Becoming an Instructor & related FI questions

[Staticdroop]

Engine Offs to the ground are a must, they are part of the sylabus and not anly that they are the most important part of a real engine failure scenario. What is the point of carrying out a fantastic auto entry, Mayday call, and carry out all the tricks of the trade if you do not know how to land. There should be some safety requirment built into the training so i will not do engine offs in less than 10 kts of wind.
I f there are any doubts about personal competency then see your chief pilot ar instructor and go and practice some for half an hour.

P.S. expect the unexpected from you students.:\

[ec135driver]

I had a great time instructing. It was my first job after completing my training. It makes life easier if you are flying in Arizona though!

If you are going to instruct, make sure you put the same level of commitment into it as you would into any other job - your student deserves it and it may save his life to have been taught by someone who gave their best every time.

Instructing taught me alot about the aircraft and about my ability to deconstruct a manoeuvre to help teach it.

About full down autos - In the States when I was there, all autos were taught to a power recovery hover. When I came to do them to the surface I had no problem with the last 3 feet!

I would ask the question - is it really necessary to push your luck each time you do it? With small, piston types, as long as you arrive at 3 feet with very little forward airspeed and lots of rrpm you will walk away - a good day!

[G_STRING]

Grainger.

I'm in the uneviable position of really wanting to become a career instructor, but can't get the illusive class 1 medical.

I feel similar to you in that I love flying helis (still an amazing feeling), have been hourbuilding, and would love to 'put something back' into the system.

I'd be quite happy to do it the way Whirly suggests; CPL writtens, FI course, and class 2 (Thanks by the way Whirly, for your information), but no remuneration.

But again, same as yourself, would be worried about how this would be percieved. Obviously, you could keep it quiet from other instructors, but the SCHOOL would need to know.

What sort of a view would they take on this. (Any heli schools out there with an opinion on this one)??

G_STRING

[G_STRING]

Following on from my 'instructors - a question...' post.

How old is 'too old', when it comes to starting a career as a rotary instructor? I'm 40 now, & imagine, (medical permitting), it would take a few years to get through the CPL and the FI course.

REALLY want to do this, so input much appreciated

G_STRING

[pa42]

What has the world come to? We're afraid to donate our time to our sport/hobby/vocation because of implied criticism by our peers? Balderdash, I say!

If a doctor donates his time to indigenous medical services, at home or abroad, does he get flak from other doctors who were hoping to someday get around to doctoring the part of the world they haven't done yet? If a teacher donates time to educating the disabled, do they get crank phone calls from other teachers?

If you want to fly, and the idiotic bureaucratic irrelevant government's arbitrary restrictions prevent you from receiving remuneration, then for God's sake, FLY! Let the unioneers and whiners go after the government, instead--it is, after all, the government's fault/error/irrelevancy/stupidity that created the problem with how we pursue life and liberty!!!

Dave
Donating Flt Instruction Any Time I Want To!

[pa42]

Ooops, 40, well now, you know, we all have to be established in our careers by age 25 in order to get ahead and be of any use . . . just look at all the employment fallout from the dot.com industry, all those old folks fired at 30 because they were obsolete.

Less tongue in cheek: I got tired of f/w and seriously moved into rotary a couple of years ago. Decided to take it seriously and moved on up to Flight Instructor this summer, almost instantaneously took a position as Chief Flight Instructor for a fair-sized school in Florida. Soon CFII-H. But you can't be doing this sort of thing when you get old, quite improper, takes the money out of REAL workers' mouths, etc.

Oh, by the way, I recently turned 66. And I do this for fun (although they ALSO pay me fairly well), having already made retirement in the corporate f/w jet world.

[G_STRING]

Pa 42

Thanks for the lighthearted, (and serious!) reply. Good to know that you did what you did WHEN you wanted to do it.

Made good reading, and made me feel a hell of a lot better

Thanks

[Whirlybird]

G_STRING,

I was older than you before I ever considered setting foot inside a helicopter...don't ask by how much; haven't you noticed that this lady NEVER gives away her age. ;) But those who've met me know that I'm not the sweet young thing I sometimes pretend to be. :{ This isn't a second career for me; it's about the sixth! There are no age limits for instructing, so long as you can pass medicals...and Class 1 if you want to be paid. And in practice it doesn't seem to be an issue in the instructing world. I'm planning on carry on till I'm 90...so long as I can still climb into a helicopter. You, my friend, are just a kid...so stop worrying. And I agree with pa42; who cares what anyone else thinks; if you want to instruct, go for it!

[Grainger]

Hey G-STRING; I'm 43 now and don't see that as any sort of impediment. At least twenty good years in me yet and I hope many more than that !

Let me ask you a question: how old will you be in five years' time if you don't follow your dream of instructing ? That's right: the same.

[G_STRING]

Thanks very much for all your responses - Whirly, you sound a rather formidable and determine lady, all good luck to you.

Feel rather better after reading the posts, but the one thing I'm really curious about, (as I said earlier), is how will the SCHOOLS themselves react to an instructor minus a class 1 medical?

I originally wanted to instruct in the fixed wing world, where this sort of thing is, if not common, MORE common I'm sure, than the rotary world.

However, after introducting myself to helicopters, I'm completely hooked, and know that this is what I want.

So, if there are any schools / proprietors, etc.. out there reading this, please give me your input!

Thanks

[Whirlybird]

Formidable? Moi? I'm not big enough to be formidable. 5ft 2ins people can't be formidable; it doesn't work. :confused: Determined? I guess so. If I want something I leave no stone unturned. I think I was probably a terrier in a past life. :)

Anyway, I can't see the schools caring about whether you've got a Class 1 medical or not. After all, until quite recently rotary instructors just got 200 hours and did an FI course. I missed that route by about a year. And I don't think they had Class 1s. I don't know what happens to the ones now with grandfather rights, and there are loads around.

G-STRING, what part of Wales are you in? Just curious, that's all.

[G_STRING]

Whirly

Caerphilly area originally, but I move around a lot! now living Bournemouth area, so I suppose I should edit my profile!

G_STRING

[Whirlybird]

Well G-STRING, they seem to be desperate for rotary instructors down on the south coast; I keep seeing ads. I doubt if they'll give a damn what sort of medical or qualifications you've got, so long as it keeps the CAA happy. And instructors in the north can't afford to move down there, so you can probably take your pick of schools. I'll probably be getting quite jealous of all the work you have in a couple of years. ;)

[G_STRING]

Whirly

Thanks for your input on this subject. On the subject of yourself, how long did it take you, start to finish, to get your rotary FI? You state yourself that you were older than I was when you started - did you find this a problem, or wasn't it an issue?

