Lack of Knowledge?

[SATCO Biggin]

Just when I started to believe that humans may not exterminate themselves from the planet I come across the sort of thing that confrims that we may do it after all :}

Some 'pilot' just flew through my overhead thinking that my Aerodrome Traffic Zone only extended vertically to 1,500 feet. Thus he ignored ATC instructions, even though he was talking to us, and could have easily ended up with a Lear Jet buried in his windscreen.

Now we here at Biggin try to accomodate as many 'zone transits' as life throws at us but I am wondering if there are many qualified pilots flying around who do not know the simple things in life like the dimensions of an ATZ. :uhoh:

Coffe coffee I need more coffee.

[PPRuNe Radar]

You need a CA939. And the local court can get some more revenue :}

Wasn't a US registered Cessna 182 by any chance ?? There was one causing havoc along the length of the UK yesterday !!

[S-Works]

honest, I thought it was OK to swan through at whatever height I liked as its not in controlled airspace and the view of the runway was very nice with all of those people waving and sending red fireworks up.......

:p

[skydriller]

Maybe the guy wasnt british? no excuse to not know local regulations, but it might explain it...

[Kolibear]

I've noticed on the chart that the lowest height on the hold NE of Biggin, (ALKIN) is 1800ft.

Does any traffic ever get held down to that level and is there any chance of me, VFR in my SEP at 2400, looking down on a 747??.

That particular hold is due south of, and only a few miles away from the Dartford Bridge, a popular waypoint, so I'l be interested to know if I'm likely to meet heavy traffic there.

[Mike Cross]

Mmm... maybe he needs education in the difference between QNH and QFE. 2100 ft on the QNH is near as dammit 1500 ft AGL for you. (maybe he was from Norfolk or Les Pays Bas?)

[Wycombe]

....well I had a very nice lady clear me through your ATZ (NE-SW)at 2200' QNH on Tuesday evening. Presumably if there was something holding at ALKIN, either Thames (who I was speaking to previously) or yourselves would have told me?

[SATCO Biggin]

Skydriller

Unfortunately it was a very British accent (dare I say English), although the aircraft was foreign registered.

Kolibear

Although the lowest altitude for holding at Alkin is 1800 ATC are unlikely to specify anything less than 2000 :O Devices the size of 747's are not catered for although in theory you could see 737's there. In reality most heavy metal is radar vectored by Thames Radar so they do not enter the hold. It is possible to come across exec. jet traffic training in the hold but they will normally also get a service from Thames.

Mike Cross

That thought had also crossed my mind. Hate to think what he would do if he came across an airfield with an elevation higher than 2000 ft. (not that I can think of one in this country) :hmm:

[M609]

Wasn't a US registered Cessna 182 by any chance ?? There was one causing havoc along the length of the UK yesterday !!

Was not a C185 by any chance? One N-reg passed trough here from the north cape heading for the UK via Tronheim/ENVA 3 days ago. He displayed somewhat "flexible" knowledge of our airspcace as well as minimum IFR altitudes in alpine terrain.
Made for a interesting shift!

Sounded like a Brit.

[PPRuNe Radar]

Definitely a Cessna 182Q. The name of one of the people on board ties up with the FAA listed owner :ok: Should be a bit of mail awaiting him when he gets home ;)

[englishal]

I think they should ban QFE....I'm sure that as pilots we should be able to work out our altitude MSL - airfield evelation = agl

(though judging from some of the posts on here, I'm not so sure.... )

[AlanM]

As SB says, you will rarely see too much holding at ALKIN as it gets in the way of LCY/BIG traffic. We try and hold there at 3000 feet if it is the "heavy stuff".

You will often see BIG IFR trainingttraffic there though, on ILS/VOR trg approaches at 1800-2400 ft.

Oddly enough - this morning there was in interesting call from BIG tower.... (top chicks!!!) :)

"We think two Swedish Aircraft are heading South from us at 2000ft"

And when given a squawk they were indentified and looking for DET (Doh!)

They were turned East (now in the Gatwick CTA at 6 mile file for runway 26) and sent to us on Thames.

After establishing that they were now heading East out of the Zone/CTA, I advised them and asked "are you aware of the gatwick zone and the controlled airspace in this are"

The pilot simply replied... "not Particularly!"

They should be in France by now.... god willing! :)

[Skyscrapper]

AlanM

this morning there was in interesting call from BIG tower.... (top chicks!!!)

I couldn't agree more:ok:

[Timothy]

...you see that's the mistake they all make...

I was always told that to transit airspace safely you switch off the transponder and don't talk on the radio. Now part of standard operations at Essex, isn't it?

It's not surprising these guys get caught if they will insist on telling everyone what they are doing.
:p :p :rolleyes:

[AlanM]

Timothy - thats is exactly WHAT they did!! They were negative Mode A and C. It was BIG tower who visually saw them head due south!!

The primary was there right enough!

Let's hear it for the Biggin Babes!!! :)

http://www.stopstart.fsnet.co.uk/Gif/mspig.gif

[Panama Jack]

Does being a "Brit" mean much these days? Keep in mind that many Brits don't hold UK licences, seeing as they complete their training in the US.

[SATCO Biggin]

AlanM

I will pass on your regards to the 'Biggin Babes' along with the graphic at the bottom of your last post.

:p

Regards

SB

[AlanM]

Take cover!!

(Think I might go sick today........ :))

On a serious note - I am amzed at the number of forms we have filled in for zone infringers in the last 3 days.

Some have been foreigners, some caught out by a fairly brisk eaterly wind, but someone called for a FIS from Elstree routing direct to DET who was shocked when I mentioned the LCY zone.

6 in three days is bit tooo much!

(and you can work out which babe fits the graphic!!)

[SATCO Biggin]

On a serious note - I am amzed at the number of forms we have filled in for zone infringers in the last 3 days.

Things seem to be going through bit of a 'phase' at the moment. We have given up reporting on most of the ATZ infringers. The silliest one we have at the moment is an SF25 motorglider who speaks to no one, flies through the 21 ILS final approach at 3 miles, enters the ATZ at the nortwest corner at circuit altitude (reported by those who avoid him) and lands somewhere in a field just to the west of Kenley. He does this on a frequent basis, maybe twice a week and is obviously unconcerned about our circuit traffic whistling around him.

Whatever happened to self preservation? I blame civilisation for all this. In most other animals selection of the fittest would have solved the problem. :(

On the other matter I am trying to tie up your graphic with one of the babes but wish to remain in possession of my private parts so I cannot just wander up to one and search for likenesses :ooh:

[AlanM]

It is sad but true to report that if you don't fill in the paperwork then NOTHING will ever happen. The CAA then don't believe there is a problem. I HATE FILLING IN MOR's!

Oh - and a clue.... she wasn;t in today!

:O

[IO540]

No good moaning about the pilots, moan about/to the instructors that take £5000-£8000 off somebody for this kind of "training".

And while you are at it, have a moan at the CAA and the boring-old-fart "you must learn proper airmanship, young man" crowd for its anti-GPS attitude which ensures that the only way a lot of people can know where they are relative to airspace is by spending their entire flying life firmly in their local area (like the instructors, actually) ;)

[shortstripper]

So GPS is the answer eh?

Hmmmm, I've been flying for the last 18 years wthout one and not busted any airspace yet .... suppose I'd better risk it no longer and go get one. I suppose I can at least save on buying those useless charts thingy's each year; but then what will I do for workshop wallpaper? ;)

SS