PPL in USA Advice , Naples or Orlando ?

[BomberB]

Hi All,

This is my first post and I have the difficult decsion of selecting a flying school.

It is my intention to continue my flying lessons over in the US as my time in flying in the UK has been slow i.e. limited instructor availability or flight's cancelled due to weather.

I was wondering if any of your out there has learn to fly at either Naples Air Center or Orlando Flight Training to carry out PPL ???

What is the general consensus / views ?


My family are considering going over so I think that OFT would be be the option for this. I beleive that Naples is also a good school.

Any information is most welcome.

Thanks
BB

[Brooklands]

Bomber,

Try putting "Naples AIr Centre" or "Orlando Flight Centre" into the search facility, and selecting the Pivate FLying forum to search. You should get a screenfull of threads which should contain some useful info.

[Flyin'Dutch']

No doubt that there is more to do for the family in the Orlando area than near Naples.

Naples is pleasant enough, although I did not manage to see much of it when I was over there in January as I was 'working' so hard.

I have no experience in flying out of Orlando.

A number of friends and acquaintances had used Naples before so when it came to the crunchline on where to go I rang NAC for advice.

They were extremely helpful from the word go in giving information and guidance for the Visa process (this process is actually a lot less hassle than it may seem from the material you read)

I did go to NAC to get my FAA tickets and managed to 4 checkrides in 5 days (ME PPL/ME IR/SE CPL/ME PPL) This was possible as I discussed my requirements and experience with their CFI beforehand.

He said that if I was up to the standard that I assessed myself that he would promise to sort out the bits from his side.

A schedule for all my flying was ready upon my arrival and adapted where necessary. I felt at all times that I was treated well with respect and never felt that they tried to 'milk' me for extra hours, au contraire, when I wanted to fly an extra sortie the afternoon before my CPL checkrides and an extra one in the twin in the morning before my ME CPL the CFI told me not to bother as I would be fine.

The aeroplanes were well used but sound and the entire operation extremely efficient.

Their rates are not the lowest you can find in Florida or the States but entirely reasonable.

I would have no hesitation at all to recommend NAC for flight training, especially since the feedback that one read from time to time about them seems to be consistently positive.

FD

[Keef]

I was one of the earlier UK visitors to Naples, and I chose it after much research and input from people on PPRuNe and elsewhere.

There were only two places in the USA that got the top rating from all the correspondents - Naples, and Flight Safety International. FSI wanted me to wear a uniform, and reckoned they'd need well over $10k to get me to the standard to pass an IR. Naples looked at my experience first (including the IMC rating) and suggested around $2,000.

Naples was an excellent experience; totally professional, aircraft well cared for - snags dealt with, not deferred - and I have no hesitation recommending them.

I didn't go to Orlando because one or two people were not happy with the experience there. That may or may not be statistically significant.

I know several others who've been to NAC since, and all were happy with the experience. Some have gone back to do further ratings.

Any help?

[Cusco]

I can echo Keef's comments as we went together a coupla years ago to NAC to do the FAA/IR.

There was plenty of PPL activity, tho' I do remember one poor Brit who was grounded for 5 days in a row (out of his 3 week stay).

He was doing his PPL and the grounding was mainly due to weather (Winds and occas rain: which of course was not a problem for IR training.) Mind you he was able to rattle off the exams in that time.

Soo pick your time of year carefully -Feb/March to June are pretty good: after that the Floida thunderstorms can spoil your day, not to mention the heat and humidity.

Whatever you do enjoy it!

And good luck.

[tonker]

Go to Canada

No visa hassles, cheap airfares(Canadian affair), really nice people, currency with the queens head on,general population don't feel the need to carry a firearm that they inevitably shoot themselves with,nice airport customs etc etc etc cheap-very cheap

To go to the US you will need a visa(6mnths), Canada has no such requirements.


good luck

[Tall_guy_in_a_152]

I've not been to either school myself, but have picked up from other threads here that the intensive training can be very hard work and tiring. Not really conducive to combining with a family holiday. It would be easier if you took care of all the ground school and exams in the UK before you went.

TG.

[simboi75]

yeah BB it does seem difficult to know where to fly. seems like there's a lot of schools to choose from? would anybody recommend just heading out there and having a look-see b4 making a choice?

[Charlie Zulu]

Hi Simboi,

The only problem I can see with going out to Florida to have a look around schools before making a choice is that you will have to return to the UK before you can start training.

