View Full Version : Nice Send Off & Good Luck

15th Sep 2004, 11:16
Around 1100 today I heard the pilot of a Triple 7 on approach to 27L at LHR saying in response to final landing clearance "...cleared to land, and after 30 years as a BA pilot this is my final landing"

ATC responded with "let's hope its a good one then!"

And prior to hand over from Ground the message came from ATC

"You got a 5.9, 5.9 and a 'not good enough, go round and try again'."

Nice to know there's still time for good humour and camaradarie even at a busy airport such as LHR.

And to the pilot BA pilot, whoever you are, have a long and happy retirement!

15th Sep 2004, 11:44
I hope that your wife knows she has to feed and water you every 20 minutes mate..? Happy holidays and if I know anything you'll be out there job hunting within three months.

15th Sep 2004, 13:06
Nice story.

DEOne what are you talking about :)

15th Sep 2004, 14:28
Reminds me of a similar story at manc the other night. An Air Atlanta (iceland) capt (excel colours) announced after one season on a validation of his cornflake packet it was his last landing.

A poignant moment enhanced by the voice in response ;

"good now F@@K off":}

15th Sep 2004, 15:36
Good luck and good health, Captain, if you read this.. We must have spoken many times and I hope I didn't give you too many grey hairs!

Joyce Tick
15th Sep 2004, 15:56
Shame he had to do his last approach the sector before.... (BA SOP's in case you're wondering)

surely not
15th Sep 2004, 17:07
Hmmmm .......... last landing after 30 years loyal service............. I think he might just have told the FO to take a break and landed it himself :D

15th Sep 2004, 18:32
BA SOP's ???

Where on earth did you get that jem from?

The only SOP is that the Captain decides who does the landing!!

Ther was no way I was not going to "plant" my last 777 arrival at gatwick. Alas there were no 5.9's, but luckily no manager to meet me at 6.30 on a Sunday morning!

Joyce Tick
15th Sep 2004, 21:16
OK Woodpecker - at what stage on the approach/descent into LHR did you say "I have control"? Who, if not you, "monitored" the approach? The SOP is that the landing pilot monitors the non-landing pilot as he flies the approach - even if it's CAVOK...

15th Sep 2004, 21:27
I did the approach, but as the crosswind was five knots I felt I could not allow the copilot to land the machine so had to do it myself!

Get my drift?

Joyce Tick
15th Sep 2004, 21:31
Well - I think you should be severely disciplined and your pension halved, for this gross violation of the spirit of BA SOP's ( mind you, you probably wouldn't notice if your pension was halved!!!)

16th Sep 2004, 07:48
Hopefully the chap who retired a couple of days ago is on "part six" as well.

Someone must know who it was..

Cap 56
16th Sep 2004, 08:03
Silly BA policy,

Who is flying when the aircraft is on autopilot? Of course the autopilot, is it not ?

Who is monitoring the autopilot when the autopilot is engaged ? The pilot flying is he not ?

Who should be landing when the weather is marginal ? The captain of course?

Who should be having his fingers on the to ga buttons when the autopilot is landing in marginal weather ? The captain of course?

Why ? Because it is his responsabilirty

16th Sep 2004, 08:08
I guess that would depend entirely on the company's policy. One major airline that I know has the FO as PF for all bad weather approaches and the Captain as PNF in order to monitor. The FO initiates the GA when there is no contact and the captain takes over as PF at DH.

16th Sep 2004, 08:37
Cap 56 suggests "silly policy"

DEOne suggests differently.

After flying with the BA (BEA) procedure for 35 years I'm with DEOne .

Obviously in good weather it doesn't matter who is flying the approach, but in bad weather, with or without the A/P the copilot flies, the Captain monitors, and at the prescribed prompt of decide makes the decision.

If it works in bad weather why change it when the visibility is good. However, the procedures allow the Captain to make the decision early (for example with 10k vis and 30kts across he would want to be hands on earlier) and take control with "visual, I have control".

If you haven't tried it don't knock it! That applies to the pension as well (part six, final salary you see)

Enjoy your retirement Nigel, its great out here, and you get to sleep in a bed every night.

Cap 56
16th Sep 2004, 08:40
I think that's the way to do it.

With autopilot engaged there is no problem to transfer control.

If autopilot is not engaged and WX is marginal:

1. F/O flies using raw data and F/D.

2. Capt monitors raw data tracking and uses F/D to monitor PF input.

When satisfied with 2 and visual cues are ok at DH or VDP cpt takes over and lands while F/O continues to look at raw data.


You are overreacting, DEOne is stating the same as I do.

Maybe the intention of BA is the same however I think it is silly to talk in terms of Capt, F/O, PF, PNF, Pilot Landing and Pilot Not Landing.

If it works in bad weather why change it when the visibility is good.

At first sight there may be some logic in that, but it is twisted.

There is no reason to imply the restrictions that are applicable to low vis on a approach in good wx.

There is however some logic to restrict the liberties that are allowed on an approach in good wx when the wx becomes marginal.

Most approaches are in good wx, that is what you are most familiar with since you do it every day. It\'s logic to take that as a reference not the other way around.

In other words. If you drive you car in good weather you drive at normal speeds. You do not say in good wx ďI will drive at low speed as if it would rain and then decide, Ohn Itís not raining I will drive fasterĒ Thatís for people who are scared of driving.

Joyce Tick
16th Sep 2004, 09:11
"If it works in bad weather why change it when the visibility is good"

Well- a two or three autopilot autoland works well in bad weather so why change it for a manually flown approach and land whenever you feel like it and conditions permit? If you're going to use that "works in bad wx" argument you might at least be consistent!

I did try the system before I knocked it - never could understand why 12 change-overs of control between 2 pilots were needed on a double Paris when it was COK at both ends.....

16th Sep 2004, 09:43
This is slightly off topic, but I recently flew on a Continental 777 from LGW to IAH and it was the Captain's last flight too. He made a beautiful PA thanking all of todays and yeterdays and yesteryears passengers for flying with Continental and for thus helping to pay his mortage, fund his kids through school and enabling to take his wife on her dream holiday. It was a really nice touch. The Captain visited the cabin and spoke and shook hands with EVERY ONE of the passengers (fully laden flight)

There were much more PA from the cockpit than usual and he "talked" us into IAH including intermittent details about the approach and landing and taxiing.

Water cannons upon arrival at the gate area in IAH.

The PA's reminded me about the BBC TV series, Airport, and there was a BA captain called Douglas Ord who used to captain 757's on Fear of Flying courses. He also used to talk throughout every stage of the flight on the PA, explaining to nervous flyers each and every stage of the flight, every turn and every bump.

Whatever happened to Captain Ord? I haven't seen "Airport" for quite some time, but its long time since seeing him on it.

And to the retiring BA777 Captain......... thanks Sir. Have a long and happy retirement. Did you get a water cannon salute too?

Tony Flynn
16th Sep 2004, 09:50
Aviaco, did a quick google and found this - http://www.andrewwalton.co.uk/newpage2.htm
Check out the second book down, it appears sadly that Captain Ord is no longer with us, I also saw him on airport and was left significantly impressed by the man.

Cap 56
16th Sep 2004, 10:09
Because it is not reasonable and sometimes not even allowed, to use the full capability of the aircraft, if the associated operational context is non present.

Consistency is not an argument that is convincing when you are consistently doing the wrong thing for example.

16th Sep 2004, 10:54
I got my water cannons ex Bermuda, and bearing in mind water is very precious on the island it was a nice touch.

I liked Bermuda! (and still do)

16th Sep 2004, 10:58
FAO Aviaco - check your PMs.