BAe Jerez - anybody know what its like

[Wee Weasley Welshman]

I've applied to the Flight advert for the above employer. I was wondering if anyone knows the package on offer, types used, pros/cons etc.

Cheers

WWW

[BEagle]

Hablo Vd Espanol?? Seriously though, what do you think that they mean by a 'Junior Flying Instructor'? Is that a way of saying 'An instructor for whose skills we'll only be paying peanuts'? It would be very interesting to hear what British Waste-of-space are intending!! Most things they do - like Eurofighter - are late and over budget.....allegedly!!
Was thinking of applying for Head of Flight Training at OATS - except for their love affaire with Ailing Bob!!

[Meeb]

Go for it WWW, you will love teaching to a commercial licence, although it is devalued now under JAR. The junior instructor thing is a way for them to pay a low salary like BEagle says, and I believe all instructors are having intensive Spanish lessons because only one controller speaks English! On the OATS thing, has Bruce retired?

[Wee Weasley Welshman]

Hell - I'm not intertested if they pay peanuts - let them hire monkeys. I've been in this game a while now and will soon have 1000 instructonal hours. I don't need to travel half way across Europe - they would have to entice me.

WWW

[BEagle]

Well - let's hope that BAe wake up to the fact that they'll have to pay proper money to their instructors!! Do they expect you to find your own accommodation as well? Or will they think that you'll be oh so grateful for a flying job that you'll be happy to live in a tent and survive on a diet of paella y vino tinto whilst they push Ailing Bob's wannabees through the system. There's only one tiny fault with that plan - it's b*ll*cks!!

[Airprox]

They offered me a job last year with the threat of moving to Spain hanging over my head. They were offering 25 grand a year for a multi engine instructor. I didn't take it and I'm now earning more flying jets with an airline.

If I was to stay instructing I would look at Hunting Contract Services who run the RAF, Navy and Army's Joint Elementary Flight Training School at Barkston Heath. Great fun flying slingsbys. If they were retractable I would be there now.

[BEagle]

Airprox - were they throwing in accommodation for that figure? And what about your relocation expenses?? If not, then it's a pittance. All FIs employed at that sort of place should demand the same pay - not less than £35K per annum PLUS relocation expenses AND a number of free flights back to the UK every year. If British Waste-of-space want to sabotage the UK training industry with their Spanish Fly ing, then they should damn well pay for it!!

[Wee Weasley Welshman]

Thanks chaps. I have considered Barkston Heath - I have an ex-colleague there (PJ) and it looks fun. I'll let you know what the deal is when they tell me.

WWW

[Meeb]

BEagle does your reasoning also apply to Hunting at BH too in that case? They also pay 25K but start people on 20K till their probation period is over. Only single engine flying, not what you could call a career move.

[BEagle]

Yes - Huntings underbid for that contract on the assumption that most of their instructors would be ex-RAF QFIs happy for a bit of stability who would already have a pension to top up their low wages. However, there aren't enough and hence Huntings are also in the slave-wages plan for low hours wannabees desperate to hours-build. Eventually they'll realise that they'll have to offer a proper wage, paricularly under Eurocracy, or they'll lose the contract as no-one will work for them. The whole contract FI set up for the military is a cheap and nasty way of trying to cut down on defence costs - and is utterly despised by those who have to train their output products later on in their careers!! YOU GET WHAT YOU PAY FOR!!

[Airprox]

Hunting offered me work as well and I was very tempted. They were offering a starting salary of 18 grand whilst training rising to 20 grand for the first year or until passing a B2 check flight with CFS and then it went to 25 grand, rising each year. They had no relocation package or help with accomadation, though you could stay at RAF Cranwell Officers mess at 30 quid a night (which comes to about 18 grand a year!!).

BEagle, BAe offered no relocation for Spain as I would be taking the job knowing that I had to move to Spain, and I didn't ask about accomadation.

[Black Jake]

Reference: Working for Huntings at Barkston Heath. Regardless of what they offer you, to achieve gainful employment with the company you must pass an acceptance ride with CFS. On this you must fly and teach to a minimum equivalent standard to an RAF B2 (CFS trained instructor on probation). Furthermore, 6-9 months later you must fly a further sortie with CFS and teach to an equivalent B1 standard (average CFS instructor). If not the military won't sanction your employment then JEFTS cannot use you at Barkston Heath, Cranwell, Newton or Church Fenton. No CFS approval = no job. Happy to set the rumours straight.
Yours, Black Jake.

[This message has been edited by Black Jake (edited 07 December 1999).]

[BEagle]

So if you're an A2 QFI/IRE with over 2500 hours instructional time and you're a UK/FE(PPL), how much more would they pay than they would for a brand-new B1 equivalent?? And if you don't pass your B1 assessment, how many unlucky students will you have trained to an inadequate standard??

[This message has been edited by BEagle (edited 08 December 1999).]

[This message has been edited by BEagle (edited 08 December 1999).]

[Black Jake]

Re: Pay scales for instructional experience - sorry, cannot help, I'm not privvy to that information. But the company does recognise experience and pay for it.
Re: Comment about unlucky students being trained to inadequate standard. A bit harsh don't you think? Even CFS trained B2 QFIs have to practice on someone whilst they learn their trade. Provided there are sufficient checks and balances - which there are - no student should be disadvantaged.

[BEagle]

Yes, sorry - what I meant was that an instructor who wasn't goood enough to upgrade to B1 was probably not giving students the best instruction. Of course FIs will be gaining experience and a normal one should upgrade easily - but a poor one will probably have been instructing to an inadequate standard if he/she bongs the B1 check.

[capt beeky]

Beagle, your intentions are good. At 35K however instructors at the big school will be earning the same as they were paid during the last boom without taking into account inflation

[BEagle]

If the pay rates for FIs have plummeted that much, is it surprising that good, experienced instructors have voted with their feet? And now even well-known and once respected schools - such as that place near Mad Jamie's gaff - are hunting for hours-desperate wannabes, so that they can get away with paying them sweat shop rates!! Pay peanuts - you get monkeys!! Especially in Jerez!!