It's True!

[lokione]

My best friend - returned to Can 3 months ago after working in Africa for 5 years ( for United Nations) - 13000 hours and in his 30's. Has been caught up in this Red Pass mess. Transport Canada had advised all the airlines in the recent past that due to their lack of funding for proper Security checks on persons returning from overseas, they would not be able to issue them with Red Passes.

Canjet had already taken on some ( 4 I think) flight attendants who had been O/S. Their passes were refused and they lost their jobs - I believe they ( amongst others are litigating).

The airlines will not be willing to admit it - but until directed otherwise by Transport Canada, they will not interview you.

Yesterday Mon 20th, Transport Canada were having a meeting on this very issue. There should be some further clarification by the end of the week.

My friend is utterly devastated by his complete inability to get one of the many available jobs there ( for which he is qualified) whilst this whole mess is going on. No company will even apply for him to get the Pass, so that he can then dispute the fact that it has been denied. Right now his hands are completely tied!!

Sorry for the dire news. I cant believe that this isn't all over the Canadian pilot sites and here on PPrune. It is a disgrace that hard working Canadian pilots can be rendered unemployable by such beaurocracy!!

I suppose you could always go fly float planes therefore not requiring a Red Pass! Or perhaps join the Welfare line.

I will keep you posted on any new developments!

Loki

[rotornut]

Glad to hear someone is litigating. TC's policy can be challenged, I believe, by what's called a mandamus. The parties would have to apply to the Federal Court and it would not be cheap. But in the end, if successful, the Court would order TC to perform security checks on the applicants.

[vrefplus5]

lokione,

As far as you know, does this affect returning Canadians from ALL overseas countries or just a few ? Curious if Canucks working in England, or the Caribbean.... for example, would be caught up in this mess ? Thanks.

[lokione]

From what I can gather it is any non first world rated country. However Singapore also applies! So if you were a Canuck flying for Singapore Airlines but with a yearning to return home - right now you wouldnt get a red pass. As I said lets see what happens with the meeting and results this week.

Maybe it is any region where Terrorism has been known to brew??
Not sure about where you are but stay there for now!:sad:

[bandit110]

Yes it is true. I am considering a return to Canada but was told a Red Pass will be a problem. I called Ottawa and was told to get a job offer first. However companies know about the problem and want me to solve the pass issue. So here is the problem, no red pass, no job offer. Oh did I mention you need a job offer to process you red pass application.

[Chuck Ellsworth]

deleted

[flyr4hire]

I can confirm also that a friend of mine was affected by this pass issue. She was initially offered the job and then couldn't get a clearance. Hence no pass, no job. She was working overseas, Orient , for 4 years.
Only in C-A-N-A-DAH HEY?

[B727jetpilot]

I write a message to TC in Dorval, that's the answer, they dont deal with security pass, i have to call airport autorithy....what a joke!



jet

[lokione]

Strict airport security pushes 1,000 out of jobs
One woman sues over federal rule workers must have official records of activities outside Canada


Glen McGregor
The Ottawa Citizen
Thursday, September 02, 2004


As many as 1,000 airline employees are unable to get the security clearances they need to work in airports because Transport Canada requires difficult-to-obtain documentation from time they spent overseas.

To get an airport security pass, anyone who has lived more than three months outside Canada in the previous five years must provide documentation of their activities from police or security services in the foreign country -- a process that can be slow and in some cases impossible.

While the requirement hits recent immigrant workers hard, many skilled airline employees who have worked abroad find they are unable to get aviation jobs when they return to Canada, says Mike Skrobica, vice-president of the Air Transport Association of Canada, an airline lobby group.

"We have instances where we have pilots and aircraft maintenance engineers posted overseas on contract. They come back expecting to get a pass because they've been working for a Canadian company -- they're Canadian citizens -- and they're denied."

While it's relatively easy for employees who worked in the U.S. to produce police documents needed for background checks, some countries, such as Sudan and South Africa, keep no records of foreign workers. Others, such as Germany, refuse to pass on the information when requested, he said.

Mr. Skrobica accuses Transport Canada of changing its policy this summer without consulting the airlines first.

"There are a whole bunch of human rights concerns here. Absolutely law-abiding Canadians citizens, because of a policy change done by fiat, are now unable to obtain employment in their field in Canada."

But Transport Canada denies it has modified its policy on security clearances.

"The information provided by any applicant has to be adequate, reliable, and verifiable, normally covering a period of five years," said spokeswoman Vanessa Vermette.

"That's been standard policy since we started issuing clearances in 1986."

The Airport Restricted Area Access passes give airline employees access to the "airside" of airports and are required for mechanics, security guards, cleaners, pilots and check-in agents.