You require an M1 visa to do any sort of training, even a trial lesson, out in the USA. You can't get an M1 visa until you decide upon which school. Plus you would probably be in the USA looking around the schools on a Visa Waiver Scheme. Whilst on a Visa Waiver Scheme you are not authorised to change your status to an M1 within the USA.


Bomber,

I am another one of the people who Flyin'Dutch speaks of in regards to training at Naples.

As I was very pleased with the school last year that I returned this year to add a multi rating to my certificate (yank speak for licence).

I'm also doing my ATPL groundschool with them via distance learning.

They have plenty of aeroplanes, there doesn't seem to be any availability problems and all of the planes are well maintained. Some of the fleet have moving map Garmin GPS's but most of the fleet are IFR equipped with the exception of some of the older Cessna 152s.

I would strongly suggest you either complete all of your ground exams at home before going to Florida or alternatively leave your family at home. You most probably won't have enough time for both study and family. Even those who had passed all of the exams before travelling to Florida were working very hard.

Anyway all the best!

Best wishes,

Charlie Zulu.

[another1]

hi

if you´re new to aviation ( i.e. starting with your ppl ) you always think that that school is good, because you don´t know it better .

normally i should post the whole **** about what i saw in that school, but then this posting will prolly deleted and no one is warned again.

so all i could tell you is : please don´t go there ! ( well you can still train in naples , but please not at that school )

if you would like to have some more detailed information, feel free to email me .

p.s. i did my ppl / ifr 2 years ago in naples

[Flyin'Dutch']

A1,

Should be no problems as long as you do a factual report on your experiences. After all post about positive experiences are not removed either.

Keen to hear about yours.

FD

[Arclite01]

I recently flew at Orlando Flight Training as a JAR PPL and wouldn't recommend it to new starters

[another1]

Should be no problems as long as you do a factual report on your experiences. After all post about positive experiences are not removed either.

well just lemme tell you a true story about NAC then.
one nice summer day in 2003, there was one of the good flightinstructors (not sure about his name maybe david, but he is native british and now married to heather , who is (was) as well an instructor there) he was flying with a student in a warrior or a cherokee (fixed gear) ... well on the approach to RNW 5 at KAPF they LOST their gear and the instructor need to perform a belly landing with his student siting right next to him. well u might say, ok **** happen ... but within the same week he had 2 engine failures though. as i first heard that story, i was like :wtf this can´t be real ... but after a while i met david on 5th av. in a bar . he was working there behind the desk. as i walked up to him he told me that he quit working for NAC because of their behavior/treatment ´n stuff like that and gave me a little closer look to whats going on there behind :/

i flew in KAPF more or less 200 hours now ( hour building , sightseeing etc) and you all mentioned their good and "well maintained" a/c .... well .... WHAT WELL MAINTAINED A/C´s PLEASE ? they have their own maintainance ( they ´re not using london aviation´s or prime plane´s maintainance ) so basically the owner decides if a plane is good to fly or not ( doesn´t matter if the plane is airworthy or not ) believe it or not , but the only guy from their maintainance team is that one avionics guy ( forgot his name) but he seems to do a propper job there. anything else i.e. if it come to 100 h inspection ... well forget about that quick. (sad but true)

the next thing is the threatment with customers. well if you already know quite a bit about whats going on in aviation they don´t touch you . BUT if you ´re clueless they´ll suck you dry . the **** is , most foreigners go there with M1 or whatever visum , using the I20 from the school. so once you discover that they rip you off, they don´t let you change schools because they tell you : hey you little german punk, train here or get the :mad::mad::mad::mad: lost , because YOUR VISUM IS BOUND TO THIS SCHOOL. so you go , ok ...another lesson in life ...

if you try to talk to a instructor about your little problems they´ll tell you . ( because they are forced to tell you that ) : we are not allowed to discuss those things with you, talk to the management ....

about the good things :

the wellesly inn is kinda cheap during summer, cause NAC has a kinda special rate for 30 or 33 $US with them .

another good thing is the location. right on the east ramp at KAPF , a lot of parking space available ... so that really is a nice thing.

anything else about naples you can grap online through google , bu be aware of the fact that NOTHING is cheap there :)

anyway i hope this will help and will not bring up a war ... ( i think i can remember that the NAC owner was posting here under different names some month ago, but the admins got that **** sorted though :) so that´s another story ...

p.s. sorry for my bad grammar and english, but i´m just a little german punk ... ;)

[Sensible]

another 1, Can I guess that Naples is the first and only school that you have been to? I have been a customer of several both as a student and as an hour builder and can assure you that the aircraft at Naples are in the best condition that I have seen training school aircraft . The manner in which the school is run together with the relationship between the management and customers is absolutely superb in my view. I did talk to a few people who were doing their basic PPL stuff and not one had a bad word to say about the place!

