IMC rating diary

[Obs cop]

Having been spurred on by Mazzy's great PPL Diary and FFF's CPL diary, I wondered if any tortured souls would be interested in following the ups and downs of my IMC rating. The first hour was completed today and was terribly rewarding.

My background

I am a PPL with 75 hours currently looking to build hours and experience for a CPL. My ATPL ground studies are continuing alongside this and my full time job. I gained the bulk of my initial training courtesy of the Royal Navy Grading Flight on the Grob 115D2 before I finally left a few years back. Last year after a considerable lay off I finished off my PPL and after some solo experience I have started my IMC rating flying from Coventry airport.

I have no desire to go into why I am doing the IMC rating as the pro's and cons have been discussed many times over on Pprune, it just suits the current phase of my flying development. Long term, my objective is to gain my IMC, night, CPL and then FI(R).

The first hour

Some will know and some will not, but the IMC rating consists of 15 hours training split into 3 main phases. The first phase is how to actually fly on instruments, the second is how to find your way around whilst on instruments and the last is how to get on the ground. I have already done the bare minimum of 5 hours instrument instruction with my PPL, but I have to say I was fairly apprehensive about today. Being used to VFR and the outside world for attitude, I didn't really have a clue as to what the straight and level, climbing and descending attitudes would look on the AI!

As ever, we started with a briefing, during which my instructor laid out the plan for the first hour. We discussed setting up a scan of the instruments and how to vary it for the manoeuver being completed. Throughout today we were going to use the full panel which on the cessna 152 I fly would be the 6 main flight instruments with the addition of the RPM guage for engine power settings. This led us on nicely to revision of PAT and APT with the power settings of 1900 rpm for a 90kt 450fpm descent, 2200-2300 rpm for 90kts straight and level and full power for our neck snapping 450 fpm rate of climb.

The walkround was stright forward but I did notice that for my first lesson under the hood, I had picked one of the nicest days of the year so far with clear blue skys and great visibility of 20k or so. Darn, no doubt the thermal activity of the lumps and bumps would give me a challenge to distract me from this schoolboy error.

Once airbourne we departed toward Draycott Water and once settled at 1400 ft outbound I went under the hood. Instantly, I got a horrible case of the leans (For those who have not had this happen to themselves, it is where your balance senses are adamant you are leaning to once side or the other. It is terribly disorientating when the instruments say you are right side up). I could see the sunlight dancing around on the panel and the hood became quite disturbing. Between the leans, and the sunlight moving quite differently to the actual movement of the aircraft, I couldn't have told you which way was up, but it sure felt strange. The turbulence was quite severe with first one then the other wing yanked skywards by thermals. I became fixated on the AI as my new best friend and missed my out of balance flight veering off from a heading of 120 to 090. On noticing this I realised I hadn't set up a scan, I was just fixed on the one dial that made me feel safe. It's a long time since I felt this out of control of an aircraft.

Gradually I got us back on our desired heading and clearing the base of the controlled airspace, we then started a series of climbs on various headings eventually levelling at 6000 feet. By now the air had become far smoother and I was having to spend less time fighting the aircraft. My confidence level grew as we headed off on a heading of 030, but I missed stopping the turn, only noticing that I had managed to get to 010. I dilligently altered the attitude to turn back to the right and scanned my balance ball and altitude only to see that once again we sailed past 030 and by now were closer to 050. Steeling myself, I got back to 030 and cursed, but soon ironed it out with a few 360 and 180 degree turns. Even now, with about 15 minutes under the hood, I felt more stable and I could sense that my scan had improved, headings and altitudes were held +/- 10 degrees or 50 feet. I had by no means conquered this new challenge as it dawned on me it had just taken all of my efforts to fly without navigating or talking to anyone on the radio. My instructor had filled in these gaps, and I had no idea where we were or what other aircraft were about. After 20 minutes under the hood, I had a breather, took it off and found we were overhead Leicester. I felt like I had been beaten up by Mike Tyson, with my brain aching from concentration.

The respite was over and I went back onto the instruments, but noticeably without any leans. Our route back was a series of descents and turns, obviously designed to practice the complementary side of how we got up there in the first place. Then came those words.......

"Ill vector us in on a simulated SRA approach to about 2 miles, lets see how we go".......

Brain tries to compute what I have just heard. He wants me to do a non-precision approach in this bucking bronco.....now! The voice on the radio seemed distanced, even though it's owner was sat next to me as we got back into the turbulent air. I was given a series of headings to steer and descents to make, holding the AI on the required attitude becoming harder with each lump in the sky. We got to 5 miles at 2000 feet and I commenced my 90kt descent at 450fpm. Very shortly afterwards, a huge lurch to the left rolled the aircraft 15 degrees to the left and I fought the roll with my colleague the AI. Gathering it back in we were now 10 degrees off heading and more worryingly 300 feet high when informed I should have been at 1200 feet. I stuffed the nose down, whilst taking off a touch of the power and we charged down towards our 2 mile point where I would be released from this nightmare challenge. The voice next to me said 2 miles, but made no mention of removing the hood. Now I though, what the? A few moments later, I was asked to lift the hood and I can tell you the sight of that runway ahead was amazing. The flight was rounded off with a nice landing and we taxied in to shutdown and de-brief.

With hindsight, I cannot say that I enjoyed the flight, which sounds very odd. The concentration level was so high, I couldn't enjoy it at the time, but the approach and landing made it feel very rewarding. Now I can appreciate why instrument flying is a skill that needs practicing frequently, so I've booked hour 2 for a weeks time to continue the challenge.


If there is enough interest then I shall endeavour to continue this diary. It is my first attempt, and it is important for me to gauge the response as my main aim is to help others. The knowledge of what the IMC rating contains will no doubt help others decide if it is for them, and at what stage they feel they should be doing it. Likewise, I am sure for those going through an IMC it could be a source of information and possibly support for the times they feel it is beyond them.

Let me know should it stay or should it go?

Obs cop

[Flock1]

Obs Cop,

I for one would definitely like to read more of your IMC diary. I started the thread 'Reckless or Nervous,' in which I describe the reasons why I want to do an IMC rating. So reading about your training will help me no end.

Cheers!

[Maxflyer]

Please keep it coming. Warts and all!

[Whirlybird]

This is great! I've been meaning to do an IMC rating for years, and hope to finally do it this winter. It's really good to know what to expect.

[Morgo]

Yes plz! i plan on doing my IMC sometime in the next few months... please do keep us informed of whats involved!

[BRL]

Another great thread, nice one Obs.... :ok:

[rustle]

Interesting write up.

Why, though, are you being taught 450fpm climbs and descents? (Okay, maybe climbs are power limited)

[Obs cop]

Thanks for the nice words peeps, I'll keep it coming "warts and all".

Rustle,

The 450 fpm climb is performance limited for our fully laden C152 in hot weather. The descent is a 90 kts cruise descent, which matched to a 450 fpm rate of descent gives approximately 3 degree glide slope.

Today I have mainly learnt that you don't do anything fast in cloud in terms of manouevers.

Secondly, you have to avoid a low to idling power setting in IMC in light aircraft because your suction lowers correspondingly, less suction to your gyro's means less stability for your AI and DI. We try to avoid power settings less than 1900 rpm which coincidentaly is used for the cruise descent so that the suction remains in the green band. At least that is what I have gleaned so far, but it is early days:E

Obs cop

[rustle]

Thanks - I did have a reason for asking about your ROD being 450fpm but I won't say any more... (I sussed the climbing limitation)

I will, however, continue reading your diary to see if you comment further about climbing and descending and/or atc and/or radio failure etc :)

Hopefully no-one will chip in and spoil my fun ;)

[murphy1901]

Obs cop

As a newly qualified PPL with a great desire to complete my IMC rating at some time in the not too distant future, I look forward to reading the rest of your diary as much as I've enjoyed the first installment.

Please keep up the diary and good luck :ok:

Murphy

[S-Works]

fantastic. Keep it coming. as an instrument pilot it brings back memories.

As a guide to other thinking that the the IMC is a get out of jail free card it should highlight just how much time needs to be spent to keep current on instruments.

I look forward to the next installment!!!

:ok:

[Aussie Andy]

I am so tuned in..! Starting my rating mid- September, so will be reading until then!

Andy

[Thirty06]

Reasons to do the IMC ? You live in the UK

I decided to start mine after reading the 78 seconds thread a while back.

The first minute after the foggles go on is definitely the minute in which you'd put yourself in most danger if you were a PPL entering cloud inadvertently.

It's one thing reading about 'The leans' , but another entirely when you're suddenly convinced that you're diving and turning all at once, all instrumentla evidence to the contrary.

Mind you, you can feel a bit of a muppet when everyone is posting on here about what a great gin clear day it was ("There I was over Milton Keynes watching the traffic going in and out of Galway") and all you've seen is the instrument panel and possibly only half of that.

[mazzy1026]

Obs-cop

Fantastic mate - definately keep it up - as a PPL student I will most definately read your diary. Dont be put off by negative comments (which you most likely will get). I have had a few of those my diary (and BRL does a fantastic job keeping them at bay) but generally you will notice a positive attitude (as you can see) :) Best of luck and safe flying.

Lee :ok:

[Fly Stimulator]

obs cop,

Good stuff - I look forward to the unfolding story!

There were a few of us here who did their IMCs last year - you may be interested in some of the experiences recorded in this thread. (http://www.pprune.org/forums/showthread.php?threadid=84080)


Good luck with yours
:ok:

[IO540]

LC

Is an IMC Rating useful to an FI or FI(R)? I know it used to be in the BCPL days but I heard that today an instructor who can teach IMC needs the full IR.

My only comment on your diary is that the instructor should brief you better before the flight. I got endless NDB holds very early on, which was probably good for revenue.

[down&out]

Obs Cop

I'll add to the complements. I got my IMC a number of years ago, but is currently lapsed- so a great prompt for me to renew it.

You comment on the weather reminded me of the last time I renewed it. I did two approaches into Bournemouth on a gin clear day - I never got to see the airport and as I haven't been in before or since - I still haven't seen the place yet:\

[Obs cop]

IO540,

As I am sure my instructor would attest, I am not shy in voicing my opinions or concerns. He was my instructor for my PPL and I have a great deal of respect for the way in which he teaches me.

I feel the suprise simulated SRA was simply used to extend my learning from the hour and to ensure that the most appropriate progress was made. No mention of it was made in the briefing, because it needed nothing more on my part than the ability to fly set headings and descents as I had done for the previous 50 minutes and therefore was just a practical extension of the work briefed and then flown.

Furthermore, the fact it was simulated by my instructor giving the headings and heights meant I didn't pay anything more than a normal landing fee.:ok:

Should any briefings fall short of what I needed for that lesson then my instructor will be the first to know, followed shortly by you guys.:E In any case, I have homework to do, namely reading up on VOR tracking.

Regards

Obs cop

[Blinkz]

Great stuff! Felt like I was almost there :p Keep it coming!

[RodgerF]

Quote:

Is an IMC Rating useful to an FI or FI(R)? I know it used to be in the BCPL days but I heard that today an instructor who can teach IMC needs the full IR.


In the pre-JAA days holding an IMC rating was necessary to hold an AFI/FI rating. Nowadays it is not required, but of course limits the weather capability of the FI/FI(R). An IR is not required to teach the IMC an IMC rating being sufficient but the 'Applied Instrument Flying Instruction' restriction has to be removed from the Instructor rating


My only comment on your diary is that the instructor should brief you better before the flight. I got endless NDB holds very early on, which was probably good for revenue.


Particularly as holding forms no part of the IMC test.

[rustle]

RodgerF and IO540 - you must have had the same instructor early on. :rolleyes:

[tmmorris]

Holding may not officially form part of the test, but it all depends where you do it: I did mine at Oxford and was stacked (the first time I'd ever been stacked...) FL55, so had to hold for about 3 times round (once each at FL55, FL45, 3500), and I'm sure that the examiner was wanting to see them done properly...

Tim

[vsukpadman]

Hi there

when I did mine, I was told by the examiner , that holds had to be TAUGHT in the syllabus, and an entry made to that effect in your logbook.
If that was done, you did NOT need to be tested on holds, but if no evidence was in your logbook that you had done some , then you WOULD be tested on them....

Needless to say I made sure I was taught them <g>

Bill

[BEagle]

Holding is part of the syllabus. It does not form part of the test. However, if ATC direct that a hold is required, the applicant must be able to enter the hold and fly the hold correctly. However, back in 'self-improver' days, many an IMC rated FI without an IR seemed to want to see the student practise endless holds - more for their own benefit than that of the student, I would guess. Same went for those gits who would fly 'demo ILS' approaches with ab-initio PPL students and then log them as part of what was then the mandatory 4 hours of IF training.....

The IMC Rating is a most useful rating for anyone. Personally I still think that FI(R)s should not be permitted to 'upgrade' to FI until they hold an IMC rating themselves and have demonstrated the ability to teach applied IF.

There have even been cases of FIs who, not only still had the 'No applied IF' restriction, but also didn't even hold an IMC rating themselves applying to become FEs.......

[IO540]

I think holds should be taught because they are good for situational awareness, and very occassionally one does have to do one.

But they are relatively hard to do well, which is why I think getting the student to do them early on in the IMCR training is just a revenue generation scheme. A bit like doing the first T&G circuits (in the PPL training) with a 15kt gusty crosswind - brilliant for revenue but the student just sits there messing up one landing after another.

The thing which most instructors won't admit is that there is no need to fly the hold to perfection, because the protected area is big enough for much larger planes and in many cases big enough for a 747 at 180kt or whatever. What matters is that one is flying the correct inbound track to the beacon; the wind correction doesn't have to be spot on and indeed cannot be spot on the first time around, given the uncertain winds aloft and the crappy instruments in the teaching planes which make it hard to measure the track versus heading accurately.

But with most schools scraping out the bottom of the barrel financially, there is a lot of revenue generation going on, sadly.

[omcaree]

I've been reading these forums for a while but been too lazy to post anything. thought I'd stick something in here though.

I completed my IMC rating a few months ago and have already needed to use it (after "forgetting" that visibility in haze is quite bad when flying into the sun). and it has certainly improved my flying in general

I was taught all the theory on holds and entry to holds before having to fly any and I was told that there was no real need to be accurate in a hold, aslong as you can find your way back to the beacon after a reasonable length on time, and preferably from the right direction. All the seperation required in hold is done with altitude, so there is no real danger of flying into anyone if you are a bit off.

[Port Strobe]

Obs cop, your diary makes good reading, thanks. As for the issue surrounding holds I personally feel the workload is extremely high in the hold and I think given a little time to gain experience it will provide an opportunity if nothing else to learn how to cope in very high workload situations whilst also mixing in the busy environment of the aerodrome surroundings and then moving onto the next high workload situation - the instrument approach itself. I'm sure the more experienced instrument fliers find holds and positioning from the hold to the approach fairly routine but I find they teach me a lot and provide a measure of how I'm progressing depending on how well I fly them and how much I take from the first trip round a hold and successfully apply to the subsequent trips. Although they're not examined for the IMC I think any instructor worth their salt would teach a student how to hold since they're entitled upon passing their flight test to fly IFR in controlled airspace where they could very well be slung into a hold before they go any further. Even though they're busy I still enjoy holds and think they're well worth learning. Just my £0.02

[PPRuNe Radar]

All the seperation required in hold is done with altitude, so there is no real danger of flying into anyone if you are a bit off.

Not always true. The Holds can also have built in separation from other holds close by and also SID tracks. For example, the LANAK hold for Glasgow is very very close to the Edinburgh jet departure SID. If you wander outside the protected airspace then you will be endagering yourself and others.

So, not being able to accurately fly one in IMC could ruin someones day.

[IO540]

However it must be the case that a hold flown at 100kt is going to be about half the linear size of one flown at 200kt - using Rate 1 turns in both cases.

So a spamcan pilot would have to be a helluva long way off to come out of the area used by holding jet traffic.

[FlyingForFun]

Bl00dy typical - I go off-line for a few weeks and when I get back everyone's started diaries and I don't have the time to catch up on everything I've missed! At least Obs had the decency to only start his diary shortly before I got back on-line, unlike Mazzy whose diary is in full-swing already! ;) :D

Keep it up, guys - good luck with the training, and thanks for taking the time and effort to write it up - I know how difficult that can be!

FFF
---------------

[Obs cop]

Hour 2

My apologies for those who may feel that this diary does not have the frequency of updates that other diaries enjoy. Like many who amble along in the private flying forum (I suspect anyway), I can only generally get airbourne once a week or so.

Instrument flying is quite clearly a practised art, a fact becoming ever so evident to me this afternoon. I was going to be developing my skills from merely being able to fly on instruments to actually using them to navigate. Hence the addition to my instruments to scan of the OBI (Omnidirectional Bearing Indicator). Basically this fine instrument tells you whether you are left or right of a desired track to or from a selected VOR beacon. As it is quite a complicated instrument to explain, it is best left to my new found bedtime reading material "The Air Pilot's Manual - Volume 5", suffice to say initially it caused me a couple of minor upsets.

I arrived at the airfield full of anticipation today as unlike my previous flight, there were actually some clouds about and I might actually get some proper un-hooded IFR flight time. My instructor was still airbourne in a different aircraft so I took the opportunity of uncovering and pre-flighting the aircraft. Once completed, I settled in to a nice cup of coffee and 15 minutes later we started briefing. We covered where we were going to operate (Daventry VOR), the route out and the exercises we were going to fly. Never one to miss an opportunity, I reaffirmed my read up homework and we discussed the OBI and how to use it. This included the set up proceedure TITO.

T Tune in the required beacon.
I Identify the beacon.
T Test the beacon/instrument.
O Orientate the Instrument.

My aircraft has a combined GPS (only ever used for remaining clear of controlled airspace!), Comms radio and Nav radio set up. So I have quite a complex piece of kit to learn on but all becomes more relevant later.

We walked out to the aircraft, started up as usual and off we went. I took the chance during the startup to set the Nav radios, but due to the fact we were on the ground and were not within a line of sight of the beacon, it obviously gave no indication. Once airbourne and departing to the Southeast the OBI came alive and I set 130 on the OBI which was the QDM towards the Daventry beacon from our location before turning towards a heading of 130. I was given the grace of being allowed to identify the beacon and test it before the dreaded hood. Each beacon transmits a morse code 3 letter identifier along with it's navigational signal and by turning the Nav audio on, you can listen to this morse signal and identify you have the correct beacon. Sure enough Delta Tango Yankee came over my headset and I then tested the instrument. I simply did this by cahnging the frequency of the nav radio, watching the OBI needle go to the side and the warning flag come up. This told me that the intrument was not recieving any signals from a VOR and on restoring DTY, the needle came back and the flag vanished telling me I had a nav signal. I had already orientated it to 130 so all of my checks were complete and on went the hood.

Cool, now I had an 8th instrument to play with. I had my 6 flight instruments, my tachometer and now the OBI. I was mesmerised by the needle, following it's slow but deliberate movement away from the centre. I was going off track so skillfully, I used my AI to enter a right turn and my DI to set the heading of 140. Hey how hard can this be. But wait, why am I 200 feet too low, no problems, back to the AI, raise the nose a touch and bing.....ohh why am I flying 120 degrees, I want 140. No problemo, slight turn to the right and whadya know I'm too high and still off track. Why won't it turn right to 140? Like a muppet, I had a new toy and had stopped my scan, missing the fact I was flying out of trim and spending too long looking away from my AI.

