Fighter escorts-whats the point?

[RUDAS]

i'd like to know if anyone has an idea why,whenever there is a problem such as the olympic airlines emergency at stansted,fighter escorts seem to be the first reaction of the authorities?

what can fighters possibly do to help? unless i'm missing something obvious,surely the only use of a fighter escort is to shoot an airliner down?

Is this uk policy?

As a pilot,i would never call up for an escort if in distress,as i see no point except to frighten already terrified pax?

[Fokker-Jock]

I'm not sure what the incident you are referring to is about, but one reason to call a fighter up would be to make a visual inspection of the aircraft (i.c.o. landing gear trouble).

[Unwell_Raptor]

Yes indeed. If the hijacked aircraft is heading for, say, Canary Wharf or the Palace of Westminster the RAF may well shoot it down, accepting some loss of life in exchange for a probable much greater loss.

[Tinstaafl]

But what use for a bomb threat?

[speedbird_heavy]

If the aircraft get too close to a major city (where a bomb may be set to explode), then it will be shot down.

[HEATHROW DIRECTOR]

<<Yes indeed. If the hijacked aircraft is heading for, say, Canary Wharf or the Palace of Westminster the RAF may well shoot it down, accepting some loss of life in exchange for a probable much greater loss.>>

By the time anyone knew it was heading for one of those places there would be no way on this earth that fighters could reach it in time.

<<If the aircraft get too close to a major city (where a bomb may be set to explode), then it will be shot down.>>

So it gets "close" to a major city and gets shot down. What would shooting it down save in terms of damage and loss of life?

[catchup]

The politicians went mad, completly. Almost worldwide, but especially in UK and US, sorry.

regards

[Saxo-Life]

Hi

in Germany there is a new law which allowes the chief-of-staff of the German Air Force to order that fighters force civilian aircrafts to land, to shoot for warning, to fore civilian aircrafts aside or to threaten the civilian aircrafts with the use of weapons.

The Federal Secretary of Denfense, or a deputy, is allowed to order that fighters attack the aircraft and to shoot it down.

Text of federal law of air security (http://dip.bundestag.de/btd/15/023/1502361.pdf)

[josephshankes]

No help at all.

As mentioned previously, they are there to down the A/C, should it become a "threat." Pure and simple.

I think the downing of the A/C in "open country" would be preferable to having it fly/crash into a major city. I think a lot of governments will or have, given the order to do that without hesitation, since 9/11

[Tinstaafl]

You've missed my point. How is this a help for a bomb on board, not a hijacker. The 'need the fighters for a bomb incident' brigade must feel that the aircrew are suddenly going to leap to the opportunity take a city city with them? In which case why would a crew wait for a bomb report. Just after take off on any given day at work is a lot more convenient... :rolleyes:

[Kaptin M]

A bomb threat may be a ruse, or cover.
If made onboard, eg. a note in the toilet, it may be a diversionary tactic for the hijackers to divert attention away from where the real action is about to take place, or an attempt to have the aircraft divert to a nearby major city airport, where more damage can be done if the aircraft is downed.

As in this latest case, it is possible that terrorists may carry out a co-ordinated "exercise" (with others onboard), for the above same reasons.

[Genghis the Engineer]

I disagree slightly with a couple of the posters above.


If an aircraft may have a bomb onboard it is going to be actively directed away from any populated area to an airport where a landing can be effected with minimal third party risk. That's just common sense.

A fighter escort gives a severe, but effective, sanction if the aircraft fails to obey such instructions. If the aircraft turns out in-fact to have been hijacked with a 9/11 intent, then the obvious and immediate sign will be failure to obey ATC instructions. Plus, a fighter is a very clear visual clue to any real or prospective hijacker that it is in his interest (as well as everybody else's) to allow the aircraft to be landed - which then contains the third party risk completely.

G

[jayteeto]

Just to make things clear..... the bomb threat was not a note on board, it was a telephone call in greece.

[Kaptin M]

In fact, it was 3 telephone calls.

[GlueBall]

The deployment of fighter escorts is also part of aerial flag-waving show biz.