Lastly, did you find the course easy, hard, or somewhere in the middle!

[Whirlybird]

G-STRING,

When I decided to get a CPL and FI rating, everyone seemed really surprised. I thought that was because of my age; I mean, it did seem kinda silly in the normal way one looks at things to be spending all that money at that age. I then discovered that my age wasn't even an issue; they were surprised because I'm female! There were quite a few guys in their late 30s, 40s, and older considering it, and no-one turned a hair. So I don't think it'll be an issue.

Timescale...
I didn't hurry that much, because I planned for it all to be fun, and I also had to earn a living at the same time. OTOH, I didn't think I should waste too many years. So...
Sept 1999 - June 2000 PPL(H)
Hourbuilding, aka fun flying, until Feb 2001
Feb 2001 - June 2001 CPL(H) ground exams by self study and at Bristol Ground School
More fun flying...er, I mean hour building.
Sept - Nov 2001 CPL(H) flying course
2002 - more hour building, mainly on two trips, to US and Russia
Jan/Feb 2003 - FI course, finally passing it in April...long story.

I found everything enjoyable but reasonably challenging, except the CPL ground exams which were a huge amount of work and at least 50% boring, and the FI course which was the hardest thing I've ever done. :( There are threads about a lot of it; they might still be around if you do a search. After the FI course, I decided to stop living my life on PPRuNe - no more diary-type threads!

[Jez]

I once did an AS350 endorsement for a case of Cascade Beer!!

No money - but the beer tasted better.

"Mates rates".

Does that count?

:ok:

[Rotorbee]

My two cents.
Difficult to tell. For an instructor rating I would think, that the flying part is not that important. Theory and teaching experience would be more important. A comparision of the subjects a new CFI has to learn would probably be more interesting, than just comparing the fligth hours required.
How much ADM and risk management is covered, or teaching methods and so on. A good instructor must be a good teacher, not necessarily the best pilot. But he should know how to save the day for everybody.

:rolleyes:

[Fatigue]

I don't know about better, but you also have to take into account that you have less hours when you can start the FAA CFI compared to the JAR......
Fatigue

[Rotorbee]

Safety in aviation has reached a standard, where dicussions which break it down to "how many hours does your instructor have" are useless. JAR has yet to prove that it is saver then any other regulation. I have flown with pilots which were trained under JAR and they scared the s**** out of me. They fly as happy VFR into IMC as "FAR" pilots. Common sense you do not get by regulations, neither by an instructor that has 50 hours more. It is the attitude towards flying you learn during your flight training that makes the difference. I had hardcore european instructors (in the sense that they where absolutely sure that the US license is worth less) and US instructors and some even had both. And from my humble point of view, the best instructors where those that acctualy liked their job. Their had more knowledge and a better attitude then those who where just building hours. And that goes for both worlds.

[Rotorbee]

It was not my intention to pick on the hours builder. Most of them try to do a good job and a lot of them like instructing. Every pilot wants to move up to something bigger. To do that you have to build hours. Doing it as an instructor is not bad. Flying sightseeing tours probably gives you way less experience in the same number of hours.
For a pilot in the US it is often the only possibility to build hours. For a 135 operation you need a minimum of 500 hours. There aren't a lot of 91 jobs around. The insurances make it even more difficult to find a job.

It is not important how many hours the new instructor had or who much time the instructor course took. It is what he learned and what attitude he has towards flying and towards his students. And there are those things, that you can't learn in hundred years which make the difference between an good and an excellent instructor.

[Rotorbee]

Yup, now it is getting interesting.
Acctualy I am never realy serious, life is to short.
But here it comes. I will try again to explain what I mean. But reading the replies, I am not realy good at it.

The 100h instructor who is to afraid to let go of the controls should never have passed the test anyway - or nowhere. You do not become a CFI only by flying some fixed number of hours. That would be completely the wrong way. You have to pass a few test after all.

The 10'000h pilot that teaches the first time, is not very good at teaching either. But that is what makes the difference. Beeing a good teacher is what counts. You can train for 10, 30 or 50 flight hours to become an instructor. Students will surprise you anyway. Therefore you need a good knowledge about the learning process. But that is normaly learned during ground school.

All I wanted to make clear is, that comparing required flight hours does not say much about the quality of an instructor course. I bet there are still corners in this world, which have higher required flight hours then the US, but ADM, CRM, fundamentals of instruction and risk management are not covered during those instructor courses, but are subjects which are required by the FAA. I believe, that those points are much more important then 50 hours more of flight time. And you need to compare the ground school, too.

I had my share of instructors that wanted to pass their experience on. Most of the time it scared the s*** out of me and one almost killed me and one almost wrecked the ship. I prefer the calm instructor, who goes by the book and shows me different techniques which are well accepted. But that is what you learn during any instructor course, or at least should learn.

By the way, the whole flight training did not change a lot since the WWII. Thanks to the way regulations are made, that will not change soon, but I believe we could train pilots in less hours to higher standards, just by changing the way of teaching.
Had a discussion once with Shawn Coyle about strategie of control. Very interesting. Much more than picking on US-CFI's because they have less hours
;-)))))

Oh FITS is a good source, too.

Now I'm off to the beach
:E

[pa42]

Don't stop now, expand on that concept. Not a US buzzphrase; is it pilot control input strategy, or administrative instructor-pilot obedience training? Is there a text? I don't recall seeing the words in Cyc/Coll (too lazy to reread the book looking for this new term).

Expound. Eager minds salivate for wisdom even as we click . . .

[Rotorbee]

Ha, gotcha. Now you are hooked. Knew it would work. Mention somebody famous and everybody jumps to attention.
Once upon a time I lost a bet to Shawn Coyle. Read the book and you know why. Strategie of control is not in the book, it was just a discussion while I paid my dept. Ask him.
After that thread, I do not believe, that I am able to explain that concept.
sniff - nobody understands me anyway

rather go to the beach

:uhoh: :{ :ugh:


:zzz:

[Bellthorpe]

The 100h instructor who is to afraid to let go of the controls should never have passed the test anyway

Why? Anyone will allow the testing officer to take the controls. It doesn't mean that he will allow a student the same freedom.

[bellfest]

Just a post to see what the general consensus is on when instructors ratings should be issued. I personally am a big believer that IR's should not be issued to pilots with less than 3000 hrstt. Though pilots can be taught the basics of teaching helicopter flight and emergency procedures it doesn't seem to be a substantial benchmark for someone who is paying $35,000+ to get their lisence. Thoughts everybody?

[Up & Away]

The number of 'Hours' one has is no measure of 'ability'.

