Multiple Line up

[Binary]

What are the advantages and disadvantages. Does anyone know of any serious studies done onthis subject?

[callyoushortly]

Don't know about any serious studies, but at a place like EDI, where there's one taxiway, once aircraft are on the way to the holding point there's no other way of changing the departure order unless you're able to do a multiple line-up, so I'd pretty much call it an advantage!!

Disadvantage is that you need bigger spacing on final to be able to get 2 away.

[HEATHROW DIRECTOR]

The obvious answer is that you get the aircraft airborne quicker! If you wait until one rolls before the next one enters you're lucky to achieve the minimum departure separation on a consistent basis. However, if you can line up three at once at various intersections you can really shift some tin! Been there.. done it... eaten the stew... read the book... seen the film and even got the tee-shirt!! (My old mate ATCO2 will probably provide a more scientific reply).

[ATCO Two]

Hi Binary,

I would echo the wise words of my old mate Heathrow Director. Multiple lineups ensure maximum runway utilisation, especially for a segregated mode operation like Heathrow. Pilots should know their position in the sequence, having been given a conditional multiple lineup clearance subject to only one aircraft ahead. (His number in the sequence is useful here). Use of intersections can help, subject to the intersection departure not taking too long to line up after a full length departure, and bearing in the mind the extra one minute separation if a medium or smaller follows a heavy from the full length.

Some qualifying points. Ensure that there can be no confusion about the departure order, by effective marshalling and precise identification of type and company of each aircraft in the sequence. Do not give multiple line ups to too many aircraft - no more than eight would be about right. Do not use in LVPs!! Do not issue line up clearances too early, i.e. before a pilot can see the holding point and the aircraft he is to follow. Ensure that the clearance is feasible, i.e. the subject aircraft can physically taxi into position without impediment.

That's about all I can think of at the moment. In summary, multiple lineups are necessary for expediting traffic. Any other ideas out there?

[MrApproach]

Max runway utilisation is the name of the game. What point in witholding a full length line up because there is an intersection departure ahead? Particularly useful in great Australian VMC when departure tracks can be visually separated and wake turbulence not a factor. Very important that pilots on busy flight decks are kept in the picture, departure order, position of other aircraft, direction of other aircraft turns and so on.

[Binary]

Thanks, interesting info. I haven't seen any specified distances between aircraft. Are there any?

[MrApproach]

Apart from wake turbulence there are no absolute limits appicable in Oz, such as a blanket two minutes, however the Tower controller has to provide sufficient time/distance required for the longitudinal standard being applied between the aircraft. The ideal situation is to separate the departures by track, left, runway centreline, right, and so on but that may not be possible at every airport or in all weather conditions. :eek:

[Gonzo]

I'm slightly confused as to what the discussion here is about.

Are we talking about multiple line ups from the same holding point (ie. BAW873, you're number 5, after the Midland 737, line up and wait 27R), or simultaneous line ups (ie. one a/c lined up at the full length, another lined up at the same time from an intersection further down the runway)?

Gonzo

[HEATHROW DIRECTOR]

Gonzo - several a/c lined up simultaneously along the runway, which can be achieved during the 2 minute interval behind a heavy. Long time since I was at Heathrow Tower but I've had 4 lined up together on 09R - threshold, 102, 79 and a Dash-7 at 83! It's better than Farnborough! I'll bet the boys/gals there now can beat that.

[Gonzo]

I can equal your 4, HD, it was only yesterday! 09R threshold, 102, 79 and 81!

I had 5 pushed at the same time in the Charlies today as well, now I'm just looking for something where 6 a/c can do something at the same time!!!!

Gonzo

[chiglet]

I remember once at EGCC/MAN we had 10 lined up together, but it WAS the Red Arrows :D
Seriously, Multiple links, multiple lineups
EG, BAW123 line up J, you are no3...BRY14G line up at JA, you are no2, MNX330 line up at G, you are no1. No probs, unless its dark
we aim to please, it keeps the cleaners happy

[Gonad]

Gonzo, If your looking for 6 a/c doing the same thing, I heard on the grape vine that EGLL's fav watch actualy had 6 a/c pushed back the other cycle.
May have been a rumour though.

[Push Approved]

Gonad, 6 pushed in the same apron, or 6 on the airfield?

Now let me 'C'.......!? :p

[Gonzo]

Now now........... :D

Gonzo

[Pika]

Way back, when I was working at a regional airport in northern Germany, I once had seven light typs lined up on one runway. All were VFR and took part in a scenic flight activity. All crews were prebriefed about the routing and all the pilots knew each other well. We had alltogether 25 aircraft doing these flights which lasted about 10 minutes each. Inbetween we had to work in the normal traffic. It went on all day and it was fun.

Greets from Germany

Smile

[Twiglet]

At manchester we blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah..... repeat till fade!!! ;)