Ryanair new routes

[Nothrills]

Hahn-Santander daily from 31.10.
Hahn-Riga daily from 31.10.

Stansted-Santander daily from 20.9.
Stansted-Riga daily from 31.10.
Stansted-Zaragoza daily from 1.12.

Rome-Ciampino-Santander daily from 20.9.
Rome-Ciampino-Eindhoven daily from 20.9.

Tampere-Riga daily from 31.10.

Source:
http://www.airliners.de/community/forum/viewtopic.php?topic=18899&forum=9&0

[The_Bean_Counter]

Cant see the Tampere Riga working but all of the others should do ok

[Tom the Tenor]

Some great routes there. Stansted to Zaragoza is a dream come true. No more long coach journeys from BCN when you are already knackered! Stansted to Santander will be a winner too I am sure.

[Runway 31]

The Riga route should work out fine. Riga is the party destination for the young free and single. It is also being touted as the new Prague.

[WHBM]

There's plenty of traffic, both air and shipping, down the east side of the Baltic between Finland (established "western" EC state in the region) and the three new "liberated" countries of Estonia, Latvia and Lithuania. Riga is the largest city in these three countries, and Air Baltic, the Latvian airline, has made a poor showing from there with only a handful of jet services so far (nice livery though !)

Tampere is the second city of Finland, and Ryanair's focus city in the country. It's little further from Helsinki than Hahn is from Frankfurt (not saying much I know).

When will Ryanair or Easy bite the bullet and move on St Petersburg and Moscow ?

[CargoOne]

WHBM

I don't think RYR is interested to fly SNN-MOW or SNN-LED. No other route to Russia MoL can even dream about. This market is strictly ruled by bilateral agreements. Same with Easyjet.

Also, many bilaterals are written in such way that there is technically no place for LoCos even if they want to be a part.

[WHBM]

CargoOne:

I think that's traditional thinking of the type that led the established European majors to have markets lost to new competitors before they realised it. There is considerable pressure from Russia, right from the top at Presidential level, to integrate their country much more into Europe, which is now seen as their natural trading area, while the now considerable penetration of European goods into Russia (not least Airbuses!) shows it is a two-way street.

It's not there yet but there's been so much change in the last 10 years and the next few will be equally volatile. A liberalised air agreement with the EU would be a tremendous place for them to start, and an airline that gets in at the beginning of that would stand to gain immensely.

[bacardi walla]

I see the normal FR cr@p about BA's high fares appears on their website. Why do FR state BA's London - Riga fare as being £674 one way when it clearly isn't? I looked at 6 varying departures from LHR to Riga and the average fare is £140 RETURN inc taxes. Also, FR state the comparison is based on a BA departure of 14JUL04. Why compare it with their own flights which don't start until 31OCT04 ?

Also, which current FR routes are going to close as a result of the new ones starting? Someone somewhere is going to suffer a loss of service.....:confused:

[egnxema]

bacardi - why would some other routes have to be cut? Don't Ryanair have new hulls arriving virtually every month?

[bacardi walla]

Yes, but as I mentioned in previous FR threads, the -300's are more than likely going to vanish. That leaves certain destinations open to closure (if you see what I mean). Not all the remaining -200's will be able to cover the current lines.

LRH, AOC, LDY being just 3.....

[CargoOne]

WHBM

It's not there yet but there's been so much change in the last 10 years and the next few will be equally volatile. A liberalised air agreement with the EU would be a tremendous place for them to start, and an airline that gets in at the beginning of that would stand to gain immensely.

Are you seriously thinking that RYR will be around in 10 years time? I don't think so. At least it would be a very different RYR from what is it now. Traditional carriers already made their step to change downwards in terms of costs. Believe me, in 1 or 2 years time RYR and similar lowcosts will either disappear or will make a step upwards in pricing, so finally it would be very similar price and service on al intra-European routes. RYR started to dive Q4/2003 so let's wait until March 2005 to see the total score...

LoCos are not competitive on medium and long haul routes, longer you fly more unavoidable costs you have (fuel/mx/irc/etc), and rates are already quite low.

Also if you consider macro economical issues, the LoCos are not making the whole market better. In fact they making it worse. All LoCos primary goal is to reduce costs and expenses. OK, it allows them to offer a cheaper rates to passengers who are happy about it. However on more wide perspective it means they paying/spending less money, which is mean that suppliers, staff etc are getting less. Money are not dissapearing to nowhere in any case, doesn't matter if it is BA money or FR money. If one company spent more money it means other earned more. In their turn suppliers have less money to pay to their staff etc. In next turn people then spending less money on their expenses, including air travel etc.

Russia and China are most restrictive countries on this planet in terms of bilaterals and I don't see it would change in nearest future.

[nickmanl]

Not really, ryanair are here to stay, so are easyjet and they will still be operating exactly the same as they are today in 10 years time! These two airlines are the two major locos in europe and probably the biggest and most powerful locos in the world along with southwest.

In a few years other low costs will disappear, such as FlyBe, Mytravellite, possibly Jet2 etc. This will mean more markets for Ryanair and easyjet to exploit.

Also, you said traditional airlines have already made a dive down in ticket prices.

