LEEDS

[LBAir]

The PPruNe 'Airports and Airlines' seems to hoast rather a lot of threads about LBA. I have decided to start a new 'Leeds Expansion' thread, the old Leeds Expansion thread is out of date and there does appear to be enough happening at LBA to support another thread. Hopefully this can give the other PPRuNers a little more space!

Leeds Bradford International Airport (LBA) is on course to handling 2.3 million passengers this year. The airport has plans to build a new rail spur to the airport, a new link road from the Leeds Outer Ring Road. Also to extend the long stay carpark and to build a new business park.

Although the airport has not announced its 30 year strategic plan, other developments are thought to include:-

*A new 300m runway extention making the runway 2550m in length
*A new full length parallel taxiway
*A apron extension with capacity rising from 18 stands to around 26-30 aircraft .
*A new multistory carpark
*extended or new terminal facilities.

Yorkshire passengers are on the verge of having a major boost to air travel with the developments at Leeds Bradford International (and at Doncaster Shefield), the most under exploited area in the country. The opportunities for both airports are enormous.

To avoid the "them'n'us" banter please keep this thread based on LBA. DSA/NEMA/MAN all have their own threads.:ok:

[Jetting2]

Those all seem like reasonable and realistic targets to me!

LBA never seems to have a fast moving approach to its development and in the modern industry this is something it needs to sustain its position in the Yorkshire area.

:ok:

[ILS32]

LBAir

I think it is a great idea to have a thread dedicated to any items in regard to any future expansion at Leeds.There are far to many people out that who's sole aim in life is to rubbish the airport.To many people with negative attitudes who don't want the airport to succeed.The runways to short,its to high up,its always foggy or it suffers from crosswinds.How we've managed
to attract nearly 2.3 million passengers a year beats me.

The biggest problem seems to me that we do not help our selves.
We do not market the airport strongly enough.That can be seen from the postings on another thread.Its time to shout louder that
we are Yorkshires No1 airport and stop holiday makers and business travellers having to go else where to fly to destinations
that should be flown from LBA.

The proposed developements will make a hell of a difference if some or all of them actually happen.The big problem is where the
money is coming from.Whether it is provided by the goverment,
the local councils or private finance the money needs to be found as soon as possible to get on with the expansion of the LBA.
The sooner it is done then as one PPruner called us we will no longer be a tinpot airport.

ILS32

[LBAir]

I believe the government changed the borrowing rules for authority owned airports some years ago. I understand the rules now stipulate that as long as the airports are operated as full Limited companies, council owned airports could borrow money like any other business.

LBA expansion has untill now largely been done through profits of the airport. Dividend payments to the council authorities have all gone back into the airport business to pay for better facilities and infrastructure.

I am convinced that the time is right now, for the LBA (Ltd) company to borrow to facilitate larger prodjects. Any large scale prodject would undoubtedly add to the value of the airport should the councils wish to sell the company. :cool:

[Mooncrest]

LBAir,

Check your PMs please. Thankyou.

MC

[LBAir]

Tomorrow will see the move of almost all Leeds' charter traffic to its recently opened check-in hall B. A total of 9 holiday flights will be checked in tomorrow through B hall.

It would appear that the airport authority is planning to move all charter traffic to the new B hall for the winter season. The new B hall has a large open area far better suited to handle larger flights and it is surtain to facilitate greater throughput of passengers.

The airport has also commenced the referbishment of the former BMI lounge. The area will have a much lighter, brighter atmostphere.

from YORKSHIRE:ok: the place to be is the city of Leeds.

[PPRuNe Pop]

This thread is re-started because the original poster has deleted the 'other' thread.

Please stay on topic and enjoy.


PPP

[PPRuNe Pop]

Back to the top!

[Leodis]

LBA's new check-in makes a hell of a difference. On Saterday when most of the holiday flights went through 'Check-in Hall B' everything looked so much smoother. No stampead through the revolving doors. No queing outside to get in the terminal.

Lets hope the airport move quickly now to get the other things sorted.:cool:

Flying without wings is not my Forte;)

[682ft AMSL]

Announced earlier in the week that an extra 495 long stay car parking spaces are to be built in readiness for passenger growth in 05.

The press report suggestd the extension would be in the land between the apron embankment (stand 18) and the office building on Scotland Lane.

How this fits in with talk of 5 more aircraft parking stands at the East End, I'm not sure?

682

[bmifox]

Why don't they just build a multi-storey cark park opposite the terminal? Both EDI and GLA have had these built recently.

[pwalhx]

I am alone in thinking this piecemeal (forgive me if I spelt this wrongly) to development is making what was once an attractive airport look like a lego kit.

When I first moved to LBA 14 years ago the sweep of the Terminal building was very attractive, but the additions make it just look odd. As a passenger unless you know it I can imagine the terminal is now quite confusing. In particular the security area seems always to be a bottle neck when I fly.

Living in Halifax I must admint I often find it easier and more convenient to use Manchester. Whilst the distance is greater the road network means there little difference time wise.

Whilst I am on a roll, I also have to admint whilst Jet2 offer some good prices, of late whenever I have wanted to book they have been expensive to both Paris and Prague.

[bmifox]

Just seen on the 'Departure's board' on the website another Excel flight to Brescia. Does anyone know who this is for and how many pax went on it?

[PTH needs tarmac]

One or two posts over various threads have touched on this point but this seems like the best place to set the ball rolling for this.

Is it time to “privatise” LBA?

I put privatise in inverted commas as several UK airports have been transferred to private management over the last few years through a variety of mechanisms. LTN is managed by a private consortium for 30 years but remains owned by the local borough, NCL was part sold off and EMA sold completely.

What do the 5 current owners, the councils of West Yorkshire, receive for their ownership? The latest figure I heard was an annual return of 200k pounds to be shared between them. For Bradford this would mean 80k. Contrast this to the annual budget for Bradford Council of than 1,000 million pounds, so the return from LBA is insignificant.

At the risk of broadening this thread beyond LBA, what has the experience of other airports been following privatisation? I would be interesting to hear first hand about both negative and positive aspects. We are all too familiar with the “drive costs down” aspect but have the new management actually improved the airport infrastructure, attracted new services, improved airport access etc. Which privatisation route is the best? If any? How much financial return might be expected?

PTH

[wawkrk]

Privatising the airport will not happen.
How many of the councillers will vote themselves out of a job,well maybe out of a hobby!

[PTH needs tarmac]

wawkrk – Why would Councilors votes themselves out of being LBA non-executive directors?

Answer – to stop themselves being voted off the Council by the electorate!

With Councils under strong pressure to limit rises in Council tax, both by the national Government and because of its increasing public unpopularity, they have to be open to “alternate revenue streams” (as it's termed on the Leeds Council website). If Council Tax needs to rise more than whatever limit the government hints will be “too much” while having a large asset such as LBA then more Councilors will start to link the dots.

As I pointed out before Leeds and Bradford both have Con/Lib leadership so there is much less of an ideological block than with the previous Lab administrations.

I’d say it’s more likely now than last year, but I’m still not sure just how probable that is????

If the cheque is big enough they'll bite.

PTH

Has anyone tried selling an airport on Ebay before?
;)

[682ft AMSL]

Leeds City Council had a very strange debate on this in the earlier part of the year. A motion was proposed by the leader of the (then) opposition to commission a report to investigate the pros and cons of selling some/all of the Council's stake in the airport. Note, it wasn't a yes/no vote on whether to sell the airport, it was just a vote on whether to prepare a feasibility study to then allow a more meaningful debate on the matter. The (then) ruling Labour group used their majority to defeat the proposal. I found it strange for 2 main reasons:

- the airport is jointly owned by the 5 local authorities in the area. Any debate such as this must surely be done at a regional level, not just from within Leeds.

- Why did the ruling Labour Group vote against a feasibility study? Voting against privatisation is fine if that vote has been taken with all of the facts in front of you, but effectively voting against something to give you those facts just seems a dereliction of duty. It's the local council equivalent of putting your hands over your ears and shouting 'la la la la' in order to try and avoid listening to something!

I don't know whether privatisation, either full or part, would be beneficial or not. It has certainly benefited a number of regional airports that are of a similar size to LBA and there remain very few UK airports under complete local authority control. The transfer of equity from public to private has also been done for considerable sums of money. Those two facts alone and the prospect of a 'win win' for the area would have me chomping at the bit to find out more. Clearly more than half of the city councillors back in March decided they didn't. As I say, strange.

As PTH says, the council changes in June means the balance of power has changed. Cllr. Carter who proposed the motion back in March is now leader of the council and barring any nonsense which means a motion cannot be re-proposed, I hope he'll try again.

682

[MerchantVenturer]

I don't know whether privatisation, either full or part, would be beneficial or not. It has certainly benefited a number of regional airports that are of a similar size to LBA........

Bristol is one of those airports. In the early 90s it was about the same size as LBA in terms of pax and destinations.

It was wholly owned by the Bristol City Council, a body then whose ruling members were opposed to the sale of what they regarded as public assets.

BRS had the good fortune to have as its operational head at that time a man called Les Wilson. He was a dynamic individual who lived and breathed his airport. I did not know him personally but I am sure he was frustrated at the attitude of his employers as he sought to drive BRS into becoming a significant regional facility. Tragically, he was killed in a car accident in the mid 90s and never lived to see the subsequent expansion.

The city council, probably reluctantly, came to realise that the airport would stagnate without major cash injections, something that was beyond their ability to provide. In December 1997 they sold a controlling interest (51%) to First Group plc and in January 2001 sold their remaining interest when the airport was acquired by the Australian Mcquarie Bank and Cintra, part of the Spanish Ferrovia Group, who are still the owners.

Without private money the new terminal (opened in 2000) could not have been built, neither would the diversion of the A 38 (to allow the installation of Cat III landing) nor the new control tower have occurred. Other improvements have been and are still being made to the airport.

Since 1997 (the year First Group took control) the airport's annual pax figures have gone from about 1.75 million to an expected 4.5 million this year

A word of warning though to those who think the sale of LBA would automatically reduce council taxes. BRS was sold for £198 million in 2001 and the city council received a large chunk of this. However, they were not allowed to use the money to defray everyday council expenses. Part of the money went to central government and the remainder went mainly to capital projects or into the council's reserves. Having said this, by dint of financial dexterity following receipt of the airport dosh, Bristol City Council did manage to limit council tax rises for a year or two.

I have never believed that local authorities should own and run airports. The directors of the companies usually formed by the councils to run airports often have no business experience whatever and they are the people who are supposed to take the strategic decisions. Furthermore, local authorities are restricted in the way they can raise the large amounts of money required to take airports forward.

[ILS 119.5]

Just been looking at the outdated thread.
What I cannot understand is, why have the airport company stopped the staff reading pprune? surely they must realise that the staff can read it at home. Is it because all the postings showed a flaw in the management and they did not want the staff to read about their incompetence. Is it because the management are hiding their incompetence from the councils.
Surely pprune is beneficial to all the airport employees and employers as has been shown regarding the website update.
I believe it is both. When the MD is only part time and the Director of Operations is on long term sick, who is running the airport? Obviously no one qualified to do so.
Why is the Airport Board not reacting to this and trying to find out a cure to keep the public happy. The airport should be a public service company as a priority and non profit making. At the moment all profits made, I believe, are put back into the company. However money is being made by not updating the present needs. Such as ongoing repairs, staff shortages and budgeting sufficeintly for future expansion.
Surely, common business sense says that if you are not making enough money then go out and get more business, easy.
I hope the efforts of BMIFOX are rewarded and LBA expands further.
Without this forum then public interests would not be heard, the airport management would not have realised how badly they are running a business which should be run by aviation professionals, rather than unprofessional managers. If the efforts by BMIFOX are looked at then maybe privatisation may be considered by the councils. What the airport need is dynamic professional directors and managers to push the place 20 years ahead of what it is now.
To go back to a previous comment regarding something on the lines that LBA is still being run as a parochial airport. What will LHR do when terminal 5 opens, (compared to b check-in), face painting-no, punch and judy-no, balloons-no. Yes LBA is still being run like a new car dealership opening.
Anyway no more ranting and have said my piece for now, will check further whilst away in hotter places.
ILS 119.5

[RobT100]

I dont know if anybody noticed (BMIFOX ?), but someone from LBA made a comment to the news teletext service which I noticed today about it being LBA's busiest day of the year.
So busy in fact, that they had put extra flights to spain on - this absolute clap-trap, there have been no extra flights that I have noticed.
Perhaps this is a new ploy by that fantastic marketing departments to bull-up the airport.

All opinions on here are what I have been thinking for ages, which is why I have decided to join this forum to add my support. LBA needs to be a proper airport and professionally run !

Regards

[Leodis]

ILS 119.5

A great write up there, everything you say seems well thought out and quite frankly correct. :)

Just a thought...... Living in Yeadon, close to the airport I have recieved various things from the Conservatives and Lib Dems over the last couple of years. Nothing from either has been pro LBA. Everything has just been Anti LBA.

I cannot help but think that The new Lib Dem/ Tory pact at Leeds City Council will help the airport one bit. I hope for all our sakes i'm wrong!!:ouch:

Flying without wings is not my forte:ouch:

[Frankfurt_Cowboy]

Bit of an excercise for you. Go to the news page on the airport site and do a keyword search on the word "Jazz". Short of ideas anyone? Or is there some link between Dixieland jazz and air travel that I'm missing!!

[ILS 119.5]

Hi all,
I have just been discussing with the other Captain and Senior First Officer (who works part time for the company) for the last 10 hours, (or part of it when we were not actually working), the ups and downs of working part time. Working part time means you have more time off however you do not get paid your full salary but paid on a pro rata basis. The point I am making is, why do LBA pay their directors and managers a full salary for working part time. Surely if any of LBA's employees were engaged in duties not involved with the Airport Company during their contracted hours then they should be either made to work their contracted hours for LBA or be paid a part time salary.
For the people who manage LBA, and the Councillors who are supposed to be on the Airport Board overseeing the way LBA is run, would this not make commercial sense? Look at this in two ways, either get more by making part time staff who are paid a salary for working full time actually work full time, or save money by paying the full time staff who work part time a part time wage.
To me this is good business sense. However, knowing how councils waste money then I don't suppose this piece of common sense would ever register into their dormant brains.
Lastly, I must say that the success of LBA will not be governed by the part time management, but it will be by the full time input from the believers, supporters and customers of the airport. When the local elections are due next time and your local council candidate comes around knocking for support, invite them in and ask what they are going to do. Make suggestions as you probably know more than them. If they are not willing to do anything then don't vote for them and tell them so, they will soon get the message.
Another rant from me, but logical I think. it's too hot here so off to the pool for a pre dinner swim.
ILS 119.5

[wawkrk]

It is a pity that some of the truly excellent postings have been lost with the deletion of LBA Greek summer programme.
But alas,maybe all this is a waste of time anyway.
When I think back over the years about the history of LBA management,I find it totally depressing.
My interest began as a teenager in the in the1960`s.The MD at the time I think was a guy named Sellers. He was an absolutely incompetent idiot when interviewed on TV.
Then in later years,we had a chairman who owned a Reliant Robin, lived in a council house, and spent most of his time in a local low life pub.Nothing wrong with this,but an aviation professional,I think not.
I campaigned for the 1986 runway extension,then later for 24hr flying. This all happened of course but years too late.
Looking at next years charter programme,Majorca for example has been reduced from 9 flights to 6, and no based aircraft from Thomsons,whilst Teeside has a based B738 and the so called joke airport Robin Hood gets a 757.
I cannot see any changes in the future unless the airport is privatised.It will be a miracle if excellent people like BMIfox can create any changes without radical alterations to the management structure and strategy.
It seems the airport is still stuck in a time warp and the current success with Jet2 is down to pure luck.No doubt the management team will dine out on this for several years to come.
wawkrk

[Jetting2]

... No based Thomson Aircraft?

have i missed something? this still seems to be the case on the thomson holidays website.

[wawkrk]

OK, I did not check the Thomsons info and relied on what I had been told.
So have the number of flights been reduced or increased?

