Air Canada Seniority

[YVRKid]

I was just wondering....seeing its my "life goal" (for know, its changed many times and probably will change again) to fly A319s with Air Canada...how long would it take to get into the right seat, then the left seat. Seeing the DH8, 142 are with Jazz, and thats seperate, would I start in the mainline CRJ200s then work up to the 700s, EMB-190s and then the A319? Or could I skip a plane or two? Or could I even possibly be a direct entry into the A319? How long (approx.) would I be flying in each aircraft before I got into the A319. I know its hard to give exact answers but thanks for any insight.

-Matthew

[Panama Jack]

It all kinda depends-- most critically these days, on if Air Canada survives and when they recruit again. Also the fate of their A-319's is a big question, as there is talk about them being transfered to ZIP, and who will fly them after restructuring is complete (currently mainline pilots, but surprises have a way of popping up).

Having said all that, AC has in the past direct hired into the right seat of the 319's . . . all depends on what base, what the requirements are (whether there is a need or not), what senority number you are assigned during your new-hire class, and of course, what you bid. If you don't get onto the 319 initially, how long it takes to get onto that airplane depends on internal movement. It is entirely foolish to give a date on that. Case in point-- previously, Air Nova's time from FO Dash 8 to Captain was about a year. Now adays it is considered to be about 15 years-- but all of that could change tomorrow, of course!

[YVRKid]

thanks for the reply, but as memory serves me, Air Canada is scraping ZIP along with the 737s so the A319s are staying mainline....as you said, things could change tomorrow....which means I have atleast 3650 more tomorrows before I'm eligible to apply...I'm just curious...thanks.

[Saltaire]

Air Canada is not exactly an exciting employer right now, but there is still hope. Likely with all the EMB and CRJ's, no new-hires will likely start on a 319-320 for a long time. Those that I know that are still on furlough ( laid off ) will likely be on the CRJ or EMB for 3-5 years and then once all the retirements in 07 and beyond take effect you might see quicker movement, but I wouldn't expect anything significant until 2007-8. Zip is finished, as you correctly mentioned and all the 737's will be gone soon. Sounds like you have lots of time, the average age on the last course at AC was 33, with about 5000 hrs.

Good luck

[YVRKid]

Thanks for that...I do have a long way to go, I'm only 15, its too early to tell anything. Thanks.

[L_T]

To all the experts, quick question....

Has to do with "Seniority(as was the topics title)"

The pilots that were laid-off, how was it done??

I'm debating with a friend on how seniority works,

My theory was/is those that were the lowest in the hiring pool were laid off..

His theory was that the First Officers were let go first, so a Captain with 1 year seniority(w/ the company) would not have been cut because an F/O with 5 years seniority would have been lost instead, because he's an F/O.

But my understanding of the airlines is, you get your Company seniority on the date of hire(which they do lay offs, promotions etc. with) and you have your type seniority.

So even though you've worked with X for 20 years if you've just moved to the 747 you'll have the lowest seniority in that department, and they use that seniority for scheduling, pay etc?

Thanks in advance.

[Saltaire]

Seniority is everything, and you won the bet. Last in.......first out. Even if you were hired directly into the left seat of the 747 ( in theory ) if you were hired near the bottom and deemed to be laid-off........so sorry. It can work in your favor with good seniority, but as when you're at the bottom, it affects your schedule, holidays, pay, travel priority, etc.....it finally culminates about 25 years later as captain on large equipment, with a good schedule, good holiday time etc.......Some companies like WJ and others offer a rotating system, where everyone shares the pleasure and pain.

[Panama Jack]

As Saltaire said, senority isn't the most important thing . . . it's everything.

This is why you have some relatively senior pilots bidding FO positions rather than Captain. Why? Since their job security is not the issue, other things such as having more influence in their schedule, where they want to live, what kind of flying they want to do, or they really like the type of airplane. I've know a few fellows for whom money is not the major issue-- one's wife was a highly sought after attorney, he just went to fly to get out of the mansion.

[justcurious]

Its easier to view traditional seniority structures with an Excel Spreadsheet in the back of your mind.

Bottom left of the sheet: lots of working nights weeekends and holidays. Rise to the top of the first column, and the money and schedule are better for your homelife (and paying for it;) ). Shift a column over, and the 'on reserve', flying Christmas Eve, and on your wife's birthday start all over again.

What changes as you shift columns is that: A) the view from your office changes (view from the left corner window, or a bigger faster cubicle). B) you receive more cash, but your new office may be in another building (you may have to change bases from say YVR to YHZ).

It takes most of your working life to go to the top of the right hand column. While most people generally enjoy the ride all the way along, their families may have conflicting opinions.

While I'm in the top right hand column where I am :p, I can see a lot of merit to WestJet's system. There, seniority applies to upgrades only (for all intents and purposes). As I see it, each working month a pilot receives 'X' points to bid on days on or off. Don't want to overnight for the next few months because you have a new baby in the family? 'Y' points will cover that. Points unused accumulate in the bank.

Essentially, the key events in your life, or your approach to work/ home time reflects how many points you are willing to bid to secure your kid's birthday, or your anniversary off.

If you were single, and just wanted to fly as much as you legally could and accumulate points so you could disappear to someplace tropical for a long stretch: you could bid the long, difficult pairings over several long weekends (on the night shift), and build points to bank for when you needed to get away.

In fact since my current weather is rather dismal (CYRB 091300Z 15008KT 4SM BR BKN003 OVC007 M01/M02 A2992 RMK SF3SC3 SUN DIMLY VIS SLP141), that tropical thing sounds like a great idea right about now.