Instructor Shortage

[Wee Weasley Welshman]

It seems to me that my school would hire 3 new instructors were they available. It also seems that most other schools are looking to recruit given the number of sly job offers I have recieved.

Now if JAA is just about to strangle any more people trying to hours build/self improve surely this shortage is going to hit crisis level after this season? Just where is my replacement coming from?

GA training is facing a holocaust unless I am badly mistaken. Next season you are not going to be able to get a PPL for love nor money.

Have I missread the situation????


WWW

[Captain Airclues]

WWW

<<Have I missread the situation????>>

No!

Airclues

[britavia]

maybe CAA/JAA might have to relax the regs to allow instructors from other countries to instruct in their airspace?

[GulfStreamV]

WWW,

I think you're spot on!

If you just look back say 12-18months ago, within the mags Pilot,Flyer etc you would be hard pushed to find anybody advertising FI posts. However, take a look at this months Pilot and there are at least half a dozen. It also seems they are thinking more about the package and incentives being offered - Rates of Pay - Company Car - Cheap Rental - Part Time / Full Time / Any Time!.

The future looks good for the Career instructor, although additional costs to achieve under JAR.

GulfStreamV

[Wee Weasley Welshman]

I see that in the latest Pilot today that Euroair are offering 20 pound sper hour for PPL instructors. Remarkable. WWW

[ILSNDBVOR]

This situation has been foreseen by those of us who have been in the industry for some length of time. Forget JAA, the reasons are much more simple than that. The main reason there is currently an instructor shortage, and to a greater extent 509 instructors, is the ease of which 'youngsters' can get a licence these days and pick up an airline job. Just a few short years ago anyone starting out in avaition would serve an 'apprenticeship' as an AFI, then qualify as an FI and continue to build their experience and more importantly their airmanship. These days they pop over to the USA, getting dubious standards of training and undertaking pointless hours building exercises. It means that in a few years time every new f/o with the airlines will have a few hundred hours and no 'nouse' for real flying, and no experience of having to make real decisions unaided by having an experienced captain beside them. BA are on record as wanting 'managers' and not pilots, unfortunetly it looks like they are going to get what they desire.

I truly believe that the ONLY way for our young men and women to enter the professional world of avaition is through the instructor route. I only write this article because there are some on this forum who think they know it all after spending a couple of weeks in Florida hour building and then doing an up-grade course and landing in the right seat of a jet, they have no 'airmanship', I highlight that word so the instructors reading this know what I mean, because those young f/o's will not have a clue.

Before some loud mouth has a go at me (again), I have been down that route, I gave up the airlines to try to put something back into an industry I love, but sometimes I despair, I honestly think we are getting the wrong type of person into flying these days.

So, instructors, stand tall, be proud, after all, without you, none of these whippersnappers would be where they are now, I only wish they could see that for themselves.

I have been very busy of late, as you will no doubt be aware, there are many wannabees out there trying their hand at the IRT, I will try to contribute more, but I will not if I again get shouted down for protecting the UK flying industry, this after all was started as a UK forum, why people want to shout me down for protecting our own industry bemuses me somewhat.

Tally ho, Bournmouth is losing its appeal...

[This message has been edited by ILSNDBVOR (edited 23 July 1999).]

[Oktas8]

If you opened up QFI positions to Aust/NZ licensed flight instructors, you would have more job applicants than you could poke a stick at. http://www.pprune.org/ubb/NonCGI/redface.gif

Oh dear - but then how would you protect airline positions for young up-and-coming local pilots? http://www.pprune.org/ubb/NonCGI/frown.gif

Guess it'll be the status quo for a while yet then... (Not that it's any different here!) ;)

regards to all those earning 20 pounds per hour,
O8 :)

[This message has been edited by Oktas8 (edited 24 July 1999).]

