Diversion charges

[Wee Weasley Welshman]

So there I am yesterday returning to home base only to find a very active electrical storm overhead the airfield. Deciding it unsafe to approach I divert to one of two local airfields. Airfield A (13 miles) lies in the apparant future path of the CB. Airfield B (18 miles) is well clear of the system. After 5 minutes debate and getting a warning from airfield A that they have a class one thunderstorm warning in place I elect to divert to airfield B.

Upon landing I telephone home base to be told in a sarcastic tone that it was a stupid place to divert to because they charge landing fees in such cases. It was further explained that this mistake would cost me out of my own pocket i.e. I would have to pay the landing fee of ten pounds. The boss man intoned that airfield A was the right place to divert because they didn't charge.

Now, we have no SOP's for such diversions therefore it seems to me to be up to the captain of the aircraft to make a decision as to where to go.

I am in a quandry on how to fight this. One the one hand I taught the student all the way there and back and demo'd a join at an unfamiliar airfield etc. Therefore he got real value out of it and he should pay for the landing fee. On the other hand this kind of thing happens and surely the flying school should cover this cost.

What do you think?

Of course its a real stinker to impose personal financial penalties on instructors for making sound airmanship judgements but thats the world I live in.

And of course airfield B is a bit shark like in charging landing fees for forced diversions.

Safe Flying, WWW

[DB6]

I don't get it. Are you saying that your boss has told you to pay the landing fee rather than your student? If so are things getting personal after the strobe light incident? Might be time to move on, old fruit, depending on the balance of the old 'accruing hours vs. putting up with crap' equation. Interested to know where the airfield in question was, by the way. Does it have a big green and white airship hangar by any chance?
Cheers DB6

[This message has been edited by DB6 (edited 18 August 1999).]

[climbs like a dog]

Time to find a new school methinks. Normally the student would have paid the landing fee. Wasn't this an option in this case? Most students are quite happy to do so as they regard it as a valuable, and practical, lesson.

It would seem that some flying school owners put their instructors in extremely awkward positions for the sake of a little money.

[GulfStreamV]

WWW,

Sounds like this boss of yours is an absolute ogre! -

I know the homeland is very close to your heart, but it may be time to move further afield. The mentality of this person is beyond me, it appears that he is nothing more than a big bully!

[MaxAOB]

Concurr with above comments. I'd tell him to stick it (in a polite sort of way). Surely he has passed the Human Factors exam and is aware of CRM, ..-. --- I think is the way ahead mate! :)

[Charlie Foxtrot India]

That sux.
I thought that landings from real weather diversions were exempt from landing fees? Have you tried contacting the operator of the one you diverted to? Could be interesting. Put your case to them, see if they exempt you, and then see if your employer still charges you, and if he does you have some more fraud on your hands.
Sorry to hear you are having a bad time with this job.

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[climbs like a dog]

CFI

There has been an "airfields not charging for genuine diversions" campaign over here details on UK AOPA's web site at:
http://www.aopa.co.uk/press/july_em_div.htm

So far 70+ have said yes but some refuse (notably MOD and BAA airfields). It sounds like WWW went into one of the airfields who like their money too much.

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Get there eventually

[This message has been edited by climbs like a dog (edited 18 August 1999).]

[GulfStreamV]

As I understood it, they were for "Emergency Situations" Ie Rough running engine, low oil pressure whatever...not because you cant get to the airfield due to bad weather? - Because surely they will take the view of the AIP that the flight can be made safely and a weather briefing obtained...etc rightly or wrongly.

[climbs like a dog]

Agreed. Although it does depend on the circumstances of the day. There may be a compelling and genuine reason to divert because of adverse weather. I think the main worry is that people will use the concession frivolously and although we don't know the exact circumstances of the day in question it certainly didn't sound like an unwarranted diversion.

Maybe the airfield used for the diversion might listen to a case as per CFI's post. Perhaps they will take the view that it was just a normal factor for the day, in which case the student should have paid.


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Get there eventually

[BEagle]

So. not content with his possibly fraudulent behaviour concerning the wing strobes, your employer now wishes to put a price upon the safety of human life. Where is this wretched place? I suppose that I could plot radii of 13 and 18 miles around all Welsh aerodromes and look for the points of intersection to establish your base aerodrome (which operates Terrorhawks), but a public warning - suitably couched in legalese 'allegedly' remarks - might be appropriate in these hallowed pages! How dare your employer be so crass!!!

[Tinstaafl]

Your employer seems like a (expletive deleted). Since he isn't playing fair with you I don't see why you should play fair with him.

What are the possibilities of shifting camp to to another school - along with with your students? If not geographically, then administratively ie operate under another flying school licence but on your current aerodrome?

Don't really know what the UK rules are on this but it would give the appropriate message to your current employer.

But get out of there regardless.

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Don't mess with the red switches.

[Wee Weasley Welshman]

The implication was that I had to cover the cost as the student pays a one up fee for the course in advance and this was an unplanned expenditure. I was more miffed with the sarcastic tone after I had made my fist ever 'real' diversion and dutifully phoned in.

I'll not pay it and as the student will need extra hours I will press for it to appear on that bill. The student will not mind.

