telling that to anyone who is trying to buy property round here...

[slurp]

or is that what he talks out of?

[Fly Through]

Serco, serco, serco. Get off the band wagon people. Every company these days will have to streamline there operations, airlines are especially good at theat. At Liverpool when serco left they doubled the number of ATSA's, which was desperately needed. Here in the Gulf Serco have loads of ATSA's but they are all dirt cheap labour.

Anyone remember the incident at Bournemouth? No ATSA's, controller nips down stairs to make a coffee and falls, injuring them self to such an extent they couldn't make it back upto the VCR. Only found when Aircraft were holding over head and complaining to Southampton!!!!

[Mr Chips]

Arran - you are clearly a stuck up tosser. May i suggest that you share your opinion of ATSAs with your current collegues, and see how little help they really can be. Most ATSAs have helped an ATCO in a sticky situation at sometime. I have yet to meet a grown up ATCO who wants rid of ATSAs - and I've met quite a few ATCOs in my time.

[Bright-Ling]

Arran...words fail me.

You are the ONLY ex-assistant I know (yes I was too) who can speak that way.

I also know the best controllers who were never assistants.......even they would kick 2 bales of **** out of you when they saw you!

[EarlyGo]

Arran View,

Sad. An ex-ATSA of all people should be the last to talk like that. You obviously weren't very good at it, or weren't interested to learn. Yeah, at LATCC you could probably bash strips and not think about it, but in my experience, the ATCOs know who the good assistants are (and who aren't - wonder what people thought of you) and trust them to do reroutes, amendments and the like with the minimum of fuss and get it right quickly and first time, so they can get on with their job. Why be envious of what someone else gets paid, you still get a fair bit more so what's the problem? Is it that you struggle to get through every day without scaring yourself, and actually envy the less stress the ATSAs have? I think I may be on to something....

In the meantime, tell the ATSAs you work with what you actually think of them and their job, and see how much more difficult your job becomes!

[Rad1]

Don't want to get into the argument about Serco or NATS vs others but in my book a good Assistant is one who'll spot my mistakes and tell me about them!!

Oh, what the hell, NATS assistants may be OK for strip bashing but some assistants in the non-NATS world would knock spots off them!

[DownUnder111]

Sorry GWYN but you are mistaken. The numbers have been reduced due to TAAATS and no longer the need to prepare and distribute strips but there are now TFDC's(another name for Controller Assistants) who check flight plans and distribute QNH's. So even though numbers are less there are still controllers assistants in Australia. By the way TAAATS is a good system when its not running slow or crashing(a few hours a day).

[slurp]

so now SERCO have lost the ppp battle ,its shovel the s**t on the assistants...and as for non NATS ATSA's being the bees knees ..well excuse me while i laugh in my coffee

[Biggin Koksy]

I suspect A V is is a bit of a sour grape merchant. A short term contract a Latcc a few years ago only meant one thing. A failed cadet. He obviously couldn't hack a radar validation at Latcc and thought ATSA work was beneath him. Good luck if he has validated at Wherever, he doesn't say where, and its not in his profile. If he had to pay for his ratings, then perhaps he doesn't work for NATS, and is quite happy with his earned living, controlling a couple of dozen flights a day.

[AyrTC]

I'm only guessing here but if you work at Prestwick Tower in the VCR and you turn your head to the west you get a lovely view of Arran.
I really hope he/she does not work at ScACC,where you look out the non smoking rest room and get a not so lovely view of Prestwick Tower :)

Ayr TC

[RogerOut]

Arran View, what a sad, sad little man (oops I'm assuming) As an Atco I feel that many of our colleagues (especially Engineers and ATSAs) are often dismissed, try and do the job without them.
Besides that you sound an arrogant t*ss*r..

AyrTC - Prestwick Tower? I thought it was Belchers? In fact isn't it the water board?
:)


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RogerOut
I Keep Mine Hidden

[AyrTC]

RogerOut
I think you may be getting confused with the canteen.When I look out the Non Smoking rest room I can see a Tower and a thing going round and round.So unless Belchers (what a great name for a food processing factory btw :) ) has installed a viewing gallery and a chair-a-plane ride I think it is an airfield I see.Does this mean your a smoker.

Thank goodness for PPRUNE sorting out the important things in life :)

Ayr TC

[beaglepup]

As I am a BOF, I must put the record horizontal.
At my unit, we have had "assistants" posted in who [a] are NOT valid on any position, [and promoted] and [b] told to validate or find a new job! (one is one sex, and one is 'tother)
Me, I'm saying nowt

[ayrprox]

If arran view really thinks what he says then he is well and truly in the minority.
I would hope that as Ayrtc says that this sad deluded person who was probably mistreated as a child, is not at Scacc because the widely held opinion there is that atsa's greatly improve the running of a sector, and that a good atsa can reduce your workload tremendously.
I dont know but I hope AV is just having a laugh

[RogerOut]

AyrTC, only after sex :) Yeah, you're right, but if you've tried one of their pies, you'll understand the name, actually more of a full "hughie"....


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RogerOut
I Keep Mine Hidden