Advice sought on Legal Issues on Instructing JAR in the US

[porridge]

With reference to all that has been said regarding CAA training in the US in the topic: ‘Instructing over the Pond’, what is the position if someone is working for a school doing JAR Commercial Pilot training in the US if I hold a FAA Instructors rating as well as a CAA Instructors rating?.
1) My FAA license is valid, but I don’t have a valid CAA/JAA medical although the Instructors is still valid - can I be doing JAR work on my without this medical, as the management reckon this is legal?
2) I have completed the 15 hours of approved CAA/JAA training similar to that completed by myself and my other FAA colleagues to allow me to do this work.
3) We have CAA/JAA Instructors operating on FAA validations/licenses (but without FAA Instructor ratings) here at the school - they instruct from ab initio, but don’t sign off any of the training in both the Student license medical form/logbook. They require me and my colleagues to do this.
4) The CAA/JAA instructors do flight and progress tests with these students - if the students don’t have PPL licenses how can they carry passengers? These flights are logged by the Students as Pilot in Command/solo. My concern is that if any students have even a minor problem with the FAA when operating solo they will look at their logbooks etc. and see that non-FAA Instructor rated personnel have been instructing them.
5) If I am the Instructor who has done all the students’ sign-off’s will the FAA put me on the spot if the student has an incident they may be relative to some instruction the non-FAA rated has given them? The students is not going to keep their mouth’s shut!
6) I instruct the students they may not carry passengers and now they ask me what will happen if the FAA see they have logged a check flight as ‘Solo’ when they now they were not Pilot in Command, as the CAA/JAA Instructor was.
I am caught on the horns of a dilemma as if we lose the CAA/JAA work than I’m out of a job, and if FAA ‘bust my ass’, I’m out still out of job and the Fed’s can do all sorts of other unpleasant things including getting to reside at one of their deluxe Penal/Anal Institutions - pun intended!
Legally I am sure I need to get out ASAP, but I also on a contract so I’m in violation of that if I leave!
Worse still, if I go back to the UK - having blown the whistle on this company - I’ve heard that they could be quite vindictive and as the aviation community is a small one, carry a stigma with me that I will find difficult to lose!
I know if some Yanks tried to do something like this in the UK the CAA would cause an almighty stink about it.
Any advice or comment gratefully received!

[Meeb]

Hmm, I only know of one school which is approved to conduct JAA training in the states, and they certainly did none of the things you mention, or at least they did'nt 18 months ago. Maybe you are refering to one of the UK schools who have an operation out there, in any case my advice would be get out quick, your understanding of the FAA is spot on, they do not suffer fools gladly and your employer sounds just that! What they are doing is plain wrong, do not be part of it.

BTW You are not legally allowed to instruct on a CAA/JAR licence course if your JAA medical is not current, but it does not need to be valid as a class one providing you get it back to class one status as soon as is practicable. Good Luck in what you choose, and do not worry about what anyone in the UK thinks of your actions in leaving, the airlines here know very little about what goes on in the states, and care even less.

[BlueLine]

porridge

If your UK (JAA) medical has lapsed you cannot exercise the privileges of your UK licence in any respect (ANO) however, if as I susprect you are flying FAA registered aircraft you will be operating on your FAA licence so the UK medical is not relevant. FAA instructors do UK contract training without UK licences, but there is a required ratio of national to overseas instructors doing such training. They cannot do it without a FAA CFI rating and you should not be signing it off. Whilst in the USA you must abide by the FAA rules.

[rolling circle]

Whilst it is true that under CAP509 there was a minimum ratio of CAA to FAA instructors, the same is not true under JAR-FCL1. The sort of operations catered for by CAP509 (Flight Safety, WMU etc.) are still not permitted by the JAA. Before Meeb leaps in, I know that the UK CAA have approved WMU to train for the JAA licence but this is outwith the provisions of JAR-FCL1 and the matter is up for discussion by the JAA committee who are likely to issue a severe rap over the collective CAA knuckles. It is to be hoped that, having done that, they elect to recognise the licences so gained.

