NATS starting pay for non-state ATCOs

[Dan Dare]

I have noticed a number of irregularities with starting pay for non-state ATCOs and would like more information before bargaining with airports personnel.

The starting point seems to vary from bottom of T&D to top of ATCO2 with no apparent consistency. Could anybody shed some light on this?

[cossack]

A few years ago now, the policy seemed to be one spine point for every year you had held an ATCO licence.
Hence, some old has-been who'd been in the back-of-beyond for 10 years with their thumb up their @r$e, previously having stuck two fingers up to NATS/CAA, was welcomed back with open arms near the top of the pay scale they had left all those years before.
No names, no pack drill...but we all know who they are...
This does not imply that those of you who are joining NATS via Southampton and Luton have had your thumbs up your @r$e$!
Best of luck to you.

[This message has been edited by cossack (edited 04 October 2000).]

[Dan Dare]

examples so far:

1. Non-state ATCO taken in at top of ATCO3 scale from sleepy hollow (with relocation)
2. Non-state SATCO taken into the fold at Bottom of ATCO2 scale
3. Non-state ATCO taken in as T&D ATCO

There seems no be no standard, but a lot of irregularities and unfairness. Does anybody know about policy?

[Shazbat]

Policy, Dan Dare ??????? Welcome to NATS !!!!!!! :) :) :)

(Sorry I can't be more helpful, but if NATS management were ever to make a sound decision it would be a first !)

[Schadenfreude]

What is all this bo**ocks about 'state' ATCO's. If someone has the background and can do the job, what shouldn't their pay reflect that when they start working for NATS. Just because you haven't worked for NATS before does not mean that your ATC experience isn't valid. People cross-over between companies in other professions and their pay is determined by their background and ability - not capped because they haven't worked for the company before. You people need to lift your sights out of the NATS silo and occassionally take a look around the real world. Bring on PPP I say, then we'll see some changes.

[Dan Dare]

You get pleasure from others' misfortune. I would prefer to see some justice. If circumstances find someone working for NATS (aka State) then their pay should fairly reflect their experience and qualifications. If they have the ability to do the job they should be paid at that job rate, not insulted with derisory pay offers of less than their unqualified cadets.

If people are being paid too little, it affects all of us as we become too expensive and are replaced. It is already happening!

ATS staff are not being paid well and PPP will not improve matters. If you take pleasure in any ATCOs pay reducing, then you are either very short sighted or not working in aviation.

[MACC 29 all the time!!!!]

Yeah we'll see changes all right lets just hope not of the same magnitude as the RAILTRACK changes shall we Schadenfreude!

[Shazbat]

Schadenfreude....You are a pillock !

[Schadenfreude]

Why does an organisation have to be 'state' controlled for it to be 'safe'. Was BA any safer before it was privatised? Whay should NATS be unsafe when it is in the private sector - if the right safeguards are in place, it will be as safe in the future as it is now. Or is there some regulation, of which I am unaware, that dictates that all private companies need to be run like Railtrack. NATS controllers, particularly at LATCC, have enjoyed a position of advantage over the 'state' organisation for sometime and that will change - one way or another. To state that all ATS staff are 'not being paid well' muddies the water. Some ATS staff are well paid, others less so. Market forces, ability and qualifications should determine pay, as it does in the real world, and probably will for NATS staff in future, so get used to the idea. Shazbat, I can fire off insults as well, but that hardly informs the debate, so I'll pass and converse with adults, allowing you to rejoin the juveniles where you clearly feel more at home! Anyway, when NATS staff are no longer employed by the 'state' how are you going to refer to yourselves? I suppose the only people that can claim to be 'state' ATCOs then will be the military!

[Shazbat]

....and bingo, you've just proved it !! :)

[OrsonCart]

As a general rule, ATC salaries outside NATS reflect the ATCO3 payscale. This salary banding is the benchmark figure used to compare regional airports.

There is recent focus on employing tower rated ATCO's at these non NATS units, thus keeping costs down and defining a minimum number of radar controllers, in fact Bristol have recently advertised for a non radar rated ATCO and specified no further training will be offered or given. Salary around £29k.

Salaries/annual pay increases paid to larger non NATS units at one time were determined nationally when these airports were local authority owned and operated. Now most are outside the stewardship of these authorities pay is dictated by market forces and thus the comparison to ATCO3.

[Schadenfreude]

There you go again Shazbat – predictably jumping to the wrong conclusion! I suspected you would ‘bite’ when I mentioned ‘military’ and immediately conclude that I was still serving in the RAF or some such organisation and therefore, in your eyes 'unworthy'. Fact is I did once serve in the RAF, many moons ago, probably before you were even a twinkle in the local milkman’s eye, but got fed up with droning around the North Atlantic, left and became a civil ATCO. I freely admit to never working for NATS (thankfully), but I’ve probably spent more time on nights than you have on day shift at LATCC or wherever it is you turn up for work occasionally. Nowadays, I work for a contractor that has a fundamental interest in the NATS business and we have some ‘interesting’ ideas about salary levels which, unfortunately, I can’t share with you. Perhaps after a period of ‘due diligence’ I might be more forthcoming – wait and see. Must go, got to prepare some notes for a meeting with a small, bolshie, Scotsman – it’s not you is it?

[identnospeed]

testy

[Shazbat]

No, there YOU go, proving me right again Schadenfreude.

Sad fact is that you are COMPLETELY WRONG......but then again, does that surprise me at all !!!

[RogerOut]

Shiftyfreud is coming out with a series of howlers including :

“You people need to lift your sights out of the NATS silo”

Sights out the silo? What are you on?

“Take a look around the real world "

This is my favourite – this phrase from a consultant!

"NATS controllers, particularly at LATCC, have enjoyed a position of advantage over the 'state' organisation"

I thought we WERE the ‘state’ organisation!

And last in the series for the moment – the spectacular
"I work for a contractor that has a fundamental interest in the NATS business and we have some ‘interesting’ ideas about salary levels"

Shazbat wasn't completely wrong.




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RogerOut
I Keep Mine Hidden

[BuzzLightyear]

Probably just jealous 'cos he wasn't good enough to join after leaving Crab-air http://www.pprune.org/ubb/NonCGI/tongue.gif

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To infinity and beyond

[Steep Approach]

What's the betting that Schadenfreude is a Consultant to NATS on "New Horizons??