NATS cutbacks begin

[Fanny Adams]

The party is over boys. Senior management at all units got an order to cut back on T & RE this week. The Airline Group expect £10,000,000 in savings for the rest of this financial year. Each unit has been ordered to cut back in proportion to its size.So far I've heard of the following;

Scatcc have cancelled all Fam Flights TFN

A manager due to go to another unit for a meeting has been told his night stop has been cancelled and must travel on a flight at 7 am and dash to make his meeting

Manager Area at Manchester arrived here at Latcc by car yesterday when usually travels by air.


If this is the start of the big cull I can see us all being shafted somewhere along the line. I just hope the guys up north tell the bosses where to go if they expect them down at Nerc and Bournemouth and have to argue the toss over travel and expenses. Just wait till its relocation time from Latcc to Nerc. Fun and games ahead I think.....over to you boys

[Bright-Ling]

Wonderful.

(This'll take the jam out of Bexil160's doughnut!!!!)

Seriously: Other bigger companies now insist that their staff fly easyJet et al to save money so why shouldn't the new management insist on a similar policy.

Fanny Adams - see The lastest thread by BEXIL160. It might help us if we give TAG a a chance.

[Take up the Hold]

Didn't know it was just T&RE. The rumour at ScOACC is that it was from the whole ACS budget. The closest airport to ScOACC is Prestwick. I can't see TAG allowing the staff to fly with Ryanair from there, even if they are the cheapest. It will be giving money to the opposition. Seriously though, how much can they save without staff cuts?

[Justin A Beaver]

Come on is anyone actually surprised by this pruning? Every one of us must see needless wastage every day. A few cushy numbers may be up! Who cares as long as terms, conditions and staffing do not suffer the privatised axe man!

[Gisajob]

Welcome to real world NATS. It has been a long time coming.

[BEXIL160]

Gisajob...NATS operational staff have been in the "real world" for some time, it's the management that have had problem with reality.

It seems that those same managers are about to find out that reality bites! At least I HOPE that is what is about to happen.

We have all seen wastage on a grand scale in NATS, and usually nothing to do with the Core activity, i.e. ATC. Targeting the people that actually need good T&RE (the staff) might be a good idea. Lets face it, if TAG told you that Cheese and Ham's nice shiny company car had been replaced by an ex EGLL airside Ford Escort Van, wouldn't it raise a smile and improve your morale, just a bit?

I don't think the staff are the target, at least I hope they (we) aren't. TAG, for their own businesses sake, need the operational staff's goodwill. There's enough pent up frustration for us to be pushed much further without some sort of reaction. I believe that TAG understand this. The recent "management" have shown that they do not.

Rgds BEX

P.S. No jam in my doughnuts... just sugar on the top
;) ;)

[Scott Voigt]

Wow;

This sounds a bit like what Canada started out like... I really hope that y'all do fare better. Just makes me want to work that much harder against going private. Of course, I am one of the lucky ones. I get to punch out in five years if I have to.

[UmmphUmmph]

Cutbacks in T&RE? Hang on, aren't you now owned by The AIRLINE group??? Maybe they could assist by not charging THEIR employees £300+ for a "day return" from Scotland to London for a 2 hour meeting :eek: :eek:

Then there is the extravagant waste of money moving ATCO's from one understaffed unit to another, purely for idealogical reasons....think of the time taken to retrain/revalidate and the fact that said ATCO's are still earning their normal pay!

For that matter, as a "technical" industry, why ARE there so many Management meetings in London and elsewhere? Whats wrong with teleconferencing? Welcome to the 21st Century! Oh, sorry, that would mean no more Air Miles, Executive Gold cards or Business Lounges :D :D :D

Rant over, back to sleep

[ZIP250]

Ummpph,

Could you elucidate a little about your claim that staff have been moved "from one understaffed unit to another one for purely idealogical reasons"?

Thanks
Z :eek:

[Mr Chips]

I have to say, changes like this - however unpopular - are long overdue. Yes, if I am in Bournemouth I want to stay somewhere nice, but in the old days of "cash" T&S we were happy to stay in a B&B and make a bit. persoanlly, i think that it is a little bit of lack of control - mileage claims when there are pool cars etc. It has also been suggested that our corporate rates at many of the Bournemouth hotels are not as generous as they could be....

As for travelling to meetings, I went to a meeting at ScACC ttended by far more LATCC staff than ScACC staff - you do the maths.

[Data Dad]

ZIP250 - I will hazard a guess at what Ummph is on about... ATCO 2's at ATCO 3 units? A subject close to my heart at the moment :D


Mr Chips, I too remember the days of £40 a night, sort yourself out! Nice cosy B&B rather than overpriced, sterile hotels. (And occasionally a pound or two left over

:eek: :eek: - can't have that!)

