Stripes.........Gold or Silver?

[In-Cog-neeto]

Now that I am a professional instructor when can I wear stripes without being riciculed?

Having spent all this money to get this far I would like to be seen as a pilot and not as a prison officer or security guard!

However it seems that PPL instructors are not 'worthy' pilots!

What would be wrong with say 3 silver stripes (it's O.K for Cabair students!)

Anyway, what is the official line on wearing stripes and how many/colour etc

Any ideas anyone

Incog :)

[This message has been edited by In-Cog-neeto (edited 23 April 2000).]

[Fokjok]

Get on with the flying and leave the braid for when you've got a proper job.

[40degrees]

I agree totally incog, QFIs should be recognised as professionals - without them aviation wouldn't exist. If that means stripes rather than canary wings or the such then good for you.

But gold not silver (or as airlines call it "platinum" hmmmm)and 1 when an AFI, 2 when QFI and so on...

keep up the good work!

[A and C]

strut around looking like a south american general and you become the but of much **** taking ,get on with the instructing and keep your head down you still have a lot to learn......but then so do i and i,v been in this flying game for 20 years.

[HungryPilot]

I think anyone crawling into a Cessna 150 with gold stripes on his shoulders should be taken out and shot.

What a ridiculous site that is.

Stateside, pilots were laughed at getting in Cessna 310's with stripes on their shoulders, but we had to.

------------------
It's all fun and games 'til someone gets poked in the eye.

[DB6]

Incog, you can wear stripes, yes. But without being ridiculed ? I fear that may be too much to ask.

[GoodGuy]

What does it matter, 1 or 4 stripes, silver or gold. Surely it is a sign that you have reached a standard that Joe Public respects.

The maxim of Capt. having 4 and the F/O/ 2 or 3 seems to work for the airlines, why not for other branches of OUR industry?

We should all promote ourselves!

GG

[This message has been edited by GoodGuy (edited 23 April 2000).]

[In-Cog-neeto]

It seems we do not take ourselves seriously!

What is wrong with stripes?

We ARE professional!!

Incog

[Capt Homesick]

When I was instructing 509, the CAA insisted we wear 4 stripes. It was extremely embarassing to fly a PA28 with all that gold braid- not to mention the extra runway needed to cope with the extra weight. I think it was just company policy that AFIs wore 1 stripe, QFIs 2, and BCPL instructors 3. Ours not to reason why...

[A and C]

Cabair may want thear students to turn up with silver rings and ties but i,m pleased that the Ex-bcal flight engineers dont put up with this bull****.

[This message has been edited by A and C (edited 23 April 2000).]

[Checkboard]

Go to a golf coach and he will be wearing golf shoes and a golf shirt.
Go to a tennis coach and he (OK or she) will be wearing tennis gear.

The opinion of the other pilots doesn't matter at all (especially as you usually hold the same opinion of all the sparkles) but you are trying to attract customers, and hopefully impress & reassure them of your professionalism.

I wore sparkles while instructing, and thought nothing of it, but when work finnished I ripped them off. Never be seen in a shopping centre with bars (even if you are a Space Shuttle commander!) :)

[A and C]

I have found that the flight training outfits with all the gold stripes are the most agresive at sales and are usualy more interested in parting the punters with there cash than teaching them to fly.

I would not like to have to instruct for an outfit that uses restrictive rules to increase the flying time of a student.

Some places do manage to mix smart look with a high standard of training and not have the gold stripe BS (the wycombe air center dose this very well........and befor you ask i dont have eny financal conection to them.)

[BEagle]

We give all our instructors a polo shirt with our logo, their name and the word 'Instructor' on it. (new one to come later this summer when we can get the new logo made up, chaps!)

We leave airline, military or ex-military rank and any associated ego at the entrance to the Club.....in the rubbish bin.

[pondlifescum]

...along with pre-flight briefings, continuity of instructors, advising the student when his lesson has been cancelled, finishing the licence in less than 60 hrs ...

