View Full Version : ryanair,more FREE publicity (Merged)

25th Aug 2004, 22:38
Our patience is with the site, our impatience is with others. It is a great shame that you have been subjected to what we have to endure.

Red Snake
25th Aug 2004, 22:51
If ever there was a doubt as to the power of PPRuNe, this has surely dispelled it.

Good Luck & Good Job.

Flying Mech
25th Aug 2004, 23:19
Sparksfly-What on earth are you talking about? As far as I can see you have just started a thread about absolutely nothing.:rolleyes:

26th Aug 2004, 07:07
This is a summary of an article titled “Ryanair pilot had heart attack on flight” as published in the Irish Times (26/08/04, page 8).

Refers to a co-pilot on his first flight with Ryanair (but having previous experience as a captain) who made an emergency landing at Charleroi airport “after the captain became unconscious just after take off”.

“Shortly before departure the captain, who suffered a heart attack, had been seen having animated conversations about his terms and conditions of employment …”.

A discussion of medical issues then follows. The role of a doctor on board is also discussed.

How the events unfolded in the cockpit is reviewed. It appeared as though the pilot was dead, but in the event efforts to resuscitate him were successful. He was “removed to hospital in a critical condition”.

Reference is made to witnesses who stated that he was in good form. This is followed by a quotation from the report referring to telephone call made by the captain before flight “… outlining some difficulties that he had concerning his terms and conditions of employment…”

This is followed by a discussion of the pilot’s medical history.

There is then a reference to “an error between Ryanair’s training and in-flight services departments” regarding the senior cabin crew member’s file. [ The relevance of this only becomes clear by reading the AAIU report (see below), but it is clear that an administrative error occurred and that the said cabin crew member did not fully meet the requirements of his or her position. ]

The article concludes by observing that the “actions of the first officer, the cabin crew, the emergency services, air traffic control and the doctors on board … probably saved the captain’s life.”

“In a statement” Ryanair accepted the reports conclusions. The airline has “already implemented its recommendations.”

Note 1. As the Irish Times is a subscription site, no link is provided

Note 2. Event: Charleroi, 16/07/02. Report published 23/08/04 – to download the report (pdf file is 954kb): http://www.aaiu.ie/upload/general/5782-0.pdf

26th Aug 2004, 08:39
extract from Irelands' "sunday buisness post".

"no sick bags" word for word.

Flight attendants sitting on the loo on overbooked flights,cushions taken off seats to make more room,and baggage handlers photographing themselves throwing passengers luggage around - the bets are off when it comes to ryanairs relationship with its customers.
and now,unwell passengers have been forced to dash to the toilet as the airline could not supply sick bags.one last post agent who became unwell on a ryanair flight to paris beauvais in recent weeks found a request for help fell on deaf ears.no sick bags,breath fresheners or blankets were carried on board,she was told.perhaps the weight of a handful of paper bags and a lemon wedge impairs fuel efficiency or takes up vital luggage space?everyone knows the airlines is low fares,but there is no need to be cheap too.

(last post is the column grouping in which this article appeared)

mick it must be great to be respected among your peers in the buisness community!

mr Q
26th Aug 2004, 09:25
Herewith irish times article & link to the Report

Ryanair pilot had heart attack on flight
Chris Dooley

A Ryanair pilot on his first flight with the airline made an emergency landing at Charleroi Airport in Belgium after the captain became unconscious just after take off.

Shortly before departure the captain, who suffered a heart attack, had been seen having animated conversations about his terms and conditions of employment, according to an official report published yesterday.

The captain suffered from high blood pressure and, because of this, was allowed to fly only as a co-pilot for a period in the past.

This restriction was lifted, however, in August 2000 and he had been taking medication to control the problem, the report said.

Although a doctor on board the aircraft thought the captain was dead, he survived the incident. He remains seriously ill, however, in a nursing home near his residence, which is in Ireland.

The dramatic circumstances surrounding the flight, which took off from Charleroi on September 13th, 2002, are outlined in the report of the Department of Transport's air accident investigation unit (AAIU).

The plane, a Boeing 737 which was scheduled to fly to Stansted Airport in Britain, had 137 passengers and six crew on board.

Before take-off, a problem arose when the first officer rostered for the flight became delayed in traffic. Another first officer was asked to change duties and act as co-pilot on the Charleroi-Stansted flight.

It was this pilot's first Ryanair flight following his training, but he had been a Boeing 737 captain with a previous employer.

The aircraft took off at 2.27 p.m. and as it approached approximately 8,000 feet, the first officer looked across and noticed that the captain's head was to one side and he looked "completely white", the report said.

He tried to speak to the captain but got no response.

The first officer then took control of the aircraft, advised Brussels air traffic control of the situation and requested permission to turn back to Charleroi.