[Flybywyre]

Hello Chips...........
Funny that you should mention corporate rates at Bournemouth hotels not being as generous as they could be.
The "Norfolk" had an advert in the Daily Mail the other day offering Bed, breakfast and evening meal for £57....in peak season!
NATS are charged £60 for B&B, no evening meal, during the winter :eek: !
Me thinks you should have a word with the tall one down stairs.
Regards
FBW

[VectorLine]

ummphummph

No we are not 'owned' by the airline group. Have you heard? Its PPP - Public Private Partnership.

Onwership shared among government, airline group and, to a very tiny extent, the staff.

[ZIP250]

Thanks Data Dad. Maybe I've spent too long at West Drayton!!

Z :)

[Big Nose1]

If this is true then there are T&RE savings to be made, but to have Fam flights made more difficult is appalling. TAG take over and Pilot-ATCO dialogue becomes more difficult...how will that help!
We are in a unique situation to greatly enhance the understanding between us ( and save much money in the process) and TAG bean counters shoot themselves in the foot. Lets hope this is just rumour and not fact, otherwise the future is even bleaker than I feared.

[Justin A Beaver]

I am confused, why does a fam flight cost NATS money?

[2 six 4]

T & RE

[Bright-Ling]

Costs involve airport parking, overnight hotel occasionally.

Given that the number who go on fam flights is fairly minimal, this must be quite negligable.

[Spoonbill]

Earlier this year I was on a course with some NATS operational atcos, I could only claim for actual expenses incurred, whilst they were busy worrying about spending the total of one allowance and offsetting it against another allowance, whilst combining the resultant figure with the square root of the accomodation allowance.
Believe me guys, it's a lot easier when you can only claim for what you spend.
OK, you are under defined limitations and you don't make any money, (my employers have fairly logical expectations of the costs incurred, and even allow for ale :D), but you come out of it clean, and you don't have to constantly worry about exceeding allowances.
That said, I'm sure that TAG are more concerned about waste at management level, rather than operational.
Perhaps if they imposed the mandatory use of budget airlines, and the use new technology to communicate with one another, the management may think twice about the real need to spend nights away and travel vast distances for "get - togethers".
JustinFam' flights still incur expenses for the individual, and perhaps a nominal sum for the issue of an air ticket, although why anyone would want to stop such invaluable liason is totally beyond me. :confused:
Bexhill Sorry mate, the sugar budget was the first to get the chop, although I do know a good source of rasberry jam if you're interested :D

[Take up the Hold]

Bringing this topic back to the top of the board.
Rumour from work today is that the saving NATS have to make from next years budget is £50MILLION. How many cuts will it take to save that amount?

[1261]

TAG have stated that they are not looking for operational cuts.

We employ something like 5,000 people; out of that less than half work in any operational capacity. The company is administered like a civil service department from the '50s. I think that this is where our new managers will be looking for most of their cost savings - and about time too. I for one am not in the slightest worried about my terms and conditions being eroded.

And let's be honest, some of the T&RE system has far too much fat in it as we all know (but some are not prepared to admit).

Our contracts are far more likely to remain intact if we all work in some small way to achieving TAG's cost targets.

[Great Unmanaged]

Rumours akimbo! Its ten mill from the ACS budget. ScACC ops staff have just made their last visit to LATCC for the financial year. No more Mercedes C class hire cars for u lot then!

Take close look at how many "managers" have been created recently. MSG 1/2/3. How long will that last?

Viva el revolution! :D :D :D

[HarryBucket]

I agree with "1261" feelings that it will be the "backroom staff" and not the operational staff that will be hit hardest. I do believe though that a restructuring of the management at unit level will occur. At my unit we have 5 deputy watch managers, 5 watch managers (out of 30 operational controllers) a training manager and a general manager. This means that out of our operational capacity, just over a third are "managers". Will we see this changed to 1 watchmanager working mon-fri 9-5 and supported by 5 deputies who are on watch. This could also lead to the disapearance of a GM at all units, with the introduction of Area (not in the ATC sense)Managers responsible for 2 or 3 units. This would lead to abolishment of maybe 6 "managment" posts at the small units eg. Brum, Glasgow, Edin. Could this be the type of retructuring that we see?

The sooner TAG get a grip on the unneccesary spending on flights, hotels etc for meetings the sooner we may see old technology updtaed as this will hopefully release spare funds. We have to learn that in terms to "expenses" ATCO's are on a gravy train. My father works for a one of the largest international engineering firms and he has to attend meetings by flying Easyjet, so why should it be any different for NATS? For the sake of flying I hour to London, do we really need business class seats or will Go suffice?

[Justin A Beaver]

Or at the Luton Based unit: -
1 Manager ATS
1 Ops/trg manager
16 2/3rd operational ATCO's who are SCOD's (Senior controller on duty) outside roughly Monday-Friday 9-5.

That is how to save money, mirrored on London City, but does it work? They still move 7 million + passengers.