[Jetting2]

ok.. sorry i thought it was going to be more bad news.

Looking at it.. as has been discussed before there are some alterations but with the addition of Zackynthos, they look roughly the same as this year. It lloks like they have also swapped one spanish carrier for a Tenerife flight that operates late Tuesday, early Wed.

Sorry for the confusion!

[682ft AMSL]

A big week for the LBA team to shine. Tomorrow sees the launch of Jet2's CDG service, August passenger numbers should be available and with a following wind should be above 250,000 for the first time and the 8th Jet2 aircraft to be based at Leeds arrived over the bank holiday. Plenty of opportunity to talk about things of more interest than jazz bands, taxi shortages and plaques on walls.

On a wider note, PPrune has undoubtedly brought to light much dissatisfcation with various aspects of how the airport is managed and operated. Some of the criticism is probably justified, some of it is perhaps harsh. Everyone of course is entitled to opinion.

I'd stress though that if you just want to actually want to try and move the debate forward, writing to the council leaders in Leeds and Bradford and the Airport Chair is what's required - not just a general rant on here. Remember the airport is owned by the 5 local authorties and they employ a management team to run the place and also set out a framework for how they want the airport to be run.

If the Councils are telling EA to run the airport to make a nice little profit and attract a reasonable but not expansive range of business, charter and low-cost services and limit growth to its existing infrastrucural capability then one can hardly blame the guy for doing that. In fact if that is the remit, he's doing it very well.

If on the other hand they are telling him to claw back all of the local passengers that use Manchester then frankly, its not been a great success.

You see my point though; the people to complain to are the people in council who are dictating airport policy, not the people who follow their orders.

So don't just let bmifox do all the work writing to the people in the council and don't just wait 2 years until the next round of council elections. There is a lot of valid debate on here but the people that need to hear it are:

Andrew Carter (leader Leeds City Council)
[email protected]

Margaret Eaton (leader Bradford City Council)
[email protected]

Tony Cairns (airport chair)
[email protected]

682

[Leodis]

The points you have made are quite justified. I think the problem at LBA though seems to be that the aviation industry changes too quickly for the management to react. I do believe that over the last few weeks the forumers on PPruNe have made the management wake up to those challenges.

I have seen EA a lot more alate, on his foot patrols, things apear to be moving a little now. New additional seats have appeared in the international arrivals meeter and greater area. The empty space there has been filled by a car promotion. It would be better filled by an airline promotion, but its a start.

I just hope that the things happening behind in the vaults of the airport are of an equal scale and that marketing have pulled their finger out and get the ball in motion for some additional charter traffic, if not for S05 then at least W05.

PS. Me thinks Jet2 to Copenhagen next!!!!!

[PTH needs tarmac]

Well, as far as we can tell Jet2 successfully started their new service to Paris CDG yesterday. The LBIA website was stuck showing “Gate closed” for a couple of hours after the inaugural flight departed which made me suspect it was running late. The Aeroport de Paris website had LS315 arriving at CDG T3 from GLASGOW rather than Leeds and I was told there is no entry at all for flights on Fridays.

On the positive side, both flights did arrive early.

I’m sure we’re all looking to the glowing reports of this event on the LBIA website and in ALL the local newspapers. Nothing in any of the above yet.

PTH

[Bottles]

This isn't specifically expansion related but here goes anyway...

RW 27/09 is closed at the moment for resurfacing between A3 and B. Seems to be rather odd that this work is going on; I thought this runway was earmarked for closure and absorption into an extended parking apron in the non too distant future. Perhaps the boys are going to extend the apron the other way instead.

The Watchman radar head was removed from its tower yesterday and carted off for maintenance. Seemed to take hours to do the job; how many nuts and bolts and cables are there ? So at the moment the LBA radar service is secondary only which is piped in from Claxby, Lincs. Here's hoping that when it returns from Siemens Plessey or wherever it's sporting a new paint job and the very latest in super duper SSR heads on its top. LBA can stop paying the CAA for SSR cover then. Mind you, I can't deny that it is the CAA who's providing at the moment so fair play to them.

[PPRuNe Pop]

Do not start other threads, of any description, in regard to LBA. I have closed one and deleted another, if there are other instances you may be deleted. I have better things to do than chase around PPRuNe looking for new LBA posts. One is enough and that is ALL you get. Please do not do it.

PPP

[PTH needs tarmac]

Well the Press Release from LBA is out.

They missed the 250,000 mark by a long way, almost 10,000 short. Despite 93,302 passengers on Jet2, about 40,000 more than last August, there was just a 6% rise in the total passenger figure. This is the first time is years that August has been behind July.

We are told EDI, GLA, ABZ all increased and the sum of the two Belfast routes must be at the very least equal to last years fly.be performance. This leaves few candidates to account for the poor result. The most likely must be the IT sector which had been down year on year for June and July 2004.

The fact that Jet2’s Nice service managed a 106% increase is not such big news when we remember that this year it’s a daily service rather than 3 times weekly. For the record, July 2004 posted a 136% rise according to CAA Provisional statistics.

A 15% rise on the EDI route with bmi route probably disguises a lower load factor as the F100 is in regular use on the route this year as opposed to an all Emb145 service.

We also told that the first Jet2 service to CDG was sent off in a “typically French” style. Could we have some elaboration on that? Was everyone given a string of garlic bulbs, a stripy jersey and a bike with a big basket on the front? One line doesn't seem to be enough for a major event of this nature, does it?

And to finish a quote from EA……wait for it…..

‘Results from a recent survey have shown that the overwhelming majority of passengers wish to fly from their closest airport and this is borne out by our record figures for August.’

……I’ll hand that one over to everyone else to comment on.

PTH

[KAT TOO]

I have been saying for some time that Leeds will face an uphill battle once Dony gets underway, i would not be surprised to see next years peak Summer pax numbers to be below this Summer for a number of reasons, the economy is cooling, people are starting to get a bit fed up with airport hassel and we will be very lucky to go through the US elections with out a major terror event and with UK elections probably less than a year away..well

In any event Jet2 have had an excellent year, but they will also face a big struggle to increase their pax numbers without more aircraft and more summer routes.all the more so if rumours of another loco at Leeds prove to be true

bmi have swapped aircraft around in response to Jet2 Paris launch, the miday service is now on a Fokker100 with the late afternoon service switched to a 135 so seat number have increased by only 39 in total (now237 as to 198 before) each way per day, at least it limits the money they can lose at some of the very low fairs on offer. At present it looks like the Fokker will stay on the early and late EDI service doing the middle Paris.

The new LCY route is selling slowly but its early days and bmi like to keep their routes secret!! hopefully by the time the new 135 advanced turn up there will be some passengers for them, its a good route for getting to Frankfurt and far quicker than via LHR

The LBA winter program is looking very shallow, it will be like a ghost town and i wouldn't be surprised to see them close check in area B until spring to save on heating costs

[682ft AMSL]

I have been saying for some time that Leeds will face an uphill battle once Dony gets underway

Indeed you have. But have you explained why you think this to be the case? DSA is yet another airport within an hour and bit's drive from LBA. offering (as yet) nothing particularly revolutionary. Passengers using LBA are already exercising a choice over MAN, LPL, EMA, MME and HUY; DSA is just another one in the mix. Add to this the fact that the annual leakage of passengers from Yorkshire to Manchester is measured in millions and not thousands, then the potential upsides for Leeds and DSA in terms of pulling traffic back from MAN far outweigh the downside of traffic in the mid-Yorkshire region switching between the two of them.

BTW - the drop in passengers in Aug04 vs Aug03 had (believe it or not) as much to do with their being only 4 Fridays and Saturdays in 2004 compared to 5 in 2003. These are the biggest IT days for Leeds, so logically enough fewer of them = fewer passengers. Evens itself out over a season of course, but taking a trend from 1 month's data is misleading.

In any event Jet2 have had an excellent year, but they will also face a big struggle to increase their pax numbers without more aircraft and more summer routes. All the more so if rumours of another loco at Leeds prove to be true.

Good job Jet2 have both more a/c and routes in the pipeline then. Wasn't it you who said that 5 extra stands were to built to accomodate loco growth in summer 05? And you're now saying there might be another loco coming (let me guess, the 'baby' rumour again). So why the doom and gloom predictions for summer 05?

bmi have swapped aircraft around in response to Jet2 Paris launch....

The winter schedule shows CDG and EDI sharing a 145 and a Fokker between them. Both 3 daily in the week and when one route has the 145 the other has the Fokker and vice versa. Different combibnations on different days. Mondays and Fridays see more usage of the Fokker to CDG, midweek sees the Fokker doing mainly the EDI. Actually seems quite sensible from bmi for a change.

The LBA winter program is looking very shallow, it will be like a ghost town

You haven't seen the Jet2 winter timetable then?

682

[ALLMCC]

Was wondering what with Jet2's continuous expansion at LBA and rumours of another low cost operator coming, what the future holds for Flybe there.

With still only one route out of LBA (to BHD) and now competing against Jet2 to BFS , one has to wonder if their days there are numbered and they will opt to use the BHD based aircraft for other routes.

[682ft AMSL]

ALLMCC - the LBA crew base closed a fair while ago and they have been using a BHD machine ever since.

682

[Tommyinyork]

JET2 are better off just doing MYT flights next summer using a 737 on Medeterian routes and another company doing the Canaries routes.

[Leodis]

Whilst I have said one or two harsh words about LBA regarding the state of the terminal and the lack of IT flights. What you have said makes a lot of sense. The Yorkshire region as a whole is so underserved in aviation terms. There is enough business out there for LBA, HUY and the new DSA.

A lot was said about the marketing team at LBA on the 'Greek IT' thread that 90% of the forumers agreed with. This isn't to say that I don't think LBA can continue to grow and expand, far from it. LBA has had sustained growth for many years now. The fact is that LBA must wake-up to the challenges.

The fundamentals are already there, the infrastructure needs tweaking. Shefield Council has demanded its own airport for years. Leeds City Council up untill only a few years ago, pushed Manchster airport.At Leeds (Bradford) the council, whilst the centre of Leeds is coming on in leaps and bounds, the airport and the North West end of Leeds appear to be forgoten. Transport needs to be made Leeds's No1 priority. If the transport in Leeds we're a body, it would be having a coronary.:ouch:

I am sure that over the next year, the airport will continue to grow, but how willing is the board to invest in the very thing that helps to ferther inward investment to the economies of Leeds Bradford and West Yorkshire. If the councils are set on keeping this as an asset, then get investing.

Jet2 Copenhagen or Berlin next!!!

[wawkrk]

I wonder if the LBA management will be saying that the airport complements DSA as they said of Manchester.
How does Leeds complement Manchester,by sending passengers over by bus?
Why when Leeds is the 3rd largest city in the UK after London and Birmingham.Manchester being ninth!Glasgow is about 4th.
What is the handicap,is there something wrong with Leeds?.
Manchester does not even have an airport,Ringway is in Cheshire.
So,what a fantastic marketing job they have done!.

[PTH needs tarmac]

682

I missed the fact about the lower number of weekends this August compared to 2003 and that will have had a big effect. July and September should receive a boost for the same reason, probably more so for July as I assume the schools went back last week.

I should point out the more positive angle that August was LBA’s second busiest month of all time. For the year, including August, there have been 1,554,228 passengers compared to 1,327,023 in 2003 and we still have the busy months of September and October to come.

If anything it’s been Murcia that’s been a surprise to me, though I know relatively little about the area. The proximity to ALC might look like a problem but in July more people went to MJV with Jet2 than to ALC (or BCN). A scan of the Low Fare finder suggests MJV is priced a little lower than ALC but it’s clearly doing far better than BGO last year.

KAT TOO

Do you have any solid data on where passengers at LBA come from? Without this I don’t see how you can support your statements. Some ought to exist as it’s a fundamental thing for the airport to know in order to target advertising…. OK maybe there isn’t any, but there should.

Just from looking at a map I would say the following. We know that passengers go to MAN from the entire north of England. Closest to DSA are Doncaster, Rotherham and Sheffield. Most people from here would go to MAN or EMA anyway not LBA. Folks from Leeds, Bradford, Harrogate and York are most likely to use LBA and MAN, but we know many travelers for LCC’s will travel a couple of hours to EMA or LPL given the right price. At least LBA is grabbing this market sector back via Jet2.

So, how many people from the middle ground cities of Huddersfield and Wakefield will choose DSA as opposed to LBA that wouldn’t take MAN over both of them anyway? I know there will always be exceptions if you live in Leeds next to Junction x of the M62 and you say it’s easier to get to MAN (or DSA) than LBA but I think that’s dependent on the time of day you need to travel.

I think it’s far too early to say that DSA will take large numbers of passengers from LBA. The IT range on offer at DSA is (potentially) better than LBA but will be duplicated fully at MAN so surely that’s where the effect will be felt most.

The presence of Jet2 on the AMS route had no effect on KLC figures, in fact many months KLC recorded year on year rises, so joining bmi to CDG is probably going to be similar.

There is only one reliable method to find out what IT programme LBA has for any given summer – wait until the 1st May and look at teletext! The fact that BAL keep filling a B767 for out of season IT flights says that people do want to fly from LBA. I think it’s down to the LBA management to drag in the operators and overly relying on My Travel and TUI to the run of the mill Spanish destinations just hasn’t done the job. Time to be more creative, just like NCL and EMA.

PTH

[Tommyinyork]

The problem of the reduction in flights from LBA is the problems at MYT, its nothing to worry about as we will get a sub chartered plane and who cares if we have lost a few flights, were still gaining more flights than losing flights.
LBA is in a very healthy position, JET2 coming into the airport has to of been one of the best things that have ever happened.

[Vuelo]

Is it true that Air Transat are to start a LBA - YYZ weekly service from next Spring?

[KAT TOO]

You and i have been around for a long time and we both know our game. All the airports North of Luton that have big pax number have big IT programs and Leeds doesn't, i only wish that it did!

Nearly ever time i or anyone i know look to buy an inclusive package holiday be Med, Mountains & Lakes or skiing you nearly always end up with a `deal` from Manchester. If you can get the same package(and its not often) from Leeds, then the supplements can add £200.00 for a family of four, which will more than pay for the car parking at Manchester.

Remember that we are (on this fourm) are `expert` travellers, but most still turn up to an agent and say "what have got for the second week in June" and Manchester will nearly always come out cheaper. Doncaster will not stop leakage to Manchester, it may pull some of that leakage in its direction.

The most price sensitive market remains low cost, Jet2 may brand its self as " Yorkshires very own airline" but whay does that mean? As i said they have done an excellent job at Leeds and full credit to them, but they have had a following wind, let me explain!

Before Jet2 turned up a couple of years back, the only Loco you could use if you lived in this region was either down to NEMA or LPL or up to Newcastle. NEMA is 90 miles and 2 hours LPL a tad shorter, Jet2 saw that and the catchment area and are moving what a million a year? A lot more than that travel to MAN from this region

If we fast forward to Summer 05 and look at the choices, we have not only the ones above (NEMA,LPL,NEW) but also Teesside and Doncaster with loco. If you live in York or Wakefield area, then next year you have a lot more options and Jet2 are unlikely to be the cheapest, and please don't say price isn't everything, because for many its everything, after all as last weeks Yougov poll showed, why would anyone out of choice choose Ryanair and they are cheap.

Sure Leeds will continue to grow but i think (next Summer) will not be double digit and Jet2 needs to avoid having all its eggs in one basket, we might have global warming but doesn't mean that Leeds will never,ever, get snowclosed for days on end...it has happened before, it as never happened at Manchester, Teesside,Liverpool and won't at Doncaster

And that all down to your 682FT

Right, must dash, flight to catch from...yep Manchester

[LBA]

Vuelo - Where did you hear the Air Transat rumour?

I wish it would happen, we used to have them going via BHX before.

[Leodis]

KAT TOO....

You have not done your research here have you?

I Don't even need to research to know that Newcastle and Teesside have been snow-closed before for a substantial amount of time. Mentioning London Luton airport even Luton was snow-closed a couple of years since. Easyjet went ballistic and wanted to fine London Luton airport, having cancelled at least a whole days worth of flights.

