Instructor pay (again!)

[In-Cog-neeto]

I know this topic has been mentioned before but I want to put forward a few thoughts.

I get £10 for turning up and £10 per flying hour. On a bad day I come home feeling very demoralised having spent all day at the club and paid more in petrol than the tenner I earned!

So when the weather looks 'iffy' I find it easier (and cheaper!) to cancel the day and not turn up.

I know the flying schools have to make a profit but it does seem to be at the expense of the instructor.

Here is an idea. Pay the instructor £45 per day (this is to include the first two hours flying per day) and then £15 per flying hour after that. This way at least I would be motivated to turn up regardless of the weather and would feel a happier person.

No wonder instructors all leave as soon as they get 'the time in'. At this rate I will too.

Think about it....Pay the instructors a living wage and they will be much more motivated....this will lead to better quality instruction, happier students and more successful flying schools.

Note that if you flew only 2 hours a day this would only equal £225 per week and if you flew 4 hours a day then this would be £375 per week. I would not say this is being overpaid!

Comments, remarks, criticism all welcome!!!

Instructors are highly qualified people. Can we not try to do something about this unacceptable situation?

Before you start shouting and accusing me of whinging on....think about it for a second....Are you happy?....Do you feel valued?....Do you willingly accept this state of affairs?

I do love flying and I give the best I can to my students, but at this rate I wonder how long it will be before I too become another one of those instructors who can't get home fast enough, or only gives a VERY short pre-flight and no de-drief at all.

Keep smiling :)

[Oleo]

I have instructed in NZ and the USA. In NZ it was at an aeroclub for $8 a flying hour - but gee I would have done it for free!

Here in the States I started on US$14/hr and then we got a raise to $16 and after I got 500 hrs with the school it went to $19/hr - and this is for briefings as well. You could actually make liveable money from it. Schools here vary a lot with some paying instructors $6/hr (and the bosses drive new BMWs) up to independent operators who charge $30/hr for their services and keep the lot.

Aeroplane hire here is a lot cheaper dollar for dollar (about $60 for an older C172), so with that and the instruction it is still a bit less than the going rate in NZ. (Again $ for $)

It is a quandary - we are professionals who put our lives at risk every day in a very skilled job for which we paid quantum amounts of money to qualify, and yet because demand for the jobs is so inelastic we are "price-takers".

We are worth every cent and more but I think it has to be on an hour for hour user-pays basis. It sure makes the student study harder when you explain to them on the first lesson that if they do the work before the rock up to the flight school it is going to be easier on their pocket. Either that or we can go through it one on one for $30/hr - your choice!

It is hard to think of any occupation, even unskilled, that has a lower hourly rate of pay than ours. But then I don't think flight school operators are raking it in either - it certainly isn't a field I would go into with the idea of making a lot of money!

Unfortunately I can't see how it is going to change. When I get training for myself or a BFR I am happy to pay my colleages - why should they work for nothing??!!

As for the rates in the UK, plane rental is sooooo expensive I would certainly have thought there was scope for adequately compensating their instructors on some sort of fair basis. In my part of the world we have 1 in 3 days IFR so I also know the soul destroying wait at the flight
school! As part of our conditions of employment we weren't allowed to leave in bad wx as a prospective student might wander in and want someone to talk to! Now this we didn't get paid for.

Its a battle guys but the one thing that separates the sheep from the goats in this industry is stickability! Hang in there!!

[In-Cog-neeto]

Not much response here then! (apart from Oleo....thanks)

I guess all instructors who read this forum are happy or too scared to say anything!

Thats life I spose

Incog



[This message has been edited by In-Cog-neeto (edited 02 April 2000).]

[Speed Twelve]

I suppose your point of view on pay depends on whether or not you plan to make a career out of instructing. I agree that the money in the UK is cak, but to be honest, after seven months instructing, I sometimes still can't believe I get paid to go flying at all!

I do intend to get my IR, 700 hrs, and then off. The money will then start to come in, and so I consider instructing as an 'apprenticeship' to jet/turboprop flying.

Let's face it, we didn't get into this game for the money anyway. There's the old chestnut of 'more instructor pay=higher flying club dual rate=less punters=less flying'. How, then, do we as instructors collectively increase salaries paid as a whole? There is only one solution, Comrades! We must strike!

ST.