Take a 'test' get 'qualified'

QED :)

[bellfest]

Up & Away,
All the 'ability' in the world doesn't account for 'experience'. As I said, you can be taught how to be an instructor & pass the test but I think that with less than 3000 hrs your personal learning curve is still a bit too steep to be giving others what they are paying for. It's a lot of money to pay & you want the best benefit of teaching ability & experience to get the most out of it.

[WLM]

3000 hours TT might be a little too high, something like 1000 TT benchmark is more achievable. One must remember that most instructor jobs are seen as a stepping ladder in the industry. I agree that a 250 hours TT instructor does not have the ability to impart serious experience onto a newbie.
So far, the CASA system (OZ) is the only one asking for a higher minimum TT hours before an IR can be issued. I have flown with so called experienced pilots trained by other countries, and I will trust an Aussie before any others. (1500 hours below)
I had the privilege to fly with IR's with 5000 + hours TT to 15000+ hours TT and believe me EXPERIENCE counts...:D

[the coyote]

Out of interest, at what sort of experience level can you become an instructor in the military in Oz and other countries? What would be the average experience of a military instructor? Don't want to start the big military vs civilian thing, just interested.

In Oz you can't get a rotary instructor rating with less than 400 hours.

Personally I had 1100 hours when I did mine and I reckon that was only just enough. As any instructor knows, you're learning heaps as well as the student.

Bellfest, with your reference to value for money, would you be willing to pay more for a more experienced instructor?

[Leftpedal]

I am a low time instructor and I would be the first to admit that experience counts for a great deal. Still, a newbie instructor can only operate under the supervision of a grade 2 or higher (here in RSA anyway), who must fly a check ride with the student at least every 10 hours. The argument in favour of low time instructors is that they remember better learning to fly themselves, and tend to be more enthusiastic and thorough in their briefings (if anything we 'over-instruct' I am told). The final decision should rest with the student, I would think, and coyote makes a good point about cost. Lastly, without instructing, how do I get to be a high time pilot?

[delta3]

Coyote,

I'am a privateer with about 1.000 hrs in 4 years, and my IR had 17.000+ (he was not allowed to write more) and I'am really glad he had this.

I would feel that 1.000 is indeed really a minimum. There is a german saying (will save you the german..) that goes: ' there is no replacement for experience...'

Unless teaching kind of means learning to fly circuits and let them figure out all the rest and hope they survive it...

If I would pay more : well this question was not put this way in my case, I just choose the experienced guys (did not check the others), and even well after getting my PPL I would pay them to fly with me to do the more advanced stuff once I was getting ready for it, and had a need to know it.

Experience of course is not everything : the person should be able of bringing some of it over to the student, in that sense I sympathise with the youthfull enthousiasme line of thinking, but give me an experienced enthousiatic guy...

d3

[Ascend Charlie]

In the military, a pilot usually has to complete a full flying tour before getting an instructor's course. One tour is around 3 years and 1000 hours - and a bag of experience that somebody straight out of a licence test doesn't have.

The RAAF tried once, sending a newly-winged pilot straight to instructor's course, but it wasn't worth doing a second time - don't know the official reason, but the unofficial one was that he had no credibility amongst the other instructors.

I know that when I went through training, all my instructors were Vietnam vets who could pass on a lot of knowledge. (It didn't sink into me, of course.....):(

[Winnie]

I don't know of any military service that flies 1000 hours per pilot in 3 years!!

The averages I have heard lies more around 150 -200 hours pr year, which equals 450 -600 pr year...

[Rotorbee]

There we go again.
Instructor qualification is measured by flight hours.
That the system worked for years with all the low time instructors all over the world does not count. Get real. Everybody wants a instructor with 100'000 hours and the talent to be a good teacher. But it does not work like this. Most of the experienced pilots do not want to teach and it is far more difficult to show an older guy effectiv teaching methods.
I had the pleasure once to see a very good flight instructor in action with two different students. One was the 100 hour wonder and the other one a bit timid an not sure about his flying. This instructor had the ability to find exactly the right way to teach both of them. Stop the overconfident student becoming a macho pilot and help the timid student to get self confidenc. That is what a good instructor must know, too. But that is something a pilot does not learn in 10'000 h military or commercial flying.
Would be nice if a flight instructor would be judged for his teaching.

[[email protected]]

The ability to instruct effectively is more determined by personality than anything else - the best pilot in the world may make a lousy instructor because he cannot empathise with his student.
However, the excuse for using low time pilots to teach others is a poor one and hides behind the economic reality that it is a cheap way to hours build. Some student will get reasonable instruction but many will get an inexperienced pilot who is also an inexperienced instructor - this is not a good mix and may explain some of the many training crashes and incidents.
I know that someone is going to come back and say that all instructors pass an approved course but, speaking as one who has taught the British military instructors course (reckoned to be the best in the world), a brand new instructor neds constant supervision and post graduate training if he is to become a good instructor.
In the Military fixed wing world, good pilots are often 'creamed off' from training and sent on instructor courses before being put back into the training system - some are good but some have very poor attitudes because they find flying easy and can't understand why the student doesn't.
This is not done in the RW world and potential instructors must have completed (as mentioned in a previous post) at least one operational tour - they will have circa 1000 hours total (don't forget to add their hours from training to their operational flying) which I consider to be a minimum requirement.

[Rotorbee]

speaking as one who has taught the British military instructors course (reckoned to be the best in the world)

Now we are getting somewhere.

Why is this course the best in the world? I know a few contries where they say that they have the best course. The best pilots anyway.

How could we use this experience in the civil world?

And by enforcing an minimum of 1000 hours, how can a low time pilot get those 1000 hours?

Has anybody ever looked at the statistics for training accidents and the hours the instructors had?


PS: If my memory is right, statistics show the that the accident rate goes up for rw pilots with about 1000 hours.

[Ascend Charlie]

I can't remember the quote or even the source, but the gist of it went like this:

"There are three phases in a pilot's development.
The first is at about 100 hours, when a pilot thinks that he has got the game sewn up and is almost ready for a licence.

The second is around 300 hours, when the pilot reckons he knows all there is to know. He is truly dangerous.

If he survives the first two phases, he progresses to a stage where, at about 1000 hours, an amazing transformation takes place. When the pilot wants something to happen, it just does. No conscious effort is involved. Man becomes part of the machine, and if a surgeon picks up a scalpel and attempts to separate the pilot from the helicopter, he does not know where to start the cut."


or sumfing like that.

The fact that low-timers teach zero-timers is sad. It is an economical requirement in the civil world, but luckily in Oz the wannabe-instructor at least has to have SOME real-world experience before trying to pass on his limited knowledge.