A thorough self administered beating later, I had forced myself to revert to a proper scan. There are 2 types of basic scan, a radial scan used if you are on autopilot or such like where all you are looking for is inconsistancies in instrument indications to alert you of problems and what I would call a "spoke" scan. Imagine the AI is the hub of a bicycle wheel and with this it becomes your primary focus. From this point spokes radiate out to each of the other required instruments. Most of your attention is focused on the AI as it is your attitude information and hence with your power setting determines the aircraft's performance. From the AI you glance to single instruments before going back to the AI. For example to maintain straight and level you may go from your AI to your DI to check your heading, back to your AI to ensure you are maintaining attitude, then to your altimeter to check your altitude and again back to your AI. Every now and again you can then insert a check of your ASI or slip ball to check balance etc.

Now I had the thing in control again, we tracked all the way to DTY and as planned flew through the overhaed to examine what happens. To cut a long story short, VOR beacons don't transmit a signal directly above and so as you close, the OBI becomes very sensitive and then goes off to one side showing no signal before coming back to life on the far side. As it does so, the to flag changes to from to tell you that the set OBI heading is going to take you away from the beacon. We continued for 3 to 4 miles before doing a rate 1 turn to the right. The intention ws to set up an intercept of the 360 track to DTY but with my turn and the wind, we ended up pretty much overhead the neacon. With 360 set on the OBI I flew 330 waiting for the needle to move in from the left. Not a flicker. We should have neen well away from the overhead, why wasn't the needle moving? I turned further left to 320. Still nothing. Putting me out of my misery my instructor pointed out that the magnetic compass was showing a heading of 350 to that of my DI which had drifted well away. DI brought back to 350, a turn to the left and bingo, the needle on the OBI , moved, I was getting back on track. I'm concentrating on the instruments that much, I am scaring myself with the fact I have lost a lot of my basic airmanship skills. My hope is that as I become more attuned to my new environment, I will have more mental capacity to bring them back in, but then hey, last week I couldn't fly a specified track on a VOR. Now I can. We went North and then turned 180 degrees and practices an intercept of the 180 QDM (heading towards a beacon as opposed to QDR which is a radial from a beacon).

After a bit more VOR tracking we headed back to the field where we set up for a straight in approach. This gave me the chance to try my first ILS approach. Put simply it is just a much more sensitive VOR which gives glideslop information. Working to IMC limitations, my decision height would be 800' on the QNH (the decision height is based on a number of factors but IMC limitations are more restrictive than those applied to an Instrument rated pilot). The concentration was intense, but I managed to nail the track at 2000 feet altitude and as the aircraft drifted right of my chosen track of 230, I went to 220. This brought the needle back into the middle and I then bisected the 2 headings hoping 225 would be a good wind adjusted heading to track me down the centrline. All was looking good until I ganced at the glideslope indicator which was racing past the middle of my instrument. Damn, I haven't even started a descent yet. Carb heat hot, power to 1900 and stuff the nose down 5 degrees. Phew it's coming back. I'm quite a modest person usually, but nailed the approach. Although I was sweating and couldn't talk, I nailed it. 800 feet, hood up and there she was in all her daylight bathed tarmac glory, runway 23. Another hour airbourne, 50 minutes instrument time logged amd lesson over.

Todays lesson in summary, if you can't or even won't scan properly........

Stick to VFR. For me anyway this needs serious practice and I would say that with 75 hours experience it is readily achievable, but far more demanding in terms of piloting skills than the PPL.

Have a nice week, I hope to be flying in the middle of the week - A VOR and NDB based nav route.

Obs cop

PS. I only know of 30 seconds of actual IFR in the clouds! Today I was mainly hooded again.:{

[S-Works]

are you doing this at Coventry by chance in there 152?

[Obs cop]

Bose-x

I certainly am flying a 152 from Coventry, but I will stress that the diary was and is not intended to reflect any organisations, but rather my experiences, high and lows.:ok:

Obs cop

[S-Works]

It is your experiances that are great to read. Keep them coming!

It was just your comment about the combined GPS that led the trail there! As far as I know the only 152 that has that level of fit apart from our 2 is AFT's! I was sat in it the other day comparing notes!

[Penguina]

Fascinating read!

I think I may have to do an IMC somehow... (apart from anything else I'd probably lose half a stone: sounds exhausting!)

:ok:

[SQUAWKIDENT]

Excellent read again - thank you.

SlimFast? Who needs it when you're doing an IMC course!

Regards

Adam

[mazzy1026]

Great summary Obs :ok:

I done a post in my diary regarding instrument flying as I done ex19 the other day. Learning at my level certainly requires a hell of a lot of concentration and focus, it really took it out of me the first time, so I can respect how difficult it must be at your level. I too like the spoke style scan, rather than go round the instruments in a radial, I prefer to start at the AI, then to altitude, back to AI, then to VSI etc. I find this helps keep a better attitude as you are looking at the AI more, and in turn will help you keep all the other instruments in tune.

This thread makes me wanna do an IMC and I aint even got my PPL yet :E

Keep up the good work!

Maz :)

[IO540]

If I was teaching somebody I care about to fly, I would do the PPL stuff plus what is needed for IFR (IMC) flight and instrument approaches. That's the baseline for safe UK flying.

The IMCR is also pretty well essential for pre-planned flight in the UK - even if many flights actually take place in what happens to be probably legal VFR conditions.

Sadly, a decent aircraft and decent currency ON TYPE are equally essential, and one can't teach those...

I am getting out of here before I get shot down by all those retired old boys, living close to the airfield, who say "you can go everywhere VFR, young man" :O

One more thing though... I found the IMCR training to be a real grind too, so these diaries make disturbing reading for me. The key to it being a lot more pleasant is to do it in a decent plane with decent avionics, plus building it up gradually and not doing the hard stuff until one has decent situational awareness. But that would take more than the min prescribed 15 hrs and I don't think many students would be too keen on that.

[Obs cop]

Thanks all for the comments guys.

There are a few factors that are undoubtedly making rhe IMC rating easier and some that are making it harder in my particular case. In no particular order:

Helping

Flew 30 hours in last year, 27 of which were in the exact aircraft I am doing the IMC in - as close to current on type as I can get!
Same instructor as for my PPL and conversion onto PA28.
Getting on well with instructor.
Same airfield as my PPL.
Previous instrument training (all be it some years ago:O ) courtesy of the Royal Navy, including NDB let downs, PAR's and SRA's.
Well equiped aircraft.
Desire.
Ex-Royal Navy Observer so used to no view out of the window.:}

Hindering

Lack of continuity - only 1 hour per week.
Motion sickness (life long hinderance).
Only 75 ours total light aircraft experience.
Studying for ATPL's at same time.

IO540, I agree with many of your sentiments, but would add that it is more important to do instrument training in say a well equipped C150/152 than a poorley equipped C182. In otherwords, the fit is more important than the airframe, but ideally you would be best with a nice stable easy to fly airframe with a good fit. IMHO:ok:

I'm off to read up on NDB's now.....

Obs cop

[DRJAD]

Obs Cop,

Thanks for the diary, and please keep it coming. Takes me back to my IMCR training last autumn.

(I particularly enjoyed your reference, in your second hour, to the 'glideslop' {sic} - may be accurate as a description!)

Reference Holds, they certainly formed a goodly part of my training, both VOR and NDB holds, left and right. There was an element of being asked to fly a couple of holds in the examination, but I think that was for enjoyment, rather than as an integral part of the examination itself.

Good luck.

[Obs cop]

DRJAD,

Ah paying too much attention.;) I hadn't noticed the slip when proof reading, but then I am but a passing ship to the complexities of the ILS, despite the one down many to go.

It just so happens that my next trip is a nav route involving NDB's but I have just reached the same section in my ATPL notes. I now have a vague inkling of the inner workings, but can anyone help me out as to why some stations need BFO (beat frequency oscillator) selected on to ident and others off. I think it relates to the fact that NON A1A beacons (long range, offshore etc.) interupt the carrier wave to carry the ident and NON A2A don't.

Answers on postcard or this thread please,

My Tuesday flight was cancelled so it's a little wait for the next one, but my head is in the books again.:(

Obs cop

[IO540]

Last time this one came up, the answer was that NO NDB in the UK needs a BFO.

But if it did, the answer would be with the way the ident is generated. If it is AM (in which case the carrier is constantly transmitted) then a BFO is not needed. A BFO is needed only if there is no modulation and the carrier itself is being turned on/off with the morse code.

It is possible this is a fossil in the ATPL syllabus...

[Pull Back]

Hi fellow lovers of the sky........ ;)

Whilst we are on the subject of the IMCR, reading this thread has spurred me into planning to complete (er.. start should I say:D) it sooner rather than later.

When would you say is the best time to do the IMC ground exam?

I cannot find any reference to it needing to be complete prior to starting the training.

To start with I thought perhaps before starting just to get it out of the way, then I thought that it may be better in the middle after some practical experience, then I thought I'd ask the people in the know!!

Any opinions gratefully received,

PB

[DRJAD]

Just did mine when I turned up at the airfield one day and the weather was too bad for IMC training!

It meant the journey to/from the club was not wasted. I had, though, started the practical training by then.

[Obs cop]

Pull back

You don't need to have done the exam to start the training, however the material in the books is terribly dry.

Further more, going through it from the text alone with no experience just confused heck outa me.

For my thoughts, I feel doing the exam in the middle of the course makes it easier (course and exam) because you can relate the text more readily to what you are doing. Beyond this I am the world's worst studier and knowing for example I will be doing NDB tracking next forces me to learn about the damn things!:rolleyes:

In essence, having an idea as to what you are pinning the knowledge to practically, makes it easier to remember and easier to implement. Wait until you read about intercepting NDB QDM's and QDR's.

It is however worth speaking to the school where you intend to do the training as they may have some more suggestions or even a preferred method.

Obs cop

[Pull Back]

Obs cop, DRJAD

Thanks for the suggestion, I think I'll go for the mid course, makes sense to get some practical experience to enforce book 5.

Cheers

Pull Back

PS Obs cop thanks for starting the diary, definate food for thought :D Keepit going!!

[Obs cop]

Cheers Pullback,

I hope it is enjoyable and informative to read;)

Obs cop

[Obs cop]

Hour 3

From discussion with my instructor, it would appear the first few hours are aimed at teaching how to fly on instruments, and this progresses from the basic 6 plus tacho, to include how to track VOR and NDB beacons.

Hence hour 3 was basically more of the same. It has been over 10 days since I last flew and boy don't I know it. With a briefing out of the way refreshing the last lesson, the scan and identifying and tracking VOR's we then discussed a basic route involving VOR navigation.

I went out and checked the aircraft as usual and got my substantial frame levered into my trusty C152. The weather was moderate winds with significant cloud, broken at 2300 feet up to about 4000 for the tops. Looking at it from the ground it really didn't look forboding with nice fluffy cumulus floating by but hey, I am a romantic at heart. The plan was to get airbourne and established tracking inbound to the Daventry VOR at 1300 feet before me putting the hood on and off we would jolly well go.

It may be prudent to talk about visual limits now, particularly for takeoff. Reading the Air Pilot's Manual volume 5, the limits dictated for an IMC pilot to take off into cloud are a 600 foot cloud base (aal) and then 1800 metres visibility. My understanding is that the limit for visibility is mandatory and the cloud base is advisable, but I am in no position to argue and today I was in genuine IMC rating world. By that I mean that my skills could not be described as current and so the first few minutes under the hood had me meandering either side of my desired heading and altitude until I got my head round the scan again. This was much as I would imagine it to be for an IMC holder going into cloud with minimal currency. Not necessarily a problem, but definately concentrating the mind somewhat. I then thought about what it would be like to deliberately climb from an airfield into a 600 foot cloud base, without an autopilot. It was a sobering thought and whilst the limits for an IMC rating are quite restrictive over those of an IR, I can now see why and with each lesson expanding my knowledge and skills, I have an ever increasing acknowledgement as to why the weather needs respecting.

In any case, we went soaring off towards Daventry, climbing to 4000 feet as we went. The object of the flight was primarily to revise the instrument flying techniques and to practice VOR tracking. I was really struggling to maintain a heading and I always seemed to be veering off to the left. Scanning the AI... wings level....DI, turning. I then thought what is the turn co-ordinator saying.. in balance but left turn, how odd. A further look at the AI and I could now see that the wings level indication did not match the angle of bank pointer at the top. the difference being 2 or 3 degrees. Now this was really messing with my head as I reverted to the AI for pitch indication and the pointer at the top for bank, ignoring the wings for roll, and cross checking with the turn co-ordinator. Our track took us directly over the Daventry VOR into the zone of confusion (This is the area directly above a VOR where no useable signal is received.) As we went, I did get the chance to remove the hood only to be greeted by a thick bank of white surrounding the aircraft. Only too soon the cloud broke up a little and having increased my real time cloud busting to a grand total of 10 minutes I was back under the hood. I continued through the overhead for a couple of minutes before turning left to intercept the 010 radial. As I rolled out I could see the OBI was full left deflection meaning I was right of track, so I steered 330 for a 40 degree intercept. Nothing....... check the compass against the DI, yep that looks right, still nothing. Unbeknown to me the westerly wind was stronger than I had anticipated and we had gone quite far right of track. Patience is a virtue when you know the instruments are right and as the flag changed from to to from, the needle started to come back in.

Once I had figured out my wind corrected heading the outbound track was uneventful. We turned overhead the Leicester NDB and as we did so another aircraft reported Leicester NDB at 2500. It struck me that the safest way to fly in cloud must surely be to pick and obscure altitude like 3350 feet so that the chances of finding other at the same height are far slimmer.

That brings me onto the next step nicely. We then tracked back towards Daventry before breaking off towards home, self positioning to join the visual circuit at base. My instructor has commented that my standard of basic instrument flying is good and whilst he would normally continue with another hour or so of practice, we should get going on how to find our way around. Returning from our expeditions the objective is also to do some ILS' each time we come back. My next hour is a few days away, but we should be off doing VOR and NDB tracking up towards Staffordshire and back. I'm actually starting to enjoy this now and the feeling of accomplishment reminds me of each of the small hurdles in gaining the PPL in the first place.

Obs cop

[tmmorris]

Did almost exactly that (600ft cloudbase, better viz) yesterday - and I am a rusty-ish IMC holder. My excuse is that I took an instructor with me - it was meant as a refresher, and a very useful one too. Went to Cranfield and did an ILS, then back to Oxford where we planned a visual app. but the weather had failed to improve so it was an NDB app. down to minimums. All very interesting. First 10 minutes I was cr@p, but I got better - ILS went very well indeed, and I flew it on instruments down to 200ft which was very reassuring (we were actually visual at 700ft). NDB app. got interesting when I thought 189 degs was 9 degs right of the 'E' marking on the DI (instructor prodded me gently in the ribs and pointed out that this might not be correct...). Altogether a useful reminder of how easily these things can fade away.

Tim

[Obs cop]

Tim,

Just a little question for my benefit. How much would you say you have actually used your IMC rating in the last year? Oh also, what do you think is a reasonable minimum to maintain some sort of currency?

Cheers

Obs cop

[tmmorris]

Hmmmmm......

I fly 30-40 hours per year total, so I'm quite marginal in terms of currency. Actually used the IMC rating because I had to: never. Flown in actual IMC because I could (including VMC on top): 3 or 4 times. Flown IAPs for practice: 3 or 4 times.

I regard that as not quite enough for currency, hence my flight on Friday. I struck lucky with the weather: I'd expected to be on foggles for the trip. That said, I found I wasn't as bad as I'd expected.

I, personally, enjoy IF. I'm not sure that many people do, but I like the intellectual challenge. I keep my hand in with IAP profiles and situational awareness by flying procedures on Flight Sim - the default 172 is great for NDBs, for example, as long as you put realistic weather in, as (like real aircraft) it doesn't have an RMI. And you can look at the GPS or the 'flight analysis' screen (even better, as it's animated) to watch your horizontal & vertical profile. The GPS does a good job of painting your holding patterns on its screen, too, so you can laugh at your entries...

But I'll definitely be renewing the IMC next year. After all, my SEP renewal comes up anyway so I might as well take the IMCR test which will count for both.

Flying now from an RAF club, though, which requires 42-day currency for IF, i.e. a flight 'using the privileges of the rating' within the previous 42 days to qualify for flight in IMC. Not sure how they will define that, though: SVFR in 9500m visibility would do, after all...

Tim

[Obs cop]

Hour 4

The only new thing today was NDB tracking. Now a few had mentioned that this would be "interesting" and indeed they are correct.

We tracked from the Daventry VOR out towards Lichfield NDB and the line on the chart showed we should be tracking in on the 330 QDM. A quick ident of the beacon and away we went. However, it rapidly became apparent how outdated NDB's are. Their expected accuracies are +/- 6 degreeswhich over a 50 mile leg works out at 5 miles, assuming that you have set the DI accurately and fly the headings exactly. Allowing for me setting the DI out by one or two degrees:ugh: and then my inexact instrument skills we had an area of about +/- 10 degrees from the QDM, about 8 miles either side of track! Now a quick glance at the controlled airspace either side of Birmingham and East Midlands rapidly seems to become very tight and it wasn't long until my instructor asked me to track a QDM of 320 degrees to keep clear of controlled airspace.

I have to say the mental arithmetic of working out the bearings of the beacon and subsequent headings really took me unawares. Although when we turned overhead Lichfield the return QDR seemed much easier to follow (and accurate I might add) I'm wondering if anyone had any good tips for NDB tracking. My aircraft is quite basic and only has a DI and seperate ADF showing relative bearing (although the compass card under the ADF needle can be spun round).

Any of you IR/IMC boffins give us a clue here?

In the mean time, this was the second flight where I didn't get a chance to try for an instrument approach - spoiled by the incoming 737:{ For me they have been the most enlightening part of the course and I can't wait to do more.

Tim,

What sort of things did you cover in your refresher? And whilst I'm at it, do the flightsim navaids have real world attributes ie. ranges and accuracies?

Cheers

Obs cop

[tmmorris]

Basically a whole IFR flight except that Oxford didn't have an IFR departure slot, so we went VFR at 1000ft to the ATZ boundary, then climbed direct to the WCO NDB and got a radar service from Benson, then direct to the CFD VOR, entered the hold at the CIT NDB, flew a couple of holds, then the ILS (which is procedural i.e. no radar, so it's effectively an NDB approach until you go inbound, when you pick up the ILS); then missed approach, then back to Oxford via WCO for the Oxford NDB 19 approach. We didn't, though, do the unusual attitude recovery &c. which will need to be revised before I have the test next year.

Flight sim is a bit too accurate, really - it doesn't seem to model the crappiness of NDBs at all well, unfortunately, even with realism on full. I guess the dedicated (and expensive) IFR training stuff like On Top is better - no doubt someone on here will come along and tell us in a minute!

Tim

[Obs cop]

tmmorris,

Oh me god, I'm a long way off that yet, or at least that's how it feels. Mind you, the next hour is this Wednesday so I'd best keep building those blocks.

Daft question, but hey....
For an IFR departure slot, do you need a paper flightplan filed, or can you just call up for an IFR departure?


Guys,

can you give me some feedback as other than my updates I've got little to work with here?

It's not clear if what I am writing is good, bad, or even ugly, but the initial peak of interest has faded away somewhat and I am questioning the value in keeping up my efforts.

Cheers

Obs cop

[murphy1901]

Please keep the diary going Obs cop.

I'm reading but not posting any comments due to lack of knowledge! :O

Hoping to start my IMC this year and your write-ups are giving a great insight on what to expect. :ok:

[IO540]

OC

NDBs can play games with you; they are affected by terrain, water, weather. They are also damn hard to track when the ADF is mounted 3 feet away from the DI (which is often the case in training planes) which makes transposing the ADF reading onto the DI very difficult :O An RMI is the great solution for this, at about £3000+ but that just makes it all the more obvious how inaccurate the ADF can be.

