Extra radio calls in CTAF for safety

[Elvis the Spot King]

I fly at an airport with a busy extended CTAF. The local aeroclub has a policy of minimal radio calls. They fly very wide ccts in predominantly C150s. I prefer to fly closer ccts within gliding distance of the field due to scrub and trees around the field (one forced landing offield at 1500' is enough), which I do when I cannot see or hear traffic in the cct. otherwise I fly the normal wide cct. The problem occurs when I call inbound at 3,500' scan the cct area, join crosswind at 1000' fly the pattern and then spot a C150 1.2nm abeam the field on downwind or worse still, crossing my path flying base. A Chieftan driver had the same problem: called inbound, no reply and then was stunned to see C152s in the cct, and a little p!ssed off too. See and avoid is fine, but as a back-up a bit of good airmanship in contacting aircraft inbound is needed. It's not always easy to spot aircraft in the air. Some of the aeroclub pilots do call, but the majority do not. The same aeroclub has had a talking to by an RPT operator for not calling when the RPT flight is descending in their area.

[redsnail]

Somehow I don't think extra calls will help, just getting them to call will be useful.
Any reason as to why they don't use the radio properly?

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reddo
Life is good 'till the next stuff up.

[Charlie Foxtrot India]

Usually the cheapskates make no calls, with no regard for safety, so that they can avoid a few dollars worth of landing fees.

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[Checkboard]

I fly RPT, and my company makes its MBZ call at 30nm (about 5 mins out). I usually say "XXX, a 146 jet" in the call, as a heads up that we will be there in 5 mins (about the time for 1 circuit for a lightie) instead of 10 or 15mins.

We add an extra call at 5nm, with our circuit intentions (joining downwind etc), to catch any traffic in the circuit that may have missed the first call, and of course any traffic organisation calls that may be required.

[This message has been edited by Checkboard (edited 09 November 1999).]

[Elvis the Spot King]

The aeroclub owns the field, so landing fees are not the problem. The rationale given to me by aeroclub students is that the CTAF frequency is very busy (used by 3 fields and frequent transits) and that minimal radio use is to prevent congestion. I believe a brief reply to an aircaft inbound that there is cct traffic would benefit safety with minimal extra radio clutter.

[Bendo]

Happy to say, Elvis, that this ain't a prob in my Ctaf! That said, there have been a coupla nearly nasty incidents at fields between your CTAF and my CTAF with RPT Chieftains popping out of clouds from the approach, only to find several C150's making Low Level DUAL circuits.

Instructors at these Aero Clubs (and they're a couple of the biggest in eastern NSW) should have enough nous to either a)teach the stude to make the required call or b)make the bloody call yourself!

[Hugh Jarse]

Elvis, the last sentence of your last post says it all. Getting a response is the greatest difficulty.

FWIW, we usually make a broadcast around 30 miles (just after transition), then prior to the CTAF/MBZ boundary, then joining the circuit. We almost continuously maintain a listening watch on the relative freq. from 30 nm. Generally the locals are good communicators, transiting A/C seem to have the problems communicating with us.

[Ozgrade3]

Last Sunday I flew with a student on a nav to Warnervale(40nm north of Sydney), approaching the circuit I was in radio contact with a parachute ops aircraft, the two of us were the only ones using the radio(Aeropelican CTAF), yet I had visual 3 Cessna 150s in the circuit.

I enquired about this at the aeroclub on the field after we landed and was told it was club policy to discourage the use of the radio as it gets busy there at times. I hate to think of the legal position, should a mid-air collision happen due to the non-use of radio.

[Elvis the Spot King]

While conducting parachute ops I have had transit a/c fly directly under my spot with no response to my 2 minute to drop calls on both CTAF and area. What frequency are they monitoring? I know how hard it is for student pilots to understand radio calls but I name the airport and say parachute drop clearly. Only 2 weeks ago an aircraft flew directly under the drop 30 seconds before exit. There was no response to my calls and I only saw the aircraft as I started my descent. Also, I was conducting aerial photography on the coast recently. about 5 mins into the ops a Bankstown Warrior comes my way close to my level. How do I know it was from Bankstown? Because it came so close I could read the damn school name on the side. I had previously made a call at commencement of ops with my position and intentions, and the transit a/c made no call. I flew straight and level waiting for a call as the a/c flew past, but not a peep. I could have called the aircraft, but was just waiting to see if they would use their initiative.

[Hugh Jarse]

There you go Oz3, how can you expect common sense from people when the WALLIES that run some of these training organisations "discourage" the use of radio as it gets busy?

I hope you told them that if using the radio is a hindrance to their operations that they perhaps should go back to 1915?

It's not as if they have to announce every leg of the circuit - at least acknowledge inbound calls to the CTAF/MBZ (if it's relevant), and it is if they're doing circuits! It all comes down to Airmanship and common sense.

Jeez, sometimes I think people avoid using the radio just to get out of paying landing fees :)

Sorry Dick, it's user pays, now!


[This message has been edited by Hugh Jarse (edited 16 November 1999).]