[Straight & Level]

I instructed at a flying school for 2 years before I got a, ehem, real job. We all wore white airline shirts with black trousers and NO stripes. It looked professional without looking conceited. Seemed to impress the RAF as we hed a Flying Scholarship approval that required revalidating every year. BTW it was the hardest type of flying work I have ever done. Despite what a lot of none-instructors say, it is still one of the best ways to get in the right seat of something a little bigger!

[kalik]

Instructing is all about how you interact with your student . Some people prefer the more regimented style of schools such as Cabair , others the relaxed attitude of a club environment . If you want to be recognised as a professional I would suggest demonstrating ability , competence , and intergrity would be a good start .

Sadly , there are a lot of folk out there who are driven more by a desire to dress up than a passion for flying . I flew with a guy once who asked if he were to obtain a PPL , how many stripes could he wear , and did I think he would pick up many women in the pub ? ( I said 5 and yes , but only if he was accompanied by me ! )

If you feel that you have to impress your students with gold bars , you probaby lack confidence in your ability to teach .

All the best .

[henri's psychiatrist]

Oh dear.......

And to think that part of the therapy for people with an "irrational" fear of flying is to impress upon them how well balanced, modest and self-assured the guys up front are compared to your average neurotic bod.

Perhaps the stripes help ward off nueroses, and so it all works out in a funny sort of way - yep, that'll do, professional integrity restored!

[BEagle]

'pondlifescum' - you have already been invited to direct your allegations to those responsible so that, if they have any substance, appropriate remedial action can be taken. However, so far you have apparently decided not to avail yourself of this offer. In view of the tone of your remarks, perhaps you would prefer to reconsider your membership if you feel unable to write to the management of this RF/FTO? If your occupation is indeed as you state on your profile, then I'm sure that you will have no difficulty in finding another training organisation and paying twice as much for your flying training as you currently do.

[ppr]

Sorry, but I think you probably will look more like a security guard or hotel comissionaire with your stripes, Incog. Surely braid is really for the military to aid discipline and identification of leaders in the heat of battle - hardly the scenario in a C150. Anyway its all bull**** in a civilian job. You must have a low opinion of the general public if you think they are impressed by uniforms. Other professions in civilian life dont insist on scrambled egg and braid - I cant remember the last time I saluted my GP, accountant, lawer et al (well, perhaps my bank manager is an exception) and they get respect because they do the job well - not because they look like a recently self-appointed South American president.

[Wee Weasley Welshman]

Just a thought. If you are teaching someone to fly who is perhaps older than you, used to or still does earn more than you, is taller than you etc. etc. then sometimes you can have difficulty maintaining the necessary instructor/pupil authority gradient. I´ve never really found it a problem but then I look more like 30 than 20. However I know that some younger looking instructors, particularly where an airline sponsored hot shot knows he´s going to be flying a Boeing in 6 months feeling on top of the world student is involved, do have problems and take grief off students that they should not really accept. In such circumstances the gold plated shoulders can help at a sociological/psychological level.

Never worn them myself but I can see an arguement for their value.

WWW

[G-SPOT]

want to wear Three Stripes whilst instructing in a Cessna 152.......

Multiflight Leeds........

Where they keep the tarpaulin handy to cover up the Robins that seem to have off runway excursions...

Personally I instruct in a pair of jean and a wooly fleece, Id rather come across with a professional attitude and leave trying to impress the student till you can do something impressive..... scruffy - maybe ,happy students benefiting from my instructors passed down knowledge - definetely........

[Fokjok]

I really have trouble believing that this topic has warranted what almost amounts to serious discussion.

Please, all those who wish to 'dress up' before flying, have a look at yourselves in the mirror, and try to take a long, slow, reality check.

If you do happen to be at a school which requires the wearing of uniform, then you'll have to put up with the conditions of the job. Some (eg Cabair - where many of today's better airline pilots cut their teeth) have their reasons for uniforms. Others are merely glossing over the cracks.