Regards your story about the colapsed gear, you sure you got that info first hand? I had a look at the FAA database and there is no mention of any such incident and since Naples is a towered airport, any such incident as you mention would have been reported. There is a couple of reported instances of solo students trying to bury their gear into the runway though!

http://www2.ntsb.gov/ntsb/query.asp

[captmav]

Sensible,

Whether it is a non-towered airport or a 'towered airport' is irrelevant.

I know both the individuals (instructor and student) involved in the 'strut falling off incident', and the partial engine failure, and I know it's true...!!!!!

If someone out there wants to cover it up, well that's no business of mine, but lets not play dumb huh.!

Captmav..

[Charlie Zulu]

Sensible,

I don't believe it is as both PA28s that were online last summer were online a month ago. Although N3052B had a new registration but that was only to bring it in line with the 'AC' at the end.

warrior or a cherokee (fixed gear) ... well on the approach to RNW 5 at KAPF they LOST their gear and the instructor need to perform a belly landing with his student siting right next to him

How can one make a belly landing on a fixed gear cherokee? Now if "another1" said an Arrow with its retractable then it would be more plausible, however both of their Arrow IVs were still in the air a month of so ago.

The instructor who is now married (I believe) to Heather (who was my instructor) is Andrew, not David.

By the way Richard (the owner) posts on pprune under the schools name. Quite clear as far as I am aware.

Best wishes,

Charlie Zulu.

[another1]

bomber

no , naples wasn´t my 1st experience because i did fly in germany before . yes i agree with you that it could be much more worse than NAC especially if we are talking about the a/c conditions . but let´s stay in naples , there are some more schools at KAPF london aviation and eaa . both of them have a bunch of brand new c172 or pa28
http://www.londonhelicopters.com (http://)
http://www.eaa-fly.com

The manner in which the school is run together with the relationship between the management and customers is absolutely superb in my view.

well that´s your impression/oppinion i know by name at least 2 students who had major trouble in 2003 ( one from england and one from nigeria ) both of them switched school after a long hassle . well just to get this right here , i don´t want to harm anyone , and i don´t want to ruin their business, but i´ve spent more than 150 days in 2003 in naples and saw a lot. i saw those students sitting outside the school or hanging around at the pool while studiing at the hotel ... talking about those money issus over there at NAC ... i.e. you just finished a XC and the first thing they gave you is the bill . if you don´t pay that day they´ll skip your schedule ... anyway i really would like to help other people to make a good and SAVE decision. during my time in naples i mainly rented c172 or pa28 from other schools. so i don´t go to NAC anymore. during that time i spoke to alot of people working at KAPF ... everyone will tell you the same ! it doesn´t matter if you ask a fuel guy or in the pilot shop ... even the doctor who has his office right around their corner might know whats going on . if everyone keeps telling you things about that place during a period of 2 years , do you think that this isn´t something to be afraid about ? i mean , you guys came for 4 or 6 weeks , doin´ ppl , cpl whatever ... in your mind you´ve got those old bloody english schools over there in the UK, with outworn airplanes ´n stuff like that ... but do you really think that the way NAC is providing their service is the way it has to be ? well maybe that´s one difference between uk guys and bloody germans :)

and about that belly landing . well ask around, most of the people living and doing business out there at KAPF know that story. and it wasn´t a student trying to bury their gear into the runway . it was a dual flight and one of the main gear tires fell off in the gulf right in front of RNW 5 approach. the instructor was able to land the ship on the remaining 2nd main and front tire. i don´t know why it wasn´t reported ...maybe he departed A4 and let the wing go down on east ramp ... i really don´t know . all i know ( and that´s because i talked to that guy who flew that plane ) is that this isn´t a "story" but we´ll see , maybe we´ll find someone who is able to tell us the truth ...maybe even NAC has the balls to explain what happend ?

cheers

[[u]]

There is no english word for grundlichkeit so the expectation of 'good' of a German and a Briton can differ enormously ;)

[Ninety-Nines]

Hmmmm.......I just love it chinese whispers take effect in this forum with our 3 post wonders!

Never let the truth get in the way of a good post!

An incident happened where due to a hard landing of the previous renter that was not reported to the school leading to the following person encountering a left main gear failure.