[Wee Weasley Welshman]

Thanks for that ILSNDBVOR. I am preparing for my Multi/IR course (non-approved) in 9 weeks time. ANYTHING you can contribute that helps me vault this somewhat daunting hurdle would be wolfishly consumed and appreciated. WWW

[Cessnaboy]

O8,

If I could exchange my NZ CPL & instructors rating to a UK equivalent then I would be there in in a shot. With a right to abode, everyone says "..get over to the UK" but to get where I am now I have fully loaned myself to the devil and his wife. I have enquired about converting, even getting my logbook assessed, but it would cost me the same again to convert to the BCPL/AFI and thats not possible. But if they opened it up to qualified intructor pilots then they would have no probs getting people.

Cessnaboy
(sigh with jealous regret at 100+hrs p/mth while struggling to get 15!)

[Oktas8]

Cessnaboy,
Yes - that's actually what I meant.

I'm doing a C Cat in Palmy at the moment. Happily I'll probably get some kind of aviation related work afterwards, but I would still be over to UK like a shot if I could.

15 hrs/mth? You're doing well - I struggle for 10!

regards
Piperboy (alias Oktas8)

[DB6]

WWW, get hold of David Hoy's book 'Instrument Flying' - it is the best one I have read on the subject and deals with the UK not FAA IR. Also the RANT (Radio Aids Navigation Tutor) software is invaluable - BAe and Oxford issue it as part of the course - get hold of that and practice the old NDB hold joins, calculating wind correction angles etc. and all the other procedural stuff it contains. Also become as conversant as possible with instrument approach plates (Aerad used at Prestwick - depends what your school will use) since being able to extract the relevant information from them at a glance with your hands full is a very useful talent. Don't think the multi course should give you too many problems, although it helps if you have experience of retractable gear and CS props, leaving you to concentrate fully on the asymmetric aspects.
Cheers, DB6

[This message has been edited by DB6 (edited 27 July 1999).]

[Wee Weasley Welshman]

Got the book - haven't got the software. Now where's that credit card... WWW

ps thanks.

[GulfStreamV]

WWW,

Can recommend the software, also take a look at the PPL IR Network web site http://vweb1.hiway.co.uk/aviation/pplir/
quite a good piece of text from an IR CAAFU examiner.

Good Luck!

[Wee Weasley Welshman]

Thank you. Very interesting. Much obliged. WWW

[BuGsMaShErDrIvEr]

Does anyone know who'd do a conversion from an Aussie CPL/Instructors to the UK equivalent? A ball park estimate of the cost would also be helpful. Right to live and work in the UK shouldn't be a problem.
Thanks in advance.

[Cessnaboy]

O8,
Scratch the 15, I'm down to none!!

School I was working for was sold and the exisiting staff, bar 1, were not part of the deal.

I've come to realise that being a C-Cat instructor, under supervision and trained by another organisation is the worst flying disease out.

Good luck for the test.

Nothingboy (formerly Cessna*sniff*boy)

[autobrakemedium]

ILSNDBVOR

Having done a CPL/IR upgrade and then instructed and now on the A320, I think that I am well placed to reply to your remarks.


You can have people who are self improvers who are excellent and some who are not. And the same applies to 509ers and upgraders.

The sooner the airlines realise this rather than preferring 509ers or self improvers, and took each individual on their own merits the better.


[This message has been edited by autobrakemedium (edited 30 July 1999).]

[This message has been edited by Charlie Foxtrot India (edited 03 August 1999).]

[ILSNDBVOR]

.

[This message has been edited by Charlie Foxtrot India (edited 03 August 1999).]

[tip path plane]

Could someone please tell me the minimum hour required to become a helicopter flight instructor in the uk..not looking for a job just curious..its 400 over here..also what about stiff wing. thanks all

[ILSNDBVOR]

I think it is also 400 here old son. As for real aeroplanes you need a BCPL/CPL that is the minimum.

[Charlie Foxtrot India]

This is an interesting and important thread.
Sadly the type of slanging we have seen on other forums has spread onto this one, which is inapropriate and will be deleted when I can remember how...I've not had this problem on this forum before.

Now, back to instructor shortages....