[Genghis the Engineer]

Purely out of interest, what fighters were scrambled to the airliner?

G

[simfly]

I'm surprised anyone is questioning this at all! If something abnormal is going on, or in this case, a warning by phone etc, is it not common sense to send somthing up just to at least take a look? and what's the quickest way of getting someone up there??? The aircraft may not neccesarily be "escorted", but I think more questions would be asked if NOTHING was done and the whole thing just ignored.

[doubleu-anker]

Genghis the Engineer

According to Sky news, they were Tornados, with a map and the profiles of 2 C130's shown.

I believe the Tarnado story myself.

[MarkD]

As I said in the other thread - how long are govts going to go on funding Q before they think it's "not economically viable" or some other Treasury-speak with cost-benefit analyses and so forth?

[Nearly Man]

GlueBall, spot on .. we're just copying the americans now, who watch too many films where F15s get scrambled and tootle about the airliner getting hardons! So, we got to do it now!

Kaptin M .. was it a BIG 3 then, wow!

[R Slicker]

If there is a bomb, and it goes off, they will be there to photo it and mark the spot for the fire service to damp down the smouldering wreck. Can't see any other reason unless its pure PR.


RS

[fireflybob]

I am somewhat surprised that the UK have the odd Tornado around to support such an action after all the various defence cuts.

[Fox_4]

Nearly Man

The RAF/NATO have been doing QRA for decades now!

Does nobody remember the Cold War. Who do you think protected the Northern approaches from the Russian hordes. I hark back to the Lightning then the Phantom and then and now the F3.

Good knowledge of National defence though. The role changes all the time, the military is there to adapt and be flexible to any and all current threats out there.

If anyone did the copying of QRA it was the US post 9/11, who previous to that had no perceived threat to mainland USA. Any F3 guy from inception of the jet has sat in the shed for his fair share of time waiting for the horn to go.

You watch too many movies if you think we get airborne "to tootle about and get a hardon".

You sit comfortably in your chair knowing nothing about what you are speaking about. Keep your "self informed" opinions to yourself and go watch that topgun dvd again and stay warm under that blanket of freedom that all the guys provide, no questions asked!

[yakker]

Ghengis,

If an aircraft may have a bomb onboard it is going to be actively directed away from any populated area to an airport where a landing can be effected with minimal third party risk. That's just common sense.

How is stansted away from populated areas, do you not pass London on the approach. By the time it was realised the aircraft was not going into Stansted it would be too late.
Would not Manston be a better idea?

Anyway its a long time since we had the RAF scrambling on our own shores, why spoil their fun?

[Flypuppy]

Nearly Man,

Looks like you hooked another one....... :p

[Jagbag]

Hi All

Just thought I would add my two penny bit ( having done some of these intercepts).

- To get an airliner back on track if it has per chance gone 'astray'.
- To keep a close watch on any thing that might help ground based commanders.
-To intimidate the hijackers (if any).
-To ensure no harmful or hazardous (hostile) action is carried out by the airplane by buzzing it etc.

In case people have the wrong impression that there is a trigger happy fast jet jock sitting in the aircraft they should remove that notion. I think the very thought of shooting against unarmed innocents would revolt against the very basis of his training.

[Hot Rod]

Hi.

I fly a lot to France with the callsign "Cubana" (A330) and we always get a fighter "escort" in their airspace, no matter if we have pax onboard or not (some empty ferryflights). Always only one (Mirage F1 last time acc to ATC) and we are always informed by ATC about it.

Destination (or departure) is always Paris and last time he even followed us in the descend.

Sometimes we see him, sometimes not, sometimes even the pax see him! Most of the times he has transponder on so we get him on TCAS.

Cheers / Cuba Libre!:ok:

[Semaphore Sam]

Logically, if fighters are to be scrambled for a bomb threat, due to possible 9/11 incident, they should be scrambled for ANY dirversion...sick pax, fuel leak, anything. Is this the general policy?

[Wino]

no comment

lots of fighters up there though now....

Cheers
Wino