[WLM]

Rotorbee

You build hours by working as a Hangar Rat, ie a slave for a few years...This is the normal way in Australia, and quickly filters out the wannabe freshly qualified pilot that thinks the world owes him/her a job... It normally takes about 2 to 3 years of hard dedication, living in remote locations, doing all type of work (non flying) to survive until you are given a chance to fly for a living. Most of the Aussie R/W pilots did it, doing ferry flights initially, followed by tourist charters, progressing onto Airwork and so. Most instructors in Aussie are then able to impart good experience onto their students, the stuff you don't find in textbooks, but will save your bacon one day.
;)

[Rotorbee]

Ok, now we have heard the aussie way.
Jobs as hangar rats are rare in other parts of the world. Ferry flying in some parts is nonexistent or not practical, because of insurance, type ratings and other requirements. Tour flying the same. Part 135 work requires a minimum of 500h.
Maybe sombody from europe has an idea, how a low time pilot can build hours?

[[email protected]]

Rotorbee - I am just repeating what others have said about the Central Flying School generally and the Helicopter element in particular.
Is there a civilian organisation that has 10 to 15 very experienced (between 2000 and 6000 hrs) in one place, has an almost unlimited supply of Squirrel helicopters, a 4-week groundschool, a syllabus that covers everything from effects of controls to mountain flying and has rich arab nations queueing up to fill places? CFSH exam wing are invited all over the world to assess and examine military RW operations, there must be a reason for it.

The civilian world constantly benefits from the experience of ex-military instructors taking up posts in the real world.

I don't claim that military pilots are better, there are many outstanding pilots who have never put on a uniform.

I think the 1000 hours statistic is out of date and stems from the days when a mil pilot on his first tour could notch up 1000 hrs in 2 years and maturity (or lack of it) was more the cause of accidents rather than the number of hours.

The biggest advantage the military has is in its ability to standardise pilots and instructors - the number and frequency of check-rides means that it is far less likely for an ill-informed instructor to get away with teaching poor techniques to students.

The civilian GA pilot suffers further because there is no requirement for post graduate (PPLH) training and so no-one bothers - therefore pilots often compound poor practices and errors and never improve, despite getting more hours.

[Rotorbee]

What did we get until now.
The aussie way as a hangar rat or the uk way as a military pilot. What I am still missing are ideas to get the civilian world to a higher safety level without taking away opportunities from low time pilots. I think that a complete review of the civilian training system should and could be donne.
The JAR idea to have an ATP as a target isn't such a bad idea. But flight schools shoud consider to run their operation rather like an airline where every training flight has a fligth plan, an objective and so on. By doing this, you would have a much better learning effect and tighter control about the students decision making process. This would mean more work for the instructor, therefore we could think about giving credit for ground school as flight hours to the instructor. Which would motivate them to teach ground school and do effective post- and preflight brefings.
Flight instructors that grow up in a system like this, could be earlier capable to teach effectively. But if a system like this is be successfull, insurance companies should consider to give a low time pilot a chance to do some real work.

Sugestions please, how we could make the training for civilian pilots better, without taking oppotunities away from low time pilots.

[Ascend Charlie]

Standardisation is a big issue.

In the Bad Old Days, the Department of Civil Aviation (pre-DoTA, CAA, CASA) had Examiners of Airmen, and they were the only ones allowed to issue licences and instructor ratings, instrument ratings etc. They worked for the Gummint, and supposedly all sang from the same sheet of music.

Then as things changed, the testing role was devolved in part to the industry and Approved Testing Officers were created to lighten CASA's load. That was where the divergence of standards really accelerated. It is now possible for an ATO to be working in a school which he owns, and in which he was taught himself, and outside of which he has never worked.

It is in his interests to have as many of his own students graduate to help his statistics along. He teaches his students, who become instructors and pass on the skinny knowledge which becomes skinnier and skinnier with each generation. No outside cross-fertilisation occurs. Not good.:{

[Rotorbee]

Ascend Charlie:
Aren't these ATO's under some control from the casa?



covers everything from effects of controls to mountain flying

Mountain Flying? In Great Britain? With the highest mountain having 1334 m? Ehem... :E
(just kidding)
Is there a civilian organisation that has 10 to 15 very experienced (between 2000 and 6000 hrs) in one place
Flight Safety? But they fly everything else, not Squirrels - sorry.
HAI? Don't know. CHC? UND?

[bellfest]

The thing I don't understand is that it is obvious that low houred instructors don't know how to fly properly and can't pass onto the student what their experiences have taught them. Using instructing as hour building is fine for the low houred instructor but what about the student?. $320+ per hour or whatever it is now is a lot to spend on aiding the hour building of an inexperienced instructor while not gaining the full advantage of industry experience and knowlegable airmanship. If this is how hour building is going to be achieved I think the industry needs to take a double dose of "Viagra Eyedrops"& have a long hard look at itself. Pack your gear and file your ornamental instructors ticket away and go out and build the hours the right way, not at some poor bugger who is spending a lot of money so hopefuly he can do the same things expense. The keen one's always get a start. It's natures way of culling.

[Rotorbee]

I wonder how many of you who replied here had to build their hours as instructors. (I didn't ) And I wonder how many of you had the taxpayer pay for your hours building. (Not mine) I think it is a bit unfair to pick on those who spend a lot of money to fullfill their dream and need that job to find a better job that they can survive on.
In good schools low time instructors are under constant supervision and you do not let them loose on complete newbies.
Until now I have not seen a lot of ideas how to make the system better. Instructing is for the moment the only way to build hours for most of the low time pilots on this planet. Not everyone can join the army. I have friend who is on her way to become a CHPL. And you know what? She will probably not get a job because she is a woman. This industry is often full of prejudices. Not a lot of hours? Bad pilot. That is sad. Instead trying to help low time pilots they have to feel guilty.

I have not seen any statistics about training accidents and the hours of the instructors. Therefore it is difficult to decide if the system is really as bad as some of you think.

Until now, most rulemaking agencies seem to think, that a low time pilot can be a good instructor. Otherwise they would have changed this years ago.

Most of the low time instructors I met tried to make the best job possible. Which I can not say about most of the high time instructors I met.

But now I give up.

[the coyote]

A couple of things I find interesting.

Firstly, it sounds to me like there's a very good chance in the military that you WON'T have a 10,000+ or even a 5,000+ hour instructor teaching you, for better or for worse. More like 1,000 hours, maybe 2 or 3? Any pilot with 3, 5, 10 or 20,000 hours knows how LITTLE they knew at 1,000 hours, regardless of what kind of flying they have done. I just think that's an interesting statistic. If you seek EXPERIENCE from an instructor, ie time in the saddle, there is a good chance you will get more from a civvie instructor then?

