IMC rating in France!

[Speedbird744]

Can't be to convinced by this but can anyone else state their opinions.
The CAA clearly states that VFR flight on top of a covered layer is possible for a UK-issued PPL/IMC wherever they may be, France or UK. I understand that flying IFR isn't possible without a valid Instrument Rating, but must the surface always be in sight while flying VFR (but in IMC or above) in France.

Check this article I found. Bottom of Page 9 - Benefits of IMC rating abroad


http://www.caa.co.uk/docs/33/SRG_GAD_GASIL2OF2004.PDF

[S-Works]

It has been long established that the IMC allowes the flight under VFR out of site of the surface in countries where this is permitted. It is actually a UK restriction on a JAR PPL that prevents flight out of site of the surface without an IMC.

It is perfectly legal to fly above cloud in France including in the airways VFR.

Your problem of course is that you have to find a hole in the cloud to get back below as flying an Instrument approach can only be done under IFR and that is illegal without an IR!

[Bodie]

Interesting, but I think it's more of a loophole than anything practical. For example, the legalities may come in to question when climbing through cloud in the first place.

I'd like to hear opinions too.

Bodie

bose-x - beat me to it!

[High Wing Drifter]

Not sure it is a loophole at all.

Can it be summed up thus: That basically, whenever you fly abroad, you must adhere to the most restrictive regulations of the state you are flying in, the state of license issue or the state of registration of your a/c?

In this case for a PPL/IMC the most restrictive is the French PPL regs.

[Speedbird744]

So you can depart the UK, using the IMC rating to climb well about the clouds, cross the channel to France above the clouds (the IMC Rating now invalid) but remain in VMC and the required seperation from clouds. And as long as a there is a hole when you're landing VFR, this is ok on a JAA PPL?

[S-Works]

yep! you have it in a nutshell. But it is one hell of a gamble to travel that far and hope there is a gap in the cloud to get back down through remaining VMC at all times!!!

[M609]

But it is one hell of a gamble to travel that far and hope there is a gap in the cloud to get back down through remaining VMC at all times!!!

More people should think about that, as I've had the "pleasure" of controlling GA aircraft stuck VMC on top after a 400nm flight.....
And where do they try this? Oh, well inside the arctic circle offcourse! :mad:

A solid cloud cover and and 6000ft terrain below, is allways fun!

It has worked out "fine" for all, for now, but that's 99% luck in some cases.

[IO540]

It is in fact perfectly reasonable to depart in the UK IFR, climb above the cloud, and so long as one is VMC on top when crossing the FIR boundary to France, that's OK, and typically 1/3 of the way down through France the cloud vanishes.

Similarly on the way back.

Of course these conditions aren't always like that, but often they are, and when they are it is easy enough to check that they are likely to remain so. One can get TAFs and METARs and god knows what else for all of Europe via e.g. Avbrief.

[bookworm]

I understand that flying IFR isn't possible without a valid Instrument Rating, but must the surface always be in sight while flying VFR (but in IMC or above) in France.

You cannot fly VFR in IMC. Assuming that what you meant in the () was (above cloud), the answer is no. Very few states build "in sight of the surface" into their VFR minima. One that does is, AFAIR, South Africa. Some states do impose extra conditions where VFR is conducted out of sight of the surface.

But it is one hell of a gamble to travel that far and hope there is a gap in the cloud to get back down through remaining VMC at all times!!!

I've been on a flight that climbed above cloud in the UK on IMC-rating privileges and continued over a solid layer towards Duesseldorf (where SCT cloud was forecast). Unfortunately, we encountered lowering visibilites as we approached convective activity around Kleine Brogel, and so we turned round and came all the way back to the UK. The fuel was planned for just that (plus a substantial reserve).

It was a gamble in the pecuniary sense, though I would gladly have paid double for the fuel for access to an in-flight loo. :)