Spectacular landing shot of Dash 8

[Wirraway]

Spectacular landing shot of a Qantaslink DHC-8-Q300 landing in BNE
by Will Mallinson 2 weeks ago:

http://www.planepictures.net/netshow.php?id=247998

[Capt. J]

That's a really nice photo. Can't take those shots all the time! Was it a landing with crosswind or another problem?

[PLovett]

Capt.J

Have a look at the flag on the silo in the background. Suggest that there was a fairly strong cross-wind on the day. :ok:

[Soulman]

Thought I'd throw in a takeoff for good measure.

Dash 8 Takeoff at Sydney (http://www.airliners.net/open.file/644523/M)

Surprised that we haven't seen both of these shots in the newspaper - right beside the stories titled 'The flight from hell' or'Passengers fear for lives', full of comments like 'I thought I was going to die' and 'I looked out and the wing had fallen off' and 'The engines just stopped'.

You know what the media are like! :}

Soulman.

[Romeo Tango Alpha]

I was THERE the day he took that! I was standing on the bonnet of my car doing the same! I'll dig mine out if I can find them!

A Qantas A330 came in as well, and performed the most sordidly horrible landing I have EVER witnessed as a spectator. At least between 5 and 10 degrees oscillation in pitch, and quite some in yaw as well. No one else seemed to have even the remotest difficulty, including several DJ 737's, and 4 QanDom 737's.

I don't often take photos at YBBN, but I had been meaning to take some shots of the Shorts Belfast, 727-100, and AN-12 for some time.

[m-dot]

Arrrrrgh!!

Reminds me of my last Sim check

[Capn Bloggs]

Yeh, give 'em jets: they'll be able to handle them...NOT!

PS: what's the diff between a Q 300 and a normal 300??!!

[Chimbu chuckles]

Umm who's to say, Capt Bloggs, that the first picture is not a perfectly flown crosswind landing in what was obviously a very stiff crosswind?

Look at the flag top left!

Who's to say the second picture is anything other than an example of going around too soon when a normal landing could have been made from a very late landing clearance...they do happen you know!!

[ennui]

Capn Bloggs,

Not sure about the "Q".
Think it signifies Quiet - as in active noise suppression. Microphones and speakers placed around the cabin. An anti sine wave is generated to reduce noise. Flown a -200 with it. Was pretty effective according to those in the back.

[bombshell]

I'm not familiar with the span of the Dash's tailplane, but the Sydney photo looks a little odd without being able to see it.

[Hempy]

"heard" an interesting story a few years ago in Melbourne regarding a Dash 8 hitting the high speed ramp with its nosewheel still in the air. Comment from the SMC "nice landing".

:ok:

[Milt]

Looks like a greaser on the right main and a heavy coming down on the left.

Any pax reports?

[Hugh Jarse]

I can't see anything wrong with the landing photo...Quite a normal technique in a strong crosswind.

Milt, there's no reason why the left main would not be flown on smoothly as the ailerons are quite effective down to low speeds. Not to mention the rudder...

Yeh, give 'em jets: they'll be able to handle them...NOT! Well said Capt bloggs. I'd have expected no less of you.:8 Us lowly regional pilots know our place in the QF scheme of things:}

That's why more reputable airlines around the world are targeting us to fly those jets that we allegedly are unable to handle:} Ring your HR people and ask them how many have left the subsidiaries in the last couple of years.:ok:

[Howard Hughes]

Looks like perfect crosswind technique to me!

Have often seen dashes landing in 35kts crosswind on 09 in Melbourme, whilst the "real men" in their big shiny jets are accepting 20 mins holding!!

Better make that 18 mins now, you just got moved up one in the sequence thanks to the guys in the TURBOPROP!!

Cheers, HH.
:ok:

[TinKicker]

Everyone says that the wind must have been blowing pretty hard. Good pickup on the flag on the silo, but how about some hard evidence?

Go to the BOM site and to the weather charts page. Go to the bottom and find the analysis charts archive and bring up the 0000 and 0600 analysis charts for 14 August 2004. (Date the picture was taken).

Looks like a big front going through Brisbane from a low pressure system further down the coast. This would produce lots of wind.

So well done to the crew for what looks like a normal crosswind landing (provided to wind is from the right of the aircraft in the picture). If it is from the left then...........

Tinkicker

[Freddy Fudpucker]

Good picture! however to me the rudder doesn't appear opposing down wing. Capn bloggs silly comment, I can assure you that a Dash is alot harder to land than any jet I have flown, and they also operate outside class C and A airspace, which sometimes requires a S.A ability larger than any jet pilots ego. The Q means ANV fitted

[Transition Layer]

Tinkicker,

Re: hard evidence, I can go one better.

Check out Brisbane, QLD - Daily Weather Observations (http://www.bom.gov.au/climate/dwo/IDCJDW4019.latest.shtml)

On the 14th, max wind gust was from the W at 59km/h, (the third highest for the month) and the 9am wind speed of 26km/h from the W was in fact the highest for the month.

Given that the aircraft was probably landing RWY 19 (although i'm not all that familiar with the surroundings at YBBN), that equates to a decent crosswind depending on actual wind speed at the time. Maybe someone can deduce the time of day from the shadows that the aircraft is projecting?

Now does this end the speculation?

:D
TL

[Capt Claret]

From my experience on the Dash crosswind landings were always the smoothest.

