Steaming!!

[jayteeto]

My last post was about cheap flying and today I am looking for a way to save a check ride... Yes, you have it, I'm nearly skint!
My SEP rating is due for renewal next month and I thought that I met the criteria for instant renewal. I have 40 SEP P1 hours in 12 months and 7 hours Dual in twins including an IR renewal test. (+350 heli hours). I also did a beasting of a check ride with an RAF instructor on tutors that included spinning, aeros, stalls, circuits, PFLs and emergencies earlier this year.
FCL at the CAA say that I have to do one hour dual on SEP with a JAR instructor. No other instructor or twin time counts. So this 12 months has included:

MEP Renewal, Twin IR Renewal, RAF Check ride, Full EC135 conversion plus 3 check rides in 10 months, Twin Squirrel Conversion and 2 check rides in 6 months. That is a total of 9 very difficult checks with an instructor in the last year!! Will someone please tell me what an hour in a 152 at £100 will do for me. Please be blunt if I am being naive.

[bookworm]

FCL at the CAA say that I have to do one hour dual on SEP with a JAR instructor. No other instructor or twin time counts.

Did you tell them you had completed an MEP renewal? The training flight can be replaced by any proficiency or skills test for a class or type rating.

[jayteeto]

I did!! He told me it had to be SEP with a JAR instructor. Nothing else would do. I am trying to make sense of LASORS today but am not hopeful. :(

[distaff_beancounter]

quote:
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FCL at the CAA say that I have to do one hour dual on SEP with a JAR instructor. No other instructor or twin time counts.
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Well, if that is what FCL is now saying, I for one have been getting it wrong for the last few years! :(

I have passed the annual proficiency test for my MEP every year since JAR came in, and these tests have been with at least 3 different JAR examiners. Two were very experienced CFIs & the other one a commercial instructor, so I assumed that they all knew the regulations, better than me.

All 3 of them have signed off my bi-annual SEP on the basis that the MEP test IS allowable in place of the SEP "one hour with a JAR instructor".

So, have my SEP sign-offs been invalid?
Or have the folks at the Belgrano moved the goal-posts again?:mad:

[sharpshot]

I still can't see the sense in having to go through all the SEP stuff when you have a valid multi rating:*

[rustle]

I still can't see the sense in having to go through all the SEP stuff when you have a valid multi ratingWhen was the last time you did a PFL on your MEP or ME-IR renewal?

[jayteeto]

Rustle, that is true, but the one hour dual does not have to include PFLs. From my understanding, it is not a check ride, just an hour dual. Could be a Navex! I might just try FCL again...

[18greens]

If MEP renewal counts for SEP then great, that will save some money but I fear the hour has to be in the same class of aircraft.

So if you had an SET or a Single engine sea class rating you would need an hour with an instructor or a proficiency check in each class.

Think about the people who spend all of their flying time in Jet Provosts then have to get into a 152 for a hour with an instructor to keep the licence current.

Rustles' point about the PFL is a valid one but heres a thought, why not do a PFL in the twin renewal with both engines idling? Could that not then count as the SEP renewal?

[englishal]

When was the last time you did a PFL on your MEP or ME-IR renewal?
please.....:rolleyes:

[dublinpilot]

Why bother going for FCL? Unless I missunderstand it, you just need an examiner to sign your licence to renew the rating. He'll confirm to CAA just the date that the appropriate flight took place.


dp

[bookworm]

I did!! He told me it had to be SEP with a JAR instructor. Nothing else would do.

Schedule 8 Part C Section 2 2(b)(ii)(aa)All single-engine piston aeroplane class ratings (land) and all touring
motor glider ratings – Revalidation
For revalidation of single-pilot single-engine piston aeroplane (land) class ratings and/or touring motor glider class ratings the applicant shall on singleengine piston aeroplanes (land) and/or touring motor gliders satisfy the requirements specified in paragraph 1.245(c)(1) of JAR–FCL 1.


1.245(c)(1) says (C) a training flight of at least one hour’s duration with a FI(A) or CRI(A). This flight may be replaced by any other proficiency check or skill test [ ].

If the CAA is interpreting this as a proficiency check or skill test in an SEP (like what? for an IR?) then the rules have been changed without consultation with stakeholders since the JAR-FCL system was introduced.

[Zlin526]

quote:
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When was the last time you did a PFL on your MEP or ME-IR renewal?


please.....:rolleyes:
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It happens.....Ask the guy who had a double engine failure recently while doing a test flight in a Seneca..

