JAR PPL C of E - flying with an instructor

[climbs like a dog]

1) Anyone received any guidance about the flight detail to be covered?

2) What sort of standards we are working to while assessing/practicing the pilot?

I don't know about yourselves, but I am sometimes far more wary while checking out a qualified PPL than I am teaching a challenging PPL student.

Where does this leave us if we've flown with Tarquin, who has an iffy flight. We give him the benefit of the doubt and sign his logbook. He then proceeds to stoof it in before his next C of E, killing or crippling himself and half a playground-full of children. How liable are we? At the moment on an iffy checkride (nothing to do with C of E renewal) I'd be inclined to let it ride and have an in-depth discussion on the ground; unless it was absolutely dire in which case they would have to fly again.

Thoughts / comments please.

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[BEagle]

Suggest that you tell Tarquin that, in your opinion, he is unsafe in whatever area you consider relevant and should rectify the situation by further training before he carries any passengers. If he argues, say that you will refer the matter to the CAA Safety Regulation Group with the recommendation that Tarquin flies a Proficiency Check with an Examiner and that his PPL(A) should be suspended until this has been achieved.

[Wee Weasley Welshman]

If they've got a PPL thats valid plus the min hours requirment for the 13 months plus a valid class/type endorsement then you have no legal duty to them. Best to check the paperwork though - I reckon a third of the PPL's I see for checkrides have never been checked properly (ie by an instructor) on an a/c/ type or are way way out of currency.

Cheers

WWW

[climbs like a dog]

Errrm... JAR FCL requires that to revalidate a C of E or T a pilot has to have satisfied 2 out of 3 criteria within the last 12 months of the last certificate, 12 Hrs of which 6 PIC (?), a flight with an instructor of at least one hour duration signed off in the logbook, a flight with an examiner. The last 13 month C of E under the old system will be signed off Jan 2000. Therefore, next year you could be asked to fly one of these instructor flights. You will then sign the relevant entry in their logbook to say that the flight was carried out to a satisfactory standard (should that be the case) or you don't sign if it isn't. If that is the case they either do the instruction you require or fly with an examiner (or they go to a different instructor ;) ).

Some, but not all of the checkrides I've done have shown that PFL's, in particular, are very rusty. Indeed I normally try to treat it as a revision exercise because of the standard. Some didn't even seem to have ever fully stalled an aircraft and held it there.

If the checkride is now going to become a regulatory requirement for the C of E renewal surely that puts the instructor in the firing line if there's a subsequent accident down to poor skills. Having thought about the standards, you could just use the PPL skill test requirements but....how many PPL's, some with minimal experience since their last C of E/T, are going to match those standards.

In the GA magazines there was even some talk of instructors having to have some insurance against litigious third-parties. Now I'm not suggesting that we all rush off to phone direct line. There's a lot of noise and words about JAR and the PPL but not too much detail for those charged with implementing it.

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[This message has been edited by climbs like a dog (edited 07 October 1999).]

[rolling circle]

From the last Flight Examiners Standardisation Meeting at Gatwick:

Format of the dual training flight -

1. Pre-flight & Departure to include:
Aircraft knowledge; Mass & Balance; Pre-flight preparation; Pre-start and After-start checks; Taxiing; Pre-Take off checks; Take off & depart; ATC liaison & compliance.

2. General Airwork to include:
Climbing at best angle & rate; Straight & level cruising flight; Steep turns at not less that 45 degrees bank; Clean stall & recovery; Approach configuration stall & recovery; Incipient spin recovery.

3. Emergency Operation to include:
EFATO; PFL from min. 2000ft agl; Simulated precautionary landing; Engine fire & other simulated emergencies.

4. Arrival and Landing Procedures to include:
Aerodrome arrival procedures; Precision landing in accordance with the performance criteria in the aircraft manual; Flapless landing; x-wind landing if appropriate.

The test standard is that all manoeuvres should be completed in a 'safe, proficient and practical manner'. The flight is logged as dual and, if satisfactory, countersigned by the FI.

Someone asked the question about responsibility/litigation etc. and was fobbed off by the Chief Flight Examiner. The party line is that the FI is not reponsible for any subsequent happenings but don't expect the CAA to lift a finger to help.