This incident happened after the airport was closed at approx 2215. The airport authority notified Richard, Jatin (CFI) and myself who all arrived on the scene at approx 22:30.

Apart from the aircraft, there were no injuries.

No blame was placed on either the student or Instructor.

The instructor continued to work for NAC beyond this incident and continued training the student.

The instructor is currently awaiting work authorization as he is between immigration status and has withing the last 3 months spoken with the HOT in an effort to rejoin the NAC team.

As for engine failures etc. search the NTSB database - our record luckily speaks for itself. You do not need to rely on the hearsay of any one but the actual facts of the NTSB. Although I must stress, just because a school has an incident or accident it may not necessarily be a fault of the school!

May I suggest that we should all use this forum for one reason - tell the story as it is and use no fabrication or synopsis as to why things happen when the facts are not known.

Thank you, Nikki

Edit: I would like to add that my response to this post was for factual reasons and not in response to Another 1's invitation!

[Sensible]

another1,in your second post on this topic you said;the instructor was able to land the ship on the remaining 2nd main and front tire. i don´t know why it wasn´t reported ...maybe he departed A4 and let the wing go down on east ramp ... i really don´t know Now that is an instructor that I could really learn from! but then I thought you said in your first post;the instructor need to perform a belly landing Your story doesn't seem to be consistent does it? Why have the grapes turned sour in Germany this year?

[worldclassmusician]

Back from Naples Air Center about a month now. I finished my PPL(A) in 3 weeks and with no hassel whatsoever. All of the guys are really friendly and can't do enough for you. The rates are reasonable and the training is of a high standard.

Missing NAC already but will certainly go back in the future. Good luck with your flying.

[DesiPilot]

Well Another1,

One doesnt really need balls to tell the truth. Now would you be kind enough to tell everyone who you are?

Of course I will tell you about myself. My name is Jatin Gaur and if you were here in NAC you should know me.

Now to your story, the instructors name was not David. The instructors name is Andrew. Yes, he is still in Naples and to my knowledge he is not working anywhere as he doesnt have work authorisation yet (he is waiting for it since his marriage). I have spoken to him many a times with regard to his job. I know he is a great instructor and trust me the day he gets his work authorisation he will be working back with us. That brings me to another lie you mentioned in your posting, he didnt leave because he was unhappy, he stopped working after NAC was closed last year, than he got married and now he is awaiting his work authorisation. And just to clarify things, the two students you mentioned in your posting had to leave because NAC was closed. Believe me I know because I was there and I suggested to Kevin and Tady to go Europe American.

Now, we at NAC do not discriminate amongst our students, so I do not know where you get the bloody german from? The only German I remember during that time was doing his CFI's with us. I hope you are not him and if you are him, I hope you are not pissed because we said that your son needs a visa to train and both father and son ended up going to Europe American and London.

And as for the a/c maintenance, London Aviation does their own maintenance and in EAAs case, if you didnt know, the owner of Prime Planes is part owner in EAA as well. So to answer your concerns, all the three schools at Naples airport have their own maintenance.

Just to be on record here, I am not trying to defend NAC or any other school here. I have worked as a flight instructor since 1998 and I have worked as Head of Training for both Britannia Flight Centre and Naples Air Center. I love my life as much, if not more, as any other student love theirs. So I assure you the plane are very much airworthy. How can I be so sure, because I fly in those very planes myself.

Bomber,

To answer your question, do a search on the PPrune and make your decision on the facts.

Where ever you go good luck with your training and make sure you do a lot of pre course studies.

Best Wishes,
Jatin Gaur
aka DesiPilot

[Sensible]

BomberB, Personally, I'd take my business to Naples Air Centre in favour of any other Florida School. another1 's postings should be taken with a very large pinch of salt. it is clear that he/she can't even get the facts right (belly landings in a warrior - really! does this guy know an aileron from a flap?) I can understand Jatin geting upset with another 1 but posters who jump in with negative postings when their total number of postings can be counted on the fingers of one hand are very rarely credible. You will not find a better Florida school than Naples, that I can assure you. The only point that worries me about your original post is My family are considering going over so I think that OFT would be be the option for this my view is that you will be very busy doing the PPL and will not have any time for the extra pressure of giving time to your family when you are there. A PPL is not a breeze. I made the mistake of taking my wife with me when I did my PPL and that was a serious mistake because it placed far too much extra pressure on me to entertain her.