I believe the SEP renewal flight has to be done seperately, even though you may have done an MEP renewal/skills test. I think the goal posts were moved a few years ago, as I used to to do an MEP skills test every year, only to be told by my examiner that it didnt count towards the SEP renewal.:{

[bookworm]

Further to my last, take a look at Form SRG\1119 which is the application form for revalidation/renewal:

Guidance Part 4 (3) For revalidation and renewals. Indicate if the revalidation is by A Experience or B Test/Check. If by Experience the examiner shall ensure that the applicant presents logbook evidence of all flights claimed for a revalidation by Experience. Any Test/Check for a UK/JAA rating may be claimed in lieu of the one-hour Dual flight with an instructor; it may be conducted on any Class or Type of aeroplane including an approved STD. (my bold)

[jayteeto]

Bookworm, thank you my good chap!! Will download the appropriate document. The £100 will now be available for the kids schoolshoes....:D

[S-Works]

just did all my renewals in one hit by doing my MEP renewal. All MEP skills test plus IMC renewal requirements in the twin. Single engine ILS etc and that satisfied the requirements.

And I knew bookworm woul have the answer chapter and verse. respect!

[distaff_beancounter]

Bookworm, thanks for digging out the definitive info. :)

Its nice to know that I am still legal :ok:

[rustle]

Is there not also a requirement that the certificate of renewal/revalidation (whatever it is called) also be signed off at the time of the test?

So if you did your MEP and ME-IR renewal tests you should have the SEP certificate signed at the same time?

There's no "backdating" allowed, so even if you flew the MEP renewal on, say, 10th August and had the MEP cert signed, there's no way you could go back to examiner today and ask him to sign off your SEP cert because you "forgot"...

[18greens]

Well done Bookworm. Its nice to know I was wrong.

Now can you find the reference that allows an IMC rating to be renewed at the same time as an ME-SP-IR renewal in a sim.

[S-Works]

i was under the impression that an IMC is automatically kept current by a current IR. That is certainly what I have been told during my JAR IR course.

[distaff_beancounter]

rustle
There's no "backdating" allowed, so even if you flew the MEP renewal on, say, 10th August and had the MEP cert signed, there's no way you could go back to examiner today and ask him to sign off your SEP cert because you "forgot"...
Not a problem for me as my MEP & SEP expire on the same day of the year.

BUT, so long as the examiner who did the MEP test, signs the candidate's log book, then presumably that flight stands in lieu of the one hour instrutional flight.

So, assuming he has the 12 hours in year 2, why can't that pilot then go to ANY examiner at a later date to get his SEP signed off?

Another question for bookworm? :confused:

[18greens]

Bose, You are correct but the IMC is valid for a year longer than the IR. Since the priviledges are basically the same for practical flying purposes (as long as you fly in the UK, out of airways and who goes down to 200' anyway) it takes the pressure and cost off renewing every year (and this thread was about economising).

I also find it bizarre that an IR can be renewed in a sim but an IMC needs to be done in a plane.

[S-Works]

18 greens, I know but I was responding to someone else who mentioned doing an ME-IR renewal and still doing an IMC renewal.

[18greens]

Sorry Bose. I'll get my coat.

[bookworm]

Is there not also a requirement that the certificate of renewal/revalidation (whatever it is called) also be signed off at the time of the test?

So if you did your MEP and ME-IR renewal tests you should have the SEP certificate signed at the same time?

No you only have to provide evidence to the examiner issuing the CofR by experience for SEP that you've carried out a skill or proficiency test for a UK licence/rating within the 12 months preceding the expiry of the SEP rating. The signed up card should be sufficient.

However, if your SEP/MEP ratings aren't in synch and you have the hours in the second year by the time you do the MEP test, there's no reason why the examiner shouldn't also revalidate your SEP rating (valid for 24 months from expiry) as you've then met all the requirements.

Now can you find the reference that allows an IMC rating to be renewed at the same time as an ME-SP-IR renewal in a sim.

Unfortunately I can't. The stuff in LASORS E 3.4 which covers that sort of thing is delightfully contorted. I've always done a test in an aeroplane for IR renewal and the examiner has always also signed up my IMC rating on request.

[Crashondeck]

I'm not surprised you're skint!! All those fancy ratings in fancy machines. I'm surprised you have time to do you SEP check!!!!!

Hope you manage to get it sorted.