Not really - only BA and possibly Lufthansa have done this in order to compete with Ryanair and Easyjet!. Major airlines that are living of state handouts and controlling monoplies in their country aren't reducing tickets at all - look at Air France and Alitalia.

There is a long long way to go before Ryanair and Easy will hike their prices up.

[ALLMCC]

Eat your heart out Russell Grant! Perhaps the old adage "THE BIGGER THEY ARE THE HARDER THEY FALL" might be appropriate here - judging by the recent stock market performance of both Easyjet & to a lesser extent Ryanair there is little room for complacency in either camp.

You might like to share the rationale behind such a sweeping prediction!

[Findo]

CargoOne

I don't think RYR is interested to fly SNN-MOW or SNN-LED. No other route to Russia MoL can even dream about. This market is strictly ruled by bilateral agreements

So what is to stop them for applying for flights from Sansted ?

[CargoOne]

Findo

Before Ryanair's application for regular traffic rights from STN to Russia could be even considered, MoL should complete all of the following steps:
1) establish a company incorporated under the law of England and Wales ;)
2) get UK AOC
3) prove that 51%+ of this company is effectively owned/controlled by UK citizens/residents.

Otherwise he is not elegible even to apply under bilateral agreement terms.
Don't forget: open skies exist only WITHIN EU. Russia, China, USA and others are not considering EU as a single country, but treat it country by country. Any EU carrier operating from EU country (other than country of AOC) to non-EU country is effectively operating 5th freedom flights and should seek the rights for that. 5th freedom and Russia... Just forget about it.

[colegate]

CargoOne.

What you have written above is in the course of changing. The EU has established that it has the sole authority for negotiating air service agreemnets on behalf of EU states. It is currently doing this with the USA and is intervening in other negotiations. The recent agreement between the UK and Hong Kong/Australia needed EU approval.

It is only a matter of time before other states sign up to EU wide agreements. When that happens it will be possible for RYR/EZY and many others to take advantage of new rights. Two such agreements already exist in Europe (with Norway and Switzerland) . RYR uses the agreement with Norway. EZY uses the agreement with Switzerland.

[CargoOne]

colegate

Yes I know. But could you remind me when EU-USA negotiations has been initiated? Was that a Ronald Reagan time or even earlier?
Don't forget that is EU intension to make other countries to treat EU (Brussels) as a signle HDQ for all member states. It doesn't mean other countries (especially China and Russia) will agree. To be honest I don't see legal grounds which may force other countries to accept it apart from good will. EU is not a country, it is just a Union so technically all member states should be treated separately.

Ofcourse things are changing but not that fast. Would it take 5 years or 10 years or 15 no one really knows.

[Shed-on-a-Pole]

It would be a very risky strategy for the locos to tackle destinations where arriving passengers face stringent visa requirements. I believe Russia is still such a country. Devastates a market's "short-break" appeal.

[MarkD]

Could Russian flights operate using Buzz or is that finally defunct? I seem to recall some folk on proon musing on extra-EU flights when Buzz was bought...

[bacardi walla]

Buzz defunct - whatever next ??

[iceman51]

Cargo One

colegate is right. It will take some time, but it wil lbe that way.

Furthermore

Before Ryanair's application for regular traffic rights from STN to Russia could be even considered, MoL should complete all of the following steps:

MOL has non need to complete any of the steps you mentioned at all. He has already a UK AOC: it has bought Buzz and he will keep its licence current, might be even with only one flight.

MOL had no interest at all in Buzz ...except its AOC, and paid petty cash for it (tax deductable of course).

We can disagree a lot about MOL, but one thing is sure: he does good businesses and next big target will be Italy. It's like an aircraft carrier 1,200 km long sitting in the Med sea, with ALL the local airlines bust or having problems (would you imagine Meridiana, Air One (managed by LH) fighting with FR, not to mention Alitalia, etc.)

It's only question of time. FR is getting 738 on a monthly basis over the next five years. Many, I belive, will head out to the "Bel Paese".

FR has just started to connect the dots of any Italian 738 capable airport with its north European bases, then will start domestic flights. In this respect, you have to consider Italy has a very limited high speed train network, only between Milan and Rome stretchinh to Naples in the future (2007), and even when the northern line wil be conpleted - 2010? - between Turin and Venice it will always be about 3 hours vs. 45' flight and currently no offer. VFR traffic is waiting FR to start domestic flight. When AP and IQ reduced this spring their fares (any way by far higher than avg FR fares) between TRN, SUF,CTA,PMO,NAP,BRI and introduced new flights it was a double digit traffic increase. And after domestic flight, from CIA many other destinations will be available. It's only a matter to find a good airport. You wan't believe it, but between Athens and Italy there are flts only to Milan and Rome, and not so many!

So keep on flying FR :ok:

[Findo]

Quite right iceman51. Mr O'Leary stated at the time of buying Buzz that getting the AOC was important in allowing him expansion from the UK to non EU countries.

As far as shareholding is concerned I don't believe the 51% British is a requirment as he is a EU passport holder. :cool:

[bacardi walla]

....and if he closes Buzz, he closes the UK AOC.

[CargoOne]

Sorry I really forgot about Buzz :)
OK, let's wait for a few years and see how it goes. As I mentioned already March 2005 will show the trend.