[Charlie Zulu]

"Glasgow"ClassMusician, :D

I'm missing Naples again... but not in a hurry to go back as I've got to do the ATPL exams the next time I'm there! ;) ;) :ok:

Aye, I'll probably be renting their Seminole as well after the exams to cheer myself up.

Oh by the way many thanks for the great weekend up in sunny Glasgow!! A weekend down in my homeland is on the cards... ? My flight was delayed for half an hour last night, so didn't get back home until midnight.

BomberB,

I would take seriously what Sensible writes above. A family visit to Florida is not the time for someone to obtain a PPL in a three or four week time frame at a full time school. The course is difficult and intensive enough as it is without having the family issues to sort out day to day. I would seriously leave them at home or just go to Florida for a normal family / disney holiday.

Best wishes,

Charlie Zulu.

[AndrewMcAllister]

Just thought I'd let you know that I'm sitting in the room of my flight school in LA, USA just now.

I've been at Universal Air Academy (http://www.universalairacademy.com) for 3 weeks now, and am due to take my checkride in 6 days.

From my first ever flight 22 days ago, the guys here are brilliant, like one happy family and I recommend them to anyone.

Not a bad deal for 50 hours and all your training - $3450

Enjoy your training,

Andrew

[JABI]

OK it's been a while, but could not resist jumping into this one.
Sensible, Charlie Zulu, Spitfire 747 we all know how pro NAC you are. Give it a break people it's getting a little pathetic how you jump on everybody that has not had the same "bloody wonderfull experience" you all seem to have enjoyed.
Even though Another1 may have a low number of posts that is how we all started out and does not automatically mean the post is rubbish. Low posters with absolutely "brilliant" experiences at a particular school are more suspicious. We all know who they are.
The fact that Another1's english spelling is not up to par does not mean the event did not take place. Can some of you not accept that some people have negative experiences with certain FTO's?
Let's see who the other posters are; Well Nikki is not going to badmouth her own school and will tone down any rumours that's obvious. Desipilot worked for them and being a JAA examiner (one of few in Florida) probably still has a financial interest in doing their skill-tests. No news from him either.
The NTSB database is not holy either, it has to be REPORTED to become an incident or accident.
According to my info not only the wheel came off, the whole oleo assembly departed the airframe. Being training airplanes they are subjected to "heavy" landings every single day, have not heard (or read) about too many oleo's departing the airframe.
So the heavy landing story is ambiguous at best.
The problem is not only the events that take place but also how they are dealt with. Every flight school will have technical issues at some point, inherent to the game. How they are dealt with is more important, not only for the customer (and that is what all of us are) but for employees also.
To be honest people that do pass their skill test within 3-4 weeks tend to be happy as a clamp and negative experiences tend to fade away quicker if you're the satisfied party. The story is different if YOU are the one that is having the problems.
Everybody that has been through any FTO will know a fellow student that was not happy about some part of the deal. The fact that it wasn't you does not make it less of a problem.
Students that remain longer at a FTO will get more insight into the reelings and dealings. If you're somewhere for 3 weeks and you witness one unhappy camper it's incidental , if you spent 3- 6 months somewhere and you keep witnessing things going wrong it is obviously a chronic problem.
This being an anonimous board does not mean it has to be an all out mud slinging contest but let's have the decency to hear other side of the story also without ridicule. My experiences with NAC have been have not been positive.






Now before I get shot down, the strut falling off is not a reportable accident/incident according to th FAR-AIM (US regs)
part 830

NTSB

49 CFR Part 830 - NOTIFICATION AND REPORTING OF AIRCRAFT ACCIDENTS OR INCIDENTS AND OVERDUE AIRCRAFT, AND PRESERVATION OF AIRCRAFT WRECKAGE, MAIL, CARGO, AND RECORDS

Subpart A - General

§ 830.1 APPLICABILITY:

This part contains rules pertaining to:

(a) Initial notification and later reporting of aircraft incidents and accidents and certain other occurrences in the operation of aircraft, wherever they occur, when they involve civil aircraft of the United States; when they involve certain public aircraft, as specified in this part, wherever they occur; and when they involve foreign civil aircraft where the events occur in the United States, its territories, or its possessions.



(b) Preservation of aircraft wreckage, mail, cargo, and records involving all civil and certain public aircraft accidents, as specified in this Part, in the United States and its territories or possessions.



§ 830.2 DEFINITIONS:

As used in this part the following words or phrases are defined as follows:

Aircraft accident means an occurrence associated with the operation of an aircraft which takes place between the time any person boards the aircraft with the intention of flight and all such persons have disembarked, and in which any person suffers death or serious injury, or in which the aircraft receives substantial damage

.

