Instructor in Oz

[Robbo2Alpha]

I am curious to know what kind of salary would be available to a commercial flying instructor in Australia? I hear horror stories of 40k dollars per year, this cannot be so, can it?

[Deputy]

Dear Robbo2A,
If by Commercial Flying Instructor, you mean the run of the mill earning an income flying instructor. Then I have some news for you.
The 40k per annum is a bit off the mark. The industry award rate for full time employment (if you can get it) is still in the low 20K AUD. That is junior Gr.3 VFR S/E. A CFI with Multi IFR testing may get 40K. I dont have the figures on hand but others would have a better idea.
What is the money you get in your part of the world?

[Tinstaafl]

And that doesn't include the vast numbers who are on casual pay; generally based on flying hours, not duty hours.

Possibly reading a bit more into your post, but all instructors here are commercial, instructors ie. to hold the rating requires minimum CPL + night rating and can instruct to those levels

Sometimes I feel only instructors appreciate the skills of instructors.

[Luke SkyToddler]

Well based on $15 per flying hour ( a good industry average for the dununda flying instructor) I am on track to earn somewhere between 8 and 10 thousand kiwi dollars gross this year. About 6 thousand kiwi in the hand, or to put it in perspective around 2 thousand English pounds. I'm a relatively senior instructor, responsible for course design and delivery for a large group of CPL students at one of the more prestigious flying schools in NZ. Truth is, Robbo, you can not make enough money to live on an instructor's wage in this country. end of story. 40,000 Aussie dollars is a pipe dream, I'd like to meet a single instructor earning that sort of cash (unless they own the flying school).

[Charlie Foxtrot India]

In the "casual" instructing environment, it is very much up to the individual how much they earn. For an instructor who does the right thing by their students and gains a good reputation, 40K is not far off the mark. Some of my instructors take home a lot more than I do and yes, I own the school!

An instructor rating doesn't mean that GA owes you a living. (whatever you may be told when you sign up for the instructor course!)



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[Luke SkyToddler]

I agree with you Charlie Fox, GA doesn't owe anyone a living, but neither is there any excuse for the prevailing attitude at many (read "most") flying schools of "well if you don't do it for free I know ten other people who will". On my current wages I'd have to be in the air for about 3 thousand hours a year to make forty grand (i.e. logging over 50 hours a week). Truth is that I do work more than forty hours most weeks and get paid for about ten of those hours. If it rains for a few days, I don't get paid at all! I'm positive at work and I do develop a good rapport with my students, but I just wish there was a light at the end of the tunnel sometimes! The stress of not knowing whether I'll get paid this week - going further into debt just to stay afloat - really takes its' toll after a while.

It wasn't always like this - there has been a real downward spiral of conditions for instructors in the last few years in NZ due to the pressure on jobs created by the number of young people moving into the system with nowhere to go. This problem has in turn been created by the absolute lack of movement within the airlines since the early '90s. Maybe things are different in Oz. I appreciate from an operator's point of view that the profit margins in GA are paper thin, but it's also my opinion that good staff are a company's best asset. Perhaps it's time for an across-the-board price hike in training costs, and actually budget a factor in there for paying the pilots a living. That is, after all, what happens in the airlines, why can't it be the case in GA?

Gosh that sounds depressing! I'm not trying to whinge but I think it's important that anyone contemplating going instructing down here should walk into it with their eyes open and not expect to actually earn a living from doing it, not at first anyway.

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Use the force!!

[Robbo2Alpha]

Gee sobbering reading chaps! Oxford have opened a new facility here at Perth (thats the original Perth) and are looking at paying around 30k (UK money), thats 75k aussie I think, and the living around PTH is very reasonable expense wise. Over here only experienced instructors can teach to commercial level, so maybe oz does not really have an equivilant seeing as anyone can teach the whole remit. Still, for an experienced instructor over there it sounds grim! Hey CFI, do you do UK training at your school? Many schools in the states are now training towards a UK licence, maybe some Brits would like to do their UK licence in the best country on earth instead! :)

[Charlie Foxtrot India]

I would love to do UK training here, but the cost of getting the approval would make it uneconomical, by the time that cost had been built in to the training costs, it would be no cheaper than doing it in the UK!
What I do is to train and test people for the Australian licences, add what is needed for the UK syllabus (having been an instructor in the UK before I came here) and then they can do the exams and licence conversions back in the UK. That's the cheapest way.

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[Whiskey Hotel Delta]

For the record, if you are fortunate enough to be employed by a large enough company, with reasonable management, it is possible to earn a satisfactory living as a professional flight instructor. In my case, I guess I am fortunate, as are most of my fellow employees.

Mind you, in the beginning (about 10 years ago) things were very different. Casual wages were disgusting, then. I recall being paid about A$15 per flying hour. However, there was a fair bit of flying about then, unlike now. Over time, some rather intense negotiations saw our company comply with the law in this country and actually remunerate its staff to Award levels.

Now, my salary is over A$40K, although it is still a little short of the Award for my position (about A$3K). I am fairly senior, having similar responsibilities as our friend Luke Sky Toddler.

Like the voices above, I agree that GA does not owe anyone a living - no industry does. However, I fell very strongly about the operators who feel it is their right to enter into a business venture, knowing that the opportunities are limited, with the concept that they have absolutely no obligation to remunerate their staff in accordance with national laws. Employees and employers have the right to earn a living, however some employers seem to forget it is they who have chosen to accept the liabilities of business.
It is certainly time for the profits of organisations in this sector of the industry to be increased. However, when one reflects on the completely inefficient manner with which this industry has operated, since its inception, it is unlikely that anything of the sort will occur. At least not in my lifetime, I suspect.

Like most, I love my job (I would not have continued my employment for 10 years, otherwise), I love flying and I love teaching. I am eternally loyal to my employer of 10 years, and respect the organisation immensely. I just wish it was something that would satisfy the financial goals along the way.

[triadic]

What do they say...?
If you pay peanuts....

Don't have to be very bright to work out why the average student is so poor these days?

Make it harder to be an instructor.. pay them a decent wage and ensure those responsible provide the appropriate supervision at all levels...

Then we might see two things...
Happier and beter paid instructors, and
a better product ... it certainly can't get much worse.

[Robbo2Alpha]

Triadic, you've hit the nail on the head there. In the UK they do just that, its called 509, only those instructors can teach to commercial level, they are properly trained and checked (to airline standards), and they earn a good salary, on average around 35k UK pounds. We are lucky though, this system has been around for a long time and so the 'professional' instructors position and earning power have been protected. BTW, CFI, you do not need any expensive approval to train to the UK PPL you know!