Leeds has had one occasion that I can remember when it had been closed for more than 24 hours, the snow had been falling as wet snow. After multiple sweaps of the runway the serface started to become compacted, this followed by the falling of dry snow led to the freezing of the previous compacted wet snow. This is most unusual in this country. Normally snow in this contry just falls as wet snow followed by a thaw, not followed by dry snow.

So a combination of bad luck and maybe poor planning, the weather got the better of them. With DSA only having a token amount of flights to start with, DSA even if Peel can afford all the very latest snow clearing equiptment, I doubt that they will be able to support enough staff to operate such a large scale operation. This unless they're going to hire the cleaners to do the work!

Leeds' only 682 AMSL, not exactly a great hight is it, maybe by British standards but thats all?:hmm:

[Leodis]

Jet2.com boss PM announced today he is to start up flights next summer to the island of Ibiza in spain.

The announcement came prematurely today, when TUI Britannia flights scheduled to depart LBA at 0700 destination IBZ, was delayed more than seven hours because of a tech problem.

TUI Britannia decided that they could not bring another aircraft into Leeds for their stranded passengers. A decision was then taken by TUI, to bus the passengers to Manchester and catch a flight from there. After waiting upto an hour for busses to arrive from Manchester, the passengers finally left LBA to catch their flight from Manchester.

Mr PM was only too pleased to apologise to the passengers on behalf of TUI and invited their passengers to travel with JET2.com next summer.

The bottom line is..........

If you DON'T GO(TUI) Ibiza, then WE WILL(JET2) Ibiza:yuk:

[Mooncrest]

It's interesting to note how the locos (at LBA at any rate) are gradually worming their way into the TOs traditional destinations.
A colleague of mine yesterday asked me if Jet2 had any plans to operate to Tenerife from LBA. My answer was not with the current fleet as they don't have the range but who knows what the future holds. Planetair did it as a flight only so hopefully someone else can, hopefully with greater longevity.

In the meantime, good to have Ibiza as an additional destination.

:ok:

[Tommyinyork]

What might they look at adding to the fleet if they operate longer routes, a 737-400, 737-800, 757 (from MyTravel).

[ILS32]

Jet2.com hits million-mark

Just looked at the LBIA web site.It is saying that Jet2 have reached the 1 million passenger mark.This is a wonderful achievement and its been done in only 18 months.

It just proves that Jet2 were right in their belief that they could be successful at Leeds.Their decision to start a LO CO operation has been justified.Lets hope that it not long before their reach the 2 million mark.With further route expansion more aircraft
(where will they park them) then the 2 million should be achieved by late 2005.

So once again congratulations to JET2.

ILS32

[Jetting2]

Some more changes to the charters for 04/05

The winter Chambery has been extended to operate into April this year...

but for summer the new Ibiza flight for this year seems to be missing.. as do four charters to Palma.

Looks as though the Jet2 Ibiza will be needed. :confused:

[ILS 119.5]

Come on you lot, tell me. Where is 682ft measured from? If you know.

And the latest from LBA is that in order to save money the management refuse to provide full eye tests for VDU users within the company. This is against H & S Regulations, but again they are getting away with things and not advising the owning councils what they are doing. (breaking the law).
As soon as it becomes privatised the better.

[dbromle]

Measured from MSL to the highest point on the landing area of the aerodrome?

[ILS 119.5]

Ta. Where is the highest point?

Sorry forgot to say.
A few years ago LBA said that SKI flights were not what they wanted. What have they got now? Less years ago the said that they did not want a "low cost operater", what have they got now?. I\'m sorry to say that after running a very successfull business and being employed by a major airline "where does the smalltime attitude come from". Is it me or am I missing something?

[Tommyinyork]

WHta ever happened to the JET2 Milan service and is there any future routes being considered.

[Going loco]

Spotted this on the Private Flying forum - if true, 27/09 to be withdrawn from use to increase the apron size.

http://www.pprune.org/forums/showthread.php?s=&threadid=144314

A permanent decommissioning of the 'short' coupled with a splash of concrete laid on the grass islands between Bravo, Charlie and Alpha3 gives a potentially huge increase in apronage from about Stand 7/8 eastwards.

Wonder what's bubbling away at LBA HQ to lead to this course of action? I suppose all 18 stands will be occupied o/night this winter....

9 x Jet2
6 x bmi
2 x Eastern (share stand 1)
1 x KLM
1 x BY

..but with no based aircraft for MyTravel next summer, how much different is the summer going to be? Even if Jet2 said they wanted to drop in a few more, you could accomodate that with an overnight closure of 27/09, as per diversion nights, and reopen it for the GA lot during the day.

loco

[Jetting2]

Ibiza route starts 29th May 05 by the looks of things on the low fare finder.. 5 weekly flights. Cant be bad!

Also there seems to be the possibility to book all the existing destinations for next year in the low fare thing aswell.

Why have they put them all on sale so soon?

[bmifox]

Just found out that bmi will based 7 aircraft at LBA this winter. 3 Fokkers,3 EMB 135/145 and 1 ATR-42.

[Caslance]

I didn't know that bmi operated the ATR42. :ooh:

[LBA]

The ATR 42 will be wet leased from Atlantic Airways (I think?) to operate the new LCY route.

[bmifox]

Sorry...the ATR will operate flights for bmi to LCY from 1st November. I think it may well be a Atlantic Airways machine.
Anyone any ideas on Jet2's new routes for next summer??? Nice to see Ibiza is there already! I think that Almeria,Jersey, Newquay,Berlin, Budapest and Warsaw may make an appearance.

[Jetting2]

A snippet for an article in Thursday's Yorkshire post idicates new routes are too be confirmed soon.

"He is expecting some competition from the new Robin Hood Airport at Finningley, which is close to Doncaster and Sheffield.
But he said: "We have no plans to go there. We like Leeds-Bradford Airport. We reckon to get people through to the departure lounge in 15 minutes from the time they come through the doors. It's going to be hard for a new operation to beat that."
He added that more new destinations for next summer would be announced soon, but he did not want to tell his rivals which they were"

We shall have to wait and see...

[Leodis]

It is good to see Jet2 are still expanding from LBA. If they're to keep a hold of their little neche hub they'll have to ensure that all the gaps are filled to stop other operators from taking a foothold in the LBA loco sector. I just hope the airport can become more successful at attracting other scheduled and charter trafic.

At the moment it looks like the security screening move to the void area next to the food village is on hold. After all it isn't a money making scheme. LBA are now expected to quickly move ahead on expanding the profit making schemes, such as carparks and retail. The next phase of carparking will include upwards of 500 spaces in the longstay carpark, located in the area of Old White House Lane, in readyness for next summers expansion plans. (40-50 extra Jet2 departures a week)

I do think runway 27 is on its way out but I think LBA will leave expanding the apron untill the very last minute, in the interests of its coffers.

Leodis

Any thoughts????:cool:

[bmifox]

I have been "off line" for the past month and have just got back "on-line" today. Nice to see some things are still the same!

On the LBIA website under news on Sept 8th she tells the world about Page and Moy holidays offering 4 departures to Italy next year. I quote..."Italy is a very popular holiday destination and we are delighted to be able to offer the Yorkshire region more choice and an increasingly diverse range of holidays for summer 2005"

It's not Turkey, Greece or Cyprus is it? Or Croatia, Tunisia or Florida! No the new increasingly diverse range of destinations next summer are Zante and...erm...wait a minute...oh i know...the 757 bus goes to Otley!!!
GOD HELP US:(

By the way...TUI have pulled the Larnaca flight they took over from after Airtours dropped it! That means NO flights at all to Cyprus from LBA next year. Never mind eh...all the local airports which "complement" LBA ie DSA,MME,HUY,MAN etc etc all offer flights to BOTH LCA and PFO next summer.


Edited for using names. Altogether unacceptable and perhaps you should read my post below. PPRuNe Pop

[wawkrk]

bmifox,
I assume you missed missed all this fantastic marketing rubbish

Low cost airline Jet2.com took another step into Europe on the 1st September, as its first flight to Paris took off. It was berets all-round as staff and passengers celebrated the new route in style, with a party at Leeds Bradford airport boasting a typically French theme. A can-can girl and a musketeer were among those on show while passengers checked in for the new daily service. Entertainment was provided by ‘Pierre the Parisian street musician’, and flags and balloons decorated the check-in desk – all blue, white and red, of course!

I bet this took weeks to organise,still, I suppose it keeps the planks busy.

I thought LBA already had flights to Paris,have the marketing team looked at the timetables?

[PPRuNe Pop]

..................I have had one or two complaints that some of you are getting too ready to rant and make insinuations - and rubbish individuals. One has named names and I have corrected that.

The point here is, that you can debate if you follow certain PPRuNe rules.

* Do not name any person or persons - whoever they be.

* Do not flame or insult anyone.

* Do not enter into tit for tat arguments, they lead to flaming.

We are not against discussion, particularly if it is a subject that affects large numbers of people. But please respect every other persons right to state their own opinions. That includes BOTH sides of the argument.

THINK before you press the submit button.

Oh! One more thing. Making snide remarks is unecessary. It does show a level of childishness and no debating skills. Maybe you would like to think about that!

[BEST L/CONTROLLER]

With all due respect, you can slate the new CDG flt allyou want but it's full all the time so there is obvoiusley a marketfor it, I personally didn't think itwas gonna do well at all but they've proved me wrong, I understand that there needs to be more destinations from LBA but ifthere creatingextra flts even to destinations already served then that's still a good thing,Look atthe AMS flts 2aday by JET2 and 3aday by KLM, there always full, pitty about the Belfast routes though.

CHEERS!!!!!!:ok:

[ALLMCC]

Quote "pity about the Belfast routes though" - can you elaborate? According to Mr Meeson, all routes out of BFS are performing well! Have heard through the grapevine that after the initial flourish BFS - LBA has reduced considerably in usage.

[HOODED]

I believe the Aug figures for Jet2 averaged 60% LF. Reasonable, but for a LoCo poor compared to their average 81% across all their routes for the month INCLUDING BFS.

[BEST L/CONTROLLER]

What I meant was the LBA-BFS routes not the new routes from BFS I know they are doing well,

It only seems to be the weekend flts from LBA to BFS that seem to be full.

CHEERS!!!!!!! :ok: :ok:

[Leodis]

Question?????

Will the new Jet2 base at Manchester compliment the main Leeds base airport, or is this the end of the LOCO boom from LBA?:confused:

[pwalhx]

I don't think that Jet2 in Manchester will threaten the LBA operation.

At first I was surprised, but this could be a smart move, it establishes Jet2 as a Northern operator and their reputation for service is already well known in the North West. Although EZY and FR are at Liverpool, it keeps them out of direct competition.

Also I think BMI Baby may have a limited lifespan at Manchester, I can see some of their routes going mainline to feed the increasing longhaul destinations and the remainder could become easy pickings from Jet2.

Good luck to Jet2 in Leeds and Manchester I say.

[Leodis]

In an artical in the Manchester Evening News, PM suggested that the LBA base would be used to trial new services.

Although not yet announced officially, Budapest and Valencia look likely to be announced from LBA shortly, along with pehaps one or two other supprises! ;)

[682ft AMSL]

The Leeds Jet2 operation is obviously a big money spinner for Dart / Channex judging by this statement released to the stock-market this morning:

There follows a Half-Year Trading update from the Group's Chairman and ChiefExecutive, Philip Meeson.

'Further to my Statement at the Annual General Meeting on 5 August, I am pleased to confirm that the Group continues to trade ahead of budget.I, therefore, expect pre-tax profits for the year ending 31 March 2005 to be materially ahead of current market expectations'.

The company also announced that it has acquired 2 further B737-300 ex-Lufthansa.

Dart Group shares, which have been motoring along in recent weeks, are up a further 23p (10%) in trade today. From a low 117p on 20th May the value of the company has more than doubled with the current price being 247p.


Mr Meeson also made the following comments to the Yorkshire Post yesterday.

Jet2 chief executive Philip Meeson made it clear that this latest announcement was part of a long-term expansion plan using the airline's Leeds Bradford base as a building block for future development. He said: "Our base here at Leeds Bradford is our home. It's where we started, it's where we're building a very successful low cost airline from, and it's where we will remain.
Across the Pennines it's an entirely separate operation, just like our Belfast base. The Manchester hub will have its own aircraft, crew and support staff but operationally we will use Leeds as our HQ. We have very little traffic coming east across the Pennines, so our base in Manchester will have a negligible impact on our sales from Leeds.

full article:
http://www.yorkshiretoday.co.uk/ViewArticle2.aspx?SectionID=56&ArticleID=863024

[Leodis]

Given the success of the Jet2.com base at LBA, they would almost certainly be quite willing to invest significantly more into the LBA HQs. The airline, as 682 AMSL pointed out is definately onto a 'money spinner' here at Leeds.

So what can be done to facilitate growth here?

As it stands 500 more carpark spaces are to be built in readiness for next summer.

The expansion of the apron area is in the final planning stages. This will probably be done in stages and is said to include at least six new stands.

What other areas can be exploited to facilitate additional capasity?

It is understood that the airport is in the early stages of planning a multistory carpark in the lower part of the shortstay carpark.

The airport has very few retail outlets at the moment. The passenger numbers area begining to reaching a level to sustain additional 'high street' names, thus enabling increased revinue to fund additional expansions.

The terminal has seen better days. If a new terminal is out of the question, I would like to see a completely separate arrivals area.

A new arrivals area would open up the present terminal space for extra check-in and retail units. This could be done without any significant disruption and it would also see the end of the tent structure. This would make the airport look less knee-jerk. A new arrivals facility coupled with a peer between stands 9-12 would also allow for extra airbridges.

Any thoughts on the 'Leeds Expansion'????

[Caslance]

A new arrivals facility coupled with a peer between stands 9-12 would also allow for extra airbridges. I don't think Lord Archer's doing all that much at the moment.............


I'll get me coat.......................... :ooh:

[DC10FAN]

Could the setting up of a Manchester base be a tactical move related to start-up of flights from Doncaster/Sheffield? I assume that Jet2 have studied the catchment area for LBA and found that few travellers come across the Pennines from Greater Man.(as mentioned above) but I bet the LBA catchment area spreads well into South and East Yorkshire. DSA is bound to capture alot of this traffic and hence Jet2's business at LBA could be heavily eroded. Therefore they're setting up a base at MAN to become less reliant on LBA.
I flew from LBA several times between 2000 and 2002 and the major problem(even today) imo are the transport links. The journey to the airport from most directions is painful. I know people in parts of West Yorkshire who can get to MAN quicker than LBA solely due to the poor road links. In an area of the UK surrounded by other airports(with far superior road access), this will always limit the demand/appeal at LBA.

[bmifox]

Does anyone know what type of aircraft colud fly direct to New York from LBA fully loaded? Has anyone flown this route before with a charter? Could a 767-200 or 300 do it for example?

[Caslance]

Does anyone know what type of aircraft colud fly direct to New York from LBA fully loaded? A Gulfstream V, maybe? :ooh:

[POL1W]

quote:
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Does anyone know what type of aircraft colud fly direct to New York from LBA fully loaded?
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

When you say fully loaded, do mean maximum take off weight for that type i.e with max passengers/baggage/cargo etc pluis fuel.
Then I fear nothing could do that ex LBA.
However, full passenger loads which are often not the max load in charter config (eg Continental 757s with 160/170 pax etc not the usual 235 pax) then you could be looking at Boeing 757, Boeing 767-200/300, Airbus 330-200, Boeing 737-700, Airbus 300/310.
Even a Boeing 747-200 has made it to Toronto direct with 489 pax, baggage, a reasonable amount of freight including a car!.

[Leodis]

DC10FAN.....Please read the Leeds Expansion opening thread.

.......but to answer your questions/comments, Doncasters main operator is now Thomsons. The TUI group which owns Thomsons and Britannia Airways announced last week that its UK business is suffering in decline and that cut backs are going to be made. The airline, Britannia Airways is to become ThomsonFly which is the Thomson version of a low cost airline.