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[ILSNDBVOR]

CFI, your ability as a moderator is I am afraid called into question. I note that you deleted my entire retort to someone who was 'slanging' me, but you left his original post intact! Sorry, but your 'editing' is misguided, I suggest you re-read the offending response from 'autobrakemedium', your apology should be posted on here for all to see. I am most angry at your handling of this situation, which is plain to most that I am not the offending party, but the offended party.

[Wee Weasley Welshman]

Come on Girls - stop hair pulling. We're all friends really.

Notice SFT are adverising in this weeks Flight as is a school in West Wales (handy for me that!) and I have been approached by two other schools offering me work.

This in the week that I was almost (I joke not) sacked for smashing the wing tip strobe light whist teaching a new student to taxi. It wouldn't of hurt so much had the strobes not been u/s for the last 6 months! Had to count to ten about that one I can tell you!

WWW

[juswonnafly]

Hi Guys, I have only just joined, what a brill site!

I have BCPL and am soon to do CPL/IR upgrade, however I am wondering wether or not
to do AFI instead.

Is it possible to earn a living instructing? I hear so many different stories

[This message has been edited by juswonnafly (edited 04 August 1999).]

[This message has been edited by juswonnafly (edited 04 August 1999).]

[Charlie Foxtrot India]

This forum was not intended as a place for people to trade personal remarks and attempt to ridicule others. Feel free to email me with any constructive criticism!

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[skyvan]

Potentially silly question, probably should be in Wannabes, but since the topic is instructor shortage, here goes...
Would it be possible for a reasonably experienced pilot from the colonies, with about 600hrs instruction time, come across to the UK (born there, so off the high horses) and get a job as an instructor while studying for the ATPL exams, and still survive on the income?
I can already convert my ATPL to a UK CPL, according to CAP54, but would the flying schools employ someone like me that they know would leave within six months?
Thanks in advance for any reasoned replies, even from 3aids, should you deign to answer!
skyvan

[ILSNDBVOR]

CFI, I agree completely with you, your apology?

Skyvan, thank you for inviting me to reply to your request for information. Sure yiu can convert your colonial ATPL to our CPL, but you will be required to sit the technical exams, and pass the GFT. You will then have to pay the licence issue fees etc. You will get a UK instructor rating on the strength of your overseas one, after a test of course, the UK is the only first world country I know of that recognises overseas instructors, so there are good points in our system. It maybe worth considering for you as the technical exams are quite a bit simplier than the navs. You should be able to pick up an AFI position here, it all depends on whether you consider it worth it as they are usually rather poorly paid. Maybe WWW can point you in the direction of a decent flying school to approach, he appears to have his finger on the pulse of UK schools.

[Wee Weasley Welshman]

Hey - you got the the license I got the job offers, with your experience I know people who'll bite your arm off - even in winter. WWW

ps but you don't want to come and work in my sharkpit - I'd walk tomorrow if I didn't live next door.

[Tinstaafl]

I'm also quite curious about the current market in the UK for instructor &/or pilot positions and what I'd have to do about converting my Oz instructor rating to the equivalent here in the UK.

Basically I have about 2300 hrs instructing from ab-initio, PPL, CPL & M/E IFR + some other bits like aero's & theory. Any idea on what hoops I'd have to jump through & chance of a (possibly) temporary position?

BTW, I'm already in the licence conversion process so that's not an issue(unless these bloody exams become a problem!). Information welcome.

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Don't mess with the red switches.

[skyvan]

3 aids and WWW
Thanks for the replies, truly Pprune is made by gentlemen such as yourselves.
One last qestion, what can an instructor expect to earn, either as a part-timer, or in a full-time post?
Thanks in advance.

[Wee Weasley Welshman]

A common rate is 10 pounds per hour the hobbs meter is ticking plus a retainer of say 250 pounds per month. Hours depends on the school, weather, location etc but as the shortage grows the numbers wanting to get trained remains unabated...

WWW

[Charlie Foxtrot India]

Great thread, and good to know that there are opportunities for instructors back in the old country. (A nice change from when I left in '93!) I hope the laws of supply and demand will mean that pay and conditions should improve accordingly.
This thread is being closed due to length, to be continued.


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