Much PPL instruction in the UK is woeful in content and quality - getting dressed up isn't going to help, but sorting out your flying and teaching will.

And no-one looking at you in the car on your way home will think you're big or clever, either.

[Gear up Shut up]

You got there before me Fokjok!!

Can't believe this thread really - go for the hours, they're more important.

But just to add my pennies worth - I take mine off when I'm driving back from the airport because I feel like a tool.

GuSu

[BlueLine]

RAF aircraft seem to fly OK when the pilots only have one or two stripes. Occasionally, the Captain had just one whilst the the Co-Pilot had 3. Confused the civies!!

There is a saying Gold Braid and Bull****!

[azzie]

we don't wear stripes but we do have epaulettes with our aero club logo printed on it. they do look a little more professional. some are embarrassed to wear them but i don't really mind. it's not a status thing, its just looks a little better i think. the best thing i find is that when walking down the street (yes i wear them outside the club, because I am a pilot after all and i feel that after all the hard work i put in, why should i feel ashamed of being one?) is that little kids think you are a policewoman and they behave themselves quick smart!

I wouldn't want to wear stripes until i get my airline job, but people who don't consider themselves 'real pilots' simply because they are still in the process of getting where they want to go, need to get a grip. you may not fly airliners, but you are still a qualified commercial pilot, just at a different level.

------------------
"if there is no peril in the fight, there is no glory in the triumph"

[ppr]

Azzie,
I wouldn`t let your ppl students know that after paying all their money and time for training that they will not be "real" pilots.

[Hudson]

Talking about rank. I was a lowly Sergeant flying Lincolns and Mustangs many years back. Nowadays it makes me laugh to see all the gold wings and braid around Cessnas and Pipers. A bloke on my course was a Flying Officer captain of a Hercules in the circuit at Fiji. His rank meant one thickish stripe on his green flying suit. His co-pilot was a really big bloke with the one skinny stripe denoting the rank of Pilot Officer - sometimes known as Bog Rat. Bog-rat had 300 hours.
Well, they are downwind right circuit when a PanAm B707 is downwind left circuit. Obviously conflicting. Bruce (C130 skipper -and that was his real name) tells the 707 to land first. But Bruce's co-pilot missed the call and turned inside the 707 forcing the 707 into a go-around.
Choice words from the PanAm 4 bar captain.
10 minutes later, with both aircraft parked near each other, the pumped up 20,000 hour PanAm captain (very short in stature) and sporting more braid than Idi Armin himself is spotted striding purposely toward the C130 whose crew are blinded by the tropical sun reflecting off the scrambled eggs on his Sandhurst type hat.

Bruce delegates the big Bog-Rat to descend the stairs of the Hercules and greet the approaching scowling highly plumaged short one. As the passengers climbed into buses they were treated to the priceless sight of a large 21 year Air Force Pilot Officer with one itsy bitsy faded blue stripe on his shoulder telling the short highly plumaged PanAm senior captain to **** off or get thumped. After much fist waving the Pilot Officer and the Four Bar captain stalked back to their respective aeroplanes.
Rank meant nothing - it's character that counts...and size helps.

[Flight Deck]

I didn’t pay $40,000 and spend 3 years studying just to be able to put silly strips on my shoulders. I could have got them for $30.00 at any pilot shop long before I got my licence.
Unless you’re flying an airliner, what difference would it make? I never had a FO in my C-310.

[This message has been edited by Flight Deck (edited 27 April 2000).]

[rusty]

HeHeHe, I take mine off on the drive home too,..and I fly for an Airline!

[chicken6]

A and C

Nobody mentioned the South American General look until you. Read the post. We're only talking about stripes, not the full suit dripping with woven braid, bird poo on the hat and shoulders etc.

Fokjok

Without someone to teach people like your esteemed self there would be no pilots and no jobs, real or otherwise.