One employee who lost her job with the airline Jetsgo last month launched legal action against Transport Canada, alleging that she was unfairly denied a security clearance because of time spent in China.

Diana Stefanova, 28, had worked as a flight attendant for Hainan Airlines for four years after studying in a travel and tourism program at Toronto's Seneca College. She originally went to China on a co-op program and stayed to help pay off her student loans.

Ms. Stefanova returned to Canada, and this spring took a job as a passenger check-in agent at Pearson Airport. She was working on a temporary security pass while her application for a permanent card was processed. But Transport Canada told Ms. Stefanova that she didn't have adequate documentation from Chinese police and could not be given a clearance. She lost her job.

"I had been granted a security pass in China, by China, and I can't get one here, where I am a citizen. It's just crazy."

She had hoped her experience in the industry and her ability to speak Czech and Mandarin Chinese would help land a job with an airline. But now she finds herself effectively blocked from working in the field.

"It's the same thing as telling a doctor you can't work in a hospital. I was sent by school to China, I'm still paying student loans, so it's very frustrating."

Ms. Stefanova has asked the Federal Court of Canada to overturn the decision and force Transport Canada to review her application for a clearance. The department has not yet filed a response to the court action.

A spokesman for Jetsgo said that about 15 of its employees were denied security clearances this year and are unable to work for the company.

"We have been in touch with Transport Canada to make them aware of how it's affecting us in terms of employees," said Brad Cicero. "It does have an impact on hiring policies."

Mr. Skrobica says that he was told by Tranport officials that the new policy would affect only two per cent of security applications.

But he says that, with about 55,000 passes issued each year, more than 1,000 people will be kept from working at Canadian airports.

© The Ottawa Citizen 2004


This really is happening!! For more info and comments over this check out www.avcanada.com main forum under sticky - Canucks returning from O/S beware!

[Ray Darr]

What a load of crap. I wonder what whiz-kid dreamed this B.S. program up.

Another no-brain make-work project.

...end of rant.

[Rosbif]

So, let's get this straight ! As an example.--
Let's say a Canadian who has worked in Singapore for the last year because for example C3 went belly up and left him unemployed. He then gets a nice job at Skyservice and applies for his pass. If he tells the truth on the form, he cannot start work, and is effectively unemployable in Canada.
Another guy who has just finished his training as a terrorist, but has the sense to lie on the form gets his pass based on the name he gave to the Government when he arrived as a refugee with no paperwork 5 years ago. I don't see the logic. Surely, pilots who think that they will be denied passes will now just lie on the form.-- Or am I missing something ? How is this improving security?

[B727jetpilot]

OK. let's say that this thing is truth, what we do?..i call TC Dorval
answer they are not the one who deal with the red pass so i will call Aeroport of Montreal tomorow....


jet

[lokione]

Chedk your PM 727!!

[Chuck Ellsworth]

Rosbif:

With regard to your opining on telling the truth versus being dishonest may I suggest an old saying?

"When in Rome do as the Romans do."

When dealing with Transport Canada I have learned the hard way that you are better off lying if it suits your agenda, if caught in a lie I can produce a letter from the top bureaucrat in TC in Ottawa that clearly states that dishonesty is to quote him.

" I find their handling of this matter to be quite satisfactory and they have my full support"

His letter was in answer to proven lying and gross dishonesty by several of TC's top managers.

Bottom line do whatever you have to when dealing with people of that moral ilk.

Chuck Ellsworth

[lokione]

Excellent idea chuck. Sometimes it is the only easy way out with beaurocracy. Just one small problem.................

all those foreign registered planes in the logbook. Bugger!:sad:

[Chuck Ellsworth]

Lokione:

Logbook?

Hell, who ever asks you to produce a logbook when you are applying for a red pass?

Screw e'm, just tell them whatever it takes to get work. :D

Chuck

[B727jetpilot]

answer from my Call at Transport Canada,

I call Transport Canada at Dorval ,talk to someone i know there who is in charge of general aviation, he was very surprise, and never heard about it,
but passed me to the chief of security in Dorval, again the answer will be different from place to place he told me, in Quebec for airport like Dorval
or Mirabel etc...the person who go out of Canada more then 3 months have to go before living from the country he is in to the Canadian embassy and they will help getting the paper work done.now the millions dollar questions why is different from states?.i don't know we have to find out.


jet

[Rosbif]