As he prepared to make an emergency landing, he called the senior cabin crew member to the cockpit. This crew member sent for an oxygen bottle and tried to gain the captain's attention, but to no avail.After the plane landed, the cabin crew member asked if there was a doctor on board, and a husband and wife team went to the cockpit.

"The \ doctor opinioned that the captain was dead but that he should be removed from his seat and stretched out on the aircraft floor," the report said.

Attempts to resuscitate the pilot proved successful after some time and he was removed to hospital in a critical condition.

Witnesses told how prior to the flight the captain had chatted with cabin crew and appeared to be in good form.

"The investigation has established that the captain telephoned a colleague in operations outlining some difficulties that he had concerning his terms and conditions of employment with the company," the report said.

"He also spoke to his wife about these matters.

"Both the operations officer and the captain's wife confirmed to the investigation that he had taken these matters routinely and that he was not angry or frustrated before the flight, merely disappointed and somewhat annoyed."

The report said the medical aspects of the case were notable in that the captain, who had a valid medical certificate, had been on medication for blood pressure for a period of years.

For about a year, between 1999 and 2000, he had had an endorsement on his licence because of his condition, allowing him to act "as or with a co-pilot" only. The endorsement was rescinded in August 2000.

Examination of the senior cabin crew member's file indicated that there had been an error between Ryanair's training and in-flight services departments.

The report recommended that Ryanair review the co-ordination between its training and in-flight departments to ensure rostered personnel were properly trained for their specific duties.

It also found, however, that the actions of the first officer, the cabin crew, the emergency services, air traffic control and the doctors on board had probably saved the captain's life.

In a statement, Ryanair said it fully agreed with the report's conclusions and had already implemented its recommendations.
The full report can be accessed at this URL

Dr Illitout
26th Aug 2004, 16:39
Are there seat back pockets on Ryanair?. The Pax will just throw up in there if there is!!

26th Aug 2004, 17:10
seatpockets removed.

I mentioned this as soon as it was announced - only a idiot would remove sick bags from the proximity of the pax.
Its gonna take longer to clean their planes if they do hurl too.

People normally get sick on approach when they are all strapped in and normally dont tell anyone till the last second too.

27th Aug 2004, 00:48
Last time I flew on Ryanair was a couple of months ago, DUB-LPL

Rather than simple sickbags, they provided combination sigkbags/photo development envelopes (sponsored, one-hour photo type things). Seriously! I presume they were to be used for one or the other, not both :yuk:

27th Aug 2004, 06:38
I hope that the captain who suffered the heart attack makes a speedy recovery.

Incidentally, it may be of interst to note that it was thought that the primary cause of Capt Key's incapacitation during the Staines Trident 'Papa India' accident stemmed from stress induced by serious arguments with colleagues over industrial relations in the company immediately prior to flight.

An unhappy and demoralised work force is more likely to have a serious in flight incident than one a work force which enjoys harmonious relations with the company. It seems that some people can't understand this....

27th Aug 2004, 08:47
As it happens the pilot in question suffered full cardiac arrest, as I understand it there was a delay before cpr could commence. I believe this may have implications in terms of a recovery. The pilot is still in a nursing home almost two years after the incident (13th sept 2002).

27th Aug 2004, 15:10
Remember that...

is he still in the nursing home? Hope he recovers and gets his class 1 back.

Hope also that this incident will be isolated, and that people keep their head whilst all this is going on.

Must never lose sight of the big picture through all of this.

27th Aug 2004, 15:56
chickens from what i hear,the said captain is in a catatonic state and getting his medical back is the least of his worries.my heart goes out to his young wife and child.
maybe there is a detrimental effect to long term flying.i noticed from the report that he had over 15,000 hours.i wonder if 900 hours a year flying is damaging pilots' health.

Brookmans Park
27th Aug 2004, 16:31
With respect to the more serious side of this thread, namely the health of the captain concerned,i offer my deepest sympathy to him and his family

I would like to comment on the other and apparently more trivial side ,namely the lack of sick bags, I understand that toilet paper is also in short supply in Dublin.
I am told that notices have been posted in "Corporate HQ" demanding a reduction in the quanity used, is this true?

Personally I feel that the paper used in the recent anti BALPA and "We apologise for Dublin Airport" rantings, as well as most of the recent FCI'S could have been utilised DIRECTLY in the appropriate place in CHQ

Firstly it is time that the original topic was cleared it had become far too long

Secondly I would have thought that this disclaimer regarding the nature of the post and printed in RED at the foot of the page
would have been sufficient to prevent any form of legal action but I am not a lawyer.

27th Aug 2004, 16:35
I've been meaning to ask for a couple of months now, heard on CNN Business news about two months ago that Ryanair CEO MOL announced plans to ditch checked baggage as a cost saving measure. Has anyone heard anything about this ? It is far too late in the year to be an April fool... What the hell are you supposed to do mail your luggage ahead ?