Civil aircraft means any aircraft other than a public aircraft.



Fatal injury means any injury which results in death within 30 days of the accident.



Incident means an occurrence other than an accident, associated with the operation of an aircraft, which affects or could affect the safety of operations.



Operator means any person who causes or authorizes the operation of an aircraft, such as the owner, lessee, or bailee of an aircraft.



Public aircraft means an aircraft used only for the United States Government, or an aircraft owned and operated (except for commercial purposes) or exclusively leased for at least 90 continuous days by a government other than the United States Government, including a State, the District of Columbia, a territory or possession of the United States, or a political subdivision of that government. Public aircraft does not include a government-owned aircraft transporting property for commercial purposes and does not include a government-owned aircraft transporting passengers other than: transporting (for other than commercial purposes) crewmembers or other persons aboard the aircraft whose presence is required to perform, or is associated with the performance of, a governmental function such as firefighting, search and rescue, law enforcement, aeronautical research, or biological or geological resource management; or transporting (for other than commercial purposes) persons aboard the aircraft if the aircraft is operated by the Armed Forces or an intelligence agency of the United States. Notwithstanding any limitation relating to use of the aircraft for commercial purposes, an aircraft shall be considered to be a public aircraft without regard to whether it is operated by a unit of government on behalf of another unit of government pursuant to a cost reimbursement agreement, if the unit of government on whose behalf the operation is conducted certifies to the Administrator of the Federal Aviation Administration that the operation was necessary to respond to a significant and imminent threat to life or property (including natural resources) and that no service by a private operator was reasonably available to meet the threat.



Serious injury means any injury which: (1) requires hospitalization for more than 48 hours, commencing within 7 days from the date the injury was received; (2) results in a fracture of any bone (except simple fractures of fingers, toes, or nose); (3) causes severe hemorrhages, nerve, muscle, or tendon damage; (4) involves any internal organ; or (5) involves second or third degree burns, or any burns affecting more than 5 percent of the body surface.



Substantial damage means damage or failure which adversely affects the structural strength, performance, or flight characteristics of the aircraft, and which would normally require major repair or replacement of the affected component. Engine failure or damage limited to an engine if only one engine fails or is damaged, bent fairings or cowling, dented skin, small punctured holes in the skin or fabric, ground damage to rotor or propeller blades, and damage to landing gear, wheels, tires, flaps, engine accessories, brakes, or wingtips are not considered substantial damage for the purpose of this part.





Subpart B - Initial Notification of Aircraft Accidents, Incidents, and Overdue Aircraft

§ 830.5 IMMEDIATE NOTIFICATION

The operator of any civil aircraft, or any public aircraft not operated by the Armed Forces or an intelligence agency of the United States, or any foreign aircraft shall immediately, and by the most expeditious means available, notify the nearest National Transportation Safety Board (Board) field office \\1\\ when:

(a) An aircraft accident or any of the following listed incidents occur:

(1) Flight control system malfunction or failure;

(2) Inability of any required flight crewmember to perform normal flight duties as a result of injury or illness;

(3) Failure of structural components of a turbine engine excluding compressor and turbine blades and vanes;

(4) In-flight fire; or

(5) Aircraft collide in flight.

(6) Damage to property, other than the aircraft, estimated to exceed $25,000 for repair (including materials and labor) or fair market value in the event of total loss, whichever is less.

(7) For large multiengine aircraft (more than 12,500 pounds maximum takeoff weight);

(i) In-flight failure of electrical systems which requires the sustained use of an emergency bus powered by a backup source such as a battery, auxiliary power unit, or air driven generator to retain flight control or essential instruments;

(ii) In-flight failure of hydraulic systems that results in sustained reliance on the sole remaining hydraulic or mechanical system for movement of flight control surfaces;

(iii) Sustained loss of the power or thrust produced by two or more engines; and

(iv) An evacuation of an aircraft in which an emergency egress system is utilized.

(b) An aircraft is overdue and is believed to have been involved in an accident.



\\1\\ The Board field offices are listed under U.S. Government in the telephone directories of the following cities: Anchorage, AK, Atlanta, GA, West Chicago, IL, Denver, CO, Arlington, TX, Gardena (Los Angeles), CA, Miami, FL, Parsippany, NJ (metropolitan New York, NY), Seattle, WA, and Washington, DC.





§ 830.6 INFORMATION TO BE GIVEN IN NOTIFICATION.