For an IFR departure you don't need an ICAO flight plan; you just ask for it. The UK is unique in this I think; elsewhere it would probably mean an airways departure (SID) with a corresponding flight plan.

In practice, if the conditions aren't obviously atrocious, a lot of people depart "VFR" even if they enter IMC soon afterwards. The transition between VFR and IFR is something you can do as you wish - again the UK is very good in this respect.

I reckon 20-30 hours (ON TYPE) in IMC or poor VMC are needed to keep current enough to be able to fly any IAP as needed. Which means perhaps 50-100 hours a year total time.

[Aussie Andy]

OBS Cop - I too am lurking and reading, enjoying your posts very much as my IMC lessons start in two weeks now. I appreciate the time you are taking to type these up, and the Q&A which follows is also helpful. I was even reading this while on hols in the US via my BLackberry (but replying that way is too painful!)

Cheers mate!

Andy

[tmmorris]

Agree, I'd be much better if I could manage the hours IO540 suggests.

As he said, an IFR departure (outside CAS) only requires you to book one with ATC. Unfortunately at Oxford they are usually booked up for tests &c. Very irritating when they then don't use the slots they've booked and you sit there waiting for your slot watching nothing taxying out...

Advantage of an IFR departure, though, is that if you have nice ATC they will coordinate with your first en-route frequency, and if they have no radar will arrange to hand you over to a LARS provider or similar PDQ after departure. This is great when you are busy with the climb &c. as all you have to do is follow the departure procedure and do as you are told, and it's calculated to give you terrain clearance and procedural separation until you get onto radar. Several times safer than scud-running to the ATZ boundary and then punching into IMC below MSA - there's a dodgy minute or so when you are IMC below MSA and not on a standard procedure.

Tim

[Obs cop]

Cheers guys for the comments, I was beginning to think I was alone in here:{

IO540, Now I am probably in a similar boat to several others here in that I won't be doing 100 hours a year including 20 to 30 IMC. However, I expect to fly about 50 hours per year total and am thinking I will be doing about 10 to 15 of those per year IMC. In an ideal world I would obviously do more but until then... is this too few? I want the rating to help me, and I am very aware of the need to maintain the skills, but am I realistic that I can maintain my skills with this level? At the moment, I am looking at the IMC rating as a help me out for sh1tty weather not an IR on the cheap.

Just out of interest, I've got the bug now (instrument flying ain't exhilerating but it sure is challenging and satisfying), does anyone know how much would it cost to do an FAA/IR in the UK? Family commitments mean I can't go abroad:rolleyes:

Tim, I concur completely, below MSA and in IMC is not my place to be.

Thanks again all, hopefully flying again tomorrow

Obs cop

[IO540]

I don't think anybody can be precise about the # of hrs required for currency amd I didn't intend it to sound that way.

One thing is what one is flying, how well equipped it is and how much of the stuff works. With most people having to make do with very old planes, it is always controversial to suggest that a decent plane makes it easier, but it does! But a decent IFR plane is likely to cost upwards of £100k, and that is a 10 year old specimen. A new one is say £250k. But on something like that you may need only half the currency. And I am not referring to flying the ILS with the autopilot (which does make it awfully easy).

It comes down to cockpit workload. In training this is high and intentionally so. In reality almost everybody who flies IFR for real has a nice big GPS with the route programmed into it. One would track VOR/DME/NDB, as available, concurrently, to eliminate most gross errors and to have less work if something packed up. This way your workload is far less than you've ever seen in training.

Holds are flown very rarely in reality, and when they are they don't need to be perfect because the protected area is big enough for a 747!

Another one is autopilot. Only a masochist likes flying in IMC for hours - all it achieves is that you arrives tired for the stuff which really needs your brain. If you have an AP, you use it. I fly manually the last 20-30 miles but occassionally I do an ILS with the autopilot too.

I am starting on my FAA PPL/IR now and allowing for the max credit from the IMC Rating training one might need another 20 hrs or so, at say £50/hr plus whatever the plane costs to hire. So that makes it say £3000. A standalone FAA PPL is going to cost some £1.5k.

Regarding IFR departures, it isn't necessarily the case that the ATC actually does anything else beyond a) reading you your IFR clearance and b) making a slightly greater effort than usual to ensure there isn't somebody in the way. Certainly I've had IFR departures with no onwards contact arranged. However if departing into real muck I've generally had the next contact sorted - but then if the weather is bad enough for genuine IFR the radio will be pretty quiet anyway, and one can get RIS from big airports...

Finally, one can't be above the MSA when taking off or landing :O

[Obs cop]

IO540,

sorry, I wasn't trying to pin you down to an exact figure. At the end of the day, that really comes down to the blend of individual skill, experience and the aircraft. However, I am aware that some pilots only manage the 12 hours required to keep their ppl and even just for VFR I feel this is too little.

When are you planning on the IR? Have you used your IMC much in the meantime?

Cheers

Obs cop

[IO540]

IR, this year. I found an instructor who has both JAA and FAA ratings so he can teach it in my G-reg.

Once a plane goes N-reg, your IMCR becomes worthless (any IFR ops in an N-reg require an ICAO IR).

Your JAA/UK PPL becomes limited to day VMC only, UK only. So one needs an FAA PPL at least if flying an N-reg plane; not being to go abroad isn't very useful, generally.

I use the IMCR privileges a lot, certainly on >50% of flights. BUT this doesn't mean one flies in IMC all the time, or even much. It means one can do a flight which, on any prudent assessment of the weather, could never be done on a plain PPL. With a plain PPL, anytime there is actual or forecast cloud below the MSA, you can't go. In the UK, this alone means cancelling more than 50% of previously planned flights. With the IMCR, one might cancel perhaps 10-20%. On the day however, one often ends up in conditions which would not be actually illegal for a plain PPL (in sight of surface, basically :O ) It is just, as I say, that a PPL would (should!) never have gone.

Ocassionally, one departs into muck and sees nothing until coming out on the ILS at . But even if one is doing that, one might be VMC on top for most of the flight, which is pretty nice.

The usefulness of the IMCR depends on whether the destination has a useful IAP, and on the icing level. If you fly only into grass strips then the IMCR isn't likely to be very useful; the option to fly VMC on top is great but nobody should recommend with a straight face that somebody does that while not being able to fly an IAP at the end. If you go into larger airports, especially ones with an ILS, then it is the best single thing you can do to help your flying (apart from buying your own plane :O ).

The IMCR is worthless abroad for IFR although (there is some dissent on this one but the CAA have confirmed it in writing) having it does remove the "in sight of surface" restriction on the PPL, allowing one to fly VMC on top in a lot of places. One has to get down somehow of course, and legally without going through cloud. In practice, this offers some leeway regarding acceptable weather even outside the UK.

As a safety enhancement, instrument flight is unbeatable. Far safer above the MSA, in IMC, especially with a decent GPS, than below the MSA anywhere.

[Port Strobe]

ObsCop, keep the diary coming, I'm finding your take on the IMC interesting. Thanks for the time you put into it.

[Obs cop]

Thanks for that IO540. I don't do a lot of grass strip flying, mainly large airfields so I'm expecting it to be quite handy.

Port strobe,

I'm finding your take on the IMC interesting

Is my take on the IMC particularly odd?;) I feel a complex coming on now:p

Obs cop

[tmmorris]

One problem I've found with keeping currency is the rules on simulated IF. To log instrument hours means either flying in real IMC - which means seeking it out when there's perfectly good VMC around, not necessarily the safest option in your average flying school spamcan - or bringing another pilot along to act as safety pilot. In practice therefore I find it difficult to get enough IMC hours in without planning especially to do so.

On the question of that 'safety pilot': I've seen it quoted before that they have to be rated on type/class, but it doesn't say that in the ANO, at least not in the bit about simulated flight in IMC. Anyone know where the reference to qualifications is? I've got a couple of airline pilot friends who would make excellent safety pilots but neither has a current SEP rating.

Tim

[Obs cop]

Hour 5

Another bostin day for flying and another under the hood.:{

Mind you, there is a definate purpose to what I am trying to achieve so with that in mind it is much more enjoyable than being on the ground. In any case, today's plan was a radio aid navex routing from coventry via Lichfield NDB, Trent VOR, East to intercept the Gamston VOR to track south towards Leicester NDB and then back to Coventry NDB for tea, stickies and medals. Sounded simple but there were 3 areas of concern before I even got airbourne.

1. With the hood on, cockpit management is a nightmare and even more so as todays flight was to be in a PA28 as my regular mount was booked up.

2. I would be doing 2 crossings of class D airspace, something I hadn't done for a while.

3. Oh did I mention the cockpit management in an unfamiliar aircraft!

In essence, my fears were quickly allayed by a few aids. My usual mount does not have DME but the PA28 does, so at least I will now be able to figure out distances aswell. The second is not obvious from the ground.

Checks, takeoff etc. were uneventful but I did take the chance to set up my nav radios early to ease my workload. I have flown this particular PA28 before and to be honest I really enjoy flying them much more than a 152. But once clear of mother earth, we encountered huge amounts of turbulence and quite a hefty wind from the East. A quick climb ensued and by 700 feet agl I was under the hood. My track of the Lichfield NDB seemed much better today compared to last flight and I tracked all the way to it quite well. We had climbed to 3000 feet and I was doing some but not all of the radio calls. In reality, my brain is just starting to free up some of its capacity from the instruments, but only just. Just prior to LIC I called East Midlands and asked for an area transit. They were spot on, and granted us our route direct from LIC to the Trent VOR. Now my excellent ground based idea of pre-tuning the VOR fell apart when I idented it. The morse ident was DTY.:confused:

Ah.. quick check, I had set the DME to Trent (TNT) thinking it was the VOR and ended up forgetting to set the VOR up. Quite an easy mistake to make in an unfamiliar cockpit, but I impressed myself with the fact that I figured it out so efficiently and quickly. Dialled up to TNT, I quickly idented the VOR and tested it as we got to LIC. Reporting on top LIC I got my clearance to enter East Mids area to cross at 3000 with a FIS. My track to TNT and then outbound from it on the 090 radial was quite uneventful and I then continued the route offering my instructor the envied luxury of a great view of Nottingham City.

By using the Nottingham NDB, I could easily figure out when I was going to be near to the 190 Gamston VOR radial, so re-tuning the VOR and identing it to Gamston I patiently waited for the needle to move. And almost on cue it did. It was about now that I figured the improvement in my flying was probably more down to the plane than me. The PA28 is a far more stable instrument platform than a bouncy 152 and bar the odd deviation I was now maintaining +/- 100 feet and +/- 5 degrees of indicated heading. Now these are no great accuracies I know, but hey this is a learnt skill, and after only 4 hours practice under the hood I think I'm getting there.

Having intercepted the gamstom VOR quite well we were tracking south and I made a further call to East Mids to transit the Eastern end of their Area this time. I must have been near to their climb out area as on entering their area I went from being under a FIS to Radar Control. In effect, this was their way of saying yes you can come in, but only if we control your height and heading to prevent confliction with other traffic. I behaved myself and lo and behold, we tracked direct towards the Leicester NDB with no need to change heading or height. Given practice, NDB tracking is not too bad, and after a short while we went through Leicester's overhead and turned for Coventry. We were positioned well for an ILS to runway 23 but with an easterley wind, we had to settle for a visual join on downwind for 05.

My instructor was more than happy with the flight and so we are now going to move onto the 3rd stage of the IMC course. I can (apparently:} )fly with sole reference to instruments and can now find my way around. Next is getting back onto to ground................the bit I have been looking forwards to most. With this in mind we are going in at the challenging end and will be looking at NDB approaches, back in the 152 with no DME.:{

If anyone is considering an IMC rating and can do it in a nicely equipped PA28 then do so, by a long way a far more stable instrument platform than Mr Cessna's twin seat trainer for the masses. Shame I have limited resources or I would do all 15 hours in a PA28.

Cheers

Obs cop

[Obs cop]

Half way

A few of the lessons so far have had the odd 10 minutes or so on the end, so I have now done just over 7 hours which is half way, give or take 20 mins in the logbook.

Anyway,

We had planned for NDB approaches for this lesson and I can tell you it was one I was not really looking forawrds to. The hardest thing is the mental agility required as the ADF needle is not overlaid on your DI and so you have a continual fight figuring out where you need to be headed. Typically the weather was glorious.

As a side issue, for those who want to know when to slap the suncream on a bunk a day off work, PM me and I'll let you know when I am flying next. Monday to Wednesday this week, dire windy gloomy weather. Thursday, IMC lesson, 20k vis, no clouds loads of sun.:{

The astute may well know that I fly from Coventry and the idea of learning NDB approaches whilst avoiding wake turbulence from a 737 and constantly getting in the way of faster twins doing IR's is not really what I would call good sport. So the plan was to head over to Leicester and to practice a simulated approach using their NDB, to runway 28. All was well and good until we took off. We simulated an IMC departure so no sooner had I reached 500 feet and started to turn crosswind before departing from the downwind, than my instructor took control and my hood came down. I then went onto instruments and found it very hard to level out. I had gone onto instruments in a steady balanced climbing turn, and I had to force myself to follow and trust the AI. My "seat of the pants" believed that our climbing turn was indeed level and I had my first episode of the leans since my first lesson. The past few hour experience did however help because my scan has developed so that I can now easily cross check the instruments to reassure my head that the AI is not lying, my backside is.

The transit to Leicester was uneventful and I am now doing about 60% of the radio calls. ATC deals with us as if we are VFR and so I can't call overheads or traffic, but my awareness and capacity seems to be improving. The optimism is short lived however..................:\

The first thing we did having homed the Leicester NDB was a hold. Now whilst I had always thought these would be a perfect oval, I couldn't have been further from the truth. The wind means that virtually all holds will become a pear shape for the following reason. All turns are rate 1 and so in still air would have constant radius, but neading into wind the radius is smaller and with a tailwind, the radius becomes larger. We turned overhead the beacon and in doing so turned into wind. Thus our turn ended up being quite tight and it left us with an outbound track close to the beacon. This is altered by varying your heading by 3 times the wind correction angle towards the wind, and the result is a track that distances your aircraft from the inbound track. When you then turn back towards your inbound track, your new found tailwind greatly increases your turn radius, but because you positioned out wider in the first place, theoretically you end up right on track for your inbound run.:confused: :( :{

We tried a hold, with my instructor guiding me through it, and bingo, it worked. The practice is far easier than my description indicates, but it takes a huge amount of wherewithall to keep the plane on the numbers. We went from the hold into an NDB approach to 28. Whoa there, this plane has no pilot. It does however have a sweating imbecile who can no longer track a set QDM, work a timer and figure out altitude changes at the same time. Beacon out bound, set heading, start clock and wait for the turn. 30 seconds elapse before I realise I should have been descending from 2000 to 1500 feet on the outbound leg. Now my scan gets rushed as I try to get down in the remaining time before I have to start the turn inbound. I'm behind the aircraft and the guidance from my right is essential just to keep me there. 2 minutes 30, 1500 feet, level off and start the turn, and there is a God as I roll out on a QDM of 280. Vary my heading by 10 degrees to the south and hope, and DESCEND:{ Missed it again, but now only by 5 or 6 seconds. Following the QDM in, we continue all the way to our 600' minimum descent height (MDH) which we maintain al the way to the overhead and into a missed approach.

The second attempt was far less eventful, but time was of the essence and so we had to head back to base. The initial plan was to self position for an ILS but a 737 was inbound and corporate traffic screaming through the CT overhead meant we couldn't even play NDB homing on the way back. So, obviously curve ball time as my AI and DI was failed. The result was my first attempt at partial panel.

I sweated over my best friend the turn coordinator, left the throttle well alone and made tiny adjustments on the control column. So far so good, but we had to descend to get under Birmingham's airspace which put us right in the middle of the turbulence. Now if you have ever tried to balance a pencil on it's tip on your finger you know what I am going through. Tiny moments of joy and elation as it appears to be balanced, followed by the realisation that it's moved and without a quick but delicate touch you could well lose it. This is the most demanding thing I have done so far, my capacity vanished, my RT became sloppy and my brain hurt.

Next lesson,

Unusual attitudes and recovery on full and partial panel.

My studying is going well and so I took a mock exam and got 88%, so I'll probably try for the real thing at my next lesson as well.

For those who have been following this, I hope it goes some way to describing what is in the syllabus (which in itself is very flexible). For those who are considering doing an IMC, ask yourself how easy you found your PPL. I would suggest, the harder you found the PPL, then the more experience you get before starting an IMC rating the better. It will almost certainly make you a better pilot and increases your knowledge dramatically, but I feel I massively underated the amount of effort and ability required. It is terribly rewarding however.

Regards

Obs cop

[Aussie Andy]

Cool OBS Cop - an anjoyable read!

I did my IMC lesson number one today - great fun! It does make your brain ache a bit: how feeble one feels as the thinking gets harder!

Andy ;)

[murphy1901]

Informative as ever and entertainingly written too Obs cop!

Your last paragraph has reinforced what I was thinking re starting my IMC. I've only completed around 15 hours since gaining my PPL and (worse still!) just completed the check-out in the Arrow which would be used for IMC training.

Now while (in all modesty) I didnt find the PPL difficult, I rekon I'll need a good few more hours in the Arrow to get used to its handling and to the different panel and nav. aids before starting my IMC.

I must admit you are certainly opening my eyes to how difficult instrument flying can be to learn! :uhoh:

[LowNSlow]

Keep it coming Obs Cop brings back fond memories of doing my IMC many moons ago. Unfortunately for me, after tucking the C150 into the hangar my instructor said the fateful words "fancy a go in the Twin Com". I ended up doing my multi rating in the Twin Commanche and my IMC in a C150 in parallel. Quite entertaining juggling the different speeds etc as I went from one aircraft to another. Ah well I was younger then and had more of my brain cells working! Unfortunately both ratings are long since lapsed and I spend my flying time attempting to influence the direction my pet Auster choses to go as we wend our way from one grass strip to another.

[Cabotage Kid]

IO540,

With a plain PPL, anytime there is actual or forecast cloud below the MSA, you can't go.
There is no specific issue (legal or practical) with flying below the MSA in VMC.

[Obs cop]

Cabotage Kid,

By my reckoning there is a 500 foot window of opportunity for VNC beneath MSA.

You can't fly closer than 500 feet to any structure and the MSA is generally 1000' above the highest structure/obstacle. Hence I figure if the cloud base is at MSA you have 500 foot to play with, any lower than MSA and you limit the available airspace (assuming you don't just meander through the tall obstacles 500' from the ground!)

Just my thoughts,


Murphy,

Whilst in my IF infancy, from a learning point of view the following may be of note for you. The Arrow is quite a bit quicker than a 152 and thus 2 main things will affect you. Firstly you will cover the ground a bit quicker which will require more effort to keep ahead of the plane. Secondly, a rate 1 turn at higher speeds is far greater radius, meaning you will need to be more accurate when intercepting radials and the ILS. Whilst both are slight negatives, I found the warrior (and therefore the Arrow I would summise) to be great for IMC work because it is a far more stable aircraft than a 152 = less work needed to hold headings (Oh and rudder trim is very usefull). I would suggest that you get very familiar with the cockpit because cockpit management is a nightmare with a hood/goggles on. You have no peripheral vision so knowing where switches, gauges etc. are helps big time and again cuts down on your workload.

Oh and finally, if anyone else is currently doing their IMC rating, please feel free to post on this thread as knowledge shared is better than knowledge kept.