The move by Jet2.com into Manchester is going to effect the IT business enormously, as low cost airlines already have else where in the country. Manchester airport has been desperate to attract new low cost business to counteract the move of passengers away from IT and subsequently away from Manchester.

Further more, if you live in West Yorkshire, before you rush out and book your summer holiday flying from your LOCAL airport in Doncaster.

(tut tut Thomsons referance your adds in the Leeds press)

Try a dummy run from home to DSA and then from home to LBA or MAN. I think you'll find the latter two the preffered option. One thing about an airport to which the only way of getting there is by using a motorway, when there are delays or closures due to accidents, basically your buggered. At least LBA has a few different ways to get to it. :rolleyes:

[ILS32]

The passenger figures for September are now on the LBA Website.Total passengers for last month 242,976.
This makes it the second highest set of monthly figures.
Still suggesting that Jet2 made a wise decision in using LBA for
their low cost operations.

ILS32

[terrywilcox]

It has always seemed to me that the biggest probem LBA has is easy access via car or public transport. As a previous correspondent from Halifax says,it is easier to get to Manchester,even though the distance is greater.
Not knocking LBA but there do seem to be more than the average diversions,through weather conditions than the norm.

[Leodis]

terrywilcox

Please check the CAA stats before you presume LBA has rather a lot of diversions.

Please also check the Leeds Expansion 2 opening thread.

But to answer your comments...........

It is easy to look at the road distances between places and work out the approximate time it will take to get from A to B.

What this doesn't tell you is the fact that most of your journey accross the pennines will probably be a 50 mph drag and stop start. The weather will probably be atrocious. Remember not to travel on a bank holiday because your journey could take as long as three hours. "I was stuck in that one".The M60 floods at the Middleton junction when it rains causing the motorway to be closed. You'll probably get stuck in a traffic jam tailback at Stockport and then it'll take you another half hour to find your off site carpark before you even get to the terminal. Not to forget, your hiking boots to get you to the departure gate when you've checked in.

DSA will probably a better run, if your up for it at 40 odd miles. Beware of the treck down the A1, this can be tricky. Mind the tractors! But hay this is Leeds' new LOCAL airport right??

The latest passenger figures prove that people want to fly from LBA and that LBA is a success.;)

[pwalhx]

To answer the last point, it was myself that mentioned it was as quick to travel to Manchester as LBA from Halifax.

The points made about the motorway are vaild on some occasions but in the main an exageration. I travel the M62 corridor regularly and providing like very route you allow for peak periods rarely have much problem. If I wanted to I could point out the many delays from Halifx-Queensbury- Yeadon which are equally common and true.


The fact remain many people don't use Yeadon because it is not easily accessed from the motorway network.

This does not stop it being a nice airport, not a succesful hub for Jet2. I personally want to see both Manchester and Leeds with busy airports, not though one at the expense of the other.

Didnt check my sepelling last sentence should be it doesnt stop it being a nice airport, nor a succesful hub.

apologies

[Going loco]

I never ceased to amazed by the 'black and white' world that some PPruner's seem to live in. The travelling public make all sorts of considerations when making purchasing decisions; Price, availability, their opinion / experience of the airline, time of departure / arrival, their experience of using the airport(s) etc. Some, especially package holiday makers, are shoe-horned into flying from airports that aren't necessarily their first choice because of preferential selling by certain travel agents. Walk into a Thomas Cook in Leeds and you'll end up flying from MAN regardless of the fact that Going Places would probably sell you a similar holiday from LBA had you walked into their shop next door. Some regular business travellers will choose those airlines that offer them the greatest perks (FF points etc) even if it is not the most convenient option. This list goes on. I'm sure that whether airport A is 15 minutes further in the car than airport B is probably all the matters for some on here, but for others it's much less of an issue. A colleague of mine from Calderdale has used Jet2 four or five times in the last 18months to commute to his second home near Alicante. He likes the departure times, the reliability and the service. To him, the drive East along the motorway and round the Leeds ring-road is not an issue. I know a couple from North Leeds who flew with Easyjet from LPL to get to a friend's wedding in Northern Ireland. On that particular day, it saved them £50 compared to Jet2 or FlyBe and for that they were prepared to tackle the M62 on a Friday evening. Its horses for courses and with such a huge population around an airport like LBA this is going on all the time. LBA will win some and loose some. All we do know is that LBA seems to fill its flights as well as anywhere else and there is clearly scope for more flights to more destinations.

[bmifox]

Does anyone know what type of aircraft are operating the Airtours charters this Winter out of LBA? I know MYT are doing the TFS, LTE the ACE and JKK the AGP and ALC.

[LBA]

Havent you answered your own question there?

[bmifox]

No...I said "TYPE OF AIRCRAFT" not AIRLINES!:rolleyes: DO PAY ATTENTION LBA!!!

[BombardierCR7]

has not the LBA./DCS thing been argued before to boring lengths...weather/roads etc...

1.8mi pax ytd ex LBA possibly means it is far from dead.

[LBA]

Very sorry BMi, promise I will read the post properly in future!

The IWD will be a 320 deffo, I imagine the LTE will be a 321 and as for the Spanairs... Maybe a 320/321.

[bmifox]

Is it just me or are we falling behind in the 'New routes and Airlines department' Over the past few months LBA has gained bmi to LCY and Jet2 to IBZ. Compare that to what the airports that 'complement' LBIA have gained.
Manchester...New Jet2 base 9 destinations, New GB Airways base with 5 destinations, bmi to LAS and the Caribbean....you can go on and on and on at Manchester!
Liverpool... Ryanair to CIA. WIZZ to WAW,BUD,KTW. Flybe to EDI,GLA,BHD,JER.
Newcastle...Ryanair to BGY, HLX to CGN, MUC. Flybe to SOU, EXT. SAS to CPH
Even Teesside is getting in on the act with Ryanair to CIA, an extra LHR flight and the Thomson charter programme next summer.
I do feel we are missing out AGAIN on all this expansion. hopefully i can see a German route on the horizon! I filled out the Germany questionnaire on the LBIA website a few months back. I got a reply last week saying that they couldn't start flights to FRA or DUS due to slot issues there, but were trying to get flights into CGN. No idea what airline was approached to operate these flights? On a plus point it is good to see that the BGI cruise charters are selling well. Next years summer charters are still looking crap though. Hopefully LBA may attract some more charters before the year is out but i doubt it! Looks like the Sunday evening IWD flight to IBZ next summer has been scrapped aswell:(
Just had a quick look at the LBIA charters list for Summer 2005. You can fly to a TOTAL of 19 destinations for your Holidays! From Newcastle you can fly to 14 destination in GREECE alone! Need i say anymore!!!

[Leodis]

Yes BMIFOX,

I Try be as positive as possible on this thread, but I agree, everything said on the Greek Summer Program thread still stands. I'd like to have a LBA Lack of Expansion thread, but I think it's all been said already.
:( :( :(

[aeulad]

Hang on a minute boys and girls! LBA has seen significant growth these past few years, spare a thought for Humberside! HUY has not had any new scheduled flights for years! The summer charter programme is shrinking due to the attack from DSA, already having lost it's Corfu flight to the onslaught. In terms of who has had the worst run of luck/bad management, LBA fares a hell of a lot better than HUY!:{

Regards

Mike

[bmifox]

Yeah...sorry Mike i must agree with you there!

[Powerjet1]

A snippet taken from today's FT, when commenting on Flybe's expansion at Liverpool.

"It is expected to announce a further expansion shortly,possibly from Leeds-Bradford, from where it already flies to Belfast"

[Leodis]

Well Aeulad,

Your right there. I'm sure Manchester purchased Humberside mearly to protect is own interests, not to develop it into any kind of regional hub.

Before B.S. came to LBA didn't he get Airtours to start flights from Humberside??

[bmifox]

Very intresting...i have just read the Flybe article in today's FT. I hope it's more French routes out of LBA. Bordeaux and Toulouse would go well out of LBA i know! During the summer i flew out of NEMA for bmibaby on a Fokker for a few weeks. I operated on the TLS and BOD flights about a dozen times. Alot of the passengers on these flights had travelled down from Yorkshire to NEMA to catch these flights so i know there is demand for more regional french flights from LBA. Does anyone know if a full DH8-400 could make TLS or BOD from LBA?

[PTH needs tarmac]

Not all the Jet2 developments are going the way of MAN. Extra weekday flights LBA to Murcia (LS207/8) at the same time as the previously announced weekend flight with the same flight number has been added for the peak of summer 05. This makes two daily flights between July 15th and September 1st.

An extra rotation to PMI for Mon-Fri has also been added between May 26th and Sept 3rd, this makes two flights on weekdays.

Jet2 also picked up a Yorkshire tourism award last week.


bmifox.

TLS sounds like a long way to endure on a DHC8. How about BRS or EXT? The shortlived BA route to BRS was starting to pick up reasonable loads just before it was axed. Access from Yorkshire to Bristol and the West Country requires long train or road journeys so there should be a reasonable business demand and lowish fares may attract leisure pax too.

PTH

[682ft AMSL]

The blurb on Flybe at LPL yesterday mentioned that:

"Flybe. is also announcing its intention to expand its services from Liverpool over the next 12 months to an additional four UK destinations and a number of French regional airports"

Depends of course whether we are talking about French regional airports in the north of France, or the South and of course what equipment FlyBe are going to use out of LPL. That said, it sounds in principle like LBA - French regional airports is an option for them if they want to tap into the market East of the Pennines as well.


Also, looks like road and rail links are back on the agenda again:

full article
http://www.thisisbradford.co.uk/bradford__district/archive/2004/10/07/otle_news06.int.html


AN INQUIRY has begun which could result in new rail links between Leeds Bradford Airport and Horsforth and Guiseley.

The potential for a new rail connection to the airport from the Leeds to Harrogate line at Horsforth, which could link up with Guiseley, is one option now being examined by Leeds\' Scrutiny Board (Development Services).

The board, which agreed the terms of reference for an inquiry into access to the airport on Monday, will also consider the possibility of creating a new road link to LBA.

The inquiry, which is being carried out with West Yorkshire Passenger Transport Executive Metro, aims to find ways to tackle the increased traffic expected as the airport expands.

Speaking after the meeting, board member Councillor Graham Latty (Con, Guiseley and Rawdon) said: "A rail link or a new road could be extremely good news, but to me the rail link is more aspirational.

"The rail link would be from Horsforth to the airport, and from what was said during Monday\'s meeting the idea is also to perhaps carry it on to Guiseley to link up with the line there.

"The biggest problem of course is going to be securing funding, because it\'s a good idea but where do we get the money from?

"When we talk about increasing capacity on the two lines we\'ve got with Metro and the people who run the trains they say they can\'t afford any more rolling stock.

"So there would have to be a serious injection of capital from central government for this."

The new road being looked at as part of a Metro study of the outer ring road, could run from the A65, near Rawdon Crematorium, over to Whitehouse Lane.

Coun Latty said: "Let\'s face it, we want both. The train would be fantastic but I don\'t know what its impact on traffic would be.

"If the money was there I\'d go for the road link because it would effectively be providing a Yeadon and Rawdon bypass and that would help all the traffic, not just the airport\'s.

682

[MerchantVenturer]

PTH

Hello again.

I cannot understand why no-one picks up LBA-BRS: two major financial and commercial centres with a bit of tourism at either end as well.

If easy can carry 20,000-plus each month between BRS and NCL and Air Southwest carries over 4,000 each month between BRS and MAN, surely there is a market awaiting LBA-BRS-LBA.

I think LBA-EXT would be largely tourist-orientated and might work in the summer - perhaps someone could copy Air Southwest's PLH-BRS-MAN and do EXT-BRS-LBA in the summer (with just BRS-LBA in the winter).

I wonder if Air Wales has looked at CWL-BRS-LBA. For some reason Air Wales has ignored the past traditions of Welsh airlines of operating flights that incorporated BRS and CWL.

[bmifox]

Just seen that Thomson have added FUE for next Summer. Flights are on a Wednesday and land at 1130, depart back to FUE at 1230. I think Airtours will no doubt share this flight with Thomson. I really don't think Airtours will have any based aircraft at LBA next summer. Looking at their website this morning they have only 8 flights a week with timings that are operated by based aircraft.
Mon-REU 0800-1355
Tue-ALC 0820-1450
Wed-FUE 0735-1705
Thu- Nothing
Fri- IBZ 0615-1235 MAH 1340-1940
Sat- ALC 0605-1235 LPA 2050-0620
Sun- AGP 0800-1445
All the other flights are "W's" in from other airports. So i can see the FUE being shared by Airtours and Tui. All the other destinations are Spannish so i think we can expect lots of AEA's and JKK's next year. The remaining flights are,
Tue-PMI 1600-1730 MON MLA- 1820-1910 KMC
Thu-FAO 1315-1420 ??? ACE- 1335-1435 FCA?
Fri- TFS 1200-1300 AEA DLM- 0955-1055 PGT
Sat-PMI 1420-1535 MYT

[LBA]

God that is an awful charter programme!

I imagine the w ACE will be operated by IWD and the W FAO by FCA as all other years. At least Thomson are picking up some flights.

Are the usual AEA/JKK/KMC flights going to happen on a Saturday and is the PGT DLM Monday flight still going ahead?

[bmifox]

LBA,
I hope the Monday morning DLM does go ahead cos i'm booked on it next September!!!
On the Airtours website the Thu flight to ACE is showing FCA as the operator, but i think this is a mistake. I think the Sat FAO has been scrapped aswell along with 2 of the Sat AEA's to PMI.This summer Thomson, Airtours, First Choice and Thomas Cook all had separate flights to PMI on Saturdays all with AEA and JKK. Next summer Thomson have nothing to PMI on Sat, Airtours are using MYT and Thomas Cook and First Choice are sharing 1 AEA!:(

[LBA]

Fantastic......... :(

[682ft AMSL]

Folks - I really wouldn't pay much attention to the charter programme at the moment. In the current climate it's such a moving target and with almost 7 months to go before S05 kicks off, it will move a hell of a lot between now and then.

MYT are clearly not going to base an aircraft at Leeds of any description if the sum total of its flying is limited to one return sector per day on certain days of the week.

TUI still haven't decided if they're putting a 738 or a 757 into DSA, so I doubt they are any closer to a decision on Leeds.

30th April 2005 is probably when it might all be sorted (probably)

682

[bmifox]

Don't count on that 682!!!

[Localiser Green]

TUI still haven't decided if they're putting a 738 or a 757 into DSA

I beg to differ, BY mainline are putting a 757 into Donny, 738 into MME.

TOM are putting in 3 x 733s and 1 x 738.

[Leodis]

Been told a memo has been recieved from Thomsons saying 4 new destinations been added to program for next summer. No other information yet.

Can anyone else shed light on this?

Perhaps they have finally realised people want to fly from Leeds!

[Flightrider]

Localiser Green, current plan is apparently for two 737-800s to be moved across from Scandinavia to operate the TeesSide and DSA based programmes for Summer 2005. To the best of my knowledge, the DSA programme is two 737s for TOM and one 738 for the IT programme.

[RobT100]

I just can't weigh up what is going on here, its ok saying dont worry about next summer's charter, but I do. And it seems a lot of other people do too.

I would like to go through some reasoning here:-

1. leeds is in a huge catchment area, a lot bigger than anywhere like HUY or even NCL/MME.
2. it is fast becoming one of the biggest financial cities in europe
3. wealth in this area is becoming far more apparent
4. why are charters to paphos , bodrum, rhodes etch made from small operations like MME when LBA dont have them? please dont any MME or HUY bod's get upset, I am only using this as a term of ref
5. does anybody know that this years FUE flight , when it arrived back from its days work, beggered off to bristol to run an overnight rhodes flight for MYT - why did this not operate from lba ? how can this have made any sense ??
6. I get the feeling there is more going on in the background that what anyone of us mere mortals think...
7. Why should I trape over the pennines to go on my hols, why dont people from newcastle have to go to glasgow (its only up the road ?? - tongue in cheek, but same principle)
8. I belive LBA have slipped up with jet2, and have merely been used. it now seems the airport will have to look after jet2, because if by any chance they go what will be left ? - and im not knocking jet2
9. when oh when is anyone going to listen to the voice of the yorkshire people ? - i often carry out a straw poll with folks and time after time people tell me they want to fly from lba. Why cant they ? what is going on, council beurocracy ? (they own it). I just do not know.
10. What about a runway extension - haha, now I am asking too much
11. I am at my wits end as you can probably tell (seems others are too, eg bmifox), all i want is a good healthy charter programme from LBA, why cant I have it.

Well not so much reasoning but enough said, ill go and get my breath back now.
Good debate !

[bmifox]

Leodis,
The 4 extra flights from Thomson's...lets see, the FUE is new on Wed lunchtime i think operating with a Spannish airline due arrival times. The FAO wasn't in the 1st editions but it's there now. They also have Lanzarote on the website but no flight details but i don't know if that's just there because they are flying there this winter? The VRN and PSA are still there in the L&M. Can't think of anymore new flights. No doubt marketing will let us know...when they have had their nails done that is;)
Sorry guys...i couldn't help myself:E

[pwalhx]

Have heard a rumour today that Jet 2 will start Budapest and Valencia from LBA soon.

Also that Wizz are are eyeing flights to Budapest and Warsaw (if Jet 2 do Budapest can't see the route sustaining two operators).

Also that BMI Baby may leave Manchester with some routes switching to mainline and the rest moving to Leeds.

The latter seems the most bizarre rumour I have heard but stranger things happen.

Also heard BMI Airbus won't arrive in LBA till late Summer and that they intend to keep some of their F100's longer than expected.

Anyone else any imput on these comments.

[ALLMCC]

pwalhx

If Baby leave MAN what will happen to MAN - BFS - bearing in mind mainline operate to BHD, will it follow that they will operate MAN to BHD?

[pwalhx]

Don't know Allmcc, thats why I said I found the Baby suggestion quite bizarre.

[ALLMCC]

Or if they transfer the BFS route to LBA, they would be competing against both Jet2 to BFS and Flybe to BHD - even more bizarre!!

[Mooncrest]

pwalhx,

Interesting stuff. I'm not sure about Budapest but I can certainly see LBA sustaining up to three or four flights a week to Warsaw or Krakow. After all, Leeds does have a large Polish population in the eastern part of the city. I don't knowif there would be any potential for these to be business routes but leisure traffic should be sufficient to attract the likes of Jet2 or the Polish locos (are there any ???).

[bmifox]

I've just seen that the Travelodge hotel at LBA opened on Friday. Does anyone know if the airport's jazz band put in an appearance or had BRS or BFS hot marketing team booked them to celebrate their new direct New York flights with Continental?:(

[ric180880]

Britannia will be basing the following a/c at LBA, DSA and Teeside.

This is the latest plan:

1x757 at LBA, their are also rummours that another 757 might be brought in at a weekend to cover extra flying.

1x738 at DSA (this a/c is currently on lease to Futura operating as EC-INP) operating the Thomson Holidays Promgramme, and
3x735s or 733s (heard rummours about both) operating the Thomsonfly scheduled programme.

1x738 at MME brought in from Britannia Nordic. A UK 757 will be moved to the Nordic region to cover the loss of this 738.

It also looks like 2x733s will be based at BOH to cover the Thomsonfly scheduled programme.

[Leodis]

I hope Thomson do base one of their 757's at Leeds. They have used a 738 at Leeds once before and it was a year of diversions due operational requirements.

Well apart from the crew being Manchester based tut tut!!:rolleyes: :rolleyes: :rolleyes:

I heard something a while back reguarding them using 2 x 757 but think I heard the same rumour last year also.:\

[ric180880]

When LBA last had a 738 based there summers 2000 & 2001 the crew where not MAN based they were all LBA based - i was one of them!!!! The diversions where mainly due to weather conditions at LBA, not operational reasons, i had a lot of them!!!! Even summer 2002 when there was a 757 based the was a few diversons.

[HOODED]

Yeah a lot of these diversions if I remember rightly were due to the -800 in BY use being unable to accept any tailwind component on 32 for aCAT3. Seems the Jet2 -300s don't suffer from this and neither do RYRs -200s. So maybe it's an -800 thing! I'd even go as far as to say it's operational because the 800 needs more runway for a CAT3 than LBA currently has due to it's CAA enforced displaced threshold.

Don't flame me it's just my thoughts, put me right if you know better.

[Leodis]

ric180880....

Have you got amnesia???

The 738 was definately only at Leeds for 1 summer not 2 as you pointed out.

I agree with HOODED entirely, which is why LBA needs a runway extension, or at least a starter extensions to takeaway the displaced threshold on 32.;)

[kala87]

Traditional charter flights to Med. resorts are a declining business at virtually every UK airport, as far as I can tell, due to competition from low-cost airlines and people preferring to organise their own holidays, rather than buying a package.

I would have thought LBA has done rather well in terms of flights since the growth of Jet2 from nothing to the present scale of operations, in such a short time.

Pity about the displaced threshold to Rwy32 and the transport links though. Methinks these are priorities to be sorted if the airport is to realise its true potential, which is surely with scheduled flights, not charters.

[ric180880]

Leodis...

No i have not got amnesia.

I worked for Britannia at LBA on the 738 - its was definatley there for TWO summers 2000 and 2001. Before that there was a Transaer A320 damped leased by Britannia for two summers.

If you dont believe me i'd be happy to show you my rosters.

Please check your facts before accusing me of amnesia.

Thank you

[LBA]

Ric is spot on - I flew on a 738 two summers in a row from LBA in 2000 and 2001 to Corfu both times With Britannia. The year before that I flew on an A320 which was EI-TLO.

[ric180880]

LBA...

Thank you very much for backing me up

KR

Ric

[LBA]

No probs mate :)

[coasting]

The BY -800s main problem at LBA for the first summer was wet runways and increased distances due to new aircraft type introduction into fleet The relative LDA's not lending themselves to greatly displaced thresholds etc. The second year of ops had most of the previous years problems ironed out, and -800's appear to operate now with the likes of AEA, FUA, RYR and PGT, without problems.

[Jetting2]

Sorry to change the subject.

The airport is now running a questionnaire based on views about the possibility of this new service.

Have the marketing teamed realised that with all the other developments recently in the uk they could be lined up next?

Post your views.

[bmifox]

JETTING 2
Just seen the "Would you fly to New York from LBA" on the LBIA website! I almost p***ed myself laughing.
The marketing muppets can't even get flights to Grecce or Cyprus and now they want to go for NYC no doubt becauce BRS and BFS secured flights there. One main difference there though...the marketing teams at BRS and BFS know how to do their jobs!!!

[wawkrk]

The airport has found another way to make big money.
Besides the nail bar,I noticed a group of guys leaving the
"multi million pound Travelodge" and they seemed to be walking towards the airport probably to buy some food and down a few pints of Tetleys. They did not really look like pilots who who had become fed up with the likes of the Marriott. I know of at least one councillor who seemed to think flight crews would be rushing to stay in this "prestigious development".:\

[BombardierCR7]

Let's be fair with this, the concept of a direct US destination is nothing new to the LBA management. Various overtures were made a number of year ago to several US airlines namely Continental, United, American, and one other that I can't remember of the top of my head. Continental at the time were interested in the concept of operating small aircraft from UK regionals due mainly to the fact that CO at that time were not part of a major alliance and lacked the ability to operate into the lucrative LHR market due to the bilaterals. After a number of discussions etc between the airport and CO, LBA ended up being one of a list of 5 airports in the UK that they were considering (and I stress considering) operating from. The plan at the time was to use 737-700's in a majority C class layout into these airports. 9/11 came along and obviously ruined Continental's plans. Ironically, a few years later, 3 out of the 5 airports on the original Continental list have recently gained the service. The important thing to note is that LBA maintained a good relationship with Continental that still exists today (and for info, also with Emirates and PIA).

When the original discussions took place, this was obviously done at looking at the airports market/throughput/infrastructure at that particular time. The market is obviously much different now(even though the infrastructure may not be) but over a million Jet2 pax out of LBA is just one indication of the willingness of people to fly from their local airport. I believe that it is a very positive sign that the airport are beginning to adjust/redo their business case for a direct US link, not just because EDI, BRS and BFS got it. Something or nothing may come of it, there may be much more behind it than we know, we need to wait and see, but you've got to be in it to win it, as they say.

It's very easy to kick the airport in the orchestra stalls when it is being reactive to a situation which is often the case, but let's not diss them too much when they are being proactive.

[Leodis]

Firstly ric180880...... I still think the 800 was just for one year, and an A320 for the other, but if you say 2 years that's okay. Perhaps it's me with the amnesia!:confused: :confused: :confused:

Back on the topic of flights to New York, The airport management is adamant that the LBA can sustain flights to the US. The wording of the questionaire is quite carefull to explore all options of getting a service up and running. For one, it was interesting to see the question "If the flight made a stop at another airport for an hour en route to pick up passengers, would you still use the service?" This question would answer any airlines doubts about using a relatively short runway for direct services.

I have always said that the greatest asset that the LBA has is the fact that "Leeds is the largest financial centre outside of London." (quote from the Leeds Yollow Pages p11 and Leeds City Centre Management bulletins.) The Americans are big on 'business' and I think that this will play a far greater roll in future years at LBA, than we have ever seen before. :D

The use of a service via another UK airport, whilst this is not ideal, it could be used to make a case for extending the runway and it would also be a huge icon to facilitate ferther development.

Sorry BMIFOX bud, but I have to agree with BombardierCR7 on this one.:)

Coincidentally BMIFOX..... didn't the LBA do a questionaire about London City not long ago, prior to BMI announcing their new service? Could be, that they've finally pulled their finger out?????

[HOODED]

Direct transatlantic flights from LBAs relatively short runway!

I think you'll find BRS has a shorter runway than LBA and CO are doing it from there are they not? On the day the current runway opened did a 747 not go direct to Canada? Runway 14 has a TODA of 10,000ft plus which is why some longer flights request this for operational reasons even with a slight tailwind.Granted 7380ft is not long but look at BHX, put down a couple of 500ft starter extensions and look what you can suddenly do.

[Leodis]

HOODED

True, Bristol also has a 'relatively short runway', but it is clear that the Leeds perameters are a little on the marginal side because of the chevin. I don't doubt that the airport can have regular services across the pond and as the Leeds annual passenger figures continue to rise, this will make an atlantic service look more attractive.

It appears that there is something brewing behind the sceens, maybe the airport is on the verge of some sort of major development. The annual 'we're expanding again' sign looks like it isn't going to make an apperance this winter. Could it be that there is something bigger in the pipeline for next year, or are the resources all been put into marketing now?

[Going loco]

Isn't the effect of the chevin on the 32 climb taken into account in the declared distances?

TODA - 14: 3,169m 32: 2,279m

compared to Bristol

TODA - 27: 3,016m 09: 2,071m

The constant sniping at the LBA marketing team is now getting a bit tedious. I think criticism of their efforts to attract and sustain IT business is justified, but that does not mean everything they do is worthy of ridicule. Feeder services into hubs form the majority of the long-haul scheduled services that operate outside of London and there is plenty of scope for Yorkshire to join the bandwagon. A CO feed into EWR is as good as anywhere to start seeing as they have shown some appetite for UK expansion and if LBA are being proactive in this regard, then good for them.

I think there is a real window of opportunity over the next year or so for LBA to kick-on and build on the success of the last 18 months. Bombardier is right that Jet2 have shown clearly the size of the market around LBA and the appetite of that market to use its local airport when the flights are available. Inevitably, other airlines are now looking to see if they can get a slice of the action and there's a real chance of converting some of this interest into new services if the airport play their cards right.

loco

[AlanSinfield]

In July 2000 I flew on G-BYNC 737-800 and in Jul 2001 I flew on G-BYNB also a 737-800. On both occasions it was to Palma

So definitely the 737-800 was based for Both summers.

Incidently on the second occasion we were diverted to Manchester due to FOG (In August!)

[LBA]

I flew G-BYNB LBA-CFU-LBA in 2000 and G-BYNB in 2001 LBA-CFU-LBA! So they were DEFINITLY there for two summers.

[Leodis]

So, it is I who has amnesia......eek!!!!!:confused: :confused: :confused: :confused:

The constant sniping at the LBA marketing team is getting a bit tedious

Everyone is entitled to their own opinion!

[bmifox]

Going loco,
I'm sorry if you think that "the constant sniping at the LBA marketing team is getting a bit tedious" and i am to blame more than anybody who writes on these pages, but somtimes our (my) moans are heard. Only today the Marketing team announced a new publisher for LBAirmail. If you remember a few weeks back we criticised the current magazine for been full of adverts for local curry houses etc etc and not much info about the airport. Well it looks like that is changing! I am sure that they are good at some aspects of their jobs but when you look at BRS and what they have achieved with their marketing department you must see we have a problem!
Well from today i will not slag them off for the next 6 months...not a word, not a dickie bird! HONEST. i will just let them get on with what they do best...?????:uhoh:

[Leodis]

This is the 'Leeds Expansion' thread, in my eyes, expansion means development and development is linked with marketing, is it not?

The marketing team do seam to be making some progress now, so we will have to just wait and see what 'develops'.

It is good to see they're bringing a new magazine out, what BMIFOX said was spot on. Lets hope the new mag sells the airport to prospective new airlines and sells the airlines to its prospective new punters!

Passengers pick up an LBAirmail to see what flights are NEW, what airlines are NEW and what NEW destinations they can fly to from their airport!!

Lets see if they can stand on their own two feet for a while, without us having to nudge them all the time! :ok:

[Leodis]

Just noticed the LBA website is showing Gran Canaria again for next summer! It is still early days but it is showing it as a based aircraft.

Some of the other threads for other airports have an IT flight listing on them for next summer. Does anyone have any sort of full IT listing so far for next summer at Leeds? BEST L/CONTROLER maybe???;)

[LBA]

Yep we still have Gran Canaria, on the LBA Yahoo group it was shown the MyTravel group flights would be operated by a Britannia 737-800, with a much reduced number of flights. I think LPA was the only place apart from the Costas and Balearics they are operating to next year.

Oh and a FUE flight, the official LBA website not showing Thomsons FUE flight yet operated by an a/c on a W pattern, probably one of the Spanish charter carriers.

Here it is:

REUS MON 08:00 MON 13:55 BY B738

ALICANTE TUE 08:20 TUE 14:50 BY B738
PALMA TUE 17:30 TUE 16:00 MON A320
MALTA TUE 19:10 TUE 18:20 KMC A320

FUERTEVENTURA WED 07:35 WED 17:05 BY B738

FARO THU 14:20 THU 13:15 FCA B757
ARRECIFE THU 14:35 THU 13:35 IWD A320

IBIZA FRI 06:15 FRI 12:35 BY B738
DALAMAN FRI 10:55 FRI 09:55 PGT B738
TENERIFE FRI 13:00 FRI 12:00 AEA B738
MAHON FRI 13:40 FRI 19:40 BY B738

ALICANTE SAT 06:05 SAT 12:35 BY B738
PALMA SAT 15:35 SAT 14:20 MYT A320
LAS PALMAS SAT 20:50 SUN 06:20 BY B738

MALAGA SUN 08:00 SUN 14:45 BY B738

[POL1W]

I reported in another thread about seeing slots for LBA - Gatwick, and MAN - Bournemouth applied for, in the respective slot database computers. These flights both have identical timings, which made me wonder if there was an ulterior motive in this. i.e. was the real application MAN- Gatwick, with the other two points being there as a smoke screen.
Over the weekend an additional mid afternoon LBA - LGW, and a MAN - BOH flight have appeared, again, with identical departure and arrival times. As the "flights" are planned to start in JAN 05, I think an announcement should be forthcoming shortly.
Are they going to be pleased at LBA, with a new thrice daily LGW flight?, or dismayed by an operational ploy used to deceive other companies into believing what they see, while upsetting airport authorities at the same time. I specify LBA here in particular, as they are the ones who provided Jet 2 with their fine start and launch pad into Lo-co operations.
Out of interest, there are 7 flights a day in each direction by BA from MAN to Gatwick, offering very lo-cost fares as opposed to Heathrow.
Myself, I can not imagine MAN airport authority allowing a 14 flights a day operation by flag carrying BA, be undermined by 6 lo-cost flights myself.
On the other hand LBA has no flights to Gatwick, with only 4 premium rate flights a day to Heathrow by BMI, and 4 London City flights a day starting next week, which after any initial publicity start-up cheapies go, will probably not see much change out of 200 quid.
So, let us hope that my fears are unfounded, and that Jet 2 will lead us with their cheap fares into London and the Brighton area, and that they remain the dominant lo-co operator at LBA.

[Lucky Strike]

Will this be the third operator to operate LBA-LGW?

[BombardierCR7]

I think LS will be at least the 5th operator on LBA-LGW, Genair, Air Ecosse, Capital, CityFlyer/BRAL, and one would hope Jet2, but that isn't the point that POL1W is making.

POL1W has the same concerns as I do. Jet2 seem to be pointing to do the dirty on LBA with this one. I sincerely hope we have got this wrong, it seems ill advised for Jet2 to upset the LBA management at present, especially with so much loco interest hovering around LBA at the moment.

[Going loco]

FlyBe wanted to take over the LBA-LGW route following Citiexpress' pull out, but BA would only release the afternoon and evening slots - not the morning one. I wonder how much of this MAN vs LBA thing with the LGW slots is behind the scenes brinkmanship. LBA management would walk over hot coals to get a LGW service and I have no doubt that this desperation will have filtered through to the Jet2 camp. I can't quite fathom what Jet2 would be trying to get out of the LBA people by implicity threatening to launch MAN-LGW though, unless as Bombardier says, it's all to do with the other loco boys and girls that are paying visits to LBA these days.

All I do know is that it would be a huge public snub to LBA if Jet2 do go on the MAN-LGW route instead of LBA.

loco

[Leodis]

What a heated debate!

I can understand the feelings of everyone with talk about a new Jet2 Gatwick going to Manchester rather than Leeds. Arguably at the end of the day the LBA authorities are in an equally good position to bargain and negotiate their corner.

I feel Jet2 will be wanting to fill any gaps in the Leeds market before opening a new route from Manchester to Gatwick. I know that Jet2 have wanted to serve Gatwick from Leeds for a while but i'm not sure if their priorities have changed with the opening of their Manchester base. A low cost service to London would be a high profile route served by any operator. If another airline operated a low cost service from LBA to LGW, it would be sure to open the door into the LBA loco market.

To coin a phrase, 'at the end of the day', Leeds was the birth place of Jet2 and it has been the Leeds customer base that has lead the rapid expansion of Jet2. A move to transfer any services from LBA to MAN would be suicidal for Jet2.

I believe at least one route will be announced over the next week or so from LBA.;)

[wawkrk]

There is often talk about the runway at LBA, particularly about the so-called bump in the middle.
Check out the pics on key publishing forums,commercial aviation - Prestwick today.Stunning photos of what appears to be a skate boarders paradise! Also, the obstruction of the Chevin in comparison is a mere blip. Amazing what the camera can do!

[bmifox]

I know i said a few weeks back i wouldn't take the p*** or slag off the marketing department for 6 months but i feel i must share this with you all.
This morning i was on the 1st flight from LCY to LBA. At LCY the balloons and champagne were there for all 13 of us passengers to share before take off. I got chatting to a marketing lady ( i don't know if she was from LBIA or bmi).I asked her what type of aircraft we were flying on upto Leeds...i knew full well it was an ATR-42. Her reply brought a smile to my face. "you are travelling on a DASH-50" she told me:uhoh: Oh i thought to myself...i've never been on 1 of those before!
BTW 18 pax went south on the 1st flight and 13 return. The other 3 flights south all went with less than 8 on board. Early days though. The aircraft is really nice inside....leather seats, loads of legroom. The livery is a bit strange, with 2 palm trees going up the tail and a beach down the side with the words Manchester to Barbados, Antigua and St Lucia. Nice for a LBA based aircraft!!! :( Does that mean we will see an A3-30 at MAN with LBA to London City painted down the side???

[PTH needs tarmac]

bmifox

Give LBA Marketing some credit. They have managed to post a Press Release on the website about the new service on it's first day of operation rather than 2 weeks later as was the case with the Jet2 CDG service.

http://www.lbia.co.uk/newsstory.php?storyid=20041101

Some important questions need to answered though -

bmifox - 1) were you one of the two wearing the Beefeater costumes?
2) what was in the goodie bag?
3) did you get a certificate too?

re LBA-LCY advertsiing on bmi A330. Hmmmmm I doubt it. Isn't advertising of bmi services ex LBA illegal?

PTH

[baps]

I'd say it's a miracle that lba website has posted a press release about any other airline other than Jet2. Sometimes you get the impression they're the only one who operate out of leeds.

[682ft AMSL]

I think PTH's criticism was levelled at bmi rather than LBA. I've been amazed at the lack of their advertising for the LCY route but assumed that this was because the route was 'selling itself'. The appalling passenger numbers in the first few days suggest this has not been the case, and so what exactly are bmi playing at? Given the huge volumes of passengers that GNER shift between Leeds and Kings Cross, it should not be difficult to attract a small % of that market into the air. This is especially so given that a disproportionate amount of the business market for Leeds-Kings Cross starts its journey in the northern suburbs of Leeds and the outlying affluent areas round Harrogate etc and should therefore find driving to/from the airport far easier than driving to/from the centre of Leeds

The secret to pulling this traffic off of the train will be down to the schedule, the fares and the advertising. The schedule is OK'ish, but I'd have preferred to see the whole thing kicked off an hour earlier. Arrivals into LCY at 07:30 and 10:30 strike me as better than 08:30 and 11:30. The fares range from some very attractive restricted economy day returns of £80 (fully inclusive) to some scandalous £320 flexible day returns which means there's nothing pitched in at the £150 mark, which is the cost of a standard open return with GNER. The advertising is virtually nonexistent. So add together a slightly iffy schedule, a fare structure that shifts from £80 to £300 with no middle ground and the fact that no one knows about the service, and what do you get? Well this morning, 1 business passenger and 12 in economy!!

FlyBe adopted a similar approach and lasted 5 months (and they were filling their peak services). At this rate, bmi will be lucky to achieve that.

682

[Frankfurt_Cowboy]

bmifox,
more importantly, were you sat next to the bmi marketing lady???

[bmifox]

FC
No i kept well clear...i don't get on with marketing people as you will no doubt know. After the DASH-50 remark i just drank my champagne and walked away.
PTH,
What's in the goodie bag...well a bmi mug, EMB135 model, toy bmi bird, pen, post it notes and my certificate.

[INKJET]

bmi have never spent much in the way of promoting new routes, but they rarely shut down routes they start, Knock is the only one i can think of? some may point at MAN/NWI & ABZ/NWI but i understand that was all about giving Eastern something to think about.

LCY advance booking are not bad for a business route, 4 rotations a day is perhaps one too many, but time will tell, i wish them well.

Does anyone know how CDG is going for both Jet2 & bmi? when will Jet2 start selling Paris on their Summer time table, i can't get a price after Easter with Jet2.

When do Ryanair plan to take the 200's off the Leeds route, they are so noisey

Cheers

[Leodis]

Anyone know whats goin on?

The NEWish supa dupa check-in facility has had its lights turned off, looks like it's for the winter!!:O

Looks like it could be used as a function room after all:rolleyes:

[POL1W]

I believe they are using the new check in area this morning. Looks like it is used for TUI and MYT or anything checking in larger than an A320. So I don't think it has been mothballed for the winter !.

[bmifox]

Just seen the loads for the new LBA-LCY flights for today. Starting to pick up a bit from last week anyway!
BD503 6/15 BD505 4/10 BD507 -/11 BD509 2/17
Sorry but i didn't get the northbound loads.

[PTH needs tarmac]

It seems as though Leeds City Council, under its new leadership, may have seen some sense at last. The following is an exert from a letter to the Yorkshire Evening Post by Coun Leader Mark Harris (Lib Dem).

A study into the pros ans cons of privatisation should be completed sooner rather than later. The desicion might be against but at least a study will have been held. If the outcome is for privatisation (in one form or another) then will come the task of persuading the other four West Yorkshire Councils.

-snip-
Coun Atkinson also accuses me along with the Liberal Democrat and Conservative Groups of wanting "to sell the airport off to make a quick profit." Nothing could be further from the truth, I want to see decisions taken with the best interest of the airport taken into account, not stick to keeping it under public control at all costs as the Labour Group apparently want to.

Our group has called for a full investigation of all the different options on the future of the airport and we will take any decision based on the best interests of Leeds and the rest of the city region.

YEP 5/11/04
-snip-


PTH

[Leodis]

Well it looks like POL1Ws theory that Jet2s main hub and expansion is now going to be from Manchester!!

Jet2 have announced their new 'route master' Leeds-Gatwick service will actually now operate from Manchester and not Leeds as previously expected.

This is a huge blow for Leeds Bradford, not least to the flying public who have backed Jet2 all the way to the bank. I sincerly hope that equal expansion will take place at Leeds soon with Jet2.

The flying public of Leeds/Bradford and West Yorkshire deserve better than this. If Jet2 cannot provide the services of which we all expect than I for one would welcome another Leeds loco.

Jet2s success has for the large part been brought by people choosing to use Leeds Bradford not Manchester. I welcome Jet2s expansion and I hope they do well, but not at the expence of Leeds.:( :(

[POL1W]

I believe it is the slot conference over in the USA this weekend, so there is a good chance that some new routes could be announced shortly from LBA. On the other hand there maybe more from MAN too.

[gayrugbybloke]

Great news for Manchester - sorry to hear that it is such a negatiove blow for LBA though, the cities of Leeds and Bradford so desparately need the air links more than we do really.

[Leodis]

Question - Do you really think that this is possible now?

With the rate of Jet2 expansion at Manchester, I for one don't see a great deal happening now from Leeds.

I still think a Budapest service is going to be announced very shortly from Leeds, but is isn't exactly going to be a great supprise.

Jet2's PMs words that "Leeds is and will continue to be the Building block to ferther expansion" is basically a load of :mad:




The city of Leeds, the largest financial centre in the UK outside London.;)

[Flightrider]

This really is appalling. After all of the rubbish that Jet2 have spouted about Leeds still being their true home, they are providing the 8th, 9th and 10th flights of the day between Manchester and Gatwick when Leeds Bradford has no service at all. There is demand for the route and I am aware of a number of people who have written to Jet2 to suggest so. The subterfuge with holding the Gatwick slots for the Leeds route has just added insult to injury.

I can only hope that their chickens come home to roost, BA put 737-400s back on all MAN-LGW flights, drop the fares and declare an unholy jihad on Jet2. They deserve nothing less after this type of behaviour.

Unfortunately, knowing BA, there probably is no reasonable prospect of them doing so.

[craig wilson]

Find it very strange how jet2 have announced manchester to gatwick and not leeds/bradford. There is so much demand from the yorkshire region. Manchester already has Gatwick links so would of thought leeds was deffo in the running!
Guess the people of yorkshire will be treking over the pennines once again!
The city of Leeds is such a large buisness hub now and by far the financial capital of the north of england so to have an airport like it has is a joke!
The team at LBA really need to wake up because they are missing out and so are the people of yorkshire.

[Leodis]

I will certainly not be trecking over the pennines once again!

I would even use my pet hate Doncaster Sheffield before traveling to Manchester!:ugh:

BMIFOX What do you make of all this??


The city of Leeds, the largest financial centre in the UK outside of London.;)

[ILS 119.5]

Typical LBA, they do not care about the customers. All the management want to do is look after themselves. The local councils who own the airport are not clever enough to realise what is really going on.
BMI FOX you are the one with the finger on the pulse, what do you think?
I personally think that all the senior management should be advised to leave and a more proactive management team put in place. I know for certain that I could make LBA a better place for the people of Yorkshire, the shareholders, and the staff ( who are extremely hacked off).

[Going loco]

ILS 119.5 - believe it or not, this was Jet2's decision, not LBA's. You can take a horse to water, but you can't make it drink and if they wanted to use the slots for MAN then what could the LBA team do about????

So tell us how would you run the place to make it better for the people of Yorkshire? We're all dying to know.

[ILS 119.5]

If I told you about all my commercial knowledge and business sense then you could do it. Let's just say that I could. With my contacts and experience within the aviation world then it can be done, believe me.

[Andy_S]

I just can't believe what I'm reading here.

Jet2 have a presence at LBA that most other regional airports would give their eye teeth for. And yet, for daring to start services from Manchester, they're damned to high heaven. Oh the sheer impertinence!!! Dark mutterings of letting the public down, accusations that they're not providing the service "we expect of them", rather tasteless wishes for them to suffer a "jihad" at Manchester.

Am I the only one who thinks that a lot of this, the dozens and dozens of pages about LBA expansion or greek charter routes, is actually driven by resentment that MAN rather than Leeds is the major airport in the North of England?

[GrahamK]

Agree with Andy_S on this one.
A holy jihad? Sheesh thats going a bit far is it not? :suspect:

[coasting]

Yes- I agree. I think those passionate LBA supporters need to cool off a bit, especially with comments like that.
Jet 2 have done wonders for LBA and will in the future. As has been said, there are many larger airports than Leeds that would give their right arm for what LBA has got.
Lets wait and see what the Slot conference in Boston brings next week. So what, Gatwick may be done from Manchester. I'd rather go to Budapest or Berlin, Rome or Cologne. Anywhere is better than rip off London.!

[PTH needs tarmac]

Andy S and GrahamK,

With respect, I think you have mis-read the context of the word "jihad" as used by Flightrider.

He suggested that BA may drop their fares in response to Jet2 competing with them on the LGW run and though their stronger general market position, deeper pockets and interlining capability etc etc and the route might prove unviable for Jet2. Please don't start a discussion about the legalities of this, we all know it happens in reality.

It was not suggesting that Yorkshire residents are about to revolt and stop using Jet2 at LBA. I think some of the upset stems from the deceit of having the slots for LBA-LGW and MAN-BOH then performing a quick two-step and ending up with MAN-LGW.

Maybe we have been anticipating an LGW route too keenly so we are now feeling disappointed. There is no suggestion Yorkshire folk are about to stop using Jet2 and you are correct to say that LBA has been fortunate to gain so many services from Jet2.

MAN has been, is and will be the major airport for the North of England. However, we still want LBA to reach its potential and provide the level of services demanded by the residents of W. Yorks and we don't think it is there yet.

The lack of services to LGW, Germany, major charter destinations etc are those areas that we feel are the main discrepancies and can be most realistically addressed.

PTH

[GrahamK]

PTH, who knows, maybe Jet2 will start an LBA-LGW flight soon? And perhaps BA will drop their fares on LGW-MAN (Althought they seem pretty cheap at the moment anyway)

[pwalhx]

Well said Andy_s and PTH needs tarmac.

Jet 2 have done wonders for Leeds people could continue to back them, if they announce a Gatwick service from Leeds, which hopefully they will at some point maybe that will stop the complaining.

[Leodis]

The people of Leeds/Bradford and West Yorkshire have backed Jet2 all the way to the bank

Manchester Airport truly is a world class airport, I have no doubt that they will continue to do well, but the point is that Leeds Bradfords catchment has supported Jet2 and allowed it to grow so rapidly.

I just don't understand, when Manchester already has good London airlinks, why the new service should go to them. :confused: :confused:


The city of Leeds, the largest financial centre in the UK outside of London;)

[wawkrk]

I have posted this before but it is quite interesting.

UK Cities Population
London 7,074,265
Birmingham 1,020,589
Leeds 726,939
Glasgow 616,430
Sheffield 530,375
Bradford 483,422
Liverpool 467,995
Edinburgh 448,850
Manchester 430,818
Bristol 399,633

[Gareth Blackstock]

wawkrk - thanks for the figures, I'd not realised that the population of MAN was so low. It just shows that a Yorkshire (LBA or one of the other airfields) to London service could be a viable prospect and it surprises me that still no airline flys the route.

I used to work at cityflyer and remember the days of a LBA - LGW route on the old Shorts 360.

Gaz

[Andy_S]

"I have posted this before but it is quite interesting"

It's also quite misleading........

I don't know how the boundaries were defined for measuring the populations of these cities - geographic?, political? - but I'm pretty sure it's inappropriate to consider the City of Manchester alone. Just look at the size of the urban conurbation of Greater Manchester. It's vast. A quick look at a road atlas suggests to me that you could fit Leeds & Bradford into Greater Manchester 2 if not 3 times. There are lies, damned lies and statistics - you've got to look at the bigger picture.

This is the resentment thing again, isn't it?

p.s. A quick check via the Office of National Statistics shows (for 2002):

Metropolitan County of Manchester: Population 2,513,000

Metropolitan County of West Yorkshire: Population 2,089,000

[Leodis]

Ferther more, on top of the 726,939 inhabitace of Leeds (3rd largest in the UK) over 2,000,000 live in West Yorkshire alone, with over 5,000,000 accross the whole of Yorkshire.

Over 11,000,000 people live within an 80 minute drive of Leeds Bradford International airport and that is before the poor road connection argument starts again! Leeds itself probably has the best motorway connections of any city within the UK because of its natural strategic location.;)

Forgot to mention, the Government has stated its plans are to make the whole of West Yorkshire part of a Greater Leeds.

The city of Leeds. The largest financial centre in the UK outside of London.;)

[pwalhx]

Leodis are you not confirming Andy_s's point. The populations of Metropiltain Manchester i.e. the county Of Gretaer Manchester is 2.5 Million. The proposed Greater Leeds would be 2 million.

Anyway the population of the relative cities is irrelevant. Manchester draws from a catchment area from the Scottish Borders to the Midlands and Leeds doesn't.

I am sorry to say the fact that Leeds is the largest financial centre outside London is irrelevant.

The fact is that more people choose to use Manchster than other regional airports.

The other fact is this trite argument over population detracts from the real purpose of this forum to discuss avaiation.

Lets get over Yorkshire/Lancashire rivalry, accept the facts and get back to what we should be discussing.

[Frankfurt_Cowboy]

"Forgot to mention, the Government has stated its plans are to make the whole of West Yorkshire part of a Greater Leeds"

Seriously? There'll be civil war, glad I'm out of it if they are. I'd not want to live in a greater L**ds.

[Leodis]

More people CHOOSE to fly from Manchester rather than other regional airports

No, more AIRLINES choose to fly from Manchester, NOT people!

Given the choice, the majority of people from the greater part of West Yorkshire would choose LBA, just as the majority of people in Merseyside would choose LPL and Sheffield WILL choose DSA before traveling to Manchester.

I really think the regional airports should be given more credibility, Jet2 has gained its credibility at LBA just as Easyjet gained its credibility at LTN and LPL. The investment tails away by these airlines and transfers to the larger airports for the more prestigious image. This does nothing for the traveling public.

Anyway, if Jet2 had announced a new Leeds service at the same time as the new Manchester-Gatwick service, it would have gone almost unnoticed. There does seem to be other issues behind those boardroom doors!

[wawkrk]

It was not my intention to stir things up.
I was indicating that there should be a big demand for flights to Gatwick when you look at the population figures.
When you consider how many Gatwick rotations per day from Manchester and zero from LBA. Not only that,Leeds has always supported a big disproportionate number of business travellers compared with charter flights. City Flyer did not realise the full potential on this route because initialy they used a shed. This was dire in the winter time. Figures picked up with the ATR and and then I think the plan was to introduce 1-11s. Then I believe BA wanted the slots for other flights if I am correct and the service was dropped.

[Leodis]

Yes, I understand your comments on the previous Gatwick service to be true. Towards the latter end, passenger figures had been very good. It would be interesting to know how many passengers actually used the Leeds-Gatwick flight, bearing in mind this was a business flight.

When the service was operated by British Regional Airlines, the main problem that I could remember is that the service was so popular, transiting passengers often had their bags left behind because the aircraft was so full!:uhoh:

[bmifox]

This is a real kick in the teeth for LBA! Jet2 have been fantastic over the past 20 months with their flights from LBA. Look at next summer with our 3 daily flights to AGP and double daily to many other destinations, Jet2 are the best thing to happen up there in a long long time. Now everyone knows my very strong views on the management muppets up there ( don't worry pprune police i'm not going to name names...they know who they are!!!) but this time it's not their fault! ( like they had any idea what was going on anyway!)
POL1W told us all what Jet2 were planning on the 25th October and to be honest i didn't believe it at first untill i looked into it. Yes, Jet2 have really done the dirty on LBIA. I hope the muppets knew about this aswell? I wonder if they still read pprune? They have been licking Jet2's arse for nearly 2 years now while all the other airlines don't get a look in. Well i hope this is their wake up call. Flybe, Easy even baby at a push could all operate from LBA to upto a dozen different destinations from LBA to what Jet2 offer. I do think Jet2 will expand at Leeds...Newquay, Jersey, Almeria,Tenerife etc could all do very well but the dirty tricks they have just played has annoyed many people on here.
BTW...Talking about another airline for a minute bmi had 90 pax in business class yesterday morning on their EDI flight. Now if that's not worth a A319 on this route then my names not BMIFOX!;) ;) ;)

[GrahamK]

How is it a kick in the teeth for LBA? Perhaps they seen a bigger market for MAN-LGW compared to LBA-LGW. Surprisingly airlines do their homework :rolleyes:

[POL1W]

" Surprisingly airlines do their homework"

Even after doing their homework, it's surprising what airlines will do with a gesture or two, and a little arm twisting!

[GrahamK]

Point taken POL1W :)

[Speedbird777heavy]

With respect to all at LBA, you should be grateful you still have a link with LHR, let alone trying to get LGW. The Liverpool Daily Post has just started a drive to find a carrier to operate LPL-LHR again, along similar lines to achieving the VLM service to LCY which commenced in Feb this year. Good luck to them!

[dbromle]

Amazing what you can achieve when two banks merge and suddenly have a need to ferry clerks between headquarters eg from Leeds to Edinburgh.
Would be interesting to see what homework was done prior to launching the London City service. I just cant see how it's going to compete with GNER. OK they're giving seats away now but must be a cashflow nightmare. If they put fares up to a more viable level there will be even less reason to use the service.
Most users' overall journey times will be the same, the train is more comfortable, you can use laptops etc, and if you miss one there will be another in 30 minutes or less. Now , Gatwick or a Bristol/Cardiff round the houses service might actually offer real advantages in travel times

[682ft AMSL]

dbromle - for the southbound market, it depends where you're going to in London and where you're starting your journey from in the North. A disproportionate amount of the business types on GNER are from the Harrogate / Ilkley / North Leeds region which means you've got 30 minutes to get into central Leeds to catch the southbound train. If your destination is Docklands / Canary Wharf you can add another 30 minutes onto that to get across from Kings Cross. Add to that 15 minutes grace to make the various connections along the way and your looking at a total door to door journey time of 3:15 southbound and 3:45 on the return (due to more stops on the northbound trains). 7 hours travelling time for a day return.

Compare that to 20 minute drive to LBA, 25 minute check-in, 1 hour flight, 15 mins to Docklands, that's 2 hours. So 4 hours in total for a day return and a 3 hour saving vs the train. Obviously, the further / closer you live to central Leeds and the further east / west of central London your destination is, the higher / lower this time saving is.

The fare you'll pay to bmi is dependant on how flexible you want to be and how far in advance you book. How much your prepared to pay is very much a subjective decision based on wealth and time pressures.

No one pretends this is an all out assault on the GNER southbound market, but rather an attempt to capture the time conscious business types that live much closer to LBA than Leeds rail station. Whether they are accurately targeting this market with their advertising is another matter! The introduction of the Embraer135 onto the route and the opening of the DLR extension into City should help shave a few more minutes off the journey and help things along a bit.

682

[ILS 119.5]

I think you will find that LBA-LHR is one of BMI's most profitable routes. I know this because of talking to BMI employees.

[INKJET]

I gather that the LCY route is already close to or at breakeven after just a couple of weeks, the costs of the wet lease ATR are half that of using a 135 and block time is just 5 minutes more. I do agree about the railways, but i guess it all depends on where you live and work. Certainly the staff from First Direct seem to like the service. The important thing is the split between Y&C class and thats where they are quids in!!

Either way the ATR is going to be here until the end of next Summer at least. I also hear that the Eastern 145 is heading for a bmi paint job and going to either Leeds or NEMA with the new 135 going into EDI ? What chance EDI-Munich

Burt

[14 loop]

What about an EDI - LCY, with the ERJ135 up against the 328 of Scot Airways.

Why though would EZE give-up their 145 to bmi regional?

Thought they were sworn enemies out of NWI!

Good to hear that LBA - LCY appears to be getting some good (C) loads. Lots of financial institutions around Granary Loaf these days - a bit like Leeds!

[flybe.com]

Leodis - why is Finningley a pet hate of yours?

[dbromle]

682
I do understand that they can get firms to pay £300 for staff to day trip Edinburgh-I have done it myself several times, and have to hand it to BM for turning round the shambles left by UK and then Gill
But there is a clearer journey time benefit, especially if the destination is to the Gyle area.
Having used the City service, I feel the suggested times by air are a little optimistic. By the time the 0720 has been on a tour of North Kent and Essex awaiting its turn to land, then been pushed back on stand before passengers can join the bus to the terminal, you are only walking out at around 0850. To catch the 0720 allowing for parking, check in etc probably means leaving a home in Ilkley around 0615. Alternatively catching the 0610 train and changing into the 0700 at Leeds gets you into Kings Cross around 0900. I realise Canary Wharf is nearer to City Airport than Kings Cross, but the overall time difference isn't all that great especially when the other aspects are factored in. The inevitable diversion to Teeside or Manchester probably balances problems with the overhead wiring.
However if there is a sufficiently large niche there prepared to pay the full price, good luck to them. But I only paid a fare approx half the GNER second class fare this week and both flights were very lightly loaded. If they're breaking even at that then I am very surprised
Time will tell. Either way credit to them for giving it a go

[Leodis]

Seen a mini-cab last week in BMI livery advertising the Leeds to London City, so at a guess most mini-cab trips will be within say 15 miles of Leeds centre:hmm:

[GrahamK]

I thought the T3 ER4 was busy doing the ABZ-NCL-SOu and v.v route twice daily? :confused:

[INKJET]

Indeed it is, but i gather they are getting another SAAB 2000 to play with verrrrrrrrry soon! Anyway the next 135 coming ain't moded for LCY so it ain't going near the place anytime soon. I reckon NEMA-CDG looks most likely, but hey with bmi you never know.............cos they don't know!!! India is far from a done deal!! try booking a ticket

Burt

[Leodis]

The following was taken from the Dart Group PLC fanancial statement by Jet2.com boss PM

For the most part, it's what we already know, but one or two possible hints between the lines!:cool:

The company's Jet2.com scheduled low cost services have also experienced higher than expected demand at its Leeds Bradford and Belfast International bases. Over half a million passengers were flown between the UK and city breaks and Mediterranean sun destinations during the six months to 30 September 2004.
Capacity at Leeds Bradford and Belfast International Airports is being increased for the summer of 2005 in order to serve more destinations with greater frequency.:ok:

Someone from Jet2 mentioned a little word in my ear today, a little island in the atlantic.

So maybe we should just wait and watch this space?

[GrahamK]

And I thought Jet2 were the anti-christ because they were starting a base in Manchester? :ouch:

[bmifox]

...a little island in the Atlantic
LBA to Ascension???

[GrahamK]

I thought Funchal was pretty obvious...unless there was undetected sarcasm in the last post

[INKJET]

I would have thought that Maderia is not really a LoCo destination? apart from the fact that its a long flight its a tad up market, bit cultral like say Milan 7 that didn't last long, there are some time shares, but i don't see it from Leeds

[bmifox]

Yes GrahamK...i was taking the p***! How quick of you to catch on;) Tenerife is the little island that Leodis is talking about.

[GrahamK]

bmifox...still thought a LBA-FNC would work

[bmifox]

I think that FNC would do well on a weekly charter from LBA GrahamK. As INKJET points out Madeira is quite an upmarket holiday destination and with Harrogate and York been close to LBA and their large elderley "well off" population i would of thought this route would go very well...as would Naples. Not sure if Maderia is ready for a low cost invasion just yet! Mighty fine runway exstension though.

[INKJET]

I am confused? i thought the whole idea behind LoCo was about using your aircraft a lot, at least 3-4 rotations a day, i have only once visited Tenerife, but it was a long way!! i think from Manchester about 4.30 hours, so with a turnaround thats got to be a 10 hour day, does anyone one do LoCo flights that are that long. Funchal is about 30 Minutes shorter, but if i remember correctly they put a limit on the number of beds on the island after agreeing to the runway (on stilts) extention.

Its a lovely place for looking at flowers and walking the Laverda's but there is no beach, the nearest involves going to another island and whilst Funchal is charming, its not the sort of place that would welcome a bunch of lasses from Barnsley, bent on getting l**d wearing daft pink hair bobbles & spice girls (sic) tee shirts with " Filthy spice" & dirty spice" no, that much more of a Prauge or Dublin ( or was until they stopped em smokin)

If i were running a LoCo out of Leeds i'd hammer Spain and the South of France with lots of flights and go Thrice weekly services to the likes of Milan, Naples, Rome,Corsica, Lisbon, Oporto, Bergn, Oslo to build up these routes, come on JET2 you've had a great start, live a little

Burt

[14 loop]

Don't believe FNC stands a chance, TFS is what LBA needs.

Yes, most loco routes are shorter sectors of upto 2h 30mins. However this doesn't stop them performing longer trips if there is demand, witness EZY that run out to Athens from the likes of LGW / LTN.

Dep LGW 0645 / Arr LGW 1455.

Of all the routes of the ill-fated Planetair operation ex LBA, the TFS flights were filling seats throughout the winter. The significant 'seat only' market to TFS is now under served from LBA and there is no doubt leakage of Yorkshire passengers to other airports primarily MAN. Jet2, if their aircraft had the legs from 32, could I believe make a twice weekly TFS rotation work (commercially). Certainly their fleet utilisation strategy could cope.

[GrahamK]

Dont forget FlyGlobespan also do long flights for a LCC...GLA and EDI-TFS etc and soon Cyprus which is pushing on 5 hours each way

[Leodis]

.........Market Exploitation!

[bmifox]

Looks like LTE will be doing this flight on Wednesday afternoons for Summer 2005. Also AEA will operate the LPA on Saturday nights instead of an MYT based aircraft. Can't see anything else new at the moment.

[bmifox]

Air Southwest have just announced they are starting flights to Bristol, Newquay and Plymouth from LBA from 11th April. Looks like it's NQY-BRS-LBA-BRS-NQY twice a day M-F and 1 on Sunday. To travel to Plymouth you must change aircraft at BRS.

[GrahamK]

Seems like PLY-BRS-LBA 1 x Daily and NQY-LBA twice daily

[MerchantVenturer]

According to the Air Southwest website timetable there are two NQY-BRS-LBA rotations per weekday and one Sundays initially.

PLH pax will change at BRS for LBA - presumably using the airline's PLH-BRS-MAN service to reach BRS.

Makes sense otherwise there would be too many a/c doing the PLH-BRS leg if the MAN and LBA routes both commenced at PLH. Also brings Cornwall into the picture for links to the Yorkshire area.

Now just wait and watch Ryanair do a LBA-NQY!

[LBA]

Sorry if this sounds dumb... Accoding the to the Air Southwest website, it says the Plymouth service arrives at 08:50 and then departs at 18:45, this cant be right, what have I missed? Its all very confusing!

Great news though :)

[MerchantVenturer]

That's right. The morning NQY-BRS-LBA service arrives LBA at 0850. PLH pax will have boarded the flight at BRS having travellled to that airport on the morning PLH-BRS-MAN.

The reverse occurs in the evening with the 1845 ex LBA.

In the meantime the aircraft that arrived at 0850 returns to BRS and NQY before going to DUB and back. After that it returns from NQY to LBA via BRS ready to operate the evening flight back at 1845.

That's how I read the Air Southwest timetable anyway.

They definitely say PLH pax for LBA have to change at BRS.

[LBA]

Ah right get ya now :)

Anyone heard about a proposed FlyBe base at LBA to be announced on Tuesday? According to the LBA group, the Travel Trade Gazette said that bases at NWI and LBA were to be announced, anyone know anymore?

[bmifox]

LBA,
From what i have heard flybe will operate 2 flights a day to SOU and daily to EXT from LBA but will not base an aircraft there. I think a couple of French routes may be in there aswell.

[LBA]

Cheers for that, that will be more good news for LBA.

[Mooncrest]

Morning all,

It's excellent news about Air Southwest. I really hope they are able to make a go of these routes and I believe they will succeed.
I gather BACX were beginning to get satisfactory loads on their Leeds to Bristol service just as it was chopped and the Newquay run will be good for the tourist trade. I hope there's enough room for the surfboards in the hold of the Dash 8.

If Flybe are thinking of gathering pace, this is even better, especially if they can undercut Eastern on the Southampton run. Last time I flew there and back from Leeds it cost me a small fortune. On that occasion the J41 was full up (Friday afternoon) but I don't know what machine Flybe would use. Maybe it would be something like Leeds-Southampton-Bergerac with a Q400.

The parking apron at Leeds is going to get seriously crowded at times next summer. Still better packed than deserted :ok:

[Leodis]

Mooncrest,

You made a good point about the apron space. It is going to be packed next year. I heard someone mention a major expansion of the parking apron next year but nothing has been announced:cool:

Lets wait and see anyway, Tuesday is now in my diary!!:ok:

[Jetting2]

Just noticed this morning Exeter and Southampton are in the booking system for LBA on the flybe website.

Cant see anymore details yet.....

[aeulad]

Looks like the West country will be the place to be in 2005! LBA is doing very well for adding new routes and operators on the scheduled side. Newquay, Bristol and Exeter all added at the same time!

Are Jet2 planning to announce any more new routes from LBA for summer 2005?

Regards

Mike

[INKJET]

Does anyone know when Jet2 Summer Paris seats are going on sale? their web site shows nothing after the 5th of April 05. Is this route going out of Manchester?

I did hear they were after some more slots for Paris. It would be a shame if they and bmi pulled off Paris next year. I only go two or three times a year, but it saves driving over the 62:(

Cheers

Burt

[682ft AMSL]

The Paris thing seems to be an issue with utilisation. The LBA programme as it stands can be done with 6 / 7 aircraft on some days, rising to a requirement for 9 on Sunday evenings.

Fitting in CDG with the current timings needs a 9th a/c on Tues, Thurs and Fri between mid-July and end of August (when it would conflict with the 2nd daily MJV flight) so ulitimately I suppose Jet2 will be weighing up whether this is something they can accomodate given their other plans.

I rather suspect it would be easier all round for them if they could get an earlier slot as they have a spare machine lying around at LBA until 11:30 each day. If this failed at IATA, perhaps they're working behind the scenes with other airlines trying to exchange slots (although swapping a lunchtime slot for an early morning one, doesn't sound a great trade).

Didn't realise bmi were pulling off CDG by the way.

682

[bmifox]

Looks like the Flybe routes are SOU and EXT. SOU to start 1 daily flight on 12th May and EXT again 1 daily flight on the 16 Jun.
Just noticed that Eastern Airways are adding an extra flight to SOU from LBA from the 10th Jan. Flights operate M-F depart LBA at 10.00 land SOU 11.10 and return from SOU at 11.40 land LBA at 12.45.

[MerchantVenturer]

Looks like the West country will be the place to be in 2005! LBA is doing very well for adding new routes and operators on the scheduled side. Newquay, Bristol and Exeter all added at the same time!
A bit like buses, nothing from LBA to the west country for years, then four come along at once.

I know the BRS, PLH and NQY rotation is really the same flight, with PLH pax changing at BRS.

I believe that BRS-LBA is a viable route anyway: two major and vibrant business centres with a bit of leisure thrown in as well. This route showed great promise when it was tried on at least two separate occasions in the past ten years or so (half heartedly in my view), the most recent being three or four years ago when BACx was running down much of its operations.

However, EXT, PLH and NQY seem to me to be in the main leisure routes, although of course Plymouth is an important business centre. FLYbe may be encouraged by its apparent success with NCL-EXT.

It will be interesting to see how many business pax in the Plymouth area opt for a non-stop flight from EXT rather than a flight from PLH that entails an a/c change en route, with the same question applying to those flying in the opposite direction. Fares appear likely to be about the same, judging from Flybe's record and Air Southwest's already announced fare structure. Air Southwest's two daily rotations offer the possibility of Plymouth business pax and others being able to go to the Leeds area and back in a day.

Perhaps the losers in all this will be Virgin Trains.

[682ft AMSL]

MV - the timings of the connection in BRS don't allow a day return for either LBA or PLH originating pax. Of course, with FlyBE being 1 x daily from EXT, nor do they.

Still, you can't really do a day return from that part of the world on either the train or by car either!

682

[MerchantVenturer]

682

The Air Southwest website timetable and booking engine says you can do PLH-LBA and back in a day.

The flight leaves PLH at 0630 and arrives LBA at 0850 with a change at BRS. The return leaves LBA at 1845 and arrives PLH at 2050 with a change at BRS.

This is Monday to Friday only.

The Sunday programme is one rotation only, so obviously you cannot do it then.

I was aware that it was not possible for LBA pax to do PLH and back in a day.

Flybe apparently will also fly on Saturdays, something that Air Southwest does not apparently intend to do at present on their route.

Not being an aviation professional I don’t know what the percentage of potential day return travellers would be. I can only speak from personal experience in that my wife and I have flown from BRS to EDI, GLA and NCL (all with easyJet) for leisure day trips on several occasions, and each time have seen several other couples and groups going the same thing. We shall do so with Air Southwest from BRS to visit Leeds, a city about which we have read many good things of late. It’s a pity that the reciprocal timings from LBA to BRS, although allowing a day trip in theory, do not really permit enough time in the west country to make it worthwhile.

Furthermore, my son regularly flies the EDI, GLA and NCL routes (and others) from BRS on business day trips, as do others of his acquaintance. Without the availablilty of day trips some of his business plans would have to be re-jigged so that he would stay overnight at, say Newcastle, but would make fewer trips overall. Having the day option is usually more cost effective in terms of his time, although there are times, such as this week, when he will stay ‘up north’ for several days.

I don't want to sound as if I am nit picking. The important thing is a sudden opening up of the entire west country from the Yorkshire area and vice versa. I can see both airlines succeeding with these routes. I hope they do. Full marks for the initiative.

[PTH needs tarmac]

The West country "buses" have indeed arrived all at once.

However, to say that flybe is opening a "major base" at LBA seems inaccurate as no aircraft will actually be based here. Both of the SOU and EXT flights originate at the southern ends. One flight a day might be right for EXT but I would think that SOU would deserve two flights on week days. The day return business pax will still have to use Eastern and pay their non LoCo fares.

The flybe press statement says 280,000 seats will be offered from LBA, though they do not indicate what period these will cover. As the schedule stands there will be 780 seats per week day, fewer on Saturday and Sunday, when both new routes start. At that rate it will take more than a year to operate 280,000 seats worth. Is there something else in the pipeline?

PTH

[INKJET]

Sorry i didn't mean bmi "were "pulling off the route, rather that if things didn't go well for bmi on the Paris route(following Jet2 new operation) then they might well feel they could use the aircraft elsewhere and with both BHX & NEMA being talked about (baby & Regional) it could well be that they use Paris slot elsewhere. How ironic if Leeds ended up with no Paris flights!!

Cheers

Burt

[LBA]

Seems like the press release states that FlyBe will announce more flights early 2005, fingers crossed!

[Leodis]

The YEP reported than the Flybe business plan was to introduce more destinations into Europe a year into the new business strategy at LBA. It was reported that additional flights to France are high on the priority list.

All the best to your new services FLYBE & Air SOUTHWEST:ok:

[flyerz111]

http://www3.flybe.com/news/0411/29.htm flyBe are going on Leeds to Exeter and Southampton from May.

LBIA to Exeter should be interesting after Air Southwests Bristol/Plymouth to Leeds announcement. The Leeds Southampton route must be one of the "eastern" (small "e") routes mentioned by BE a few weeks ago - I noticed Eastern (big "E") last week added a 4th daily Jetscream service on the route from January 10th so it must be a good 'un.

Where will everyone park at Leeds?

[Leodis]

Where will everyone park at Leeds?


Underneath the nice brightly lit Cookridge tower!!:rolleyes:

[10 DME ARC]

Sounds like Southwest rushed FlyBe into announcing the routes, starting May and June next year, they still haven’t got the summer schedule out yet!
:)

[INKJET]

Time for LBA to dust off its plans to put a another taxy way in to save the back track. Looks like more "your No 4, speed back to 180"

It will be very interesting to see how the Southern arrival tracks fit in with Donny departures next year. Does any know if there are plans to change the airspace over South Yorkshire?

Best of Luck to Flybe & Airsouth west and a warm welcome from all in Gods own county

Cheers

Burt

[Mooncrest]

Be nice to see some routes into France and Germany, such as Toulouse, Lyon, Berlin and Dusseldorf. Rather see jets than props doing them though, especially on the longer trips. However, to get the routes and their markets established is a big step in the right direction. Sorry to thread creep but...we could really do with some more IT flights now. There, I've said it ! :ok:

[bmifox]

Well said Mooncrest! i really must congratulate the team at LBIA for their no doubt hard work in getting Air Southwest and Flybe to start and increase their operations from LBA!
I wonder if something gave them a kick up the arse this Summer?;)

[INKJET]

I think you certainly contributed to developements at Leeds, well done! But afore everyone is pop'in champange its worth remembering that at least in Flybe case these flights are half a year away and Flybe can be flyby night if things change, They set up camp at Leeds before, walked on LCY then cleared off to Belfast, they are rather prone to cancel flight as well!! just watch wed and thursday when the Leeds FZFG sets in!!

I am just so glad Jet2 have Cat3 kit (and the crews have their cars in the car park!!)
Cheers

Burt

[bmifox]

I know it's still early days but the Airtours website now shows 5 flights from LBA next summer to REU, PMI, ALC, AGP and IBZ with AEU flight codes. The timings are all for morning departures from LBA on Fri, Sat, Sun, Mon and Tue landing back early afternoon. Trouble is i can't find them doing anything in the afternoons or nights! Only thing i can think of is that the times will change and these 5 flights will W into LBA from elsewhere. The daft thing is that there is enough work to base an aircraft at LBA for 5 days already. On Fridays Airtours charters AEA to TFS and PGT to DLM. On Saturdays AEA to LPA and MYT to PMI so if Astraeus took over these 4 flights that should be nearly 4 days of work. Maybe bring back the LCA on Sunday/Monday on a smaller aircraft (737-700). Again on Tuesdays Airtours currently charter KMC for MLA and MON for PMI. Why not just keep Astraeus for an extra day to operate these 2 flights and maybe bring back a night HER that operated for the past few years with TV on Tue evenings.

[LGWAlan]

bmifox

Great efforts on improving LBA before I go any further :)

As I see it at present the LBA charter schedule from MYT for S05 is as follows:

Mon
REU 0800-1120/1220-1335 AEU TBA

Tue
ALC 0820-1200/1300-1450 TBA
PMI 1730-2100/1430-1600 AEU TBA
MLA 1910-2330/1600-1820 KM TBA

Wed
FUE 1330-1730/0830-1230 LTE377/6

Thur
ACE 1455-1845/0930-1335 IWD3450/49

Fri
IBZ 0615-0950/1050-1235 AEU TBA
MAH 1340-1710/1805-1940 - TBA though it does tie in to an afternoon rotation following the IBZ - possibly the AEU?
TFS 1300-1730/0740-1200 AEA208/7
DLM 1055-1720/0710-0955 PG TBA

Sat
ALC 0605-0945/1045-1235 AEU TBA
FAO 1420-1715/1015-1315 TBA
LPA 0010*-0440*/1740-2210 AEA296/5
PMI 1535-1905/1240-1420 MYT391/2

Sun
AGP 0800-1150/1250-1445 AEU TBA

Taking this one step further, I see the full charter times for S05 as:

Mon
REU 0800-1150/1250-1445 AEU TBA
ZTH 0745-1315/1415-1555 BY148A/B
DLM 1735-2345/0045-0415 BY197A/B
DLM 1030-????/????-0930 XQ161/0
BOJ 1830-????/????-1730 LZ ?

Tue
ALC 0620-1020/1120-1310 BY310A/B
ALC 0820-1200/1300-1450 TBA
TFS 1440-1915/2015-0025 BY366A/B
PMI 1730-2100/1430-1600 AEU TBA
MLA 1910-2330/1600-1820 KM TBA

Wed
FUE 1330-1730/0830-1230 LTE377/6
MAH 0730-1105/1950-2125 BY213A/B

Thur
ACE 1455-1845/0930-1335 IWD3450/49
FAO 1420-????/????-1315 FCA2412/1
FAO 0700-1000/1100-1350 MYT5614/5664 - can't see this operating
PMI 0730-1100/1940-2115 BY277A/B

Fri
CFU 0700-1215/2230-2355 BY089A/B
IBZ 0615-0950/1050-1235 AEU TBA
MAH 1340-1710/1805-1940 TBA
TFS 1300-1730/0740-1200 AEA208/7
DLM 1055-1720/0710-0955 PGT TBA

Sat
ALC 0605-0945/1045-1235 AEU TBA
FAO 1420-1715/1015-1315 TBA
LPA 0010*-0440*/1740-2210 AEA296/5
REU 0650-1010/1110-1220 BY468A/B
AGP 1350-1755/1855-2050 BY076A/B
IBZ 2225-0205/0305-0440 BY587A/B
PMI 1645-????/????-1545 AEA638/7
PMI 1535-1905/1240-1420 MYT391/2
VRN 0900-1220/2020-2140 KL7851/2
PSA 0700-1040/1110-1240 BD7991/2

Sun
PMI 0705-1035/1925-2100 BY329A/B
AGP 0800-1150/1250-1445 AEU TBA
IBZ 1815-????/????-1715 IWD TBA
VAR 1900-????/????-1800 LZ TBA

[Mooncrest]

Nice to see Zakynthos again after some ten or eleven years' absence. Just out of interest, is BY planning on using a 767 again for part of next season ? Only, I seem to remember the parking apron at Zak ain't all that big and a 767 could occupy a lot of room.

Bmifox makes some interesting points about Astraeus doing more
for Airtours than currently planned. It'll certainly make a change to have them around.

I've read today that Flybe is looking at the likes of Bergerac and Bordeaux possibly for summer 2006 from LBA. They'll probably find they've been beaten to it by then by someone else ! Don't like to speculate but on my travels through the airport today, I couldn't help noticing several large cardboard boxes bearing 'bmibaby' labels. It probably means absolutely nothing of any significance whatsoever but you never know. :confused:

[INKJET]

I wouldn't get your hopes up, bmi's fight against other carriers amounts to no more than sending staff around with "baby" bomber jackets. baby is looking more and more still born! i reckon Flybe have announced more new routes in the last week than the bmi group have all year.

I think they are set to be let down again by the CCA this Friday on the India routes. Some outfits punch above their weight other don't seem to be able to land a punch at all, you judge!

Cheers

Burt

[NEW-CREW]

I flew with Jet2 recently and on their pasenger survey there was a question as to wether people would be interested in seeing a German route... ie Munich, Berlin. Also noticed on the LBA website that theres another survey thing asking wether or not a route to New York would be useful.

Interesting stuff, especially the New York route, dont know who would offer it though.

[HOODED]

I believe Continental have expressed an interest in the past. I'd have thought a Pakistan route would have come before New York though judging by previous rumors. Jet2 to Germany is only a matter of time and if they don't get a move on they could be beaten to it by another carrier.