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Minesagrolsch
18th Sep 2001, 15:04
This is the PP RUMOUR NE and as such this is still only a RUMOUR,but a very strong one from a VERY reliable source.
BA is set to announce 7500 job cuts which will include about 400 flight crew.They are set to ground the 737 fleet at LHR as well as scrap the 747 Classic fleet asap.They are also in talks with Steven Byers (speling?) and there is even talk of a tie up of some order with Virgin.

Fly747
18th Sep 2001, 17:57
Yeah and classics to be on MOD standby. To be retired anyway so no prob if grunts wreck the interiors.

Minesagrolsch
18th Sep 2001, 18:03
Whadda you mean ?There's quite a few ex-grunts flying the things anyway !!

Avoiding Action
18th Sep 2001, 21:15
Hope you chaps aren't getting grunts mixed up with crabs - there is a difference, you know :D

Minesagrolsch
18th Sep 2001, 21:18
You're right,there is a difference.about 6 brain cells !!


Joke guys,joke !! :eek:

Captain Numpty
18th Sep 2001, 21:36
Hi Chaps

Whilst I appreciate the humour being banted around. Lets just have a little respect for the enormity of what "might" happen here. After all, who knows, you might all be casualties yet!

Sorry........I just felt I had to say something.

No hard feelings, I hope.

C.N.

Carnage Matey!
19th Sep 2001, 00:42
Oh S***!

See you down the job centre on Tuesday boys! :(

JB007
19th Sep 2001, 01:12
Just to put the record straight :
This is absolute [email protected]!

overstress
19th Sep 2001, 01:39
Care to enlighten us further, JB?

I heard similar tales of woe at W****side today.

RogerTangoFoxtrotIndigo
19th Sep 2001, 04:52
aahhh waterworld :D i was there during the good times. didnt it cost more than a classic to build?

maybe they should sellthe building and keep the planes flying :p :p :p if times get tough watch out for swan a la orange on the menu!

Fly747
19th Sep 2001, 11:01
JB007, maybe any attempt at black humour at this time is misguided, apologies for any offence. There is however no point you being in denial. 30k jobs to go at Boeing, "Times" today, concorde may never fly again. We're talking survival here, the threat must be countered and Rod must take swift and decisive action.

[ 19 September 2001: Message edited by: Fly747 ]

Final 3 Greens
19th Sep 2001, 11:25
Which 737 fleet at LHR is that then???????

Minesagrolsch
19th Sep 2001, 11:51
JB007,
Thanks for that informed contribution.Actually you are right,it is crap.Last week didn't happen and BA are just about to announce an order for 40 Airbus A3XX and they are recruiting 500 more pilots.Is that what you want to hear ?

Final,three greens,is there more than one 737 Fleet at LHR ?

wallup
19th Sep 2001, 12:44
Getting a bit heated here.

I thought that there weren't any BA 737s left at LHR, mostly A319s, though I could be wrong.

Any news on the British Airways Citi Express recruitment? I suspect that you may see some guys move from mainline to BACE - which sort of makes sense.

Saw on Teletext last night that City analysts were predicting BA losses of 1m due to the crisis, I don't know why but that seemed an underestimation to me.

qwertyuiop
19th Sep 2001, 12:58
Wallup.

You are correct. It was later corrected to 1 billion.

Final 3 Greens
19th Sep 2001, 14:44
Minesagrolsch

Not to my knowledge and that one belongs to Midland.

You may see the odd BAR 737 kicking around Heathrow or a Eurofleet 737 from LGW for ops reasons, but the fleets are Airbus'.

Minesagrolsch
19th Sep 2001, 15:23
Final 3 Greens.
Thanks for that.But you are talking a load of crap.
There is a dedicated fleet of 737-400's at LHR operated by BA.Nothing to do with Bar or Eog.
They currently operate to places such as Helsinki,Geneva,Budapest as well as domestic stuff such as Glasgow.
The large 737 fleet WAS shut down by some bright management spark for a few months until they decided to re-open it a short time later.Speak to any other BA pilot and they will confirm this.

Pandora
19th Sep 2001, 16:13
Final 3 Greens,

Either I have been living on fantasy island for the last 18 months or there are BA B737s at LHR. I should know - I fly them. On Monday Chris Darke was a pax on our flight. He had a lot of interesting info, but nothing to say on the status of the 737 fleet. If someone knows something concrete then let us know. If not - shut up. :mad:

52049er
19th Sep 2001, 19:50
400 Flight crew cuts - OK over a year say, how many senior guys are retiring? All Rod + co need to do is stop recruitment for a couple of years (see recent announcements) and voila, 400 fewer pilots, and those remaining earn a lower average. Hope Im not being too obvious here, as I currently lie in the danger zone :eek:

thallam
19th Sep 2001, 20:22
We'll doubtless find the real answers very soon. Meanwhile, much of the answer is pretty apparent. The 747-200 was already history.BA will cut those parts of the operation that are currently losing money and stop all cross-subsidisation. This will certainly hit LGW and what is left of the regions very hard. My guess is that we will also see a handfull of 400's in the desert for a while and no more short haul 767's at LHR. Looks like Ayling got it right interms of capacity reduction.
We are bound to see encouragement for part time working and sabbaticals, which may appeal to some longer serving flight crew. As to whether we get compulsory redundancies, who knows. It's never happened quite like that at BA as yet, but these are certainly unusual times.