Regards

Obs cop

PS At least I can then laugh with other's misfortune.

[Cabotage Kid]

Obs,

VFR MSA is usually calculated as 10nm either side of your track as opposed to IFR MSA which is usually 5nm either side of track. The MSA is the heigher of 1300' above terrain or 1000' above structures. In many sitations it is a pretty straight forward business to fly below the MSA in VMC without dodging things and still being 2000' clear of the ground.

[Obs cop]

Cabotage,

your post seems to contradict itself unless I am being particularly thick.

If your MSA is 1300' above the ground, how can you fly at 2000' and be below your MSA? Surely if you are 2000' above the terrain then you are above your MSA as that is only 1300' above terrain.

Obs cop

[Gertrude the Wombat]

If your MSA is 1300' above the ground, how can you fly at 2000' and be below your MSA? Because the MSA is calculated on the 5nm either side of track, but you might be competent enough to fly visually right down the middle of the valley?

(Or, I gather, it's usually more polite to fly down the right hand side of the valley, treating the valley's centre line as a "line feature" that you keep on your left.)

[Cabotage Kid]

Obs,

Appologies, you are not being think it is my lousy text. The obstacle is at 1300 so the MSA is 2300.

I don't wish to get hung up about this as there are not specific rules on the subject so the term "the MSA" is a little misleading. I just wanted to point out that flying VFR below 'the MSA' is pretty common practice and so is VFR flying below a cloudbase which is below the MSA. Obviously, should you inadvertantly fly into cloud you need to climb to the MSA and then can't descend until visual with the ground again.

BTW, I'm enjoying your thread very much and am glad I'm not the only one to find the ADF less than easy!

Cheers,
CK.

[Obs cop]

No problems Cabotage,

Just checking my maths skills had not failed me:} Glad you are enjoying the diary, next flight is on Friday. Something I have never said before is that I hope there is plenty of cloud about!

Obs cop

[Obs cop]

Lesson Seven

I am now getting quite upset as yesterday there was a significant amount of cloud about, and being quite sad I was looking forwards to some genuine IMC. But, yet again I an jinxed as we have had crystal clear blue skies this morning.

The briefing was fairly straightforwards as today we would be looking at what is in effect the emergencies area of the IMC rating. The easiest way to triple the workload of IMC flying is to lose the suction which in most aircraft powers the AI and DI. Fortunately, designers being clever people have provided enough bits that you would still be able to remain upright and could subsequently land.

Partial panel or limited panel leaves you with 5 main instruments, 3 pressure (ASI, Altimeter and VSI), one magnetic compass and the turn coordinator. Lastly you have your tacho for power settings, which in the absence of an AI become quite important.

The pressure instruments now pretty much remain as before, but due to the lack of AI, they now become the primary indicators for pitch, by using ASI to climb at a set speed and altimiter to fly level. Using them is quite simple in isolation, but putting them into your scan correctly take practice.

The magnetic compass has very little short term stability and due to magnetic dip, can be somewhat temperamental around northerly and southerly headings. Moreover, it is very hard to use in turns, and so in IMC, we tend to revert to rate 1 turns and timing the turn.

The most impressive instrument is the turn co-ordinator. This is an electrically powered rate gyro, in that it will tell you the rate of change of a particular movement. If mounted fore and aft, it whould only give you the rate of change of heading and therefore your rate of turn (as used in turn and slip indicators), but it is mounted at a 30 degree angle to the horizontal so that it also registers a rate of change of bank. This simple change means that it becomes quite sensitive and can tell you if the plane is changing heading or angle of bank. The pilot's problem is that you cannot easily differentiate between the two at a glance. If the instrument is level then you are flying straight, and your bank angle is not changing, but you could have a steady 15 degrees of bank and a bootfull of opposite rudder. Your angle of bank isn't changing and due to the out of balance flight with the rudder, neither is your heading. The instrument will indicate wings level even though they are not. The solution is quite simply to be in balanced flight at all times. If you are in balanced flight, then the only time the turn co-ordinator is level is when the wings are level, you are not turning and you are not cahnging your angle of bank.

We flew out towards Daventry and to the North and climbed to 4000' to give us some room to play. The hood went on at about 500' and I tracked quite tidily out to the Daventry VOR before turnind North. My ability and awareness seems to be getting much better as I could fly and talk and operate the plane without losing the plot. I was, as they say "Ahead of the plane". A pleasant treat before the upcoming events.:ugh:

Once established at 4000' we started to look at some unusual attitudes and recovery. With the AI this was quite easy as nose high is a similar recovery to a stall, ie. full throttle, lower the nose and roll wings level. Again for nose low, the recovery is the same as for a spiral dive, power off, roll the wings level then ease out of the dive. As there was nothing dramatic, we moved quickly on and wouldn't you know it, the suction failed. How spooky, we had only just been talking about that before the flight.:}

Transferring my scan to the remaining instruments was fairly easy, but the concentration required was immense. Without the pitch and roll information combined I quickly found myself behind the aircraft. I could stop it turning, but every time I looked away from the altimeter, it climbed or descended by 150' and every time I concentrated on getting level, the turn co-ordiantor veered off. I could have hung wall paper more easily wiht one hand than this. And now the voice from my right wants me to fly a set heading. Surely man is not capable of such a monstrous feat of human endeavour!. Now I had had 5 minutes of intro to partial panel in my last lesson, but my subconcious had obviously thought better of retaining that knowledge. We now had a 10 minute fight where I finally beat the aircraft into submission and managed to glimpse the delights of straight and level flight on a set heading.

The next step was a timed turn. Now, the rate 1 turn is 3 degrees per second which means all of a sudden I have the overwhelming desire to fly headings that are multiples of 30. No such luck, as my ineptitude meant my first turn was 32 seconds to reach heading. Roll out and wait for the compass, and realise I am nowhere near my desired heading needing a further turn for 7 seconds. Why am I at 3700'? Never mind, maintain heading, climb back up and then we try two complete turns. I manage to get withing 20 degrees with each and personally feel quite chuffed at that. Then into unusual attitudes.

The recovery is the same as for full panel and indeed, the various nose high attitudes don't seem to cause much problem. What does take me aback is how firm you need to be in rolling level when doing the nose down attitudes. In short, depsite my fears, the previous stuff practiced in the lesson seemed to help markedly and it all went quite smoothly.

We returned back towards base using partial panel and were offered an SRA approach. Never one to say no we said yes and just as we did, the suction started to work again. Now I quite like SRA's as all I have to do is what I am told (something my wife would probably want me to do at home:E ). The controller was very calm and spouted huge amounts of information at me. What did make me chuckle was the request to check my gear was down. So I obliged by looking out to my left to make sure our fixed gear hadn't mysteriously vanished, but no there it was. Following the instructions had us pop out of simulated cloud pointed at the threshold of runway 23 for landing.

All told an enjoyable but hard lesson. What it has done is improved my awarness of flying in balance and my confidence in interpreting limited panel. What it has taught me is that in a real suction failure, partial panel situation I will be making as much use of assistance as I can using such things as radar vectors to ILs or SRA approaches.

Cheers

Obs cop

[tmmorris]

Agree, SRAs are very useful. Gloucester do a great job despite only having primary radar.

Never done a PAR, though: I imagine they're rather hard work (like flying an ILS but he tells you where the needles would be, basically!)

Tim

[Obs cop]

tmmorris,

Had a crack at a couple of PAR's in the military. Indeed, my first go was in a Hawk recovering to Boscombe Down.:D The reality of my skills was :D :eek: :ugh: :}

To be fair, they are not as hard as an ILS because there is no pilot interpretation (spelling?). Normally they operate on a dedicated frequency with just one talkdown controller and one pilot on the frequency. This means you get an almost constant stream of position and instructions. They give you the headings and tell you if you are high or low on glideslope and whether you are correcting. Compared to an ILS, you just have to fly the numbers accuartely and do as you are told.

By the way, my latter attempts were in a Grob115 and proved a little easier to keep ahead of the aircraft!

Obs cop

[Obs cop]

Lesson Eight


Apologies for the delay in updating the diary, but work and my 1 year old daughter have taken most of my time in the last week or so.

I'm currently preparing for the IMC rating exam and so I there is a slight delay in the airbourne stuff, but boy Saturday's lesson was great.

I was sat in one of the briefing rooms with my instructor and wouldn't you believe it, the rain started. This was really exciting and sad as it meant I was looking forwards to some clouds. This was to be a fantastic and rewarding day, as I had fully planned my own IFR nav route from Coventry to Daventry, Cranfield and return via Sywell and Leicester, then a self positioned ILS. The first flaw was that according to the charts, Sywell has an NDB beacon...........not so.

A good check of the plane and then off we went, under the hood at 600' and outbound in the climb intially to 1400'. I set up to track the 130QDM towards Daventry, and settled down for the flight. I had made a mental note to do as much of the radio's as I could. The theory was that I was steeling myself for the eventual day that I would be able to do this all solo. The Daventry beacon is about halfway between Covenrty and Cranfield and I passed over the top at 4000' and called to change to Cranfield. Now I was aware that Cranfield can be very busy and so I listened in for a few moments and put my most professional R/T voice on. I then called them up and promptly gave then all of the right information, but in the wrong order. Even though the instrument flying was becoming more comfortable, my big hangup was still cockpit management and it showed that my brain was still being pre-occupied with a multitude of useless thoughts. Nevertheless, they asked me to report overhead and advise them of any level changes. I tracked inbound to their VOR, but my cunning plan was only now coming to fruition. Immediately beyond their airfield is the controlled airspace for Stanstead, and it is in fairly close vicinity, so I set up Cranfield's NDB on my ADF. Their NDB is out on their main approach path and so would be out on my port side at an angle of 75 degrees to my track when I was directly overhead Cranfield. I now knew that I could prevent myself trundling off into controlled airspace quite easily.

And it worked :D :D :D

Just as the ADF needle crept round to 75 degrees off my track, the VOR gave up and showed no navigational information. I turned in utter confidence to route back to the North. I regained the Cranfield beacon on my outbound radial, and it took me off towards Sywell. Now I had been planning to track into Sywell's NDB, but now ended up with a juggling match. My aircraft only has 1xVOR, 1xADF and ILS. None of your fancy DME or twin VOR rubbish here, oh no. So to figure out my positin, I was constantly swapping between Daventry and Cranfield. According to my instructor, I just about called the overhead of Sywell and Market Harborough correctly (certainly good enough for Government work as an old instructor of mine used to say).

Leicester was a different story as I tracked the NDB in from about 8 miles, and it was far easier to call overhead when the needle went haywire. Then it was off towards the CT and Coventry for an ILS.

We descended to 3000' and self positioned by tracking in to the CT on a QDM of 230. Sure enough we got a localiser indication fairly early and so I now had something to track. The difficulty was that the wind was a South Westerly at 30 kts. This made my groundspeed only 60 kts and it meant that it was going to take forever to get home. However, this lull in the activity meant that I had the spare capacity to work out the required rate of descent for a 3 degree glideslope (usually your groundspeed multiplied by five ie. 60 kts x 5 = 300 fpm rate of descent).

Impressed with this I nearly missed the glideslope coming in. Now as I descended, we started to get lumps and bumps from the turbulence. It wa sthe worst I had found in some time and one of the lumps bounced me off the roof of the cabin. It was all I could do to keep the needles somewhere near the middle, but as we got to 500' agl, I lifted the hood and what a glorious sight. Runway 23 just off to my right with 3 reds out of 4 on the PAPI's. I then took the power off, lifted the nose to slow down, depolyed flap and even though I do say so myself made quite a nice landing.

Saturday had a sense of satisfaction, I had felt as if I had planned and flown my own route including a variety of navaids, all of my own R/T and navigational decisions and finally my own self positioned ILS. I now felt as if I could get myself from A to B safely in poor weather.

Hope you enjoyed the latest update,

Regards

Obs cop

[murphy1901]

Another fine write up Obs cop.

I sense your confidence beginning to grow and that your getting to grips with it all now! :ok:

Good luck with the exam.

[Port Strobe]

Another great write up ObsCop, very interesting read. Sounds like you're progressing nicely. I imagine life is made that much more difficult with no DME or a second VOR indicator. I can relate to the problem you have with finding spare capacity to deal with checks etc, I found it very difficult as well to begin with but its improving with practise. If you've read Trevor Thom Vol 5 you'll have no bother with the exam, I recall you making reference to it in your previous posts often enough so you should be fine. From what I can gather the question about the period of validity of the IMC rating is a dead cert to come up, I was leafing through a different book in a shop the other day & it was in every one of their sample IMC tests, probably because the CAA would like to be reassured you know how long its valid for! Keep up the good work with the flying & the diary when time allows, I find it interesting as I'm sure many others do. As of yesterday I'm no longer an IMC student :ok: Just got the CAA end of things to take care of now :{ All the best with the written test

[mazzy1026]

Fantastic Obs - keep up the good work :ok:

[Obs cop]

Thanks all,

I am becoming far more comfortable in my new windowless environment and I have to say it has made a huge difference to the accuracy of my flying. What I envisage will be hard is returning to VFR, where I think I will have to force myself to look out of the window.

We did do an interesting exercise in VFR for 2 or 3 minutes during one of the recent flights. The entire panel was covered and I was asked to fly a 360 turn using the picture. I only lost 100' but it shows that VFR or IFR fly the picture (I probably varied wildly, but just averaged the 100' loss). VFR has the outside world, IFR just has miniature versions of it that the brain needs to adapt to.

There is a hint of trepidation and a hint of excitement about using the skills I'm learning in real weather and solo.

Mazzy,

I know what you are going through, I did it for my PPL and now for my IMC rating, the reward far outweighs the pain and I reckon it can't be that far away now. Enjoy it when it happens, you only first solo once and you can't beat the elation.

Obs cop

[Obs cop]

I don't believe it, the weather's too bad now!

I was supposed to be doing lesson nine yesterday after a 2 week break (unplanned), but The TAF was giving the wind as 220, 27kts gusting 40.

Now I am a keen aviator, but that is a little much for my liking. Anyhow, I was determined to salvage something from the day and so trudged off to the field ever optimistic.

I was rewarded by the prospect of the 2 hour IMC rating exam. I have been using Trevor Thom vol. 5 for study along with an online airexam set up which cost a mere £3 to join and allows me constant use of their mock IMC exams (I believe for 1 year). Between these 2 factors, I had quite a good idea of the knowledge content and format I would face and I was pleasantly surprised by what I found.

The exam is broadly made up of 3 elements, the first being to plan an IMC Nav route accurately and answer some questions on your findings. Secondly there is a general knowledge check and finally questions to examine you ability to interpret approach plates.

I completed all of the questions bar 3 awkward ones which came into the world of best guesses.

After 48 minutes, I handed my sheets back to the examiner and went off to get a coffee to await my results which were......



















































92 percent

How happy am I? Whilst obviously it would be wrong to discuss the content, I can advise on the following. I found it was pitched at a slightly harder level than the PPL exams I sat last year and moreover, the accuracy needed in the planning phase was more demanding than I remember the Nav PPL paper to require.

An area I didn't figure for was Met and synoptic charts, and it is well worth refreshing your knowledge of this subject prior to both the IMC flying training and the exam. Lastly, I would recommend doing the exam with some airbourne training under the belt as the information is easier to understand and you can visualise what you would expect to see in the air on the dials and then transfer this to paper. Had I not gained 9 hours of instrument training, I have no doubt the exam would have been harder.

Now I can look forwards to being airbourne again. We are aiming to travel further afield so that I can remove myself from comfortable local surroundings and beacons, so hopefully we will be off to East Midlands next week to practice radar vectors to ILS approaches at an all singing all dancing international airport with all mod cons.

Reagrds

Obs cop

[ThePirateKing]

ObsCop,

I'm starting my IMC at 9am on Monday. I have to say, it's not looking good! I too took a quick peek at an AirQuiz IMC exam and was pleasantly surprised at how well I did (and slightly confused about the number of questions which didn't seem to have any bearing on the IMC rating!)

Have you guys seen this: http://www.visi.com/~mim/nav/ I thought it was very good!

Rgds,

TPK:ok:

[Obs cop]

TPK,

The Airquiz IMC tests are quite good at replicating the IMC exam in both format and content. Likewise I was surprised by the content of their tests, but I did hear that these exams are not alone in their oddities.

Apparently one of the recent CPL airlaw exams had a question on how long the head of the International Civil Aviation Organisation could stay in post. Quite how that helps one fly, navigate and communicate safely I don't know but hey I only apply common sense.

In any case just out of interest, I note from your profile you have had experience of complex types. Are you going to be doing the course in a complex type? If so please feel free to add to this thread for those who plan to do likewise. It would add a new and interesting slant, and one which I would be interested in as eventually I plan on upgarding to a complex type and taking my IMC rating cautiously with me.

Moreover, I also wouldn't feel quite so alone with my diary updates:ugh:

As you will have no doubt noticed, I found the first few hours quite intense, even though I was quite current. Let me know how you get on.

Cheers

Obs cop

[ThePirateKing]

Hi,

I'll be training in an Archer which is fairly well equiped as these things go: slaved compass, HSI, and RMI, KNS80 VOR/ILS/GS/DME (with RNAV, yay!), second VOR, etc. Shame about the muppet at the controls!

The fit should make it slightly easier than you described, plus you've mentioned the PA28 being a stable platform which will help. However, I can get lost at 120tks :cool:

Generally, would people value an additional IMC diary? Should it mixed in with this thread or in its own thread?

Rgds,

TPK:ok:

[Obs cop]

TPK,

The equipment on the aircraft you are planning to do your IMC on will make some of the navigation elements far more straightforward in the long run, although there will be more instruments to integrate into your scan in the short term.

The slaved compass and HSI will be a huge bonus, and one I fear you will not appreciate until you try IMC in a more basic aircraft. Maybe we should do a swap once through the skills test. :D

I think these variations alone would make it more sensible to add to this thread rather than have a parallel. In practice, many of the situations/ problems I have already described will be common to both of us, but the differences will make fascinating reading. I for one would like to know how you get on and I am sure I am not alone, but it might be rather awkward for a prospective IMC rating pilot to have to plough through 2 seperate threads.

Any how thats my very humble opinion.

What do you think guys, the more the merrier on this thread?

Cheers

Obs cop

[murphy1901]

As an avid reader of this thread as I build up some PA28 Archer experience prior to starting my IMC in the not too distant future, I agree with Obs cop that it would be great to have a single thread as a point of reference.

I realise that there may well be someoverlap in your training but I'm sure the experiences you both have to relate will be as unique as they are beneficial to those of us who will follow! :ok:

And Congrats on the exam pass Obs cop - 92% - not too shabby! :cool:

[Obs cop]

Thanks a lot Murphy.

The pass mark was 72% so some would say 92% was actually 20% of wasted effort, but hey all I care about is that another hurdle is passed and behind me now.

I'm also dead chuffed that the rating for this thread has nudged itself up from an average 3 to an above average 4. Little things like that make the endless hours typing seem worthwhile and I nearly feel appreciated.... sniff sniff:{ :{ :{ Thanks guys, the cheque is in the post. :ok:

I must kick this self pity into touch one day but hey, lesson nine is re-booked for Thursday afternoon. Can't wait.

Obs cop

[RodgerF]

Quote:

An area I didn't figure for was Met and synoptic charts, and it is well worth refreshing your knowledge of this subject prior to both the IMC flying training and the exam.

If you want to fly IFR you cannot know enough about Met, chart interpretation, trends etc.