Secondly, maybe this hour building by instructing is big in the US or UK, but I don't think its such a big thing in Australia, from what I've seen. You can't finish your CPL in Oz and walk into a rotary instructor rating, you've got to have 400 hours minimum. Most pilots that get to 400 hours are already in jobs and so are getting hours anyway.

I know that when I did my instructor rating my motivation had nothing to do with building hours. It was simply this: I wanted to feel that if ever I was flogging along in a single and the engine stopped or I had a TR failure or some other emergency, that I'd feel rehearsed and confident in being able to put it down in one piece.

I have no doubt that instructing was good for that, you do hundreds if not thousands of autos and emergencies over and over again. In a year of instructing you'd probably do 10 years worth of emergencies that the average line pilot does on check rides.

[Fatigue]

Hey Bellfest, back to your original Question, a friend of mine who started instructing after he had 1500 hours rotary, said that that should be around about the minimum, as he knew he knew nothing about flying at 150-200hours....although he also understands that ecenomics dictate and wishes there was a solution. Not only does he teach people to fly and pass a test, but he now passes on valuble knowledge from experience that may save the students life one day, something he wouldn't have at 200 hours..
He now has 3000 hours,(1500 teaching) but also states some of the instructors he knows with more hours are good pilots but not very good instructors, so hours are not everything.
I wish there was a solution.
Fatigue.

[bellfest]

Hands_on123, what is that makes you think that you should be able to teach someone how to fly with 200 hours?. The rules say you can I know but in the real world mate that is ridiculous. You don't know how to fly yourself. No offence intended but if you are a competent enough pilot to teach others with 200 hours you're the only one in the history of the world. Do the hard yards mate and get a job and do your hours and get some experience first before trying to pass on knowledge you don't have. Instrument flying in helicopters in particular takes a lot of practice and experience before you can even get close to the stage of passing on any knowledge. The workload in IMC triples mate and there are a lot of things that IF experience needs to teach you before being competent enough to get yourself around let alone trying to teach someone else. However, it obviously does happen, I don't know how it's allowed but if that's the way you want to do it mate, go for it and good luck.

[Rotorbee]

Yup, go for it. The more training you get, the better. Nobody will give you a helicopter to fly IFR with 200 hours anyway. But some operators require an IFR rating for their 135 operation. As soon as you hit 500 h, you will have better job oportunities. After a 1000 h anyway. Do the CFII too. More training, better understanding. If you do not get a "normal" flying job, look for a good flightschool with a good chief flight instructor to help you to grow on the task of beeing an instructor. Take it serious and don't do it if you think that you just want build hours. Life depends on you. What you do as an instructor has an influence on the students for the rest of their carreer as pilots. And if you move on, don't let your students down. Finish the job.
Beeing an instructor is very rewarding and can be a lot of fun.

I wish you all the best and fly save.

[bellfest]

Fatigue, you're probably right mate and there may not be a solution. I just think the money outlayed warrants both good instruction and experience. It's been a while (not too long) since I did my training but I still attribute a lot of my home baked flying approach and airmanship to a good instructor with loads of industry experience. Where are you imabell, what do you wreckon?. Someone like NC would be about the level you'd want before an IR hey?

[ec135driver]

Bit of a vicious reply from bellfest? I started as an instructor in the US had about 162 hours give or take a few minutes.

When my chief pilot took me for breakfast apart from imparting his own 3 rules he answered my question about my own feelings regarding my lack of hours.

His attitude was that you can fly well enough to awarded a Commercial helicopter rating and a Certified Flight Instructor rating.

So as long as you can demonstrate exactly the manouvre you are teaching, at the correct speed, heights, rates of climb or descent then it doesn't matter how many hours you have it cannot be done any more exactly!

Sure I didn't know anything about load lifting, filming, police or hems flying, but then I wasn't trying to teach any of that either.

Be precise, accurate and never ever show off, resist that urge at the end of an hour flogging around the sky to say "Relax, I have control....."

The best instructor I have had, never touched the controls except to help.

By all means get the extra ratings, each time you get in the aircraft again as a student will help you remember what your students are going through! and they WILL make you a better pilot.

Fly safe

[bellfest]

ec135, My intention was not to be vicious, as you can see from my post re: IR's I just think that there should be a certain amount of practicle experience gained prior to instructing whether its autos or circuits purely for the students benefit. Particularly instrument flying. I am not saying that there are not low houred instructors out there that can't be a worthy benefit to the student, I am saying that there are definetely ones out there that can't be and that's what needs to be stopped. Hands_on123 might be a gun and have the ability to give a student every cents worth of his money payed but the law of averages says he won't be. Bit like takin your car to the mechanic and havin the apprentice do the work, except it doesn't cost $35,000 +.

[Flingwing207]

Bellfest, you have certainly made your beliefs known!

However, especially with the IR, there is an aspect to learning you overlooked. IFR flight is first and foremost about procedure. Following procedure, understanding how to use the system, knowing the rules. Although there might be a lot of grey in the sky, there is little grey in the flying.

The undeclared, but tacitly official route to being a turbine pilot is via getting your ratings then working as an instructor (or the military, but that channel won't supply more than a small percent of the new pilots needed). Therefore, the civilian CFII track has become the "internship".

I understand your dismay at having someone who most likely has never piloted in actual training new IFR students, but remember that if the pilot is well-trained on instrument scan and aircraft control, procedure, weather, ATC and so on, then the presence of "actual" should not aversely affect the pilot's abilities. Since that CFII will most likely teach hundreds of hours of IFR training, they will be well drilled and practiced in all elements of IFR flight. Their students will likewise spend their time as CFII's. Only one in a thousand may somehow skip this step.

(In case you're wondering, I have never flown a helicopter in actual, nor would I want my first such flight to be SPIFR. However, I've never flown an EC130 either, nor would I want my first flight in one to be solo. This doesn't invalidate my training or CFI/CFII experience.)

Finally, the evidence shows (your gut feeling doesn't count) that our system for developing new IFR pilots is working. The helicopter IFR incidents/accidents seem to be indifferent to the relative experience level of the PIC (in terms of hours, anyway).

In the dream world (at least for this CFII), we would take new CFII's, put them in the SIC position for a few hundred hours, then return them to train new IFR pilots. However the safety stats for IFR ops don't seem call for that. They call for a review of operational policy, not pilot training.

[B Sousa]

Bellfast jumps in with both feet for sure. FAA says you can get lots of ratings with low times. Seaplane add on is five hours if you have a private. Try and get someone to let you use there C206 with only 5 hours on floats. Not going to happen. Commercial Helicopter add on... Not many hours either if you have fixed wing time. Still no reason to jump in a Helicopter and play sky god.,
Licenses themselves are a permit to go learn more. IF you have an opportunity to get more ratings, go for it. It will do nothing more than keep your head in the books a little longer and cannot hurt your advancement in your career.