What I would like to know is : Who is responsible for your red pass? 1) Transport Canada or 2) the airport authority or 3) Csis?
If someone gets turned down at one airport, can he/she apply at another airport for a different result.
Who is responsible for this BS. Pilots are on the front line when it comes to security, and these idiots are turning us from ally into the enemy.
The system will only catch the innocent. The bad guys are going to benefit from this because the fact that someone is lying on the applications will not necessarily "flag" that person. When a lot of good people are lying to keep their jobs, the bad guys are going to slip right through. Idiots !!
Why is it that in Canada, we allow such incompetents to hold positions of such responsibility?:confused:

[bzhpilot]

After an 8 months "investigation" I received my red pass (I lived in the US for a few months and I'm not a canadian citizen yet) in december 2003.
During those 8 months , I tried to speed up the process (which is supposed to take 1 to 2 months) to be able to work without restriction. I never find anyone to give me a straight answer as to WHO exactly was "pulling the strings". On the pass itself it says that it's the property of montreal airport (I work at Dorval a.ka. PET).
The only thing I know it's that both Airport authority AND TC are involved. Among my "red pass quest" TC seems a little bit more aware of what was going on than the airport. The only excuses for the late delivery of my pass was the fact that I resided in the US. (It's pretty scary to realise that it can take that long to verify someone's backgroud...)
Recently hired people in my company had to quit because they were told that they will never get the red pass.
TC told the company that if they don't want to have that problem they have to "guess" if an employee can or cannot get the pass .
Once again you're proved guilty before being able to prove your innocence.

[Chuck Ellsworth]

Funny thing, a cop can pull you over for speeding, take your licence to his cruiser get on his radio and find out if there are any warrants for you in a couple of minutes.

[CD]

Hmmmm... It does seem like there may be some new rules out there:

This month (November 2002), Transport Minister David Collenette assigned two additional responsibilities to CATSA:

* The implementation of an enhanced restricted area pass system for Canadian airports;
* The screening of non-passengers entering restricted areas at airports.

CATSA Newsletter - November 2002 (http://www.catsa-acsta.gc.ca/english/media/bulletin/1-4.htm)

Transport Minister Announces Further Enhancements to Aviation Security - November 2002 (http://www.tc.gc.ca/mediaroom/releases/nat/2002/02_h120e.htm)

Since the screening of non-passengers began earlier this year, it's reasonable to assume that CATSA has progressed on the "new" restricted area pass as well.

However, the Canadian Aviation Security Regulations define a pass as:

"restricted area pass" means a document issued by or under the authority of an aerodrome operator or by an air carrier with the approval of the aerodrome operator that entitles the holder to have access to a specific restricted area during a specified period.

Canadian Aviation Security Regulations (http://www.tc.gc.ca/acts-regulations/GENERAL/A/aa/regulations/280/aa284/aa284.html#Interpretation)

There is a little bit of information (but no real answers it seems) at these links as well:

Airport Security Clearances (http://www.tc.gc.ca/vigilance/sep/tscp/menu.htm)

Transportation Security Clearance Program (http://www.tc.gc.ca/vigilance/sep/tscp/tscp_manual_contents.htm)

[Flaps10]

It's discusting...there must be something we can do?

I worked for a year and a half down in the Caribbean. I've been back home for 3 years now and have been working at an airport that does not use passes. We fly to the major airports all the time and wonder the ramps without hassle.

I have been hoping to get on with a larger operation and it makes me sick to my stomach to think that i may not now because of these restrictions.

This is almost as bad as the US's 12500 rule for sim.

%$&#
:uhoh:

This industry is getting worse and worse everyday...

[Rosbif]

You can be quite sure that if someone furloughed from AC had been working in Singapore and was now called back, that any problems in getting the pass for the recalled pilot would be rectified immediately. Some people/companies seem to be able to get things done at the airport. The irony is that this same company is the one that has not been paying its bills while the little guys who are subsidizing everything and paying all the taxes get the screw around.
At the pass office at YYZ, the lineup now starts at 5:30 in the morning. If you show up after 8:30, you will probably not get your pass on that day, and you have to start again the next day.
Great service !! Again, who is ultimately responsible for this ? Who gets to either approve or disapprove the application?

[B727jetpilot]

All i can say now, is nobody here have bean refused, so what is the problem? of course you need paper work when you come back but this is normal!i will be back soon and i feel positive about to get this thing done.


jet

[Ralph Cramden]

Welcome to the Third World Rosbif. Have you not noticed how nothing works in this country anymore? This is just one more symptom of the ever increasing spiral into oblivion for this country. No money for roads, no money for the military, no money for the RCMP, no money for the Coast Guard etc. etc. Lots of money for the gun registry, lots of money for MP's, lots of money for the Governor General, lots of money for Liberal Ad Agencies. End of rant. I'm going to go and play on my boat. Thank God I'm retired.