MaxDiff
19th Sep 2001, 21:09
It's looking like the airline industry is heading for the hill's faster than Bin Laden !! :mad:

Hand Solo
19th Sep 2001, 21:14
Since when have LGW and the regions been cross-subsidised from LHR? If theres a cash flow in this company its from everywhere else down to LHR to fund such vast follies as Waterworld.

Mr Angry from Purley
19th Sep 2001, 22:46
Quote from BA A319 Captain.

"BA will never get rid of any Pilots, but we'll certainly moan about it anyway".

Maybe he's wrong....




:mad: :mad:

thallam
19th Sep 2001, 22:49
LGW and regions have always been subsidised from LHR. Why do you think Branson was so desperate to move in there? Waterside is a different question. I certainly think you could argue that it is now an expensive luxury - but that arguement is quite independent of the operation at LHR.

Egg Mayo
19th Sep 2001, 23:00
No one has mentioned white collar staff in the likely cull. Would any one care to speculate or this like a red rag to a bull?

Final 3 Greens
19th Sep 2001, 23:11
Minesagrolsch

I owe you an apology - would explain more, but not in a public forum.

Best wishes over the next few months.

Macman
19th Sep 2001, 23:28
:mad: Norfolk - the regions are not subsidised by LHR - they are run as seperate subsidiary companies (BAR at MAN and BHX for example). True, the regions have always struggled to make money but I fear LHR will now be joining the struggle to make a profit.

thallam
19th Sep 2001, 23:59
Stabtrim - you are quite correct. EOG is a separate company as well, but they have all struggled to make money prior to recent events. LHR was at least starting from +ve territory. From the point of view of the employees, this may well be a technicality. The whole organisation will need to retrench to a position where money is not being thrown overboard at such a rate. I still maintain that the heaviest cuts are likely in the regions but certainly some consolidation at LHR is also inevitable.

HOVIS
20th Sep 2001, 00:55
The BAr fleet of 737-500s based at MAN are already being reduced from 10 to 6 as of next spring, what chance the whole lot will go?
The Hangar is also being closed.

Its grim up north!!


H

Dr Tre
20th Sep 2001, 01:09
Norfolk - Wake up to life outside of LHR. As my colleagues have correctly stated the regions are not subsidised by London. BAR even pays 'big BA' for SWORD etc. In fact its probably the other way 'round when you consider that BAR is prevented from advertising its services in areas of the country (read Oxfordshire) which would impinge on LHR Loads. Get your facts straight and look a bit closer to home - you obviously have no idea about life in the regions. :(

Tandemrotor
20th Sep 2001, 01:18
My (only very slightly out of date information) was always that BHX made a tidy profit on a number of its routes. However, as ex-City flyer will soon find out, with a cost base dictated by London, those profits are easily swallowed up by the bean counters, in Waterworld.

However, as we are all mainline pilots anyway, it's not going to make a fat lot of difference where the axe falls. Just fewer fun commands in the regions.

Incidentally, with so many options open to BA with regards to volountary redundancy, early retirement, part time working, paid/unpaid stand down, fewer flying managers, and natural wastage. Before we even mention pay cuts. Not much creativity would have to be demonstrated by those with our 'best interests' at heart, to mitigate the impact of these quite horrific attacks.

Mmmmmm, perhaps I said it all. 'Best interests.' Yep, that would have been it!

Human Factor
20th Sep 2001, 03:15
Tandemrotor,

According to a briefing this morning, BHX was still making money (just!!). Should be safe from a large portion of the chop. Any reductions would be covered by people bidding out (allegedly!!).

May still be worth heading oop north!

Hot Wings
20th Sep 2001, 03:48
BA has scheduled a press conference for Thursday 20th. (I don't know the time).

Good luck to all of us at BA. :(

Minesagrolsch
20th Sep 2001, 12:27
Final Three Greens,there is no need to apologise.I was only stating the facts.
JB007,you replied,very eloquently I might add,to my initial posting in this thread that"This is crap".
You may like to read the British Airways press release just issued and then tell me which bits are "crap" !!
BA has announced 7000 job cuts.I must apologise profusely.I exaggerated by 500.Naughty boy!
They are going to retire the 747-200 as stated and withdraw 6 767'2 (not stated) and 4 narrow-bodied aircraft.(Most likely 737 at LHR,as stated).This will amount to about 300 pilots,so I might have exaggerated again.But I think my initial posting was quite near the mark.Your initial posting "This is crap" was exactly that.
You Are The Weakest Link,Goodbye !!

JB007
20th Sep 2001, 13:03
http://www.stopstart.fsnet.co.uk/smilie/rotfl.gif http://www.stopstart.btinternet.co.uk/sm/notworthy.gif

Aerostar6
20th Sep 2001, 13:46
Hmmm. Doesn't sound a very specific plan so far. Classic retirement was a no-brainer. B767s to be 'withdrawn' from shorthaul: to be redeployed on Atlantic? Why not name the other shorthaul aircraft? Sounds like more to come to me.

JustAnother777Driver
20th Sep 2001, 14:34
Ok, 300 pilot jobs to go. That sounds like a number that can be handled by the recruitment/training freeze already announced. Does anybody know how BA is proposing to lose 300 and does this include the unfortunate flight engineers on the classic?