GoodGuy, In-Cog-neeto, Checkboard, Azzie

I agree! Without us there would be no flying, only bus and train driving. We create the chance for anyone in the world to come and enjoy the art of flying. As a first step towards this enjoyment, the prospective artist needs to know they are in a safe place. What better way then to impress the new flyer than to say "I've passed the same exams as a commercial airline co-pilot, and because I regularly teach this stuff, I probably know it better than they do. If there is any place to be that is safer than with me, or that can teach you better then let them show themselves".

Part of the flying experience IMHO is knowing that your Instructor can always bring something new into your flying. If we can we do, so why hide our qualification? We need to make people aware of how good we are so that they keep flying. NOT BECAUSE (A and C) we need to part the punters from their cash, or because (Kalik) we lack confidence in our own abilities. Rather it is because we DO have the confidence that we can (at least some of us can) say non-verbally "learn with me and you will enjoy this because I know what I am doing". Sure, the ability, competence and integrity are valuable but I don't think they are a good place to start because you need to spend some time with people to know whether they possess these qualities.

ppr

Lawyers do have uniforms, they're called suits. Would you trust a lawyer if you walked into an office where tidy clothes or not didn't seem to matter? Or an accountant? Or a doctor? Just because it isn't "scrambled eggs and braid" doesn't mean it's not a uniform. There are certain expectations in society and one is that a pilot with a valid commercial license will have some sign of rank. See the comments from WWW.

If you don't want to put your occupation in your profile, who are you to criticise the rest of us about self-worth? Don't you feel secure of what you are doing, or are you not even doing it any more?

FWIW, I had a bigger stripe when I was a student than I do now. The difference is the colour - it was a thick blue one (as an intake identifier) when I was learning, now I've got two thin gold ones.

If you can read this, thank a teacher!

Safe flying

[Airprox]

I agree with BEagle, My old flying club had a polo shirt with the logo and instructor writen on it. Smart enough but not too formal for a flying school.

I always take my stripes off in the car too - and I too fly with an Airline

[In-Cog-neeto]

If we wish to be treated seriously by others then perhaps we should take ourselves more seriously!

Some of the views expressed so far can only help to maintain the view that we are the 'lowest form of life'!

Personally I think that instructors should look smart and professional.

Our students look to us for training and guidance, the least we can do is dress and act in a professional manner.

As for stripes I would be happy to wear them. I am a professional pilot and very PROUD of the fact.

Thankyou for your contributions everyone.

Happy landings

Incog

[2R]

There is nothing like freedom of choice.Clean cut and smart.
I flew with a part timer who worked full time at a funeral home,he had dirty nails and I couldn't help wondering if the dirt was part of one customers at the embalming shop.A very real distraction and my last flight with him.
Marks and Spencers is smart enough.Try not to look like a fashion victim.Strong eye watering aftershave are also a no-no.
A learning enviorment is what the instructor is trying to create.
Choice is nice.Blue skies

[azzie]

for a start, ppr, you got completely the wrong end of the stick regarding my post. it took me a few minutes to work out what you were talking about. didn't mean to leave out ppl's as they are real pilots too. my point is exactly that though....we are all 'real' pilots once we have a licence. i agree with igcogneeto...if we continue to behave like the scum of the flying world (as instructors), then we will be treated like it. take pride in what you do. just because you don't fly an airliner doesn't mean your flying is a waste of time.

as for those airline pilots who confess to taking off the stripe on the the way home...get a grip. i certainly don't spend my days strutting around town with my uniform on, but i certainly don't go to the wasted effort of taking off any evidence of what i am and what i do either. i'm not ashamed of being a pilot but it sounds as though you guys are. what a pity you spent all the time, effort and money only to engage in such pathetic behaviour.

[In-Cog-neeto]

Azzie....

Agreed....well said!

Incog

[GoodGuy]

There is one small fact that the rather posh airline boys have forgotten.......it was an instructor that taught them to fly....without us you would be sweeping roads.