[Obs cop]

Apologies all, I have been away from my computer since the last lesson, but the update is nigh...ah and here it is now.

Lesson Nine

The objective now that I can get up, figure out where I am and know how to pass a written exam, is to iron out how to get down. So much so that we thought we would zip off to East Midlands to practice a couple of ILS' after some radar vectors. A quick phone call and they agreed to aid us in our mission to get me IMC rated..... bless 'em.

We took off and departed from downwind and what a wind it was too. 25 kts right up the chuff giving us a groundspeed of a stunning 115 kts. At this rate we would be there before I got rid of a small bout of the leans. Not one to panic, I steered us towards Bitterswell an old disused airfield and we called up East Mids. Trundling along at 3000', they were terribly helpful, but I suspect that calling up in a professional manner with a callsign may have helped our case. Never the less they gave us a squawk and shortly after that granted us permission to enter their airspace. We were given radar control and turned towards the approach from the south. Then I heard a noise like Darth Vader after a good jog. It was "Typhoon One", a fast jet with a giveaway callsign. Every now and again, I marvel at the simplicity of the cessna 152, and the fact that the design does exactly what I need of it. However, there was a huge gulf between the performances of our dissimilar types and we were clearly so much better at - SLOW FLIGHT. With this significant edge we could turn tighter if not harder or faster and following the heading changes from ATC meant this was one bandit that was going to get away. Unable to stay with us in our 90 kt world the Typhoon merely passed overhead and became number two in the approach set up relegating us to number three.

Shortly after this ATC positioned us for our first approach and we neatly intercepted the localiser. I then neatly flew right through it and spent most of the time trying to get a stubborn needle to move from indicating that I was 1 degree off the perfect approach. The wind was 25 kts from the south giving a full 25 kt crosswind and yes you've guessed, I was North of my prefered track. Deftly yo-yoing either side of the glideslope added to my consternation and cursing the hills to the South of the airfield and their turbulence, I dragged the aircraft kicking and screaming back onto some semblance of a stable approach. At 800' altitude I looked up and there was a perfectly landable runway.

We started our missed approach and climbed away at 500 fpm. Two minutes later and with a hint of "why haven't they called level yet?" we were asked for our altitude by ATC. My reply of 2700 feet, combined with our long (in terms of time) ILS told them everything they needed to know about our performance (or lack of it). Once level at 3000', we tracked back and were vectored in for another ILS, but this time joining the localiser at 5 miles rather than 10. The ILS is twice as sensitive at this range than at 10 miles, and the difference got me working quite hard to capture the localiser. Again we bounced our way down the ILS, fighting the wind and turbulence, and somehow I got a reasonable approach out of it.

I was never really sure at the start if 15 hours was enough for an IMC, and my initial experiences supported this concern, but I now find flying IMC almost as routine as flying VFR. Over the coming weeks, I'm expecting the biggest difference will be to my operational capacity in the aircraft as there is definately room for improvement.

RogerF

If you want to fly IFR you cannot know enough about Met, chart interpretation, trends etc.

I quite agree, but I hadn't figured that the exam would contain stuff not to be found in Trevor Thom vol. 5. Naive perhaps, but all it meant was that I reverted to my existing knowledge. My point was simply that I hadn't prepared for it and it took me somewhat by surprise.

TPK,

How did the first lesson go?

Regards

Obs cop

[ThePirateKing]

Obs Cop,

Good write up!

My first lesson was over a week ago and I'm still lying in a darkened room with a cold cloth on my head! :\

Not a great deal to report. The Archer has screens which I guess is better than foggles or a hood. I was also flying with a 40kt wind which meant tracking away from the airfield at 70-80kts and tracking back to it at 150-160kts! :uhoh:

We basically tracked back and forth to and from the airfield at various heights which allowed me to practice turns, climbs and descents. All in all, not too shabby - just hard work!

I was also treated to being flown around for 2 minutes with my eyes shut and then told to keep my eyes shut as I was given the plane back. I actually avoided a spiral dive, but only just! :ugh:

So, all in all a valuable lesson about flying the attitude and starting to think about my scan. More to follow time/money/leave permitting.

Rgds,

TPK:ok:

[Obs cop]

160 kts,

surely the human body cannot withstand such terrifying forces......

Glad to hear it went well, if a little sweaty!

Obs cop

[mazzy1026]

and my initial experiences supported this concern, but I now find flying IMC almost as routine as flying VFR

That is a fantastic thing to hear you say Obs, as I recall your concerns at the start - I am miles behind you but it is good when it all starts to 'come together'. I was always asking myself "How can I ever learn that - or how would I ever fly that aircraft by myself"?.....and I just have!

Keep up the flying honours!

Lee :ok: :ok: :ok:

[Obs cop]

My apologies all for the lack of updates, but life has caught up with me a little.

In any case, I'm being really nice to you and I'm giving 2 updates in one....HuRRAHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHH. Tea, stickies and medals all round.

LESSON TEN

It was always going to happen and this was the day. IMC flying is one thing, but doing it after a short interuipted nights sleep is quite another. The plan was to do some NDB holds and approaches using Leicester's NDB.

Lulled into a false sense of security, we gently scooted away from Coventry over to Leics without as much as a hiccup. I then went into the hold, but I have to say it was now clear to me that everything was harder than normal, and I was feeling rough. (Before anyone starts hypothesising, I have previously suffered with airsickness and the effects become dramatically increased with both alcohol in the previous 24 hours and being tired. Now I had been stone cold sober for days, but I was very very tired). My brain seemed to be well behind the aircraft and it was very evident when I commenced a descent from 2000' to 1500' on the timed outbound leg. I concentrated on my height and missed my time/turn and then on realising that bonged my height. Mega p1ssed off, I flew a poor rate 1 turn and rolled out too late. The ADF needle looked odd until I realised how off heading I was. I missed the start of the descent and roared down to my MDH of 600'. Looking out, the field was there and I could have circled to land by by my standards it was poor. It appeared that everything I did was 5 seconds or so after I should have been doing it. We climbed out for attempt 2.

Sweat poured off as I turbo charged my brain and struggled to get back with it and the second attempt was barely passable. Following this 20 minutes of hell, I was cursing myself, pointing out how stupid I was and verbally beating myself up. As far as the hours so far have been, this was the low point. Poor altimetry kills, and mine had been verging on the shoddy. I could hardly believe how much diference there is between being well rested and sh@gged, and I was feeling every bit the fool. We did a touch and go on this second approach, and the student pilot waiting to line up was probably very amused at the worst landing I have ever made.

We trundled back to Coventry where I then did one final approach using their NDB on the localiser. I had now restored my efforts and made a decent approach with a twist. The mental picture is horrible because you track into the NDB, but are still some 3 miles or so from touchdown, so you have to track a specific radial away from the beacon. At such a crucial time in the flight it is quite demanding, I can tell you. Anyways, a reasonable approach came out of it and I retired feeling jaded from airsickness and downbeat from my display of flying skills.

LESSON ELEVEN

If you fall of the horse then you should........... take up flying. And so the following day, I took my battered ego back to Coventry. We had an hour or so now to look at what could be considered the general handling of IF.

As soon as I left the ground, I felt better. My accuracy had come back, and the plane was mine again. We roared up to 4000' where I then did some unusual attitude recoveries and some steep level turns on full panel. A bit of tracking into Daventry and I called ontop the beacon, to which my instructor looked to his right and went "yep". Our mount was a new (ie. different to our usual) 152 and this one has DME. Coooooooool.

The toys were no use however as I went onto partial panel. I flew around for about 5 minutes to get into the swing of it and then we did some more unusual attitudes, all with no drama. I was then directed off into the distance using timed turns, and my new £1 stopwatch worked admirably. Finally I was asked where we were, and I figured out we were virtually over Draycott Water. Perfect for a rejoin, but today it would have to be to the visual circuit. Overall, it was much better than the previous day and my confidence is back with me. Maybe the hiccup prevented over-confidence, maybe it was because of over-confidence, I may never know. What I do know is if you don't feel that you can keep up with or get ahead of the aircraft, you shouldn't really be blundering around in cloud. Single pilot IMC is very hard work during approaches and the like and a clear head is your best friend.

I now only have 2 3/4 hours before test and my instructor feels I am ready.

Come on!!!!!!!!!:ugh: :ugh: :yuk: :}

Obs cop

[Obs cop]

Apologies for all (the few?:ugh: ) who are following my intrepid progress, but work and home have meant that I haven't been able to make any progress over the last week or so, but I can assure you it will all be over soon.

Regards

Obs cop

[jezbowman]

Hi Obs,

I've been following this thread from the beginning and have enjoyed your detailed lesson write-ups. Well done!

I am doing my IMC rating at the moment just up the road at East Midlands airport. And I too am in the situation where I have 2.5hrs to go (only 15mins instrument time to go) to meet the minimums for a valid flight test and application. I've also been told I'm test ready.

A lot of what we have done has been similar (as you would hope / expect), but it has been interesting to hear the differencies between doing an IMC rating at an aerodrome with Class D and one without.

I know a few people early on knocked those instructors who did a bit too much 'holding'. My instuctor had not touched the subject at all, and when I asked he simply said "they're not in the test". Anyhow, I asked if we could (since we were ahead of schedule) and the resulting lesson was quite fantatstic. After a phone call to ATC to approve it we spend 1.5 hours in real IMC in the EMA zone doing holds on the EME and 'alternate procedure' ILS approaches. The cloud base was around 2000 and we we're holding at about 3000. At one point we were asked to climb to 4000 and that brought us out into the fresh blue winter sky - fantastic! It was quite a priviledge to be able to do that under a radar control service from EMA approach, not so easy if you were at Coventry doing them over the CT, or are Cov Approach accomodating to that sort of thing?

When you make approaches into COV did you have to pay for any of the sevices, like if you did an SRA or ILS approach? Or do you only pay if you make a go-around from the approach? I think we're quite lucky at EMA in that, being a based aircraft, the flying school doesn't get charged for practise approaches. Hence no knock on price to me, just the standard training rate in the 172 with an instructor. Is that how it worked for you also at COV?

I ganied a lot from that lesson. Firstly from flying true IMC without the hood (for a long time), secondly it was a great excercise in NDB tracking as the winds aloft were crosswind to the ob / ib legs of the hold.

Good luck obs and all the rest of you working towards the IMC rating! Hopefully see you 'on-top' some day soon!

[murphy1901]

Apologies for all (the few? ) who are following my intrepid progress

More than a few following your progress Obs... the thread has over 4,500 views!

No excuses! Keep the write-ups coming :p

[drauk]

when I asked he simply said "they're not in the test"

"JezBowman, good afternoon, 'cloudy approach', take up the hold, traffic is beacon outbound"

What happens next?

[jezbowman]

Indeed. That's kind of how the conversation went between my instructor, myself and the school owner. That's when we decided to spend the next lesson doing holding - like I said, I'm glad I did as it was the best IMC lessons I've ever had.

I guess there are two ways of looking at it - I should already know how to do a hold since it is part of the theory. When it actually came to doing the hold in real life, it was no problem. The level of instruction I had recieved from my instructor is fantastic and without his help on the first attempt I succesfully joined the hold and also got the RT right first time.

On the otherhand, I'm very glad I did it with him besides me. If I do come in one day in the future to be told 'take up the XYZ hold at 3000' then I'll be happy that I have done it before and know what I'm doing (well at least have a good idea!).

On the subject of approaches:

ILS/DME, NDB/DME, LLZ/DME I've done lots.
SRA and (an unpublished) VOR I've done once only.
NDB, VDF and PAR - never attempted.

I've never 'circled to land'.

Comments? / What did everyone else do?

[Obs cop]

Jezbowman,

Thanks for the input, It's great to hear that others are ploughing through the same training. It's even more interesting that you are training out of a class D CTR.

What differences have you found?

Coventry has considerable controlled airspace overhead but I feel it has distinct similarities to East Mids. Whilst both now have heavy jet traffic, invariably they prefer less expensive approaches than holding so the slower PPL/training aircraft will often be those who benefit from this practice.

The training schools at Cov do use the CT for practising holds and then the various approach procedures, so during the week it can be quite busy as it also gets visits from other Instrument Training flights. Coventry does not charge extra for instrument services if you are landing from the approach, but will charge if you go around from the approach.

My understanding was that whilst holds were not required as part of the test, there was a requirement that they had been taught during the 15 hours training. Either way, I don't see how you could consider yourself a competant instrument pilot without being able to fly them. After all it is the most basic form of aircraft separation in the terminal area.

APPROACHES:

Plenty of:

ILS, NDB, SRA, ILS/DME, NDB/DME and LLZ/DME (due to new mount having DME!)

Some:

NDB to circle to land, PAR(But years ago when in military)

Never tried:

VDF, VOR

Many thanks all
Obs cop

[benhurr]

What happens next?

"Erm Tower, G-SM seems to have an ADF which has gone tech. Request vectors for the hold.";)

[Obs cop]

Is it me or are holds considerably loss demanding than an adf approach using a localiser beacon?

Just a rambling thought of someone who is itching to finish the IMCR

Obs cop

[Yorks.ppl]

Obs cop, Firstly I am new to pprune so forgive me if I make any daft mistakes with using the site!

I have just read your diary and wanted to say thanks for taking the trouble to write it, It has made fascinating reading.

I have a mere 105 hours under my belt and was wondering about taking the next step and going for the IMC. Reading your diary has certainly given an insight into whats involved.

In a couple of your reports I picked up that you have had some problems with motion sickness and I wondered how much of a hinderance this had been to you. I have occasionally suffered from a degree of motion sickness, more so when I first started flying than recently and never beyond feeling queesy but I had wondered how it would feel to fly without external visual reference in bumpy conditions.

Any comments on this would be much appreciated.

Also I wonder if anybody has any thoughts as to where is better to carry out IMC training. I did my PPL at leeds bradford on the basis that flying in controlled airspace from day 1 would give me the confidance to fly into any aerodrome. The theory being that flying in controlled airspace with proffesional ATC and other comercial trafic would be the most demanding enviroment I would be likely to encounter. In reality I have since flown from a couple of more normal aerodromes (sherburn for instance) and have found the lack of ATC quite daunting at first.

Does anybody have any views either way, learning at a class D airport versus somewhere without class D

finally, thanks again Obs cop, your efforts are definately appreciated.

[tmmorris]

Nothing difficult about holds; it's hold entry that flummoxes me.

My instructor taught me a trick using the DI and 'sectors' drawn (mentally) on it, but I can't remember it and he's moved to a better job now...

Anyone know the one? Something to do with drawing a line diagonally across the DI and working out which sector the inbound heading is in.

Tim

[jezbowman]

I don't want anyone to think I'm hijacking the thread, but wanted to share yesterdays flight with you all...

I think I had the most challenging IMCR lesson I have ever had! Clouds at 2000' upwards. Route - East Mids, IFR Departure DCT GAM12d @ 3000 ' then upto 4000' DCT TNT DCT LIC DCT LE then radar vectors for the ILS27 for a LA and GA for another ILS27 to land. 1:45 of which 1:30 was instrument time - continually. All the route tracking was easy enough and we had a RIS from East Mids Appr, which is good since we were in IMC most of the time. The enroute stuff was fun, and interesting. It suprised me at one point that I was happily chatting away with my instructor about Mode S transponders / Gliding / Engine Failures / etc and we were in 100% best british clag. Flying in IMC has become as easy as VFR flying! I NEVER thought that would happen!

We picked up actual ice as the freezing layer was around 4000'. Only a real small amount, but enough to see the effects. In fact, spotting the ice was a lesson on its own, since it just looks like water. The clue is that it isn't moving across the surface, which although obvious, on a quick glace at the strut it may not register.

The tough bits were the ILS approaches. With the wind at 360@35kts and me on RWY27, the drift angle was 25-30degrees. VFR that would be fine, but the turbulence below 2000' and the stupid x-wind made for two of the worse ILS approaches ever. The first one (the go around) my instrutor had me fly down to IR minima, which I just managed okay. But the second approach, after 1hr 25m of solid IMC (for me) was a complete balls up. Having said that, I looked up at IMCR minima and we landed from it, so probably not so bad, but bad for my personal standards. I never want to fly an ILS with a 35kt x-wind ever again. Oh, and I didn't mention it was dark did I? IMC+NIGHT+TURBULENCE+X-WIND = CHALLENGING (but very rewarding all the same!!!).

Since I'm not night rated, my instructor handled the landing. With a 27kt crosswind it was quite an event in its own right!

Excellent fun!

[Obs cop]

Top post Jezbowman,

Don't worry about hijacking the thread as my hope is that it will become a useful resource for those considering or undertaking the iMCR. Hence any post that relates to the IMCR, instrument flying in general or which can benefit the thread is most welcome. Being just such a post, thanks for the input. Sounds like quite a challenging lesson you had there,

How far through the training are you? From what you describe you must have most ticks in most boxes. You are at the same stage as I am in that IFR flying is as comfrotable as VFR and don't it feel nice.

Tmmorris you have brough up an excellent point, my hold entries are none too simple and usually end up with me getting it wrong. Does anyone have any tips on how to make this easier?

Lastly,

Yorks.ppl your useage of PPRUNE seems much akin to mine ie. fine.

Don't worry about motion sickness if it does not affect you in your normal flying, the chances are it won't affect your instrument flying. The AI combined with the concentration level required means that most of the time you will find it just like having your full horizon. I am at the "less tolerant to motion" end of the sickness scale and found that it doesn't really cause to many problems. After all, how often are you deliberately going to do unusual attitudes for an hour on limited panel while flying single pilot IMC? Most of the training revolves around being smooth, deliberate, controlled and avoiding harsh excessive movement. The best way of tracking beacons and completeing approaches is to use small changes to heading and attitude early, some of which would be barely noticeable to the untrained eye.

The hours when you start are not the issue (I had 75 when I started), what you do need is currency, the right attitudeand your learning brain plugged in. It helps to have a good basis of experience, but that does not necessarily mean you would make better progress or be better equiped for the course. The issue is that the experience is not always relevant and following the issue of a licence people tend to go off and learn bad habits doing their own thing some of which may need to be unlearnt.

Likewise,
Having trained at Plymouth and Coventry, both having full ATC I would agree that the first few visits to an uncontrolled airfield can be daunting.:oh:

Work commitments have stalled the IMCR temporarily, but I expect to be back on track soon.

Regards

Obs cop

[jezbowman]

Thanks Obs! I'm currently at 14:20 total and 11:15 instrument. I've got one more flight with my instructor tomorrow to log 40mins then my flight test is booked for midday on Tuesday!

Then the CAA get to fleece me for £70 :ouch:

[Aussie Andy]

Hi guys,

I have been mostly lurking on this thread for a while - following everyone's progress. I am doing the IMC with the well known John Harthill at BAFC, Wycombe. He's a tough task-master - but very good at his job! I feel I am starting to make some headway myself now, having done 11:30hrs of IMC training (7:30 of instrument time from these lessons). Today was an excellent day - I managed to get in 5 approaches altogether - 2 SRAs, one radar vectored ILS and two procedural, so I thought it was about time I shared my experiences with the rest of you:

The first sortie around noon was to head over to Southend for a couple of SRA's (we have to go that far to get an SRA on the weekend as I can't fly during the week when airfields offering SRA or PAR are available nearby). But it was good fun and good practice just getting there anyway, so I really don't mind. Getting there took about 35 minutes, tracking via CHT and LAM, with an RIS service from Northolt on the way. After LAM, I called Southend APP for SRA. They apparently don't have SSR and got me to turn left 45 degrees for identification, then it was so easy just flying whatever heading I was told to be positioned downwind, descended, then vectored around onto final approach track and told when I could start my descent. The rest was easy.