The airfield in question is Halfpenny Green just West of Birmingham. I am suprised thatthey charge like they do. I got a nearby RAF base to telephone them to inform them of my imminent arrival. I did not require parking for more than an hour, nor fuel or other facilities. The police unit let me use their phone to call base. I departed after they were closed. Easy money for them I reckon and not condusive to safety.

I think that a fast moving thunderstorm moving overhead your home airfield makes for a genuine emergency diversion in a light aircraft. With one hours fuel safe remaining etc.

I would not wish to give an overly negative iew of my school. I am busy, the aircraft (fairly) safe and the CFI and fellow instructors are a good and professional bunch. I am booked onto an IR in 7 weeks and if I land a non-instructional job soon after then its not really worth me moving on to pastures new.

Safe flying,

WWW

[BEagle]

So, WWW, does your base aerodrome have a single 830m runway orientated 04/22??

[DB6]

Thought it might be there, WWW. You'd have thought with all the money they make from the landing fees that they'd at least clean the airship hangar so you can see it from a decent distance, eh?

[Wee Weasley Welshman]

BEagle - thats the place.

DB6 - I agree. The lads in the Police Support Unit there were a great bunch though.

[DB6]

It's not a bad place all in all actually. A bit too busy at times, maybe. I've only ever flown from there rather than to, but I get the impression they're a bit keen on the old folding stuff, and I seem to recall some letters in Pilot magazine a month or two ago on this very subject, so you're not alone.
Cheers DB6

[Snigs]

If it's any consolation, I know the area reasonably well, and I'd have done exactly the same thing and flown away from the path of a storm - that's what good airmanship is all about!

I hope that when you get the pleasure of telling the man to stuff it, that you'll relay the event to all of us PPRuNers so we can rejoice with you.

I see mike oscar has made it to the halls of fame! ;)

[CHICKENTRAINER]

Weasley, I'm afraid to say you are being used and abused. Regretably, if you do leave another wannabe will jump in to fill your shoes.

Having said that, I think one must have pride and it would seem that you are currently experiencing the "thin end" of the proverbial wedge, it will probably get worse. Time to move on.

Having enjoyed your posts and learned much from you, I wish you well and trust you will find an employer who recognises your talent.
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ChickenTrainer




[This message has been edited by CHICKENTRAINER (edited 21 August 1999).]

[Wee Weasley Welshman]

Thank you everyone.

A resignation letter is currently in draft form and will probably be delivered in the next few weeks.

However, I don't believe in unnecessary confrontation and will seek to leave on good terms.

WWW

[Shanwick Shanwick]

WWW

Pay the tenner then when he's not looking cause a few hundred quids worth of paint damage to his car with your key!

It'll cost you the £10 but you'll feel much better!

[Wee Weasley Welshman]

Hmmm. Not really my temprament. Thanks for the suggestion though.

WWW

[Wee Weasley Welshman]

Besides - I had already considered the far classier option of mounting a covert operation one night to crawl underneath the vehicle with a 5 gallon pan and remove his sump plus. After draining all the warm oil out of the engine I would quietly remove the pan, replace the plug and cover all evidence of the action. Upon cold starting in the morning about 2000 pounds worth of engine damage would occur in the first 2 seconds.

Its a trick a mechanic told me about once. Wouldn't you sound stupid at the garage "Whaddya mean there's no oil in it?!?!".

WWW

[BEagle]

WWW - I'm sure that you're just joking about considering causing criminal damage, aren't you? Much more satisfying to have his business go down the pan after being boycotted following your revelations in these hallowed pages. Have you thought about writing an expose for 'CHIRP' or 'GASIL'? Then any other instances of such employee harrassment might get flushed out into the open. Name 'em and shame 'em, I reckon!! But that's all too easy for me to say as I don't have to put up with the stress that your management (HUH!!) is causing you. A little word dropped into the right ears about the maintenance standards of the aircraft might work as well - does anyone know whether the Belgrano inmates have a right to carry out snap inspections or spot checks?

[Wee Weasley Welshman]

Criminal things aren't my scene at all.

Actually the fundamental engineering is to a high standard and I have no real complaints about it. If anything were actually overtly dangerous then I wouldn't be flying - rest assured.

WWW

[PA38]

Hi WWW sorry to hear of your plight, but when I was learning to fly I had to divert to Sleap because of WX.
The owner of the aircraft (known to both of us) not only praised the action but came by road to collect the instructor and myself, all without a moan.
In fact he praised the enlightend and prompt action, thats why we are still very good friends and I use his aircraft.
So all the best I am sure there must be a Welsh way of dealing with this tight fisted penny pinching prat, I do know him so I can relate to your situation.

All the best

PA38

[Wee Weasley Welshman]

Shifts uneasily in his seat as the Boss's bestest old mate joins the fray!!!!


WWW

[capt beeky]

WWW

Sad that your boss has shown his true colours. I haven't worked there, but the stories I have heard over the last 4 years doesn't inspire me to believe he will ever change. Harlech TV had it right methinks.

[PA38]

I am sure my friend would be on your side totally, after some of the tales he told me.......

If all else fails I went to the Accrington school of subversion, and do know one or two interesting people!!

Can't wait for the next installmant from the Faulty towers of aviation..

PA38

[This message has been edited by PA38 (edited 24 August 1999).]

[Daifly]

Those of us who've worked with him know what he's like WWW - don't take any stick from him.
I though Halfpenny were free for WX diversions?

[This message has been edited by Daifly (edited 26 August 1999).]