[bellfest]

Flingwing, maybe I should tone it down a tad as I don't want to sound as though I am vindictive towards those who are trying to gain experience. The reason the statistics show that these accidents don't occur is because in the real world pilots of that calibre aren't allowed to conduct any serious type of IF flying without an experienced captain in the other seat. I am by no means an experienced IFR pilot but have a couple of hundred hours night experience offshore the majority being IMC and I'll be damned if I think I am ready to try and teach anyone how to do it yet. I feel confident in all aspects of IFR flight but when you're exposed to the elements and the pressure is on, äctual"IF is a far cry from the training. All in all mate I guess I could just button up as it will only go as well as the CFI overseaing the operation will allow. Hands_on123 I sincerely hope that if you choose this path you have a long and fruitful career and are able to give the students what they are paying for

[B Sousa]

"so the FAA IR is pretty worthless when i return to europe"

Again heres another way to look at it. If you have the money......
The rating may not do you any good, but the training will be cheaper in the states and make it easier for you to get your rating back across the pond. And it may save your butt should you get into one of those "Inadvertant IMC" conditions that kill most who do not have the rating..

[Rotorbike]

hands_on123

If you intend to use a J1 visa to the maximum then the gaining of a CFII will help that goal as it will help you gain your first job faster. Plus it helps you gain more hours as you will be the instructor available to teach basic IFR instruction, as required, during FAA Commercial training.

It will also help you in the future when you decide to do the JAA instrument as you will have various dispensations for already holding an ICAO instrument.

If someone could give a constructive alternative in the US to instructing for your first job I'm sure most would head in that direction. Unfortunately there isn't!!

:cool: :cool:

[[email protected]]

Rotorbee - I think you should address your criticisms to the helicopter industry not the military. How many helicopter operators actually train their own ab-initio pilots? How many are happy for others to train them (military, self-help etc) and then employ them? The reasons are surely financial as each operator seeks to squeeze the last buck from the contract. Does this mean it's right? I don't think so and it encourages the nomadic tendencies of the commercial helo pilot who needs show little loyalty to a company who has shown him none.
There is no way on earth that a low time instructor can give the same quality of training as one with experience - he/she will spend most of their time twitching as the student tries to kill them rather than anticipating the error as they have seen it many times before.

[VECTOR THRUST]

Helicopter Intstructing

Has anYone out there got any idea what a newly qualed rotory instructor could expect to earn in the uk or abroad.

I am a ex military helo engineer by trade

[Whirlybird]

£30-40 per flying hour in the UK. How much you actually nmake depends on how many hours you can fit in...most people save over the summer for those dark, bad weather winters. :(

[Haggis Hunter]

I agree, £30-40/hr, unless your on a fixed salary.

[CRAZYBROADSWORD]

30 - 45 pounds an hour sounds about right you can expect between 15 to 25 grand a year depends how much of your social life you want to give up. But if you ex mil why not try going straight for a commercial job as most of the larger companies have ex mil pilots at the top anyway.

[Bravo73]

Er, working as a part-time heli Instructor (by all accounts). :)

But I'm sure that she'll probably tell you that herself as soon as she reads your post....


B73

[Whirlybird]

Er, working as a part-time heli Instructor (by all accounts).

Bravo73, got it in one, and you may go to the top of the class. :ok:

And now may I suggest that this thread which has been resurrected from the depths should be allowed to die a natural death...again! :)

[flyingdogguitar]

Hi fellow Rotorvators,
I have a basic PPL(H) on an R22, and I'm thinking of getting into instructing. As I'm told I'm basically too old to get involved in commercial flying, having reached the ripe old age of 43. I also have a PPL(A) with around 130 HRS TT. I guess with current hire rates, it may be prudent to go to the states. But I guess you have to offset this against air-fares, accomodation and fair weather flying (generally).
Anyone do anyhting similar?

Any advice gratefully received



Dave

[Camp Freddie]

hey flyingdogguitar

I think that the advice you have been given is total horse s**t,
there should be no reason why you should not get your instructor rating build your hours and progress in time and with experience to charter on R44/B206 or similar with an onshore organisation.

I agree that getting into north sea flying may be tough, but even this could possibly be done if you had an instrument rating in due course. (before you get really crusty!)

organisations in my experience dont look too much at age, they look at how much will it cost them to get this bloke on line and how much experience he has, there is no sentimentality, but loads of commercial expediency

regards

CF

[jemax]

Hi,

I am about to start FI course and I wonder if anyone has any recommended reading pre course start.

I finished ATPL exams in May so am quite fresh and re-reading coursework, have re read Wagtendonk about 10 times and 50% of it makes sense now! Fatal traps too, but are there any other books I should know well beforehand, learning R22 flight manual inside out.

The helicopter instructor manual is available on e-bay at the mo' is it worth buying?

Plus any other advice generally.

Thanks

[Torquetalk]

Can anyone provide the reference for 500TT prior to teaching at a commercial level? Have looked in LASORS and ANO, but perhaps have missed it?

Thanks

TT

[Whirlygig]

Which country/regime do you mean? In the UK, it is now 250 hours.

Cheers

Whirls

[Torquetalk]

I have a definitive answer on this now as per the CAA. It is not in the ANO or LASORs. However it is a requirement as per JAR-FCL 2.330(b).

The 250 requirement Whirly is a min TT expereince requirement to begin an FI(H) course. Once qualified you can only teach to PPL level until the restriction has been lifted and the above regulation is satisfied.

TT

[Whirlygig]

Ah! I see! When you said "commercial" you meant teach CPL? I just thought you meant "teach flying for a living"-type commercial! Alles klar!

Cheers

Whirls

[outofwhack]

I cant find it in LASORS.

Anyone!, can you count any fixed-wing time toward the 250 hours pre-requisite before you can start the training for FI(H).

I am commercially rated on both planks and helicopter but have only 100hrs rotary but a thousand on planks.

OOW

[The Nr Fairy]

No. It has to be 250 hours rotary. And LASORS section H1.5 refers.

[spinwing]

Mmmmm ......


And even 250 Hrs ONLY of rotary flight is I think being very generous toward the applicant in my opinion!

:eek:

[AvioCopter]

I am interested where I can make Instructor Rating (H) in Europe
(I prefer Austria, Germany, CZ, Slovakia, Hungary, Switzerland or close
to that countries.) according to JAR FCL2 and on R22.
So I need addresses for such FTOs.

Regards.