The notification required in Sec. 830.5 shall contain the following information, if available:

(a) Type, nationality, and registration marks of the aircraft;

(b) Name of owner, and operator of the aircraft;

(c) Name of the pilot in command;

(d) Date and time of the accident;

(e) Last point of departure and point of intended landing of the aircraft;

(f) Position of the aircraft with reference to some easily defined geographical point;

(g) Number of persons aboard, number killed, and number seriously injured;

(h) Nature of the accident, the weather and the extent of damage to the aircraft, so far as is known; and

(i) A description of any explosives, radioactive materials, or other dangerous articles carried.



Subpart C - Preservation of Aircraft Wreckage, Mail, Cargo, and Records

§ 830.10 PRESERVATION OF AIRCRAFT WRECKAGE, MAIL, CARGO, AND RECORDS

(a) The operator of an aircraft involved in an accident or incident for which notification must be given is responsible for preserving to the extent possible any aircraft wreckage, cargo, and mail aboard the aircraft, and all records, including all recording mediums of flight, maintenance, and voice recorders, pertaining to the operation and maintenance of the aircraft and to the airmen until the Board takes custody thereof or a release is granted pursuant to Sec. 831.12(b) of this chapter.

(b) Prior to the time the Board or its authorized representative takes custody of aircraft wreckage, mail, or cargo, such wreckage, mail, or cargo may not be disturbed or moved except to the extent necessary:

(1) To remove persons injured or trapped;

(2) To protect the wreckage from further damage; or

(3) To protect the public from injury.

(c) Where it is necessary to move aircraft wreckage, mail, or cargo, sketches, descriptive notes, and photographs shall be made, if possible, of the original positions and condition of the wreckage and any significant impact marks.

(d) The operator of an aircraft involved in an accident or incident shall retain all records, reports, internal documents, and memoranda dealing with the accident or incident, until authorized by the Board to the contrary.

[Pinga]

This being an anonimous board does not mean it has to be an all out mud slinging contest but let's have the decency to hear other side of the story also without ridicule. My experiences with NAC have been have not been positive.

JABI were your experiences with NAC as a student? or perhaps an ex employee? Would you be prepared to reveal your true identity to Danny, the owner of this site? Maybe he should ask anyway. He may be surprised! Would you care to disclose your other PPRuNe identity?

So many questions. How many answers JABI? ;)

[Ninety-Nines]

Jabi - or whatever your name is this afternoon!


In response to your post:

Let's see who the other posters are; Well Nikki is not going to badmouth her own school and will tone down any rumours that's obvious.

Wrong - I am going to correct statements that are made in error.

Desipilot worked for them and being a JAA examiner (one of few in Florida) probably still has a financial interest in doing their skill-tests.

Now I will correct you again - Jatin is currently working for NAC so the worked that you mention in in error. Jatin is also the JAA PPL Examiner and the only examiner unless he is on holiday, so he has no "financial interests" as he does them all!

The NTSB database is not holy either, it has to be REPORTED to become an incident or accident.
:rolleyes:

According to my info not only the wheel came off, the whole oleo assembly departed the airframe. Being training airplanes they are subjected to "heavy" landings every single day, have not heard (or read) about too many oleo's departing the airframe.

So being a qualified airplane mechanic, are you then blaming the student and Instructor! I fear that like a great many you are not qualified to judge this incident as:
a. you are not a mechanic
b. you were not there
c. you did not see the aircraft
d. your arguments do not make sense unless the:
a. mechanic broke the wheel on purpose before the 70 or so hours of continuous flying that the aircraft had made prior to the incident
b. you flew the aircraft directly before the incident and will not admit to your bad landing :E
c. the pilot/instructor must have seen that the wheel was to fall off but still went ahead and flew anyway!:ok:

The problem is not only the events that take place but also how they are dealt with. Every flight school will have technical issues at some point, inherent to the game. How they are dealt with is more important, not only for the customer (and that is what all of us are) but for employees also.

Probably the only thing that you have said that is true and not slanted! Probably put in so you are the good guy!

As for the posters that you refer to - they are the loyal customers of NAC that we treasure - they return to NAC because they achieved their goals and hopefully enjoyed the experience.

So JABI, you know who I am.............the question is, who are you!

Have a great night in Orlando

Nikki

[likair]

Thanks for your info habcer

Has anybody done an FAA PPL/CPL-IR-ME and converted to JAA at NAC?