After the missed approach, went around for another SRA and then after that got vectors for my first ILS approach... I was surprised that it seemed easier than I had been expecting - the needles were not as overly-sensitive as I had feared they would be. After this missed approach, we tracked back to Wycombe via LAM and CHT and joined straight in. I then had half an hour off for a coffee and bag of crisps before briefing for the Cranfield trip...

The visibility was starting to deteriorate and it was already starting to get a bit dark as we left on the second flight, this time to Cranfield which is much closer to Wycombe. Flew the bosses' pseudo-SID to WCO, and then tracked from there direct to CIT to start the procedure (http://www.ais.org.uk/aes/pubs/aip/pdf/aerodromes/32TC0801.PDF). Cranfield approach instructed me to climb to 3500' to join the the hold, and this took me into cloud - "this is for real" I thought! I'll admit that I felt momentarily anxious when I first realised I had been climbed into actual IMC... no radar coverage at Cranfield, so it is all procedural, and I was aware of traffic above us in the hold and below us in the procedure. But I realised that the aeroplane flies just the same in cloud as otherwise, and I soon settled down :-) I called beacon outbound and then followed the procedure as described on the plate, interecepted the ILS and all seemed to be going well. Wind seemed to vary as I descended (as expected), and then wasn't it lovely to see the beautiful lit runway ahead at my DA 860' (500' agl) first time! Then around again and next time took it down to 300' and again saw the runway dead ahead (just about anyway - certainly landable)... Fabulous!

Then we headed back to Wycombe @ 2000' VFR. The boss (John H) pulled the screens down to reveal that not only was it now quite dark outside, but we could not see the ground at all (just an orange glow as towns like Aylesbury slipped by) because what had earlier been low hazy mist had congealed into a solid layer of low cloud below us as the temperature dropped. We were sandwiched between the lower layer, with tops around 1500~2000', and the layer above us with ~3000' base... it made for an eerie, but lovely sight!

There are no instrument procedures at Wycombe, so I was thinking we'd have to divert back to Cranfield and get a taxi back: but Wycombe reported that the vis and cloud base were still OK there so although it was hard to believe this from where we were sitting, we pressed on and eventually found that there was a hole in the lower layer of gloom just before the town and we were able to find the field from there, and so I made my first official night landing too :-)

We had a passenger for the Cranfield trip: Sam is the son of friends of ours - he is nearly 15 but since 13 he has been flying around with me and gliding, and has now started PPL (aims to go solo on 16th birthday) and he enjoys coming along on my IMC lessons occasionally. Anyway, he thought it was awesome too!

I have to say at this stage I am very much enjoying the IMC training and would strongly recommend it to anyone considering it!

Best to all,


Andy :cool:

[Yorks.ppl]

Thanks for the reply Obs cop.

Did you do a night rating first?

[Aussie Andy]

Curious if any regular IMC rated pilots care to comment on their preference: my understanding is that its best to stick to QNH all the way so it's not necessary to fiddle with the altimiter pressure setting during the go around on missed approach.... but reading Trevor Thom Vol 5 on the train to work this morning (as you do!) I notice he says to set QFE.

What do most people do in practice?

Andy

[jezbowman]

Hi Andy,

Excellent write up the other day - I enjoyed the read. With regards QFE/QNH, my instructor showed a preference towards me using QFE since it's easier to have an awareness of your height above the aerodrome. This is beneficial if you're flying an DME/NDB approach where you're making your own step-down glidepath based on the DME and published heights. The heights will be the same everywhere (for a 3deg GS), the altitudes won't (obviously). Personally I don't find it hard to read the step down altisudes from the approach chart and probably wouldn't remember the exact step down heights anyway. Since I'll always have to use an approach chart for that type of approach I may as well use the bold numbers instead of the (other) ones!

Hence, after disscussion with my instructor, I decided to become a QNH man. It's one less thing to think about and if you do go-around, one less thing to forget. Makes you think though since DA is 806ft at East Mids for an IMC pilot on the ILS27. If you do an SRA they ask you if you want the altitudes or heights, so the option is always open.

Anyway - 1hr to my IMC skills test and I'm bricking it...

[Aussie Andy]

Cheers Jez, that's interesting. I was also offered the choice of QNH and QFE on the SRA at Southend (must be a standard thing, porobably in CAP413 if I bothered to look!).

I had already deccided to do QNH but the boss said to take QFE, which surprised me... but when I asked him about it on the climb out from the last approach as we headed home, he said that we would usually use QNH (to make go around etc. easier) but he thought it would be good for me to see it can be done either way... hey ho!

BTW, these were the first approaches I had to pay for: was slightly surprised at the cost which at Southend is £12.50 + VAT = £14.70-ish each, so three cost me around £44. When paying over the phone by credit card, the nice young lady told me that they have a "December special" on weekdays when it would only be £6 per approach... but I can't fly mid-week (so I get my "dose" by PPruNing instead!)

I am told that the approaches at Cranfield later in the afternoon will be even more expensive - but these charges come through via the club acount, so I am not sure what to expect ..!

But I guess nobody ever said this was going to be a cheap hobby!

Andy :-)

[jezbowman]

Just took my IMC Skills Test and...
... Passed! :ok:

I was suprised how simple the flight was but it did cover all the areas in the course. The wind at 3000ft was calm, so not particularly challenging. There was a nice layer of cloud at 2000ft so it was nice to climb up above that for the test. And we actually burst a few clouds on the approach back into East Midlands!

All very non-eventful and far less stressful than the last few lessons have been! Wasn't the best approach I've ever flow, but pressure of the situation and all that. Still managed to grease it onto the runway! :E

So the £70 and logbook are in the post, along with several thousand christmas cards... :ugh:

Good luck to the rest of you coming up to the test!
Jez

[Aussie Andy]

Jez: Well done mate! Congratulations :ok:

So, now what's the plan to stay current???

My instructor is very fond of saying "unless you fly IMC about once a week you won't be current"... I'm lucky to fly VFR once every two weeks, given work and travel and family life etc!

My plan is to try and fly every couple of weeks or so with my long-time flying buddy who has an IMCR and we will don foggles and take turns as safety pilot...

Andy

[jezbowman]

Thanks Andy!

Perhaps finding a flying buddy to play safety pilot while I'm under the hood wouldn't be such a bad idea. It beats paying instructor rates anyhow!

Other than that I plan to use MS Flight Simulator to keep current. I took a big break during the training (about 5mths) where my only IMC flying was on the simulator. In the first lesson back my standard didn't seem to have dropped much at all; I was quite happy to fly the clocks and shoot an ILS to IR minima. This was much to the suprise of both myself and my instructor!

Finally, in terms of currency, I think there's a lot to gain from flying approaches in VMC. If ATC isn't too busy then an approach without the hood keeps the procedure and RT upto scratch. I might even have a jolly up to Doncaster Sheffield International while they are offering their free 'staff training' approaches in the new year.

I'm lucky to fly VFR once every two weeks, given work and travel and family life etc!
Ditto. :sad:
But it's worth waiting for.....!

[High Wing Drifter]

Andy,
Curious if any regular IMC rated pilots care to comment on their preference: my understanding is that its best to stick to QNH all the way so it's not necessary to fiddle with the altimiter pressure setting during the go around on missed approach.... but reading Trevor Thom Vol 5 on the train to work this morning (as you do!) I notice he says to set QFE.

What do most people do in practice?
Yes, I did my IMC the QNH way and would fly an approach like that...even though I havn't had the chance to do an approach yet as pure P1! It seems that some approaches are optimised for QFE and some for QNH with nice round numbers for either one or the other.


Jez,
Congratulations!

[tmmorris]

Aussie Andy: not sure where you're based but last time I went Filton did 2 x ILS for £17 or so (they only do them in 2's).

Ideal for 1 missed app & 1 low app/GA.

Tim

[Aussie Andy]

HWD: cheers, thanks - and I think I will do all QNH this weekend and probably from now on.

tmm: I am based at Wycombe.... so Filton a bit of a trek compared to Cranfield which only takes ~15min to get to. But, once I get the rating I think I will make a point of doing a couple of approaches at Filton on the way back from Land's End trip I am planning with a mate (also IMC rated so we can safety-pilot for each other) - cheers!

Andy

[RodgerF]

Quote:

It seems that some approaches are optimised for QFE and some for QNH with nice round numbers for either one or the other.

Nice idea, but not the case. The approaches are designed using a set of criteria, with input coming from the local survey of obstacles, aerodrome lighting, missed approach paths amongst other things. The minima and platform heights are derived from this information and if they happen to be round numbers then it's serendipity.

[Aussie Andy]

Tevor Thom says "see AIP ENR 1-6" for radio failure rules... but I can't see where in http://www.ais.org.uk/aes/pubs/aip/pdf/enr/2010601.PDF or the other sections of 1-6 this is? I searched using Acrobat for "failure" and although some references to it, not what I was looking for.

If anyone could steer me to this I would be grateful!

Thanks,


Andy

[High Wing Drifter]

Andy,

I think you want ENR 1.1.3 - General Flight Procedures.

[Aussie Andy]

HWD - many thanks. Its in http://www.ais.org.uk/aes/pubs/aip/pdf/enr/2010103.PDF

Andy :cool:

[Aussie Andy]

Another great day today... low vis, METAR giving 2200m, so definitely wouldn't have flown VFR... sorry to sound mean, but it felt great to hear people cancelling VFR flights at the club and knowing that we could go anyway because of the marvel that is instrument flying... does this make me a bad person!?

As we set out tracking to WCO enroute to Cranfield from Wycombe, we climbed through a layer which I think started about 2600 (I couldn't see out from behind the screens so couldn't tell you for sure!).

In the climb the boss opened the little post-box sized slot before my eyes so I could see I was in cloud - felt great. Then it slowly became brighter, and brigher, then suddenly... BLUE!. It looked wonderful - and felt very special to be in VMC on top with summery blue skies and sunlight all around, above the lovely, flat, fluffy and oh-so-white clouds!

My little letterbox slot closed again after just a few glorious moments on top, then it was back to business... track to enter the hold at Cranfield, around the hold a couple times (boss seemed disappointed because there was no wind to speak of so he thought it a bit too easy for me...) and then a couple of "alternate procedure" ILS approaches followed by a direct ILS approach, then back to Wycombe VFR (well the boss was VFR, I was behind the screens...).

On the way back we did some partial panel recovery from unusual attitudes... these frankly do me head in, so I struggled a bit with these but largely got away with it.

It was very beautiful as we approached Wycombe... those that are familiar with the area will know that there are a series of valleys running N/S as you approach the town, and these filled with mist and it looked lovely from above. I had trouble spotting the field in the haze, but the boss knew where it was anyway, and so we landed uneventfully.

A great flight - and after a pause for a sandwich in the re-furbished "clubhouse" pub on the airfield (much improved from the old "Happy Landings" which was a total dump prior to refurbishment!) I did my IMC ground exam, and passed OK (84% - two silly mistakes, and two I frankly did not know the answer to!). So, a good end to a great day... just a couple more lessons I hope (in the new year as we are going away) and then the test!!!

Andy :ok:

p.s. I found www.airquiz.com an excellent way of preparing for the exam - highly recommended!

[Aussie Andy]

Hi all, not sure where the rest of you (Jez? OBS?) have got to - are you still progressing with the IMC rating, or perhaps you have already completed it by now? Well I haven't had an IMC lesson since mid-December (about 5 weeks!) due to work commitments and wx, so I was feeling a bit anxious before today's session as currency seems to be everything in this game!

The exercise was simply Wycombe -> unofficial WCO SID -> Cranfield ILS approach x 2 and return. The departure was OK - 2000' wind about 35kts so nearly 40 degrees of drift correction applied as I tracked to Westcott (WCO) NDB. From WCO to Cranfield was uneventful, asked for and got cleared to the beacon to commence the procedure for the ILS approach. Forgot to ask for the weather, and when I did copy it I forgot to readback RWY in use and QNH. With the 35~40kt wind almost straight up my chuff as I headed "beacon outbound" I should have taken at least 30 secs off the outbound leg time, but only took off about 10 secs (d'oh!) and so after becoming established on the ILS, it was a l-o-n-g s-l-o-w haul back in to the marker. We eventually got there and the rest was uneventful down to 500' D.H. and go around back to the beacon for another turn.

This second time around, I b*ggered up the tracking outbound from the NDB, turning left when I should have turned right. Once I'd sorted this out at least I got the outbound leg timing right this time, and then turned back in to again intcept the localizer inbound. However it was then pointed out to me that I had failed to remember to do my downwind & "LID" checks whilst beacon outbound (because I was fannying about with the tracking) and so had to get these done whilst tracking in on the ILS. Of course doing so took my mind sufficiently off the job and soon I found I was nearly at half scale deflection and had to then work to get it all back under control. But all was in hand by the time we got to the marker, and things went well down to D.H. from there and we headed back Wycombe-wards VFR.

On the way back we did the usual assortment of limited and partial panel, recovery from unusual attitudes and stalls etc. When we got back to Wycombe it was dark. But at least because it was late and there was no other traffic in the ATZ - especially as there were no helicopters using the low-level circuit - I able for the first time to make a circling approach... we simualted approaching RWY 17 down to 500', then turned left to circle into position for RWY 24. This was a touch-and-go followed by a couple of bad weather low-level circuits at 500' close-in. I had forgotten what was meant by "configure the aircraft for bad weather" by which was meant two stages of flap and 2000 rpm for 75kts airspeed (PA28). I really enjoyed the low-level circuits - especially because I don't have a night-rating and this was night! Great fun.

The flight was followed by the usual de-brief in the bosses office during which he read from a long list of misdemeanors he had written down during the 1hr 50m flight. My verdict was that I will need to do some more consolidation given the long layoff I had had. So imagine my surprise when he told me "you are ready for the test"... gulp! After adding up the training hours it seems I am 40mins short of the min. dual time required, so next Sat evening we will fly 40mins dual IMC to fix this, then next Sunday - weather permitting - I will be doing the test from 14:00.

Anyone with experiences of the test to share, please do...

Wish me luck!

Andy :ok:

[Obs cop]

Aussie Andy,

Great to hear you are nearly there.

I am still chasing the goal, and in reality only have about 2 1/2 hours to do before getting there. The difficulty has been domestic arrangements with small child and family just bringing a tremendously hectic Christmas period.

I am aiming to get airbourne again later this week and all going well the re-invigorated training should see me through the test within the next few weeks.

Apologies to all for the slight delay in updates, normal service will be resumed shortly.

Obs Cop

[jezbowman]

Hi all, not sure where the rest of you (Jez? OBS?) have got to

Just took my IMC Skills Test and... passed!

:ok:

Glad to hear you are fast approaching the target of the IMC skills test. I think it'd be a little unfair of me to talk too much about what's in the skills test. But it would be fair to say that you've got little to worry about if your boss reckons your ready. One good source of what's in the test is available from the CAA website - http://www.caa.co.uk/docs/33/FORSRG1176.PDF.

Get all of those bits right and you'll be filling in this form. (http://www.caa.co.uk/docs/33/FORSRG1125.pdf)

Since getting the IMCR (it took about three weeks to be issued) I've not flown anywhere near one cloud. Coming back into EMA the other day from Cambridge I request and flew a radar vectored ILS approach for the hell of it. I was working on my theory that flying the approach in VMC without a hood has the benifit of keeping the procedure and RT current. I messed some of it up so it was a worthy excersise...

Good luck for the weekend! ;)

Jez

[Aussie Andy]

Cheers fellas!

So well done Jez - I am looking fwd to the test... and good luck with the domestic arrangements OBS.

Andy

[Aussie Andy]

Hi everybody, happy to report that I did the IMC flight test today and passed! It went pretty smoothly... only two slight probs:

The first is that I had a choice between two aircraft, one with a "slightly dodgy AI" (reported to be sticking a bit in the pitch axis), and the other with no bug on the DI. I decided that living without a bug and having to remember my last selected heading was probably the lesser of two evils, and I would just have to manage with that - so we set used G-BODR.

The second problem was going to be the wind, which was forecast as having about a 25 knot tail-wind component on the ILS heading (215), so I'd have to keep up the rate-of-descent and the final phase would happen much more quickly than usual.

The drill was that I was to plan and fly to Cranfield, as if the examiner was just a passenger. I prepared a nice flight plan and all, but he didn't ask to see it. I had already booked my NDB/ILS approach at Cranfield, timed to be on the beacon at 15:00. As it turned out we were ready to go much earlier and the nice people at Cranfield TWR were happy to accomodate my request to bring it forward to 14:30. We ended up there about 10 mins earlier, but they managed to accomodate us by getting us to descend below some other chap who was joining the hold about then (thanks guys!).

Flew the club's unofficial "Westcott SID" to depart Wycombe, tracked to WCO, then turned and tracked to the CIT at Cranfield from where the approach begins at 3,500'. Got my clearance from CFD APP, copied the weather and readback the RWY in use and QNH. Because of the headwind, it seemed to take an age to reach CIT. A few times along the way the nice lady in the TWR asked me to transmit for VDF (no Radar at Cranfield) so she could guage my position and eventually this led to me being asked to descend to 2,500' before reaching the beacon. I added 30 seconds to the outbound leg time to account for the headwind for total of 3 minutes (cat A) and 20 degrees of drift heading. To my delight, it all worked out and I didn't end up passing through the centreline when turning to become established on the LLZ. So far it had all been quite leisurely but then, as expected due to the big tail-wind, it all started going a bit more quickly than usual and I was back at the beacon in no time and with 700fpm R.o.D. (versus usual 400 fpm) was above the glide slope... so back with the power and down with the nose for ~1,000fpm until I caught up with the glideslope. At least the crosswind was steady, requiring about 15 degrees into wind all the way down, so maintaining the centreline was mercifully easy in today's conditions! At 500' D.H. the screen was drawn back to reveal the runway dead ahead - happy days!

Climbed away on the go-around, up to 4,000' whilst routing VFR back to Wycombe via WCO and on the way back had the expected position fix, timed compass turns, partial panel, unusual attitudes, etc. All went well, I am pleased to report! Then screens down and VFR return to Wycombe. Happy Days indeed :O !

So it was a pretty straightforward affair, nothing unexpected and generally easier than the lessons which had been generally taught to higher-than-test tolerances to ensure we are OK for the test.

Before I go, I must tell you about my previous lesson, which was not so straight forward and generally more dramatic... Although the test was booked, I had been told that I had to fly an additional 40 minutes prior to the test in order to have the requisite 15 instructional hrs required. I was scheduled for a 16:30 slot from Wycombe for this last training sortie, but the occlusion with the snow that headed our way from the west yesterday afternoon was also timed to be with us at about the same time, and TAF at Brize was indicating ~800' cloud base with it, so I figured the flight would not be on (no instrument approach at Wycombe). But when the boss landed back from a previous trip he said to go an get ready and wait in the a/c, which I did. We had signs of carb-ice at the hold, but cleared it all OK. I asked if I should be concerned about icing, but the boss said that "as snow is already frozen it won't stick" and it seems he knows what he is talking about (!) as we had no ice form on the wings during the flight.

We climbed out just as the snow shower arrived - no need for the panels as we were straight into the soup by ~400' and I did not see anything much again until we landed. I found I had an incredibly persuasive case of the leans - seemed to be due to the long climbing turn involved in this SID, being in real IMC, and feeling nervy due to what we could hear of other people's problems below us (more on this below). Once levelled off at 3,500', we headed out towards Westcott as planned but when we didn't pop out of the side of the shower and could not out-climb it given the airspace, the boss said we'd have to head back so we got a radar service from Farnborough and tracked towards CPT to pick up a radial that would take us back to the field.