[206Fan]

http://www.pprune.org/forums/showthread.php?s=&threadid=145183

[AvioCopter]

Dear Davy07

I read almost all in thread http://www.pprune.org/forums/showthr...hreadid=145183
but I didn't find the answer to my question.
There are almost all about FTOs in UK.

[helibob]

Hello all, I am a newly qualified JAA CPL (H) with around 260 hours total of which 45 have been flown in the Uk and the rest in the states. I am looking to gain experience through the instructor route and am after some advice from anyone that has been down this road or is currently in a similar position. I have had a few bad experiences during my training in the motherland and have found that some people in the industry over here have a very negative attitude towards FAA training which has seriously affected my confidence. I myself loved my time in the states, having felt encouraged and part of a family of like minded people with very clear objectives that they were working towards. The competition element of training with a number of people with similar hours was also a great benefit to me. So finally I come to the point. Please can people give me feedback on their instructor courses / opinions of training organisations in the UK and the most effective way of flying the remaining hours I need to start the Instructor course. I understand if anyone does not want their views aired on the forum and would be happy to receive anonymous e-mails to helibob at tiscali. Thanks in anticipation. helibob

[Firefly01]

I have found instructing to be a very valuable string to have on the bow. The course itself (depending on where/who you do it with) will force you to learn an awful lot about flying. I would go as far to say it is the second hardest flying course you can do behind a JAA Instrument Rating. Teaching itself can be very rewarding. Like anything, there are good days and bad, though generally it is good fun and helps pay the bills. The other thing to consider is that you are a lot more employable as an instructor/commercial pilot than just a CPL. If you can land a job within a decent outfit, it should open a few doors for you i.e. gaining commercial experience and type ratings depending on what type of outfit you go to. Looking back, I would still choose to become an instructor all over again. In terms of where to do the course - you need not look any further than Mike Green at Helicopter Services High Wycombe. The most experienced guy to do it with. Hope this helps.
FF01

[misterbonkers]

Helibob,

I think a lot of the negative attitude towards FAA is when someone goes to the states, does a PPL(H) in 45hours in blue sky and sunshine then comes back over here and expects to rack up at a school and SFH a machine straight off.

With your hours you should have a lot less of an issue on that front.

FI Course wise if you're still based in Yorkshire then I believe Geoff Day does courses out of Sandtoft. Whilst I did my CPL(H) course with him, I did not do my FI training with him but would have preferred to if it had been an option at the time.

If you want contact details then just message me.

MB

[helibob]

Thanks mrbonkers. I'll go check him out.

[pierce]

Hello,

as my colleague and I would like to go for the Flight Instructor rating, and as in the 'lower countries', there is no FTO available for this kind of training, we're wundering if anyone can help us out here.

We're looking for a FTO who offers the training in English, on the Robinson R22, preferably during november/december of this year. The country is not really an issue.

PIC time 1600/2100 hrs.

Thanks.

[choppertop]

Seconded. Cap'n Green is a legend.

[heli-mad]

Hi there,

Geoff Day at Sandtoft Helicopters is another option for you. Did mine a few years back...VERY experienced pilot!!:ok:

Tel 01427874949 for Sandtoft..

Good luck

H M

[TiPwEiGhT]

Mike Green or Derek Jones would be my recommendaions.

TiP

[albyskoons]

Forgive me if this has already been answered:

LASORS H1.10 says that not less than 15 hours are to be completed on a specific type within the previous 12 months for it to be included in the FI rating.

Where does the 12 month requirement come from?

FCL 2.310A6 doesn't mention 12 months , and I can't find it in Schedule 8.


So is it 15 hours total experience, of 15 hours in the past 12 months?

:confused:

[heli-man]

As I see it... types are not "included" in an FI rating. In your licence it just says "FLIGHT INSTRUCTOR". And all your type ratings are listed in the usual place.

I think the "15 hour" rule is a CAA made-up rule. And I am sure if you do your type rating test/renewal with a "Flight Instructor Examiner" (FIE) you are exempt from the "15 hour" rule.

But you better ask Fred Cross.

This is why LASORS is useless. It's not UK law, its a 'summary' of the CAA's intepretation of JAR FCL and the ANO.

Come to that, even JAR is not law. In fact, the JAA doesn't exist anymore. Everything is now governed by EASA.

Confused?

And we wonder where all the money goes

[jeepys]

The only 15 hour requirement I know of regarding F.I. stuff is that you need 15 hours P1 on type before you can instruct on it.

Thanks.

[VeeAny]

Briefly as I am planning for the next few days.

The 15 hours is not needed if you pass an FI test, not a Type Rating test with an FIE.

In amendment 3 they missed out the 15hour requirement due to a typo.

It is back in,in amendment 6 and is in one of the paragraphs included by AIC 72/2007 (my favourite subject). The para referred to above by albyskoons, 2.310a(6)

The only mention I can find of 15 hours in the last 12 months is for the renewal of an FI rating in 2.320G and that doesn't say it has to be on one type.

[General Mutley]

Hi all. Does anybody know anything about a possible change in the requirements to become a JAA PPL(H) Flight Instructor? Namely not requiring a CPL (H). Aparently this has alredy happended for fixed wing and is in the pipeline for us. I have tried to search online but with no luck.:ugh:
Cheers

[foxmead]

My nephew is moving back to the UK and wants to do his FI course, he is open to where he would go in the UK to complete the training, he is rated on the 22 & 300 but would prefer to do the course on the 300.

I hear Fast at Shoreham have a good reputation, would appreciate feedback on the quality of schools & training you have knowledge of.

[Sliding Doors]

Mike Green gets my vote, via Helicopter Services at Wycombe. Far better than anybody FAST could provide.

[foxmead]

Thanks SD, Wycombe dont have a Schwizer do they?

[Sliding Doors]

I don't believe they have a 300.
Personally quality of tuition would be my primary concern, and Mike is superb.

Think your nephew will have to look further North of a 300 FI course.

Before parting with money, perhaps look at this link, if you're not aware of the ongoing Longmint saga (they own FAST)

UK: Longmint Aviation on brink of collapse | Helihub - the Helicopter Industry Data Source (http://www.helihub.com/2011/04/07/uk-longmint-aviation-on-brink-of-collapse/)

[Flap-Back]

Quality of instruction definitely the most important factor. Geoff Day is also a superb instructor - he does courses on the 300.

FB

[foxmead]

Thanks for the link SD, seems as though the current economic climate has not finished with the aviation industry just yet. I will forward your referral to my nephew, thats all he would need is to start a course and the company folds.

Foxmead

[foxmead]

Hi FB
Thanks for your reply. i will let my nephew know about GD.