Just found this from February, it may have been misreported, in the Summer, have I got the wrong end of the stick here or are passengers an inconvenience to MOL ? Perhaps he'd prefer it if they just bought a ticket and didn't show up at all ?

Ryanair passengers will soon find fewer frills when they get on board.

LONDON, England -- Ryanair, famous for its discount fares and no-frills service, is about to get even leaner.

The Dublin-based airline is taking the knife to a number of "non-essentials" -- such as reclining seats, head rests, seat pockets and window blinds -- in an effort to cut costs.

Ryanair is calling for the alterations to made to a new fleet of aircraft being order from Boeing.

It hopes the changes will speed airplane turnaround times and save more than £1 million ($1.9m) a year as it competes for passengers in the competitive discount market.

Ryanair is one of several European budget airlines that has cashed in on the public's desire for cheap air travel by reducing fares and doing away with such extras as meals on board and assigned seats.

At the same time, Ryanair wants to encourage passengers to carry only hand luggage in a bid to cut baggage-handling costs.

The new cutbacks were reported in The Sunday Times in London. A Ryanair spokesman confirmed the details of the story, but could not specify when the changes would come into effect.

"Most of the space in airports is devoted to baggage handling," he said. "It would mean smaller airports, simpler facilities and lower charges. It could deliver savings of up to 20 percent for the airline."

The changes comes as Ryanair faces new challenges to its dominant position in the discount airline market.

Earlier this month, Ryanair was told by the European Commission to repay about 4 million euros ($5 million) to Belgian authorities for subsidies it received for using the state-owned Charleroi airport south of Brussels. (Full story)

In January, the airline issued its first profit warning since it became a publicly traded company in 1997.

"Think about it. People are happy to carry a bag on to buses so why not on to airlines? This could be revolutionary," Ryanair chief executive Michael O'Leary told the newspaper.

Do you really need anymore evidence that this man is insane ?

28th Aug 2004, 13:35
I dont know how the no-show rates are with other airlines, but with FR we can quite often in the low season have 189 booked, but only 166 show up.

Thats 23 fares received by the copmany, INCLUDING THE AIRPORT TAXES, which dont have to be paid for by the company in fuel charges and passenger handling charges (AIRPORT TAX!!)

It all comes down to these 'massive seat sales' - people are compelled to buy really quickly, book about 3 flights for 3 consecutive days incase they cant make it, and be under the impression that doing so they arent losing that much money...and in many cases the total fare for all three flights combined may well be below that of a single flight with a full service carrier.

so its obvious they wont show up - unfortunately, RYR wont give the airport tax back tot he cancelled customer, even though it is legally his tendure once again, as the airport wont claim it from ryanair.

that may be a loss of 30 GBP for that person, but multiply 30 by the 23 empty seats in the last example, and we get GBP 690 instant, non-taxed profit on no-shows alone for a single flight...and this isnt factoring in the apparent fuel savings and MTOW savings yet either...

smart, that I grant them.

but it just shows that yes, they would be jumping for joy if 189 booked, and only 1 turned up.

ofcourse, bad word of mouth will dampen booking rates.

Serge, thanks for the info...My heart also goes out to his family. I didn't realise his condition was still this serious.

900 hours a year may very well be damaging...I think some universities are starting studies on cosmic radiation and it's affect on long term exposure of crew.

28th Aug 2004, 17:50
hot of the press from dub.the word from on high is that top brass fully expect union recognition at stn and are now gearing up for the aftermath.although they won't be too upset if union recognition falls through.so let's see what the famous union have up their sleeve and where the leadership is going to come from.
i know what i want,do you?be realistic but aim high.like trading with the knackers(literally0,always ask for a higher price.

mention no names!!!

stormin norman
29th Aug 2004, 09:12
It is well known that a number of of incidents can be related to
bad feeling umongst the rank and file ,staines trident crash in 1972 is one example.It is also a known fact that having an excessive amount of carried forward defects can also add to the pressure. Does anyone know the average is, at the well known dublin based company?

29th Aug 2004, 17:27
So hes lining up the pawns for his grand move...

the more they push, the more we react...and hes using that reaction.

That tough spot were in just got a whole lot tighter. How is he planning this aftermath then? Does he expect people to fall without reaction, or he is readying a complete workforce flush?

again, this is all rumour, but still!

29th Aug 2004, 18:44
I was not aware of the 2002 Charleroi accident [...]

Edited 31/08 - I regret having posted the message above.

29th Aug 2004, 22:43
Do the Irish company carry defibrillators now? Most airlines do.

30th Aug 2004, 23:07
well..according to ray...they have a plan ready if balpa get

31st Aug 2004, 02:57
I have been following this thread with interest, but, I have to say that I think it is very wrong to start speculating on how this poor chap's outcome might have been affected if the circumstances and actions taken at the time of the incident were different.

2nd Sep 2004, 22:16
hard and long battle ahead...

but if we can pull through this first voting part together, there are no limits to our solidarity...