As we were doing this, the RT back at Wycombe became very busy - and was at times frightening to listen to. Three aircraft were VFR and trying to return to the field, where by now the cloudbase in the snow shower was ~300' or worse. Two were PPL's returning from cross countries to the east, and must have thought twice about continuing to Wycombe but seemingly the snow shower and low cloud engulfed them just as they had nearly made it back... the other aircraft was an instructor and student on a training detail. One of the returning a/c and the training flight made it back by whatever means they could, both eventually seeing the field at about 1/2 mile. But the third chap, apparently returning from Cambridge, seemed to really be in dire straights... he was unable to tell TWR his position, so they got him to call D&D on 121.5 for a position fix and vectors for the approach to Wycombe RWY 06... twice he called back to Wycombe TWR but apparently either couldn't see the airfield, or saw it too late and was too high to land, and so back into the soup... in the end he had to call back to D&D on 121.5 three times and on the thrid attempt made it back into Wycombe - lucky boy...!

So, back to us in our Warrior at 3,500' heading to CPT... we turned to intercept CPT radial 070 which takes you back to Wycombe at about 17dme. By now it was pitch dark because even though it was not yet official night, the black clouds that had brought the snow showers had blocked out all of what remained of the daylight. The boss had me descend first to 2,500' then to 2,000 then to 1,500 (about 1000' aal) and then we could jst make out some lights below. For me this was a useful lesson: I found I was so badly tempted to look out the side windows to see the odd house light that I was very quickly - frighteningly so - in a descending turn towards where I was looking: even though I had only looked away from the instruments for a fraction of a second I thought. After the second time (and a growl from the boss!) I decided I'd just keep my head inside the cockpit for now..! The boss had me orbit at 1,500 while he confirmed our position as Henley (bend in the river, town) and got me to say bye to Farnborough, and call Wycombe inbound from Henley with 4 miles to run.

No way could we see Wycombe, but an orangey-glow ahead just might be the red APAPI's? We headed for this, whilst stil ltracking CPT070. I found looking ahead to keep my eye on this glow (fleetingly, then back to instruments!) was difficult because of the dazzling effect of the snow-flakes rushing towards me and illuminated by the beam of the landing light. As we got closer to the glow, I could see a couple of red lights further ahead that looked more like they might be APAPI's, and then passed overhead the glow which turned out to be a big bonfire in some back yard! Now we could see the APAPI's, but not the runway (the runway lights were on, but they are not designed for such low-vis conditions as these!)...

Eventually, at about 1 mile, and with the cloud-base by now improved to about 600' aal but still snowing, the runway heaved into view and I was able to call final. The boss said "make this a touch and go"... the man in the TWR thought we were mad, but said "if you insist" and so we did 4x "real" bad weather circuits before finally landing!

All good character building stuff, and a great experience I would not want to have missed - but I was glad the boss was along for the ride as I am only about 75% sure I would have got myself back in those conditions. In practice I would have diverted to Cranfield as the weather wouldn't have yet reached them, or if I couldn't out-run it I would have headed for Brize and asked for a vectored SRA or PAR approach I guess.

So I hope you might find this of interest - all the best to everyone and I look forward to hearing more from the rest of you, especially OBSCop when you do your test - good luck!

Andy :ok:

[Fly Stimulator]

Congratulations Andy! :ok:

[jezbowman]

Blimey Andy! What an experience!

CONGRATULATIONS on passing the IMC test!!! :ok:

[Obs cop]

I am still here

Well done Andy, that puts you in the same catagory as Jez (both g1ts for having passed, with me languishing a dismal third:) ).

Lesson, oh darn I don't know what number

Got airbourne late last week, but the winds were horrendous, full of lumps and bumps. Worst of it was that I was airsick, meaning a return to the field after only 20 minutes. Most of this is attributed to the long 8 week layoff from my last flight, with very rough air and limited visual references.

Should anyone be remptely interested in airsickness (and no, as supported by the RAF's School of Aviation Medicine desensitisation course attended by my good self, it is not all in the mind!) then I have made several posts on the medical matters forum. Suffice to say, I fly for fun and when it's no longer fun I land.

Lesson, oh darn I don't know what number + 1

Got airbourne on Friday afternoon. Eeek what a wind. We used this hour for a bit of beacon tracking, climb and descent practice and also partial panel work. The wind was Northerly between 35 and 40 kts, and we even had the joy of real cloud. The cloudbase was at about 1800 feet, so we climbed straight into the crud after a takeoff from 05. We routed initially towards Daventry VOR and climbed to 3000'. It was great to find out that despite the time away from the air I could still track a VOR. It was harder than usual as our Nav 1 VOR/ILS/DME gauge wasn't giving track information only distance and groundspeed. The Nav2 gauge only does track but is on the far right of the cockpit. This somewhat stretched my scan, but still small things are sent to try you.

Heading South East with a strong Northerly it didn't take long to get there, before I passed over the beacon and turned to intercept a 010 radial. A couple of minutes later I had crept about a mile north of the beacon into a vicious headwind. We climbed to 4000' to see if we could break the cloud tops but all I found was ice. It looks like stationary water on the wing struts, and in some ways looked quite harmless, but knowledge is power and so down we went. The warmer climes of 2500' soon cleared it as I laughed to airtraffic dealing with trying to deconflict several VFR aircraft trying to operate in the narrow band of 1200 to 1700' to remain clear of the cloud. Unhindered by such considerations we were powering North at a groundspeed of 50 kts:{

I am a strong believer in maintaining a picture of aerial activity when listening to the radio, and when a Thompsonfly 737 announced itself as inbound to Coventry on the radio, I pictured up an image of small IMC cessna in cloud, large 737 plus wake in cloud, both in uncontrolled airspace. sensing an AAIB enquiry and not knowing their whereabouts to ensure clearance I thought it prudent to update ATC with our position and altitude. By now we had crept to 8nm North of Daventry, crawling along and getting nowhere fast. Due to the wind, it was still bumpy in our little world of cloud, but I was feeling way better than last week, so much so that we even did 15 minutes of partial panel with climbs and descents included. Todays fun was some partial panel low speed flying at 50 kts in cloud. Whilst quite unnerving, the aircraft just needed some fine handling and there we were, a groundspeed of 15 kts. Some would say why bother, but just knowing the aircraft will do it gives me a boost of confidence, even though I may never do it again.

Indeed, gentle exploration of the limits of an aircraft with an experienced instructor alongside should be something that more people do when they do get a chance. Most flying training is quite prescriptive in what you need to learn/achieve, but there is so much more outside of this that really can develop and improve a pilot. Sometimes, just taking yourself out of the comfort zone is a good thing (as I say with an experienced instructor!)

Finally figuring out that we would probably never get to Leicester in our alloted time, we headed back to Coventry, but due to the traffic we just had to accept a conventional recovery.

All in all, pretty happy. No sickness, 1 hour to do and already ready for test - apparently:ugh:

Again, well done Jez and Andy. BTW have either of you used your new IMCR's yet?

Obs cop

[Aussie Andy]

G'day Obs cop! Sounds like you're back in the saddle and enjoying yourself! I am envious of your experience of a little ice: although I did get to spend some time in actual IMC, it never iced and I find myself wondering what it would look like, whether I'd notice it, how ti would affect handling, how quickly it would melt once I descended etc. as it's always better to have practical than theoretical experience... anyway, thanks for your description!

I have not used the rating in anger yet - primarily because I don't have it... I sent off the form with logbook and a cheque for £70 on Monday last week and on about Thursday received a receipt (so at least I know that they have received the application and logbook OK). I guess I'll have it in a week or so!?

Am planning to fly VFR next weekend - I almost "need the practice" at VFR now! :p Then, on Sat 12 Feb, I have planned a trip to Land's End with a mate of mine, which we'll do primarily VFR but I plan to a) climb above a thin layer if there is one; and b) do a practice approach at Exeter and/or Bourmeouth on the way back... so that will hopefully be the first use of the rating in anger.

I guess you must have the test coming up soon... good luck!

Andy :ok:

[jezbowman]

Obs is alive and well and strapped back into a C152. Hurrah! ;)

Glad to hear you're back on the case and just a short time away from your test.

In terms of using the IMCR - not really. I've now had it issued for about a month and in that time I've mostly been doing my Night Qualification. Since this requies VMC for VFR, there's been no opertunity to use it there. However, on a short jolly down to Cambridge and back I did shoot a ILS appr in VMC (without a hood) for the hell of it. It was CAVOK so not really much point in doing it. I could see the RWY 20nm away, but did one anyway "because I could".

Once I get this NQ out the way I'm going to plan a longer flight for late/mid Feb and pick somewhere that I could actually use the rating if I can.

[Obs cop]

Cheers for the support fella's.

The test is now only 1 hour away, and I'm hoping to get both done within the next fortnight (practice test and real one that is!).

I have to admit I've seen rime ice before when in the military, but this was definately clear ice. On the windscreen there was an odd mix which basically looked like a clear frost that wasn't shifting. I'm guessing that as the cockpit heat was on and we were not that far below freezing anyway, the screen would not have been that cold and this caused the slightly odd effect.

The clear ice was evident on the wing struts and looked like drips of water which had been blown back from the leading edge before freezing. With such a poor performing aircraft to begin with I would have thought the effects of the added weight and drag would soon become a problem, but we didn't hang around that long. We didn't collect enough to notice any handling or performance deficiencies and none was shed by the prop etc. to give any vibration.

Once in the warmer air it only took a couple of minutes to clear from the visible areas, but the cold metal towards the wing tips may have taken slightly longer, dunno as I copuldn't see.:uhoh:

Anyways, I am alive and well and back in the saddle, so the end is nigh for all of those out there tracking my every move (or lack of it recently)

Obs cop

[wbryce]

Very nice read this thread, thank you to the ones whos contributing there experiance.

I'm hoping to get a head start in IMC by preparing myself for the theory. I've read thoms volume 5 and enjoyed it but i doubt this book alone will get me through the theory. Just wishing to know how other IMC pilots prepared themselfs for the theory exam.

I dont have a good idea of what topics the theory is looking for as i've only been able to do 1 or 2 airquiz mock exams to get a feeling of what to expect.

[Aussie Andy]

G'day wbryce:wishing to know how other IMC pilots prepared themselfs for the theory exam Basically, I prepared by:[list=a] Reading Thom, and religiously doing the quiz at the end of each chapter (don't worry if not 100% clear at this stage, but this is the foundation work required);
Buying the IMC Confuser (http://www.flightstore.co.uk/the_imc_confuser.pilot.books/use.id.10.item_id.143/)
Using the www.airquiz.com tests
Then, when scoring consistently above 90% on Airquiz and/or Confuser, I sat the test.[/list=a]You will pass. At the end of the day, I didn't find this as hard as I remembered some of the PPL tests (like Air Law for example) and there was more than enough time to get through the paper.

On the subject of whether to do it before the flight training or during it, I would say that I found some of the stuff for the exam a bit confusing before I had done the flight training, and that a lot of things made more sense because I had the context once I was about half way through the training, which is when I sat the paper.

Hope this helps,


Andy

[Obs cop]

Wbryce,

Hi, glad you could join us. I used Trevor Thom vol. 5 and the airquiz tests. The airquiz tests relate quite closely to the real exam in terms of difficulty and makeup so they are a very good indicator.

How true it is I don't know, but an instructor recently told me that the Trevor Thom series is now the baseline that the CAA use to set the exams from.

I'm not a big fan of the confuser series of books, but then I didn't need to use them. The IMC exam is an extension of your visual nav, flight planning, airlaw and met from your existing PPL. However, the joy is that the major bulk of the content relates quite closely to what you need to be able to do.

ie. Plan a flight including logcard and fuel useage.
Awareness of the effects of met on your planned flight
How to read and get information from an approach plate
What the instrument flight rules are and application of them.

Basically if it's not in Thom vol. 5, then it was already in your previous PPL exams. Oh and a lot of the information is easier to remember when you have some training to relate it to. I read Vol. 5 before I got heaviliy into the airborne work and it could have been the history of art in the Falkland Islands I was reading about. I just couldn't remember it that easily. After a few hours in the air it fell into place more easily.

Regards
Obs cop

[IO540]

I haven't read the whole thread by a long way, so just a couple of things:

The IMC Confuser is great. Make sure you get at least 90% on it.

I don't like TT Book 5 very much. It is very confusing and (not having looked at it for a few years) I could swear there are (were) some diagrams to do with VOR/NDB tracking which were simply wrong. The book appears to be the work of several different authors. But it will do for the IMCR exam, because the CAA exams are written to fit the content and terminology of the TT books (or perhaps the other way around).

I am positively the last person to knock the IMCR (which is a super privilege to have) and will always have a go at those old farts who say it's a "get into trouble rating" etc, but -

If you are doing the IMCR to go places, rather than just a piece of paper, it helps a lot to have an instructor who actually flies for real. Otherwise, one can get an idea that instrument flight is just a load of NDB holds, more NDB holds, and perhaps an ILS at the end. The reality, even just pottering about the UK, can be substantially different. There is a lot more to know if one is going to use it for real; e.g. navigation using GPS/VOR/DME and how to get decent en-route weather data.

The above isn't a criticism of the Rating or its content; it is a criticism of the way it is generally taught. Every instrument instructor should have a current IR and should be using it, too.

[Obs cop]

IO540,

As ever some very valid points. There will always be the "old farts" who see the IMCR as a get you into trouble rating.

I can see their point. It is not an IR, never will be an IR and should never be used as an IR would be. 15 hours training is very little, but as ever currency is of more use than the impressiveness of a piece of paper.

A current IMCR holder is less of a liability than an IR holder who has not used the skills for some time.

But I started the IMCR for 2 distinct purposes:

1. The get me out of jail card for when the VFR conditions turn a bit cruddy and I really do want to be back on the ground.

2. To get VFR on top or to get somewhere in the UK.

I like flying VFR. I don't enjoy IMC as the view is pants. But as a skill to have, and use correctly it opens a lot of doors up some of which are far safer than boucing around in low level rubbish weather with rubbish visibility and low cloud base.

Obs cop

[Gertrude the Wombat]

I could see the RWY 20nm away You can see 23 at Cambridge from rather further away than that on a good day ... from FL95 or so ... but they're not impressed when you call them and say "field in sight", they just say to call again when you've got five minutes to run.

[IO540]

Obs Cop

The problem with a "get out of jail card" is that it isn't going to get used much, and when you need it you won't have the currency to be able to use it. So one needs to budget for doing more hours than a purely VFR pilot might get away with.

Few people like to fly in IMC, and they can't anyway for long if it's icing. VMC on top is the general idea.

The "15hrs min" isn't really feasible IMHO if one is to be able to use the full privileges. But then very few people do the PPL in 45 :O How many people do the JAA IR to a useful standard in 50 (or 55 for ME)? Who knows; almost none of those presently doing it end up using it at PPL level because they are working towards a P2 seat on a 737 :O

[Obs cop]

IO540,

Yep, I agree. As I have hinted earlier in the thread, my expectation is that I will be devoting quite some time to ensuring my IMC skills are maintained. If anything a couple of minor enforced absences have pointed out to me quite clearly how quickly the skills go rusty.

In reality, I feel that 12 hours to remain legal for VFR flying is far below that required to stay "current". Far more is needed to keep your VFR skills fresh, and even more is needed for an IMCR to be of actual use rather than just a nice signature on a piece of paper.

I have no intention of flying to the edge of my, or the aircraft's limits, but I do feel that well maintained, the IMCR is a useful tool and if current is a "get out of jail card". But again, it is not and never will be an IR. Likewise, the full priviledges conferred by an IMCR are really stretching it to get it into 15 hours. We have concentrated on what I intend to use my IMCR for, and so have looked at approaches to varied airfields with significant GA bases. My background includes some military aviation and many of the doctrines have stayed with me ever since. Complacency is not something I aspire to, safety is. It is in this spirit that I wish to develop my flying, and no I'm not after the RHS of a 737 :E


Regards
Obs cop

[Aussie Andy]

Received the rating in the post from the CAA today - 2 weeks almost to the day since I posted the application, £70 cheque and my logbook to them, which is pretty good service really - wouldn't complain. Thought you might like to know!

Hopefully, if the weather is not too bad, I might gingerly use it (under foggles in VMC with my mate as safety pilot) to try an instrument approach at airfields I've not approached by instruments before, Exeter and/or Plymouth, this Saturday!

Andy :ok:

[mazzy1026]

Well don Aussie - great stuff. Hope you enjoy your new rating :ok:

Now for a very stupid, newbie style question:

With your IMC rating, can you fly above the cloud, out of sight of the ground and above the wether etc? Obviously if the top of the cloud is low enough, as not to break the ceiling of the aircraft.

:hmm: :hmm: :hmm:

[Aussie Andy]

Thanks Mazzy,With your IMC rating, can you fly above the cloud, out of sight of the ground The national (UK) IMC rating: Removes ANO restriction of "never out of sight of surface"
Removes ANO restriction of "never in visibility less than 3km, but imposes "never below 1800m for take-off or landing"
Where SVFR is allowed, minimum visibility you can fly in is reduced from 10km to 3km
Allows IFR in any airspace EXCEPT CLASS A (or B for that matter)
NOT valid outside UK airspace (but "well respected" and can count towards e.g. FAA IR I am told...)
Valid for 25 months, revalidation by test
Pre-requisites are PPL, Radio License and 25hrs post-ppl flying before grant of rating (of which 10hrs must be PIC, of which 5hrs must be cross-country)
The above is courtesy of notes from Irv Lee's excellent "HigherPlane PPL Masterclass Seminar" which I would recommend to any recently qualified PPL! See http://www.higherplane.flyer.co.uk/seminars.htm

Let me know if any questions mate.


Andy :ok:

[Irv]

Allows IFR in any airspace EXCEPT CLASS A (or B for that matter)
and 'C' but u wouldnn't notice as we don't have any of that in the UK!
In fact, it's D to G to be as per ANO but I suppose that's sort of the same as not "A to C"!

[murphy1901]

Did you sit/pass your test Obs Cop or have I missed some posts? :O

[jezbowman]

I was thinking the same thing the other day, murphy! How is it going Obs? Did you finish it?

We got onto the subject of 'have you actually used it' a couple of weeks back. Well I think I've actually used mine properly now!

I actually used it on Saturday to take a quick 'local north'. Despite the CAVOK on the METAR the vis was appaling so I elected to make an IFR departure DCT GAM FL50. This, I thought, would put me 'on top' of the haze. After launching into the haze the vis appeared much worse and as I approached FL40 I was climbing through cloud. I managed to get a RIS from EMA Appr and stayed on RIS throughout due to bursting in and out of the cloud tops at FL50 all the way to GAM. At GAM I tracked to SMF then turned due south when the radar range was getting a bit too far for EMA. This final leg had mostly broken contact with the ground and in and out of the clouds. I then flew a (pretty much perfect) ILS to RWY 09 (my first IAP to this RWY) and made visual contact with the RWY at about 5nm.

All in all VERY exciting and the first proper use of my IMCR.

My girlfriend was quite scared as we went into the first few clouds as they do rush up quite rapidly at 110kts. Especially the clearly defined, big white fluffy ones. Most PAX have never been in the cockpit of an a/c when it rams into something that appears solid at over a hundred miles an hour and I can understand why she gasped as we plunged into it. Worth bearing in mind if you take PAX on an IFR flight.

Andy - have you used yours yet?