Foxmead

[AlfonsoBonzo]

Can anyone recommend a flight school where I can get an instructor rating in Switzerland?

[GoodGrief]

The rating has to be valid before you take the CFI test.
As a FI you must be able to act as PIC hence a valid type rating.

[Helinut]

The other factor that is definitive is how long ago your FI rating went invalid. If it was more than 5 yrs then your FIE/FIC needs to talk to the Belgrano i.e. Fred Cross. But, on past experience they will just come back and say sufficient retraining, at the discretion of the FTO to pass the test. I approached this myself a while ago.

[Helinut]

That was exactly the conclusion I came to, as well. :{

[GoodGrief]

Get it renewed, make sure it is valid in April 2012 with all the new EASA crap coming along.
Only valid tickets will be converted to the new system.
I'm in the same boat, only I also have to get my basic CPL valid again, all TR expired, been flying out of JAR.

[hands_on123]

Is that true? If I don't renew by April 2012 I will lose it due to EASA???

[turbinturbin]

But do you have to do it on a single engine piston rating?
It should be possible and might be cheaper to do it on a turbine rating you have in stead of renewing a piston rating.
If you only have rating on big twins it might be expensive and difficult but on a jetranger or so it could be an option.

[hands_on123]

Yes, I don't have any single engine turbine ratings at all, just a "large" twin rating, and it would not be possible to renew an FI rating on that!

[Nealzinmallorca]

I'm looking to do my FI course this winter, and I understand it is better to do the course with A.N Other.

Does anyone out there want to team up with me?

Cheers

[redlandr22]

Just received confirmation that I'm starting my FI course late Jan 2012, @ Heliflight Staverton and would be grateful for any advice on preparation, advice on reading / studying in the next 2 months ? Thanks

[uniformkilo]

Great question. There's enough to be done on the course learning how to talk while flying accurately, without having to catch up on stuff as well.

I'd say any of the following would help:

Learn by heart the POH, all the power margins (both take-off and landing), and autorotation speeds. Make sure you can explain to a friend every diagram in the POH, and how you would react to every emergency and why.

Revise so you can explain fluently to a friend how dissymmetry of lift, inflow roll, flapping to equality, flapback, and LTE work. There are some great theory briefing notes on Helitutor (http://www.helitutor.com/Theory.html).

Practise drawing a complete frontal system from the side from memory, and explain to a friend what weather you'll observe from the ground as it passes.

Find out which set of briefing notes you'll be using on your course, and use them to sketch your own version of all of the exercises so you're familiar with the syllabus.

[ÞOS]

Hi you all!

I was thinking if someone could give me an answer.

I have an JAA ATPL(H) license and I'ld like to do an instructor course ,and they requirements needed to do so, preferably in the states.
I've asked couple of training providers and there is, of course, no problem doing my training, but they all say that since I'm not an US citizen I won't get any job as an instructor without getting an visa somewhere. And they won't provide an working visa.

Someone been in this situation and can give me any advices?

[Nealzinmallorca]

Hello,

I am going to be taking my FI course with Sloane Helicopters in Sywell within the next few weeks.

At the moment i will be taking the course on my own :sad:. I would much prefer to take the course with someone else so we can bounce ideas of each other etc etc. :D

Is there anyone out there who wants to and is ready to take the course with me?

Cheers
Neal

[Chico de la noche]

Hello to all,
Just a question: please, could someone suggest me a good helicopter flight school offering excellent instructors for FI(H) courses in UK?

Thanks guys!

[Hughes500]

There is only one place really, go and see Mike Green and Leon Smith at Helicopter Services at High Wycombe.:ok:

[ersa]

http://www.centralhelicopters.com)

click on FI....

[Chico de la noche]

Hey thanks a lot for your quick reply Huges500 & Ersa.
Well, FI(H) course on R22 helicopter?

Thanks a lot again guys!

[tu154]

Mike Buckland at HeliAir Gloucester. Best man for the job, in my experience.

[Redland]

Have not flown with Mike Green, but Mike Buckland and Leon Smith are both very good, and defiantly recomended.

[Chico de la noche]

Ok tu154 & Redland
Are these flight instructors able to teach FI(H) students on R22 helo?

Thanks! :-)

[Hughes500]

Chico
Mike Green and Leon both use the R22. You would be mad not to use them ! You will also meet a lot of useful contacts at Heliservices !

[muermel]

Has anybody got any info on Heli Transair in Egelsbach (Germany)? I thought about doing some training with them and have already visited them. Seems loke a good school.

Any more info by PM wold be greatly appreciated :ok:

Bye

[Chico de la noche]

I agree with you Huges!
I asked this to be sure about helicopter type in use.
A lot of flight schools in EASAland (and in USA) still use S300..

Ok, great...
Thanks!

[uniformkilo]

Hi Chico

I'd say if you're looking for quality, as per the above suggestions, the list should include Duncan Bickley at Aeromega (http://www.aeromega.com) in Cambridge.

I should declare an interest; I instructed there for a couple of years, after doing my FI course there in 2011.

I found the FI course to be rigorous and, well, just seriously good. I came to it with 1000 private-owner hours in both turbines and in piston Robinsons, and learned a lot while flying with Duncan, both about how to teach and how to use the R22 safely as a training machine.

While working there I was encouraged to develop my skills further as part of a very professionally managed set-up. The whole ethos is sound.

Hope this helps.

UK

[Chico de la noche]

Hey, thanks for your suggestion UniformKilo!
Yes, I'm sure I'll go and meet all of them at Helicopter Services Ltd., HeliAir, Central helic. and Aeromega.
I'm seeking, of course, for the most reasonable training / costs ratio.
Unfortunately I haven't got unlimited economic resources...
However I really want to convert my FAA CFI rating into EASA FI(H) on my EASA Commercial licence according to CAA UK CAP804 (30hours ground school an 15 of flight).

Thanks a lot boys!

[HeliboyDreamer]

Hi guys,

I am looking at a good FI(H) school in the UK preferably (but would also look elsewhere in europe). Are the suggestions from above thread last year still actual?

That is should I still look at the below;

Helicopter Services Ltd
HeliAir
Central helicopter
Aeromega

Any other suggestion?

What about www.nheli.se (http://www.nheli.se) (in Sweden) and Helicentre Aviation? I have met them both at Helitech a few years ago and they seemed a good option to me.

Let me know your unbiased views on the above please.

[ersa]

Can Highly recommend these :

Central Helicopters
https://www.centralhelicopters.com/learn-to-fly/flight-instructor-rating-fih/


European Helicopters in Norway
Courses - Helikopterskole / Helicopter School - EHC (http://www.ehc.no/_global/courses/courses)