PA46 Malibu crosswind "limit"

[bookworm]

A recent AAIB bulletin (http://www.dft.gov.uk/stellent/groups/dft_avsafety/documents/page/dft_avsafety_029553.hcsp) quotes the Malibu as having:

"a demonstrated crosswind limit of 17 kt"

There a world of difference between a crosswind limit and a maximum demonstrated crosswind component which is not limiting. Thus I believe the AAIB might be doing the pilot in question a disservice by confusing the two.

But I don't have access to a PA46 POH. So does it really have a crosswind limit?

[Final 3 Greens]

Bookworm

I haven't looked at a PA46 POH, but 17kts sounds very adjacent to the demonstrated crosswind component of 17kts on the PA28/32/34 etc

[niknak]

The pilot landed on runway 26 , at 0726, estimating a surface wind of 200deg 20 gusting 30kts.

The metar issued at 0720 gave a surface wind of 200 21kts gusting 31kts.

I wonder if his insurance covered this sort of wind component? :rolleyes:

[bookworm]

That's precisely the issue niknak. Most insurance policies require the aircraft to be operated within the limitations set out in the POH. The maximum demonstrated crosswind component is not limiting, yet the AAIB has phrased this in such a way that suggests that the pilot was willfully exceeding a limitation.

[Final 3 Greens]

Bookworm

If the insurance company uses the POH as the arbiter of the facts, then there should be no problem?

If the report is incorrect, comparison of the two willm ake that quite clear.

[2Donkeys]

At the worst, this is sloppy wording on the part of the AAIB. This particular form of words is often incorrectly used to describe the "Demonstrated Crosswind" of an aircraft; you'll find many examples on Pprune.

Perhaps the only impuning of this pilot (and others who operated this aircraft) is that there is the implication that the Malibu had regularly been handled in a ham-fisted way, and landing in the conditions described might be seen as evidence to support that view.

2D

[jerseymilkman]

17 knots is the 'maximum demonstrated crosswind component' for the Malibu.

[bookworm]

17 knots is the 'maximum demonstrated crosswind component' for the Malibu.

Thanks. And is there a specific annotation to the effect that this is not to be considered limiting, as I know there is in some POHs?

If the report is incorrect, comparison of the two will make that quite clear.

True, but if I were involved in an incident or accident that was recorded by the AAIB in a way that suggested that I willfully exceeded the limitations of the aircraft, I would want them to set the record straight! And if the AAIB does believe that this is a limitation, their misapprehension needs to be corrected.

[jerseymilkman]

Out of interest - if landing on r/w 26, with a southerly crosswind of 20 - 30 knots, the aircraft would actually veer to the left, not the right, after landing...??? Unless of course, when you put in rudder for wing down, cross control landing you manage to have your right foot slightly depressing the brake...

The incident seems to be being passed off as a maintenance issue in any event...

My understanding of crosswind demonstrations are the demonstrated crosswind using NO crosswind technique... which is one of the reasons they are not limiting.

Have not got the POH to hand so cannot give you anything more on this...

JM