The operation referred to by porridge is allowed under JAR-FCL1 and is one whereby an FTO in a JAA member state carries out part of its training outside the JAA. In this case there is no FAA/CAA ratio laid down and, in fact, the OATS operations at Williams and Lakeland are 100% FAA apart from the respective CFI's.

In the matter of UK instructors, not holding FAA instructor certificates, teaching exercises up to first solo and first solo cross-country, if this is true then it is in direct contravention of FAR Part 61 which requires these exercises to be taught by 'authorised instructors'. Anyone involved in the process is committing a federal offence and what you do about it depends whether you think your job is worth a spell in the federal pen!

[porridge]

MEEB, BLUELINE & ROLLING CIRCLE

Many thanks for your advice.
Yes, I am instructing on US registered aircraft and so I am legal with the FAA license side of things, and of course my FAA colleagues don’t have any JAA ratings. Should have realized that.

Since my posting - someone emailed me, with no identification except the email address, and I quote:

"Hi there - seen your posting and concerns, just make sure you do not do anything you should not do with your CFI ticket. The Fed’s are on the case and they are going to look closely at a lot of these guys doing these foreign contracts and the all instructors doing the training. Make sure your visa is in order too.
Good luck, it gonna hit the prop sooner than you think"

Who ever it was who sent me this - thanks very much, it’s appreciated.
Who say’s PPRuNe isn’t useful, where else could I have got all this info and so quickly too!
Many thanks to all again.

['I' in the sky]

Porridge, some of your questions have more clear cut answers than others.

Sign-offs. If YOU have covered the required elements FAR61.87 you can endorse the students logbook/medical.If it is the case that CAA/JAA instructors are doing the bulk of the instruction, and you are then being asked to do the sign offs on the strength of a single check flight, you could get bitten. The student does not need to have an accident,he could just get ramp checked.In the case I referred to in the 'Instructing across the pond' thread that is what happened.

Your CAA/JAA licenced colleagues would be well advised to check with the FAA personally whether they can legally fly/instruct for hire or reward in N reg aircraft without FAA Commercial licences.

Instructing towards CAA/JAA Commercial licences does not require a FAA instructor rating, but they are still being paid to fly .

Surely a student pilot with an instructor on board can only log this as dual time. P1s can be used for the succesful completion of a flight test with an examiner. I don't think this includes stage checks. If it does then it should be clear within the appoved syllabus/documents etc. I believe only approved courses such as CAP509/FAR141 can use stage checks in this way.

If your commercial students are on approved courses which require you to hold an instructor approval then your medical needs to be valid.

With regard to the school being vindictive, maybe that alone solves your dilema. How can they possibly object to a proffesional person clarifying with the appropriate authorities that he is operating within the law ? I imagine they would get pretty uptight if they had something to hide, in which case they are an unproffesional school and you would hardly carry a stigma for leaving.

Do not assume that just because a school holds CAA approvals, everything which happens there is above board.The CAA inspectors which visit and approve these couses have little interest or knowledge of the FARs and at the school which I eventually left the (British) owner certainly took full advantage of this.

You are probably in a similar situation to the one I was if you have heard comments from the management along the lines of the following:
"The FAA have no jurisdiction aver what we do as we are training towards CAA/JAA licences"

"I have so many friends within the CAA"

"Due to my standing within the industry you would not want to leave here on bad terms"

The reality is crooks with delusions of grandeur are not respected within the industry and you should not be intimidated by them. Nor do you want any stigma attaching to you by sticking around them for too long.
I do not know which school you are at, and some of the above may not apply but the message is you do what you need to do to watch your back. When you find out that the person you thought you could respect because he is 'approved' has been bull****ting you, it will be too late.

[porridge]

'I' in the Sky
Yes, what you say about 'persons with delusions of grandeur' is so true.
I'll watch my back carefully.
Many thanks for the advice, it's appreciated

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