[Aussie Andy]

Andy - have you used yours yet? Kind-of, but not really: I flew briefly through a small snow-shower first time out after getting the rating, and on Sunday just gone I took off in vis that was VFR, but only just, but with much more confidence than usual! I am not frightened of doing it - just haven't had occasion to really use it in anger yet!

Andy :ok:

[Obs cop]

Murphy, Jez,

Thanks for the concern. I have just got back from preventing a small time drugs cartel in brazil from distributing ricin to the greater part of the developing world...................ahhhhhh I wish.

The reality is somewhat dull. My job decided to send me on a course and part way through my second daughter arrived into this world 4 weeks early, just the builders started work on my extension.

As a result I have been somewhat time limited.:eek: :ugh: :\ :\

The supposed last Lesson :uhoh:

After a lay off of 6 weeks, I went flying again today. Perfect weather for a refresher. After briefing and checking the aircraft, my trusty 152 climbed positively away from Coventry, retracing it's route straight towards Daventry VOR.

Todays wind was a Southwesterly which at the field was 17kts gusting 27. Ohhhhhhh, combined with the scattered cumulus, unstable airmass and rain showers this was going to be interesting. And indeed 1600lbs of Cessna is quite easy for mother nature to disturb and quite awkward to keep straight and level under the hood. But I got it together quite quickly and flew a respectable leg out to Daventry before turning North to track towards Leicester. All was going quite well I felt.

Then came the unusual attitudes,
























and they passed uneventfully. Wouldn't you know it though we then had a practice vacuum pump failure and we lost the AI and DI. And again the unseen hands of my instructor ruined the picture. But no real drama's there either. A quick route back to Draycott Water and we were foiled from looking at approaches by Thompsonfly and their inbound 737.

So I asked, what would happen if you had an engine failure and the cloud base was so low as to preclude the chance of descent in IMC to break cloud and conduct a forced landing? To which the response was throttle back to idle, two stages of flaps, trim for 60 kts and take your hands of the yoke, only steering with your feet.

Lo and behold, we descended at quite a sedate rate. Into wind our ground speed was only about 30 kts and we seesawed along nose rising and falling as the aircraft meandered either side of its trimmed speed by 7 to 8 knots. Keeping straight with the rudder and now looking out of the window the following things struck me (not litterally of course).
We were going quite slowly, in control and not doing too bad a job of being an overweight glider. We still have a lot of countryside not built on which puts the odds a little better than even of not hitting a building etc. Unless the pilot interupts it with poor flying skill this thing doesn't want to fall out of the sky and really is quite stable, it just didn't want to stall or spin in, it just sat there happily nodding and descending. Lastly, in a bad situation as portrayed, good sense and airmanship can still recover some of the odds of making it out in one piece.

In no way do I promote this as a "course of action" for dealing with such a scenario. It was more about looking deeper into the flying characteristics of the aircraft and how a skilled and knowledgable pilot might be able to use them to their advantage when all else fails.

We then made a normal uneventful recovery to Coventry for a debrief. It never ceases to amaze me how much more can be learnt, even about an aircraft we all take for granted, and each gem gets tucked away, improving my confidence in the abilities of both the aircraft and myself.

That was a little pep talk as:


MY IMCR skills test is scheduled for Tuesday 12th April!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!


Many many apologies for the poor udating, but my hands have been very full over the last couple of months and an even keel has only just been re-established. Wish me luck,

Obs cop

[Gertrude the Wombat]

and they passed uneventfully My experience of unusual attitude instruction is limited to

(1) high air speed - "aha, he's hoping to trick me into closing the throttle, so I must be pointing straight up" - sure enough, pointing straight up, airspeed decreasing rapidly, stick forwards, full throttle

(2) low air speed - "aha, he's hoping to trick me into opening the throttle, so I must be pointing straight down" - you can guess the answer

(3) er, spiral dive, bit obvious really.

What else do they do?

How do they get you out of the mindset of gaming the instructor and into the mindset you'd need to be in if you'd upset the aircraft for real, and didn't have an instructor's mind to read to work out what was going on?

[Aussie Andy]

OBS Cop, welcome back - sounds like you have your hands full! Welcome to the little one!! Good luck for Tuesday, sounds to me like you're going to kill it mate!

Gertrude (are you really a wombat?): my instructor didn't ever try to trick me as you describe - it was always kind of obvious which one was coming (i.e. a/s decreasing, nose rising, heading for the stall , and so forth). You must have just had someone who wanted a bit of entertainment as well :)

Andy :ok:

[Gertrude the Wombat]

Oh no, one of them was:

I heard no change to the engine note. I felt not change in attitude (he did it slowly).

I deduced that the only thing he could have done without giving me any cues was put us into a spiral dive, so when I opened my eyes I just looked to see in which direction we were turning and that was that.

Which was why it was an unrealistic test: in real life I wouldn't have known before I started that it was guaranteed to be a spiral dive and that all I had to do was spot the direction of turn. Comments fron instructors would be welcome at this point ...

(Re the name: I have always used my real name on internet fora, but when I joined PPRuNe absolutely nobody but nobody was using their real name and I'd have looked completely out of place. So I reckoned that if I was required to have a silly alias I'd take the trouble to make it really silly, that's all.)

[Keef]

The sadist I flew with didn't do anything. He just told me to close my eyes and fly S&L. Then, after a while, he'd say "open them and recover." That prevented any guessing about what might or might not have happened.

Means you do it properly - look at the instruments, decide the situation, and react appropriately.

[Obs cop]

AA,

Thanks for the vote of confidence.

Can anyone give me a heads up as to how their tests went or any pointers? Just trying to get the whole picture of what I can expect.

Many thanks
Obs cop

[Aussie Andy]

Mine was totally no surprises and was exactly what I was told by my instructor it would be... flew a planned route from homebase over to Cranfield where I did one approach of my choice (direct to NDB, no hold, then ILS), then direct for homebase and on the way back did partial panel, unusual attitudes, and position fix. I think that's it - if you scroll back a few pages I think I writ it up at the time.

Cheers!

Andy :ok:

Found the note I writ: http://www.pprune.org/forums/showthread.php?s=&postid=1708157&highlight=IMC+test#post1708157

[Obs cop]

Sorry Andy,

My heads a bit of a shed at the moment as you can imagine.

However, your post becomes very important to me right now as I hope to follow in your footsteps. I enjoyed reading it first time round but now I fear I shall disect it nore closely.:ok:

Obs cop

[Aussie Andy]

No worries - be confident in your own abilities, and just do what you've been trained to do. And if you make a little mistake, no drama - do it again the next week! Take the pressure off yourself (a bit... but not too much as you don't want to be complacent either!) ;)

Andy :ok:

[Obs cop]

After 7 months 15 hours airbourne and countless hours updating on Pprune,

:E I Passed

But it nearly didn't happen.

Both our 152's were in maintenance and were likely to be for some time. Typical that an ideal day 8/8ths cloud from 2000' to 4300' with 8 to 9 kt steady westerley should start with such a damnation of a hiccup.

So I took the opportunity to get a quick practice in, leapt in the idle PA28R with wobbly prop and hidy wheels and went up for 20 minutes. It was my first time in a complex single, and wow what a stable and quick beast it was. By the time I had the gear up and the engine set up for a cruise climb I had missed the crosswind turn and was at 1000' doing 90kts and still going skywards. Lesson 2 was that a Cessna can easily be flow without good trimming because brute strength fixes such a trivial problem' not so with an aircraft this weight and speed. Keeping to the plan I shot out to the Daventry Vor having climbed to VMC ontop skimming just above the clouds at 130 kts. In no time at all, turned back north and got a RIS and vectors back into the ILS for 23. Apart from the actual engine fiddling this plane is far easier to fly IMC. It is so stable that you don't have to hand fly it as much and can more easily regain spare capacity. Which really was needed for learning a bit about how to handle the engine. The radio kit and instruments are far better and the airframe carries significant momentum and inertia so that give or take a bit it stays where you put it. Even the extra 30 kts over the 152 didn't seem to cause too much drama, but then I wasn't under that much pressure as this was a little bit of a jolly rather than the tense end of a long flight. We even completed an orbit halfway down the ILS to seperate from other traffic before continuing to land. I want one.:E

Sometime later came the test.

Our 152 was primed and ready, I was primed and err... ready as I'll ever be.

Airbourne at our more pedestrian rate, the plan was to depart from the downwind via the CT NDB then routing for Leicester for their unofficial NDB approach to 28. So far so good, 1400' heading straight for the CT when due to incoming traffic ATC request we route North for a bit. Noooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooo!!!

That's not in the plan. I'm not at a beacon, rather in open airspace and you want me to fly and navigate to anther area of open space not directly to or from any beacons. Oh alright. I turned North and clear of Birmingham CTA started to climb to 3000'. The 65 kts in the climb meant we would get out of ATC's way both laterally and vertically without going miles off track. It worked because a few minutes later we were cleared to resume our course and so I flew a 090 course to intercept the 050 CT radial. Bingo, there is was coming in from the right, off to jolly Leicester we go. Getting rid of Coventry over the M1, I changed to Leicester, tuned in their NDB and plodded along at 90kts. Through the overhead and then straight into the NDB approach. Throughout, I made sure that I tried to keep the Nav boxes 1 step ahead/ Leicester is virtually under the approach for Coventry 23 so I tuned in the ILS so I could have the DME from there. With the NDB and the DME I could readily keep tabs on my whereabouts. I broke cloud at about 1700', but had been given the hood so that I flew down to minima of 600'agl. On looking up, the runway was there. I had gone for the hardest approach and nailed it, but this was too early to get excited. Into a go around, I climbed out and intercepted the 180 QDM for Daventry. Back into the gloop and no need for the hood. I got level at 3000' and immediately had a partial panel to deal with. Partial panel is tough, but tracking a VOR on partial panel always makes me sweat. We climbed to 4000' on partial panel and went for DTY. The sense of achievement in getting there is great, but unlike the PA28R every lump and bump in the cloud was conspiring to upset my attempts to keep the 152 stable. Single engine light aircraft IMC with basic radio nav equipment and no autopilot must surely be one of the more demanding disciplines in aviation. It is pure hand flying with attention to detail, and accuracy working hand in hand with navigation and airmanship. I was beginning to really enjoy this flight.

A few more bits of messing around and Coventry even then obliged with a second set of radar vectors to the ILS. Compared to the NDB this was quite simple, the result being a 152 set up nicely at 500'agl to land. So nothing out of the ordinary, it all went like clockwork.

At the start of this thread I could barely aviate on instruments and certainly couldn't navigate or communicate. Now I can do all 3 together VMC or IMC. The stamp in my logbook proves it and the bill to the CAA makes it official.

On the drive home I asked myself a few questions:

A) Did I enjoy it?
Yes.

B) Would I recommend anyone else do it as early in their flying experience as I did?
Maybe. The learning and skill is far more demanding than you can envisage from the outset. 15 hours is tight and in reality is too little for what you become qualified to do. Likewise doing it soon after a PPL reinforces and builds upon the foundations of power and attitude equals performance. Being a good VFR pilot will not necessarily make it easier because the environment is quite different, and an IMCR is not really something to embark on if you just "wanna try something else". Trust me it is a long and hard graft.

C) Was it worth it?
For me yes. But currency and professionalism will take up a major part of making the rating work for me and again this should never be underestimated.





My deepest thanks to those who have stuck with me throughout this thread. When I started out one of my objectives was that it may benefit others who consider or start down the path of an IMCR. If it does then I'm glad. Otherwise I hope it has been as enjoyable a read as it has been for me to complete:

Now where are those clouds.:ok:

Obs cop

[Confabulous]

Well done Obs Cop! Congratulations!!! :cool: :cool: :cool: :E :E

[mazzy1026]

Congratulations on your new rating Obs - fantastic! What an excellent writeup too, it was a pleasure reading your blog :ok:

Hope you enjoy it, and let us know how you get on from here!

I want one!

Lee ;) ;) ;)

[nigelisom]

Congratulations and many thanks for the thread, I have been inspired, educated and challenged.
Later this year when funds permit I too will attempt to join the happy band of pilots who can fly above the clouds as well as below.
Looking forward to the view.

[squawking 7700]

Well done.

But can you use an unofficial procedure as part of an IMC test?
I was told for my renewal test that the Examiner would
only use an official procedure.

7700

[drauk]

A bit late for Obs Cop but three comments for anyone else approaching a rating test:

1) When I did my IMC rating the examiner had me take off 'under the hood', which I'd not tried in training. He was responsible for checking that the runway was clear, as obviously I couldn't see a thing. It was fine in the end, but I wish I'd tried it before the test itself.

2) Same examiner, during the unusual attitude recovery put the plane in a steep climb with corresponding decreasing airspeed but had also trimmed it a long way back. It seems obvious now but for a split second I couldn't work out why all instruments were reading straight and level but it was a LOT of elbow power to keep it that way. Part of the problem was, I think, that I'd never flown a plane so far out of trim before - it didn't occur to me that that was what was happening.

3) During my IR the unusual attitude was a lot less unusual - quite a mild spiral dive but the difference was that it was a bit like Keef's - self-induced. However, instead of shutting my eyes he had me read detailed information off my airways chart without looking up.

[Obs cop]

Thanks all,

Squawking,
I have just checked the CAA standards document for IMCR flight test and revaildation as you got me a bit worried there.

Under Test Exercise - Instrument let down and approach it states:

1. Let down and approach to an active airfield to the declared DA/H or MDA/H using pilot interpreted aids.

So from that I would read that there is no requirement for the approach procedure to be official, but it must be to an active airfield.

Likewise I landed from an ILS which is also a pilot interpreted aid so in effect it was covered twice.

Cheers
Obs cop

[Aussie Andy]

Well done mate! I enjoyed the write-up (but not as much as you enjoyed flying it, eh!?!)

And thanks for starting this thread - one of the best threads in the last year on PPRuNe Private Flying Forum I reckon (maybe we should instigate an award!?)... seriously I think it has really helped all of us working on the IMC in the last year or so, and has clearly inspired others too!

Hope we can catch up someday (e.g. anyone on here doing Project Propeller this year?)...

Andy :ok:

[benhurr]

Guess it depends on your interpretation of "declared" DA/H MDA/H. Surely "declared" means that someone has been informed, I would think that would be a licensing authority.

I am not splitting hairs, just wondering...

[murphy1901]

Congratulations Obs Cop! :ok:

Thanks for all the write-ups - I've enjoyed following your progress.

As I perhaps mentioned way back at the start of this thread, it was my intention to start my IMC and I'm glad to say I now have. Only 2 hours so far but now I understand what you mean about hard work! :hmm:

Congratulations again and all the best!

[jezbowman]

Well done Obs and welcome to the IMCR club!

I fully agree with the comments above that this thread has been of great benefit to all of us going through the IMCR at this time. I think we've all shared similar feelings with regards to expecting more from the test, then it being no big deal on the day. That pays testament to the level of instruction and the level of pilot ability the rating brings. And all in 15 hours!

Flying in IMC on a light SE a/c and single crew is a real demanding challenge - probably some of the hardest civil flying you can do. Furthermore, the complications of flying off airways in class G make for very mentally demanding flying, RT and situational awareness. I really believe having an IR just makes it too easy!

Well done again to all who have passed, good luck (not that you'll need it) to all who are trying and 'get signed up' to all who are thinking about it (but only if you're up for the challenge!).

Jez

[Aussie Andy]

the complications of flying off airways in class G make for very mentally demanding flying, RT and situational awareness I agree... and having just read the great tales of what can be done with an FAA IR in an N-Reg aircraft here: http://www.polestaraviation.com I say "ROLL ON PRIVATE IR FOR EUROPE"... (pigs might fly, and hell may freeze-over first...!)

Andy :ok:

[Keef]

A great achievement! Don't let the moaning minnies tell you it's only a get out of trouble rating. Enjoy it, and keep it current (that's the hard bit).

I hope to meet you at a suitably murky airfield some time.

[tmmorris]

Well done!

At least you didn't squawk 7700 by mistake like I did on my IMC renewal recently. Though I passed, amazingly. Fortunately the controller who'd just said 'squawk 7000, good day' had realised what I'd done and telephoned the tower at my landing airfield so they could tell me...

Note to self: Remember... 0 is THREE clicks right from 5, not two...

Tim

[Obs cop]

Thanks again to all who have followed thid diary and who are passing on congratulations.

£70 and my log book are now en-route to Gatwick, and I await my shiny new IMCR with baited breath.:E

Something I hadn't really thought of is whether the same set up as the PPL applies. With the PPL you can fly solo once the skills test is complete but you can't carry passengers until you have the licence in your sticky mit.

My assumption is that I can't exercise my new found privileges until I have the paperwork in my hand. Am I correct in this assumption?

Obs cop

[tmmorris]

I assumed so when I got mine, yes. It didn't take as long to arrive as a PPL, though.

Tim Morris

[Aussie Andy]

I really used the rating today - on purpose!!

My mate Adrian and I were very dissapointed today as our long-planned trip to Cherbourg / Alderney / Guernsey was weathered off due to fog/vis etc in the Channel. But after lunch today it cleared up quite a bit local to us at Benson, cloud base almost 2,000', so we decided rather than totally waste the afternoon, we'd head up to Cranfield and back.

I flew the return leg and decided that if I could get a radar service from Brize I would climb through the layer to FL040. As I climbed towards the base of the layer I felt the fear well up inside me... told myself it is irrational (after all, I have done it alright with the instructor beside me!) and so kept climbing.

The cloud layer was just starting to break up: the base was still around 2,000' or so, but there were some gaps starting to open up, and it was just gorgeous climbing up through the fluffy white towers that were now all around me. Finally, just reaching ~3,000', there was a big fluffy blob ahead of me that I was going to have to enter and continue the climb through. So, I just did what I knew I could do(!), kept going, and shortly after burst through the top and leveled just above the fluffy white peaks at FL040 - what a lovely site to behold! Blue skies, brilliant sunshine, and I had gotten there "all by myself" (well, with some help from Mr. Piper, Mr Lycoming, and the nice man on Brize Radar)!

Once on top, I tracked to WCO - by now feeling cool, calm and a every inch a total Sky God :O. After turning for home at WCO, ~20 miles to run, the layer started to break up a little more. Now there were sizeable holes all around, and if I had to I could have got back down maintaining VMC by picking a path through the holes. But by now I was hooked! Still with the radar service, I started my descent in a stubborn straight line towards my goal, worried lest this time there was no cloud in my path! As luck had it though, I was back in cloud in a nice steady descent for a good few minutes as I tracked back to Benson. Brize called "traffic, 2 miles, height unknown" during the descent - but I had to say I was still in IMC an unable to look for the traffic. He replied that the traffic had turned away and not to worry. Soon I was below the layer and had Benson in my sights a few miles ahead - home safe!

I am really chuffed with myself - other than this I have only entered little bits of scud for a few minutes a time since getting the IMC rating; but today I feel I did something useful and practical and safe - well within my bounds - which I hope will help to keep me current for when I really need it.

Hoping for a better day tomorrow; heading to the BBQ at Bembridge at noon if the wx is good enough in the morning, then either strike for a lightning fast visit to Alderney after lunch, or back around the coast to Manston, Southend and back to Benson. However it turns out, I am hoping to practice again with another climb through a layer tomorrow if the skies oblige!

Regards to all,


Andy :ok:

[Obs cop]

Nice post Andy.

Bet that brought it all back to you.:E

I'm not sure if fear is the right word, but I'm damn sure I'll be really apprehensive the first time I solo in cloud.

Thanks again for the update.

Obs cop

[Aussie Andy]

not sure if fear is the right word Well, at least it was high anxiety!!!

Cheers :O

Andy :ok: