MEP Class Rating, is it worth it?

[Snigs]

I mean…… what’s the point?

The only reason for me to keep re-validating my MEP rating is to keep my IR current. So how often do I fly a twin? Once a year! I say again, what’s the point? Until I’m in a situation where people pay me to fly a multi-engined a/c then it’s just like throwing the best part of a grand in the bin every year.

It’s catch-22 isn’t it? I need more twin hours to be attractive to employers, but I find that it’s really difficult to find people willing to hire me a twin because I have fewer than 50 hours P1 (because of the insurance implications)

How do I get out of this vicious cycle? Is there anyone out there who’ll let me fly their twin? Come on PPRuNers, inspire me!

[Flyin'Dutch']

Unless you have a twin, deep pockets or can fly one whilst being paid for it the answer is no, no point.

The solution lies in acquiring either of these commodities.

FD

[rustle]

I know of two clubs where hiring a twin is relatively easy, one in Bournemouth and one with branches in several locations around the M25 and other motorways ;)

You surpass the minimum requirements of both these clubs (valid IMC rating with your MEP rating) for twin hire, so there's no excuse...

[Chilli Monster]

Funnily enough I now find myself in the opposite position - SEP; is it worth it?

Sold a share in an SEP because it was too far away, bought another but found I wasn't using it so sold that too. Have just turned down an option to fly another because personal circumstances mean it would be pointless. End result is I'm going to let it lapse as I can't see me using it in the near future - one of the hardest decisions in flying I think I've ever made. I'm probably doing 120 hours a year twin but luckily I almost fall into one of 'FDs categories (almost because I don't actually get paid!).

Funny old game isn't it :confused:

[englishal]

........which is why I have an FAA ME rating (and not bothered with JAR), and go and fly the pants off a twin several times a year for $170 per hour, wet....which incidentally is what you'd pay for a Warrior......just to put it in perspective ;)

[G-KEST]

Quite simply NO unless you have squillions of dosh since it is almost impossibly expensive to keep up these days with the JAR-FCL revalidation requirements. In addition a twin can kill you twice as fast as a single if mishandled.
I speak with over 2,000 hours on light piston twins and having been a FI, FE and FIE on them for over 30 years. So there....!!!
Cheers,
Trapper 69
:(

[formationfoto]

I have to disagree with Barry (KEST) - for now at least Maintaining a twin rayting is expensive, time consuming, and pointless but i could probably argue that about my SEP and Rotary licences.

I am fortunate enough to have access to an almost sensibly priced twin (£220 / hr - Aztec) and an owner who needs someone to sit with him when he flies so I am able to keep current. My last renewl (aircraft / landing / and Examiner) cost me clsoe to £700 - all so that I could fly the following weekend to PFA Kemble with loads of photo kit and some of the mag team.

Couldn't have done that in the Chipmunk or Jodel! (thouhg could probably have hired a luxury limo for much less).

So for me there are times (few) when the twin has value but the real point is that having attained a rating and skill I want to hold on to it until I feel it is unsafe or uneconomical.

The 'unsafe' bit is largely controlled by the annual renewal test which is more onerous than the hour of instructor time every two years for the SEP.

The uneconomical bit depends on whether I want to eat as well!

OK maybe Barry is right after all but I am determined to keep at it (and the other activities) until I become bored or broke.

For info the twin is based in Norfolk and the owner is 76 and just going for his FAA multi!

[skydriller]

Snigs,

What you need is one of these......



http://www.dynaero.com/img/cricri.jpg


Saw one of these at a local Fly-in, Aerobatic too:E :E

Regards, SD..

[S-Works]

I love flying the twins and would not consider letting my MEP lapse. I have access to a twin at £175hr wet and fly it around 100hrs a year on top of my SEP flying. It is great for touring and when I cross big chunks of sea like direct out to Holland etc it is comforting to have 2 engines.

They do need you to keep current as they will lead an inexperianced pilot into trouble very quickly.

There is no problem in letting the rating lapse, as it has to be revalidated by test every year anyway, when you want to use it again justgo and do the test. If you can't afford to fly one then let the rating lapse.

[Keygrip]

formationphoto ......
The 'unsafe' bit is largely controlled by the annual renewal test which is more onerous than the hour of instructor time every two years for the SEP.
If you do an MEP revalidation or renewal test during the second year of your SEP 24 month validity, you don't need the one hour with an instructor for SEP revalidation.

[formationfoto]

Keygrip
Thanks for that. I was making the point that those of us with 'twin ratings' are subject to a higher on going skill assesment regime than those with SEP tickets.

Interesting though I would agree with you regarding the MEP revaildation being suitable for the 24 month SEP check ride but have recently been caught by that assumption and being told I was wrong. Worse I ended up in a positione because of this where I was only valid on twins for a while and then had to do a full retest including nav in a single despite having done a nav sector for my MEP renewal. Was assured by the CFI that this was required and that I couldn't just get a sign off despite only a few weeks earlier having done well over an hour for the MEP renewal.

Still trying to work the logic of that.

[S-Works]

Check ourt LASORS (bookworm where are you when we need you!).

It is perfectly acceptable to renew an SEP rating on the back of an MEP renewal. I have done it this way on the last 2 renewals.


LASORS states that the flight with an instructor can be replaced with ANY class or type rating flight test.

[bookworm]

The MEP proficiency check can be used to replace the training flight for the SEP revalidation by experience. But bear in mind that once the SEP has actually expired, the only way to revalidate it is by test.

[G-KEST]

Good luck to all of you that already hold the ME rating and can afford the high cost of upkeep. Frankly as a retired OAP I could not but in any case my present NPPL(SEP) does not allow me to fly ME aeroplanes anyway though I do pole one from the RHS from time to time thanks to a generous private owner.

Having trained pilots to ME ratings on the CriCri I can say that this is one of the most temperamental twins I have ever come across and possibly the most fun, apart from the Dassault MD312/315 Flamant and B25 Mitchell, of any that I have flown. It is always a real focal point of interest when ever you land.

Mind you, my 200 odd hours in De Havilland twins, biplane and monoplane, were magic.

Cheers,

Trapper 69
;)

[Keygrip]

Interesting questions sprung to mind after reading
Was assured by the CFI that this was required
Has anybody ever entered a Regulation 6 (test misconduct) complaint on an examiner having PASSED the test?

I hope you didn't have to pay any examination fees. Nor, if you had the relevant 12 hours, any aircraft rental fee.

If you had the experience requirements, then you were entitled to a revalidation by renewal and there is no charge allowable for that.

[distaff_beancounter]

MEP annual test covering SEP renewal?

This subject has been discussed several times on this forum, & those who should know, have confirmed that the MEP annual test definitely DOES count as the one hour instructional for the SEP renewal.

Perhaps the examiners I have been to, DO know the regulations. At each MEP test, they have asked if my SEP is due and, if it is then they have signed it off, at no extra charge.

I would think that formationfoto would have a good claim for a refund of his extra costs, if he has been misinformed by an examiner.

PS
As my next MEP test is due at about the same time as my IMC renewal, I have been reminded that these 2 tests can also be combined.
That is, so long as I am sufficiently current on instruments to manage an assymetric intrument approach with the screens up, without having total brain failure half through it! :(

[foghorn]

I wonder when we'll finally see DA42s for hire, and what sort of hourly rate we should expect. Should make twin flying a lot more afforable.

On the main topic, Snigs, I know exactly where you're coming from. My MEP and MEIR lapse at the end of the month and I'm seriously considering renewing the IR on a single to save money (because I use it fairly regularly on singles), with the option of rapidly renewing the MEP/MEIR should I need it.

The other option is renewal of just the MEIR on a sim.

[Timothy]

I have missed this SEP/MEP thing.

I own an MEP and only very occasionally want to fly an SEP, so have let it lapse for some years. (Incidentally, Barry T is wrong, you cannot say I am rich because I have a twin, you must say that I am poor because I have a twin :p )

Am I now to understand that if I go up in a club SEP with an instructor and get signed off as a proficient SEP driver, I can then get an SEP signature on my licence every year when I do my combined MEP/IR, even if I don't fly an SEP?

[bookworm]

Am I now to understand that if I go up in a club SEP with an instructor and get signed off as a proficient SEP driver, I can then get an SEP signature on my licence every year when I do my combined MEP/IR, even if I don't fly an SEP?

No. Your choices, to get a 2-year SEP sign off, are:

1) Pass a proficiency check with an examiner on an SEP, just as you do for the MEP (but without the IR part)

2) Fly 12 hours in SEPs (with the requisite number of t/os and ldgs, I forget: 6 or 12?) in the year before you want the SEP signature.

Method 2 only works if you keep the SEP rating current. But whereas a bare PPL also has to do an hour with an instructor to satisfy method 2, that's waived for you because you did a skills test for another class. If you keep the SEP rating current, you never have to fly with an examiner/instructor in an SEP.

[Timothy]

I thought it couldn't be that easy!

Oh, well, No SEP flying for me then!

[distaff_beancounter]

bookworm
2) Fly 12 hours in SEPs (with the requisite number of t/os and ldgs, I forget: 6 or 12?) in the year before you want the SEP signature. I am not sure about the number of T/Os but, of the 12 hours in year two, at least 6 hours must be P1

The experience qualification for the MEP is "10 sectors" per year. BUT, if you have not done the 10 sectors, then you just have to ask the examiner to assess you on ONE sector as part of the annual MEP test.

I understand that the minimum for "a sector" is defined as "leave the circuit - ten minutes cruise - rejoin the circuit". I have done MEP tests from Elstree and from Cranfield. For both these airfields, the local training areas, where we do the upper air bits of the tests, are more than 10 minutes from the field. i.e. you have to fly "a sector" in order to do the test!

So, I to not understand the JAA/CAA logic in the different "experience" required for SEP & MEP. :confused:

[formationfoto]

Distaff

My reading was the same as yours. As always the specifics of the case are where the problems lie. I am aware of another (similar) case where the individual got his SEP signed up during a MEP test but then forgot to ask for it to be signed off. He had done the one hour required with instructor within the required time period for the SEP but did not get it signed off. Before the SEP expired he asked for a sign off based on the earlier (multi) flight and was told he couldn't have it. The SEP rating then expired and he had to do a full retest (only a couple of weeks after having done the MEP test).

I think the sign off should have been done. I am not aware of a time limite for the sign off to be completed after the flight with instructor.

[distaff_beancounter]

formationfoto
Sorry I can't help you on the timing question. I held SEP+MEP pre JAR, therefore they expire on the same day, so I get them signed off together.

[formationfoto]

Distaff

Mine were both pre JAR so concident until this slight difference in view over the procedure. Now I have them on different dates just one more thing to forget (I know I can get the sign off early which si what I will now do).

Thanks