Thanks

[spitfire747]

Y A W N .......... :mad: :mad: :mad: :mad:

JABI..care to name yourself..... (I think we all know... :cool:

ANOTHER1.. go on put us out of our misery who are you..
(were you that guy who went down to NAC at 5am to put your towel on the seat of the warrior..)

[Pinga]

JABI..care to name yourself..... (I think we all know... But he still thinks that we don't know who he is! People with an axe to grind make it very obvious to others who they are. I guess he is still in denial.

[BRL]

..........and some people are letting others use their same computer :suspect:

I was tempted to close this as there are some posters posting under various names with the same IP but I won't for now, I will see how it goes over the next few days.

If this bickering continues, it will be locked/binned or whatever. It has potential to help others in the same situation as the thread starter hence why I am leaving it and giving it a chance.

As soon as I get more than 5 min's to myself I will be looking into this more to suss out who-is-who and stamp down on the sniping. :suspect:

'If anyone wants to discuss it further, PM me........'

[Flyin'Dutch']

People using an alias is fine. That is what is generally accepted on here since this is a rumour network.

People posting on here under multiple aliases are may be a tad weird, especially if they by doing so are trying to push a point across.

FD

[BRL]

Absolutely agree with you 100% there Frank. There is a bit of a problem with multiple-id's and the trouble that inevitably comes with that kind of thing at the moment.

[Pinga]

BRL. That doesn't get to address the situation where posters have the benefit of a network of computers at home :uhoh:
and those who have the benefit of access to more than one computer at their workplace or home/workplace



It is your username and your password that you are responsible for. It is your responsibility. If someone posts under your name on a network/home/workplace then it is still you responsible for what is written. The buck will always stop with you if something libelous comes up. It will be up to you to prove if someone else has used your user name and password. If you want to discuss it, PM me, lets not go off track here please. :)
Brl.

[MikeJeff]

Well to go back to the quiestion my experience of NAC was almost faultless! Visa was sorted in 9 days! Aircraft were on a par with any UK maintained aircraft. Well worn, but very comfortable and in 40 hours (2 of us doing IMC) we had a 1 incident with a dicky radio.. not bad at all if you ask me!

The instructors were all very friendly and extremely competent. My instructor had in fact being flying for less time than be (albeit with more hours!) and I learnt a lot from him. If you go there, you'll get what you want out of them.

My only two watchouts (wouldn't really call them critisims)

1) Like with any UK school, one can be pushed around and left out if you don't put your foot down. We had to push hard to get our stuff done in 10 days, if we hadn't pushed and had left it to them despite our initial request we'd have gone home a few hours short.

2) Richard, like everyone else there, is a really great guy BUT the man loves money! I mean REALLY loves the stuff. He's like a Puerto Rican Arkwright from Open All hours. After he shakes your hand and says hi then "It's time to put a little something on account", rest assured if your account is clear you won't make it from the door to the nearest seat without get a request for money! The only sour point for we was the $500 deposit. It isn't made clear that this money is not part of your flying account. So you need to budget more... I also didn't get mine back for 6 weeks. When I rang he told me, "we have a huge backlog i'm sure it's near the top of the pile". I got a call back an hour later, "my pure conincidence Bea did it just this morning!". Now i didn't believe that for once second!

BUT I'd go back there in a flash! in fact I will go back there in a flash.. The whole thing was fantastic, even if I did need to go on another holiday to get over the hard work!!

[Keygrip]

With comments like Have a great night in Orlando from Nikki - and the ones from Spitty and Pinga, I'm becoming more and more of the opinion that you guys are all incorrectly assuming JABI to be a pseudonym of mine.

I've already written to Nikki to point out her error (if this IS the case) and to also point out that I do not post under any other name.

Far from what you people (including Danny) may actually think, or want to believe, I would point out that I do not think you will find any unprovoked attack from me against NAC for the last twelve months.

Indeed, from the dozens and dozens of telephone calls that I get from people looking for USA flight training advice, I've actually suggested to a few of them that they go to NAC (if it really was in their best interest).

So, Pinga and Spitty - let's approach this another way. You both claim to think that you know - so, go ahead, say who you think it is.

I bet your wrong.

[Pinga]

Keygrip; Why ever do you think that anyone is pointing at you? You are a holy and respected moderater after all and certainly would not be involved in anything so underhand would you?

Do you know who JABI is then?

Something in your last post is causing concern to me;I do not think you will find any unprovoked attack from me against NAC for the last twelve months. Why ever would you want to make "unprovoked attacks" at all?

So many unanswered questions :confused:

[BRL]

..............and all this can be continued by PM....