[A Very Civil Pilot]

I know we all deserve alot more money than we get, but speed 12 does have a point in that pushing up the costs of flying will mean less customers walking in through the door. As a country the UK is disadvantaged in having to pay 17.5% VAT on our flight training, wheras the rest of JAR don't. Trying to get this removed will be a start in providing a better margin in training and, hopefully a more realistic pay deal for the instructor.

[In-Cog-neeto]

Interesting comments guys

I still think that students would be more than happy to pay an extra 5 or 10 quid per hour for 'quality instruction'

Also my club charges £23 per hour for the instructor (me!) but I only get £10

No instructors = no students

Come to think about it ..... 'Long live the revolution!

Yeah, a strike does seem appealing......

Incog

[chicken6]

What's going on here?

quote: Not much response here then! (apart from Oleo....thanks)
I guess all instructors who read this forum are happy or too scared to say anything!


I posted at least two replies here, one before Oleo (hence Oleo's reference to NZ when I mentioned how little we earn here) and one a bit later on.

Moderators, where have the posts gone?

Safe flying

[azzie]

in cog neeto,

i posted here too, but chicken6 posted under my name (!). I think he really likes me, why else would he steal my name. either that or he wants to get me in trouble. wherever you are chicken6, i'm coming after you.......

as for instructor pay....i have just reduced my days for instructing because i can not afford to hang around the club all day getting paid nothing. i finally ran out of money last week and as much as i would like to devote all my time to building up my hours, someone has to pay the bills and if it ain't me then i don't know who.

i think that if clubs are going to charge say $40 per instructor hour the instructor should at least get half as they are actually the ones doing the work.

i could go on forever and ever amen about pay as it really does suck, but i'm just hoping that i look back and think it was worth it in the end. and i hope my experience means that one day i can encourage others to stick at it while going through the same thing.

as for chicken6, don't worry about me 'going to get him' as we know each other and he is bigger than me.....

------------------
"if there is no peril in the fight, there is no glory in the triumph"

[Charlie Foxtrot India]

Sorry chicken6, I don't know what happened to your post, actually I never saw it, so a pprune gremlin must have got it. Please post it again if you like.

Instructor pay is going to be low for as long as the ones who are being supported by other means offer to work for free, and the unscrupulous employers take them on.

[chicken6]

Thanks CFI for responding, it was here for about a week accidentally posted under azzie's name, bit strange the whole thing really.

My post went along the lines of:

I agree that we deserve more than we get. However I can also see that we are one of the few ways for our employers to make money yada yada yada along those lines. I would like to know where the other money goes before I brought the situation up with my boss, as I know the club has had severe financial difficulty in the past. FYI, I get hired out at $40/flying or groundschool hour, briefings are free. When I'm flying I receive $15/hr, groundschool I get $10/hr. This is occasionally enough to cover the petrol for the 45 min drive to and from every working day and food. Some months I even make a modest profit. But not often, and it depends how much I don't eat for lunch.

Safe flying :)

[Sensible]

Sorry guys, but the is the way it works in the market place is that the scarcer the comodity and the greater the demand, the greater the cost of the product - seen it before when vegetables become scarce because of bad weather on the farms etc. The way it is with flying instructors is that there is an apparent surplus of instructors and therefore they are prepared to work at low pay rates and the ones that I have spoken to regard the job as transitional and rightly belive that it is important not to make waves.

I don't see any possibility of change until or unless there is a shortage of instructors in the market place and demand outstrips supply. As it is, Plumbers are in short supply wheras pilot instructors are not. - And that's the reality.

[britavia]

Currently here in the USA, FIs are becoming a rare species! A lot of the larger schools i.e. ERAU etc have actually increased their pay rates. Good news for new/low time instructors, but not for higher time ones because there are better paid jobs out there flying the real thing.

[ppr]

Most instructors would appear to be using instructing as a vehicle to move on to greater things and therefor pay (and conditions) may not be important to them. However, what is the case for professional instructors. Surely they must exist and would require a fair deal.

[foxmoth]

With the advent of JAR and the requirements both for PPLs to have a dual check to renew, plus making it harder to maintain an F.I. rating, AND the fact it is no longer the short cut to an Airline job, I don't think it will be long beforewe see instructor rates go up. I think the probable scenario for the future is a split, with some schools charging more, and using full time (& better paid) instructors, and other schools charging less and using part timers.

[In-Cog-neeto]

Thanks for the replys guys

Where is this U.K instructor shortage then?

Incog