GG

[GoodGuy]

One thing that the posh airline boys fail to remember is that it was an instructor that taught them to fly.

G G

[kalik]

What a sensible comment GoodGuy .

Had I not learnt to fly , how many stripes could I have worn as a roadsweeper ? And could I have worn my liontamers hat ?

[Luftwaffle]

The answer to the original question "how many bars can I wear," is "as many as you can load on without exceeding max gross on the aircraft." There are no laws governing the wearing of epaulettes, and there don't seem to be any general standards.

You might also consider the question, how many bars can you wear without someone thinking you're a twit. The consensus answer to that one seems to be zero.

The only flight instructors I have seen with bars on work for air-taxi/charter companies, so they're wearing the bars to be identifiable to passengers, not to students.

And anyhow, if you wear shiny bars, take 'em off your shoulders when you're off duty so that you don't accidentally put them in the washing machine with the shirt.

[PA38]

I wear a uniform in my (vocation) and it just acts as a focal point for the saturday night **** head, I would love to blend into the background and get on with my job.
It seems to shout authority to your average single brain cell prat, and they react in the only way they know.
Perhaps this could be one of the factors in air rage attacks?
But back to the thread, I learnt with a superb instructor he wore casual clothes all the time, but I judge on ability not looks!

[This message has been edited by PA38 (edited 30 April 2000).]

[Fokjok]

GoodGuy, don't kid yourself.... The best instructors wear grow-bags and thin stripes.

Sorry, I'd love to stay and chat, but I'm going out tonight and I really have to find my Village People Cowboy outfit - dressing up is suuuuuuch fun!!!

[bluestuff76]

A pilot I know has been spotted down at the local pub wearing his pilot uniform and four gold bars. He has all the smooth moves. Some people have no shame!

[bluestuff76]

Question: Why do Captains wear epaulettes with four gold bars?


Answer: Because they don't make them with five!

[henri`s girlfriend]

bluestuff, whats wrong with that ?

My henri does the same thing and he`s never
flown a plane in his life.

:) :) :) :)

[ppr]

I think that respect is earned - not a given right just because someone wears gold braid. That is not to say that an instructor should not be dressed reasonably smartly. I dont understand why some people think that instructors are "the lowest form of life" and "not taken seriously". That is rubbish. Most instructors I have met have been very highly regarded.

[Risky.Flyer]

As somebody said earlier airline pilots wear stripes to be recognised by passengers and crew especially in an emergency situation. Hopefully in a C152 your student should not have a problem recognising you in a similar situation. Respect does not come from how many stripes you have, but it comes from consistently operating to a high standard. If you think that stripes are the only way you will get respect I am afraid you must be doing something wrong. Oh and by the way if there were no airline pilots you would not have any pilots to train in the first place.

[chicken6]

Risky.Flyer

You lose points for this,
<quote>if there were no airline pilots you would not have any pilots to train in the first place.</quote>

There are hundreds of thousands of pilots in the world, and hardly any of them fly for airlines. Since there are still hundreds of thousands of pilots who don't apparently know how to fly from birth, we must teach those who wish to learn, maybe for fun. The logic behind saying "every airline pilot must have been taught once" does not hold for the inverse "every instructor must teach airline pilots". Our club has about 150 pilots, none of whom fly for any airline. Are you saying these people don't exist?

Since you list your occupation as pilot, but are in the Instructors' corner, I thought you honestly didn't know this. No offence.

Safe flying

[Risky.Flyer]

Chicken6,
No offence taken.
The original thread was about a new "commercial" instructor, which I took to be an instructor who trains "commercial" pilots. My mistake!
I have the utmost respect for competent instructors, but I respect them for their ability not for a bit of dressing on their shoulders. As I said before the only real reason for airline pilots to wear stripes is for crew/passenger recognition.

[JJflyer]

I would happily give my stripes away or change them for a payrise, say 1000 USD a stripe ( I would settle for a dollar after a little talking ).

Wearing stripes does not make you more or less professional than the bloke that does not have any.
Thing is that in some part's of the world rampers and ops people expect pilots to wear uniforms and if you don't well, you get treated differently ( mostly developing countries ).

Anyways I much rather fly in my shorts, sandals and dirty T-shirt wearing my Billabong hat Unfortunately I can do it only now and then as my company enforces a strict uniform code.

JJ

[NIMBUS]

Chicken6,
Interesting comment...<<There are certain expectations in society and one is that a pilot with a valid commercial license will have some sign of rank>>>...
I am a pilot, fly only for recreation, and have a commercial licence. Do I have any "rank"?
Just because someone learned to operate a flying machine does not give them any particular "rank" in society. Pilots- instructors, ATP, Commercial, or whatever- are no better or worse than taxi drivers, shopkeepers, or vets.
Wearing stripes as part of a uniform while engaged in your employment is one thing, but using them to impress "society" shows either a big ego or massive insecurity.
Just a comment.

[NIMBUS]

Sorry all, couldn't resist this!

How many pilots does it take to install a light bulb ?

ONE.

He holds the bulb and the whole world revolves around him!

[azzie]

it's not about rank at all in my opinion, or status in society...it's about having spent so much damn money, and worked so damn hard to get where you are, that you should have every reason, if not right, to be proud of what you do. i don't advocate wandering around town in your uniform on your day off! But I do think that being seen to be professional in attire is an important start to your training establishment being seen as a good place to learn. it's not even about each individual looking smart, it's about the whole 'team' looking like a team and also like they're actually qualified.

i don't have a huge problem with people who teach in casual gear, it doesn't have any bearing on their ability to teach and if you're a one-man show without a club or school that employs you then that's fine. as an instructor employed by an aero club i think it's important you all look smart, in the same way as the bank tellers all look smart.

just my opinion though

[Hudson]

I certainly took off my bars after putting the Boeing to bed for the night and I headed for home via the local supermarket. After all, you would look like a real ponce wearing all that braid while pushing a trolley around the aisles full of KiteKat and dog tucker.

[chicken6]

NIMBUS

Yeah, you're right, miscommunication on my part. I meant that while you are working you should have some visible sign that you are the Pilot In Command, and that you have the legal rights associated thereof. On eof our old ex-pilots works in SE Asia, and on one of his last visits he mentioned that if he didn't keep borrowing stripes from someone, nobody would treat him like a pilot ie let him onto his own helicopter! That's what I was referring to.



------------------
Confident, cocky, lazy, dead.

[WeeWillyWinky]

Nimbus

In answer to your question about how many pilots it takes to change a light bulb the answer is actually 21. 1 to change the bulb and the other 20 to tell you how they used to do it on Tridents (ask a BA pilot if you don't follow).

Back to the subject thread, like all things in life authority and competence come from within not with the packaging.

[This message has been edited by WeeWillyWinky (edited 14 May 2000).]

[In-Cog-neeto]

Wee Willy Winky

Yeah, but confidence in authority is assisted by what the wrapper looks like!

InCog

[whatsarunway]

I have a full uniform wings badges and 4 stripes (gold) i dont use it in the robinson 22 . I keep it nice for the nite clubs and it works a treat ... hey im ugly its my only hope and it works . its only for show and doesnt make you a better pilot but if you have a good looking female student then sew your stripes together and have a set of eight !

[Malcolm Dean]

G SPOT

It would appear that spelling and English grammar were not two of the subjects that were passed on to you by your instructor.

Malcolm Dean
Head of Training
Multiflight

[G-SPOT at Work]

Malcolm

Apologies for my spelling and grammar, do you have any comments about the points that I made? I believe they are factual.

I think I originally made the first post in early May, Ill look again in August to give you time to consider a reply

[Malcolm Dean]

G-Spot

I don't need until August to reply. This forum is not one that I normally visit. I was referred to a particular thread by WWW after our accident in Mid May.

The thread on "stripes" is getting to be rather lengthy. Yes we do ask Instructors at Multiflight to wear uniform and yes we do distinguish between an FI(R) and an FI and the CFI and yes we do fly Cessna 152's and Robin 200's and Cessna 172's and a Beech 76. We also fly a Falcon 900 a couple of Citations a Dauphine a Sikorksy S76 a Twin Squirrel a Jetranger not too mention a Hughes 500 a single Squirrel and a Robinson R22. Rumour has it we may even put a B737 on the fleet shortly.

In short, we are a very very professional company that values ALL of its employees from the office cleaner who makes a very valuable contribution to our quality of life right up to dare I say it the Head of Training who has a little bit of influence on what goes on here. Uniforms are just a small part of the ethos that we wish to portray and that it is not about posing or trapping or pulling or flannel. It is simple and purely about a professional image. Why should somebody who teaches for his profession not be entitled to wear the same "badge of office" as someone who flys for say an air taxi company or an airline. Reticence about wearing a uniform says more about someones insecurity than it does about the company that asks for it to be worn.

Malcolm Dean
Head of Training
Multiflight

[Lasiorhinus]

And arent there some hot bank tellers around :D

[18greens]

Why bother with the two or three stripes question. If it was me I'd go for 8 (or maybe even 10).

Who remembers Spike Milligan having to pass sideways through doors to accomodate the great epaulettes.:D

[mad_jock]

We have some Gold 5 Bars in the stock at my work.

Every so often the teenagers get it into there head to bait me, and try and get me to put them on. Some refresher stall training shortly follows in the tomahawk which usually puts the matter to rest.

All our students know that pecking order is done with how much hair you have on your head. The less hair the higher up the scale you are.

No doudt one of the teenagers will read this and grass me up.


"your career bonnie lad!" will get issued from the office followed by a can of cider ;)

MJ

[Mister Geezer]

Stripes when instructing are not necessary. Maybe allowances can be made for commercial flying but certainly not for PPL instructing. At the end of the day PPL flying is all about flying in a relaxed atmosphere and having fun. You want to be approachable to your students and not create a 'them and us' culture with you with your 4 silver or gold bars on! My CAAFU IR examiner did not wear any stripes so if he if not going to then I as a PPL instructor will definitely not even consider it. You can still create a professional impression to a customer at a PPL FTO by wearing a white shirt with dark trousers and a dark tie and polished shoes!

[StudentInDebt]

As one of the instructors who falls into the "overinflated ego-self absorbed-sad git" camp can I point out in my defence that I am compelled to wear stripes by my employer who also incidentally pays me at least minimum wage salary each month come wind,rain or shine. If I do not wear them I can be sent home for the day and lose a day's holiday, consistent breach of contract can result in dismissal. So, given today's employment climate, I'll keep wearing mine when flying my C152 if you don't mind.

On a slightly different note said employer also insists that our white airline style shirts are adorned with our name, position and 2 huge gold wings around their logo, which restricts after work hours pub antics somewhat, as well as destroying the veil of anonymity when chatting up members of the opposite sex (errr also in the pub generally).

[jsf]

mad_jock

I've heard some excuses for going bald but that one takes the biscuit!

Did you tear all yours out in Coventry?

[mad_jock]

Nope its not worth it. I am going to have to pull out a hell of alot more if i want to catch up with my CFI.

And the baldy git has decided that he gets 2 months paternity leave. So it looks like i have the least hair in the building without even trying.

Mind you this means i have been promoted to training manager so i can sign the log books for the night ratings.

MJ

[jsf]

More experienced than you and less hair!

Are you learning humility or have you had a guilt attack old boy?

Still racking up the hours I hope. Becoming a parent seems a bit of an extreme way of getting two months off. We get that much time off at the LBA just for weather between each lesson we teach....as you may remember!

[mad_jock]

:D


The experence bit isn't hard to beat. I i am pretty sure the boss has more avgas hours than SA.

Just pretty happy with life just now.

Anyway i may see you chaps again if i get time off for good behaviour in a month or so after the sprog has dropped.
And i will be expecting all you chaps to be wearing gold stripes just like the multi****e instructors ;)

Mj

[jsf]

Mj

MS instructors have given up wearing stripes because everybody thought they looked a right load of pi*locks (and told them as much, being as this is Yorkshire)

We can wear them to take the pi*s if you like!

Thought your gaffer had lots of turbine time! Didn't he used to fly J31's or was he on something else?

jsf

[Charter]

I'm a flight instructor in Madrid.

Another instructor and I, last summer, decided to do a bit of night flying in a PA28T whilst "off-duty" and obviously NO uniform and NO stripes. We landed at Barajas International Airport that only welcomes general aviation between 23.00 and 07.00h.

On our departure two days later (we had a slot for 4.00am!), we showed our IDs and pilot licences at the police control so as to be able to access the parking area and the words of the policeman on duty were:

"Hey, if you're really pilots...how come you're not wearing a uniform??! And where are your stripes??!"

He really seemed more worried about the fact that we were'nt wearing our stripes than our licences and IDs! In the end we were allowed to continue, but I have the funny feeling that he really didn't believe that we were REAL pilots!

In general, here in Spain, "Stripes" get you through police controls even if you're carrying a bomb in your bag!

[mad_jock]

DC3's or i should say C47's in the UK.



Don't both with the stripes i will see you all on Monday.

MJ

[MLS-12D]

As we all know, airline pilots wear uniforms to make them readily identifable and impressive. If there is an emergency and the pilots or cabin crew members have to give orders to the pax, you don't want any confusion or resistance ("who is that guy in the golf shirt to tell ME not to evacuate on the side that's on fire?").

Such considerations don't apply to most instructional situations. Training flights generally are manned by one instructor and one or at most two students. Everybody knows perfectly well who is in command, who has the most experience, and who has the final say over how the flight is conducted. The instructor doesn't need a fancy uniform to set himself or herself apart from the other occupant(s) of the aircraft. And of course, Mister Geezer's point is valid.

I certainly agree that flight instructors meet most (though not all) of the criteria for being "professionals" ... but that status is not dependant upon fancy dress. A doctor without a white lab jacket, or an ungowned barrister, is still a professional.

Finally, at the risk of appearing to contradict myself, if someone (pilot or not) wants to wear wings on their chest or bars on their shoulders, IMHO that's their choice and their business. Pretentious? Sure, but they're not hurting anyone, so big deal. Let them have their fun (so long as it doesn't go to their heads and result in them bossing everyone else around, of course).

[pholooh]

Having lived in different countries over the past few years i have noticed something among brits. The y are ashamed of the accomplishments and identity. Note, I said ASHAMED not MODEST, cos those are 2 entirely different things.
Another observation i have made is that 90% of the anti-stripes, anti-unifroform, anti-suit, anti tie brigade tend to be suffering from some form of middle aged crisis. my advice is that you act your age, trying to "fit in" with 18-25 yr olds isnt going to help your case.
It's really sad that airline pilots believe that they are the only ones entitled to wear stripes and uniforms. It is also sad that pilots are ashamed of being identified in public. Bus drivers walk around town in their unforms so do motorcyclists, nurses, industrial workers, retail assistants, travel agents, etc, etc. and it doesnt seem to be a problem.
BTW, can someone explain why in the UK the re is this divide b/w PPL and commercial instructors? in most countries all FI's are treated the same.
I'm about to spend over £10k on flight training,. If you think that i'm going to spend that amount of cash on some boring middleaged git in flip flops, then u can forget about it.
There is nothing wrong with "ppl instructors" wearing stripes. From a consumers point of view, an instructors dress code is one of the first things i look at when shortlisting schools, and i know a significant no of people who do the same.