Probably because one was concentrating on keeping the thing on the centre line rather than bracing for the usual main gear crunch! :}

[Romeo Tango Alpha]

Time was about 1pm by memory.

Put that much wing down in a 737 or similar and see what happens...

NOT the X-wind method I would have suggested, but to each their own.

As they say, any landing you walk away from is a good landing.

[curfew2]

just curious...

What method would you have suggested instead of ailerons into wind and opposite rudder?

[Capn Bloggs]

Jarse,
Just jesting! Sorry. Let the battle for the jets begin! Any Boeings going?:D
Ring your HR people
Not on your life! I'll probably get sacked!

[Pharknose]

The Ailerons appear to be in a Roll right position with a neutral rudder or possibly with a slight right deflection . Dash 8 300 Max Xwind on a Dry runway is 36 Kts and it is slower that a Jet so therefore has more drift. Anyway we all have bad days so can't be critical. Nice to see the boys have got the 300's body angle down below 6 deg.

[NAMPS]

I recall a hairy landing into a pretty stiff cross wind on RWY 05 at YARM. After wiping the beads of sweat from my forehead, I wandered down to the terminal to grab something to eat.

As I was walking down, a Dash 8 came in and landed left mains first THEN NOSE WHEEL, then right mains...:ugh:

[Uncommon Sense]

Perhaps this is the other technique referred to:

http://www.airliners.net/open.file/623732/M/

[Keg]

Looks like one of mine. If you can see the F/O with his eyes shut then it's DEFINATELY one of mine! ;) :}

[Ibex]

Discussing the position of control surfaces and whether the technique of an aircraft doing a frikken crosswind landing is best represented in the photo with regard to the actual conditions on the day is rather VERY VERY SAD.......

you know the thing about life, and getting one and all that..... yeah, good advice.

:yuk:

[Uncommon Sense]

Same day perhaps?

http://www.airliners.net/open.file/647113/M/

[Romeo Tango Alpha]

Like I said, try the technique in a low wing jet, and see the look of abject terror on the face of the captain (assuming that el capitan is not YOU!). If you want to drag wingtips and pods through the dust and tarmac, go right ahead! And then have your arse thoroughly kicked into the stratosphere.

It's all a matter of technique and timing in a low wing airliner. Crab all the way, then kick straight at the VERY last second. Then hold aileron into wind etc after touchdown. Not that hard, and in fact, I do it in light aircraft! I was taught that way from day one way back when, and have NEVER used the wing low during approach and landing technique - NEVER, even flying high wing higher performance aircraft!

To each his own. Sure, the technique is harder than the wing down technique, but not a darned lot in it really.

[cold]

Does anyone understand how a camera works?

Anything moving when the shutter opens will be captured as it is at that precise time.

During cross wind landings where the wind is gusting we all are surely aware that we are continually adjusting control inputs to stay on centerline while we make the transition from flying machine to driving machine.

The photo does not in any way represent what imputs were being given to the control surfaces other than where they were when the camera shutter opened. The time frame would most likely to have been something in the vacinity of 1/100 of a second, thus the rudder for example could have been in full deflection from one side to the other at maximum rate and you would not know.

Romeo Tango Alpha - on close inspection the photo appears to be a Dash8 and not a low wing podded jet so whats the problem?
Every aircraft has its own considerations and yours is not one for the Dash8 and im sure that the crew would recognise this if they were in a 737 for example.

Ibex - you are spot on... time for some people to get a life:yuk:

[Dixons Cider]

What a blardy song and dance about nothing!!
They landed the airplane using a technique appropriate to their aircraft type. End of story.

Sheeez, no wonder alot of the outsiders that wander on to this forum think we have our heads up our collective arses.

I concur with Ibex and cold.....get out there people

[Eurocap]

Looked pretty normal for Wellington, Invercargill, Rotorua and in fact anywhere that you might experience a decent crosswind!
:ok: :ok: :ok:

[Bula]

anyone (probably means most) know what the max acceptable wing down in one of our podded friends is?

Romeo Tango Alpha.. In the lighter stuff, using that technique, how many time have you used that method (in a stuff crosswind) and landed on the centerline without the wheel saying "ggggaaarrrrggghhhh forwards not sidewards!!!... wheels roll FORWARD!"1 :) haha (now before anyone has a #$%^ about that one its just taking the jist out of him alright ! ) FFFFFAAAAAAARRRR

[Eurocap]

As long as it doesn't hit the ground.
:mad: :mad: :mad: :ugh:

[Romeo Tango Alpha]

Romeo Tango Alpha.. In the lighter stuff, using that technique, how many time have you used that method (in a stuff crosswind) and landed on the centerline without the wheel saying "ggggaaarrrrggghhhh forwards not sidewards!!!... wheels roll FORWARD!"1 haha (now before anyone has a #$%^ about that one its just taking the jist out of him alright ! ) FFFFFAAAAAAARRRR

About 8 times out of 10 it's correct. Like I said, it's a matter of personal choice, practice, and experience. I have been doing that from when I was a sprog pilot - my instructor was ex-KLM pilot, and that's the way he taught it. Easy!

Now, BOTH ways are perfectly legitimate crosswind techniques. Like I said, personal choice, and wing low is NOT the technique I use.

[GT-R]

11 degrees = flap strike is about worst for 73.